High-Tech RepoMan 452
PlayfullyClever writes "A new gizmo is upping the odds that even the most hard-knock customer will come up with the car payment. Hooked into the ignition system, the gadget comes in a handful of versions with one common conclusion:
No pay, no start.
It's worked wonders at Norfolk's Patriot Auto Sales, where nearly every car that drives off the lot is outfitted with a PayTeck Smart Box, a system that hands over a five-digit code in exchange for each payment. Come due date, the car won't crank until the customer punches the code into a palm-size keypad wired into the dash.
I would think this "Smart Box" would get hacked way too easily, leaving car companies without their money."
I wouldn't buy a car with this system (Score:2)
Of course, with my good credit and automatic payments, I'm not likely to get behind on payments, such that the system might cost more than it's worth. I hope the keypad can be used for other things as well.
For somebody with shady credit, though, it might be an option, though like what was stated, it'd probably be pretty easy to bypass if you know what you're doing.
You would buy it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:You would buy it (Score:2)
Well if you have good credit, you won't (Score:3)
Re:I wouldn't buy a car with this system (Score:2)
I'm not familiar with instances where a GPS-equipped tracking device was required, but in the case of the "monthly activation" and breathalyzer, I don't see where any assumption at all is being made. The breathalyzer is sometimes a requirement imposed as part of a sentence for someone who has been repeatedly convicted of DUI. Likewise, this device is something that's required of someone who ha
Re:I wouldn't buy a car with this system (Score:3, Insightful)
You don't ask rich people to help you fix your car. Rich people who can fix cars are called "mechanics" and "shop owners", and won't help you for a twelve pack. Poor people fix their own cars, or junk 'em and buy another one for $300.
Now, bad with credit != poor, but bad with credit != stupid, either. And poor != stupid as well. But most people I know who are handy with a wrench fall below the poverty line.
Re:I wouldn't buy a car with this system (Score:2)
Basically, as a matter of necessity. When your car breaks down, and you can't afford to pay a mechanic, you have two choices: Fix it yourself, or walk.
Re:I wouldn't buy a car with this system (Score:2)
dealer A buys car at auction for $2000.00
dealer A details car and sell for $5,000.00
buyer A gets car and pays $1000.00 before he defaults
dealer B buys car at repo auction for $2,000.00
buyer A own creditor $2000.00 ($5k - $1K -$2K = $2K)
dealer B details car and sell for $5,000.00
buyer B gets car and pays $1000.00 before he defaults
dealer A buys car at repo auction for $2,000.00
buyer B own creditor $2000.00 ($5k - $1K -$2K = $2K)
( a $2K car ha
Hmmm.... (Score:5, Informative)
From TFA:
"Buyers sign forms acknowledging the Smart Box, agreeing not to tamper with it and promising to return to the dealership for a free removal after the last payment is made."
That implies that screwing with it in any way will get you into trouble if you get caught. That's not to say that somebody won't try, but it also implies that they have a means of catching you.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:3, Interesting)
You can break through a window and unlock the front door of my house from the inside easily enough, but that doesn't mean that putting installing a deadbolt was a bad or worthless idea.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:2)
This is not the reason that you have to make the payment... if you don't the Repo-man will come and get it. This just makes it much less likely that the repo-man would have to be called.
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:2)
Speaking of the legalese, I bet there's a whole bunch of weasel words saying they're not responsible for what happens if they don't get the code on time to the customer and Bad Things happen as a consequence. So what are the pro's to buying from this joint? Is this on of the 25% interest car places for people with bad credit (which make
Re:Hmmm.... (Score:2)
There are several competing systems like this (Score:5, Informative)
Sure a saavy mechanic can find the ignition lock out and disable it, but its in the contract that people sign at purchase that they will not disturb it, and is a felony to tamper with it (at least in Tennessee).
He's had a few folks defeat it and stop making payments, but eventually something happens to get the car repo'd and the customer in hot water. He says he's lost a very tiny percentage of the hundreds of cars he's outfitted with the ignition lock out.
--
We don't NEED no stinkin' sig
Re:There are several competing systems like this (Score:2)
Yet another example of the government being in the pockets of corporations.
Re:There are several competing systems like this (Score:3)
Re:There are several competing systems like this (Score:4, Insightful)
Now I take it you're not poor at the moment. I'm not poor at the moment. I'm in college, as it happens. If I walk around campus on a Friday (or even Thursday or Wednesday these days) night, what do I see? Hundreds of spoiled rich frat boys partying it up and basically trashing the campus area, leaving garbage all over the place, vandalizing property (I've had the side mirrors kicked off my car, and someone attempted to steal my bike, which was locked to itself because there was no space in the rack; this attempt apparently led to the lock getting stuck in the spokes, hopefully throwing the would-be thief painfully to the ground). When I arrive at class, these people walk in and talk through the lecture about how they're going to spend the evening at bar crawls, or how they need to restore the prestige of their fraternity by increasing the level of hazing (I literally heard this conversation directly behind me in an engineering class, it was surreal). They pass their classes because they have files at the frat of old homework assignments that they copy. They get their college degree and get well-paying jobs, even if they slacked their way through; nobody cares because the jobs don't really require much intelligence anyway. They might get promoted into management through some kind of good-old-boy-ish network that they're in because they have a college degree and fit into the culture (where "the culture" == "yay conspicuous consumption" + "yay to sexism and classism with a subtle hint of racism sometimes" + "yay manipulative personalities and objectification"). These kids are quite rich; they wear the latest fashionable clothing and clearly they aren't paying a cent towards their education (if they were they wouldn't have time for all the barcrawls and hazing).
What I said is not true of everyone in any particular situation; there are plenty of good people with money, there are plenty of good people in the Greek system. But if a lot of poor people deserve to be poor, then there are also a lot of rich people that deserve it just as much. They're just lucky enough to have their future well-being handed to them no matter how much they choose to screw around.
Bad logic (Score:2, Insightful)
Not really. It just means that they would fall back on the existing system, that is, physical repossession. In other words, it's no worse than the current system (from their perspective), and might encourage the non-hackers (eg almost everyone) to pay up.
Slight improvement (Score:3, Insightful)
Wow! (Score:3, Funny)
Repossession is not a joke (Score:5, Insightful)
It isn't even like loan companies send out the repo man after your first failure to pay. You typically get several months of haggling and pleading before the loan company has no other alternative but to send someone out to repossess the automobile. And the repo man is frequently in danger from people who don't have enough money to pay the loan companies but usually enough to buy bullets.
Using a technical measure to disable cars, making them useless to the owner, is a great idea. It works with drunk drivers and car thieves. Just kill the engine and the car isn't going anywhere. The loan company can then repossess the car at their leisure, along with adding extra pressure on the defaulting "owner" to pay.
The real bottom line is not to over-extend your finances. Try to buy large items like cars with cash. The worst monetary investment you can make is to take out a loan to pay for a car you can't afford.
Re:Repossession is not a joke (Score:5, Insightful)
Repo men, whatever you think about their profession, risk their lives daily in order to prevent auto theft, which in a way is what failing to pay car payments is.
Why is it everyone has to turn every crime that involves property into theft? If you fail to make house payments have you "stolen" the house? I have no problem with repo men and reposession in general, but failing to make payments isn't theft. Don't try to make repo men into some sort of heroes. They're nothing more than contract enforcers.
Re:Repossession is not a joke (Score:2)
So if I walk out the store without paying for the xbox, is that theft?
If I agree to pay $100 now, $300 later, then walk out the store with the xbox and disappear, is that not theft?
What's the difference, that I'm holding the xbox? You're forgetting the other 1/10th of the law.
Re:Repossession is not a joke (Score:2)
Re:Repossession is not a joke (Score:2)
Not a Harvard Law grad I see (Score:4, Informative)
You need to brush up on your secured credit law bucko. A car loan comes with a security interest in the car. The car belongs to the customer. In no way is failing to pay the loan back "theft," it is default on a loan or, at most, fraud if the person entered into the contract with scienter. It is no more theft than failing to pay one's credit card bill.
The holder of a security interest (the car lender, here) has the right to "self help" in the event of default to satisfy the debt. (He also has the right to proceeds if the owner sells the car to someone else.) This is a difference from "unsecured credit," the best example being a credit card. No matter how much money someone owes on a credit card, the repo man can't come to his house and take some stuff to settle the debt.
In other words, I would bet you five hundred dollars you could not find a single court case where someone was convicted of "theft" for failing to make his car payments. I'm glad you're a fan of the repo man, honorable work, blah blah blah, but like most slashdot posters you don't know much about the law.
Smart Contracts (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Smart Contracts (Score:2)
I hope not.
If I read Lessig correctly, the problem with this is now people can enforce via mechanism provisions that the law might not allow them to enforce.
There's a reason security systems are generally not allowed to injure intruders. There's a reason we get upset at the DMCA essentially killing fair use.
Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
Yeah, worst case scenario, but a liability nonetheless. The reason this system won't be accepted is because the current system is one based on trust and legal consequences. You purchase/lease the car with the expectation that it starts whenever you want it to. Even if there is a problem with the billing system of your credit card company or bank, or with the company who maintains the payment records for your car.
They are assuming some amount of risk by letting you make your payments over a period of time and in return they tend to get more money than if you paid it all up front. That is how the system has always worked, and thats how it will continue to work because not enough people will be stupid enough to lose their end of that bargain.
Re:Problem (Score:3, Interesting)
No, more like "no liability". You think there's not something in the contract about this already? Besides, as long as it's not willful, vehicular malfunction that doesn't directly contribute to the death or injury is unlikely to result in liability regardless of contract. Would Motorola be liable for you not being able to dial 911 on your cell bec
Re:Problem (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.ppsontime.com/news/inc3.gif [ppsontime.com]
Seems this became a common practice long ago.
Re:Problem (Score:2)
Re:Problem (Score:2)
The more complicated you make something, the more likely it is to break. That's why most gun owners are against the addition of umpteen "safety" features, along with most other people wanting to keep a lot of stuff out of products. It's the real world equivalent of
Re:Problem (Score:2)
At Patriot, Madden says he's in the process of switching to a new Internet-based system that doesn't use codes. The system requires fewer staff to manage and will allow him to pick the moment when a car carrying one of his loans wont start. With one phone call, he can shut down a driver anywhere in the country for non- payment.
Re:Problem (Score:2)
Or what if the system malfunctions and your SUV full of NUNS and PARAPLEGIC CHILDREN cuts out just as you're in the middle of a LEVEL CROSSING and a TRAIN is coming?????
THINK THINGS THROUGH, PEOPLE!!!!!
Re:Problem (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah. There really ought to be a special phone number you can call to have someone pick you up and take you to the hospital if your car isn't working.
Just to make it easy to remember it should be a short one, and maybe the same in all parts of the country. I think three digits starting with '9' would probably work well.
I dont think so... (Score:2, Insightful)
Could the experienced person tinker with this and get away with the car? Perhaps. I think its a good system. Its meant to be more of a pain in the ass than anything. I know of some dealers who install GPS signals into the cars they sell to their "good cr
Re:I dont think so... (Score:2)
Most likely, it's just inline with the keyswitch. Ten minutes and a $10 cable tool and I'd have that out for you. And I'm not a mechanic.
More effective would be to engage steering
Re:I dont think so... (Score:2)
Besides, poor people don't get their car aligned. They just keep buying used tires for $15 a pop every few months. Usually only one or two tires needs replaced,
as an aside.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Er.. (Score:2, Interesting)
"I would think this 'Smart Box' would get hacked way too easily, leaving car companies exactly where they are now."
Surely it's not like this box makes it *easier* for someone to stop paying?
Michigan (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Michigan (Score:3, Interesting)
These aren't for everyone (Score:5, Insightful)
For the majority of people, you wouldn't need a system like this. Why? Because the majority of people, especially here, have reputable credit and can get a car loan, or have cash on hand to put a significant amount down.
I have a good friend who works in auto sales, and things in the used car business have become so bad, in terms of financing, that they were getting customers on the lot, essentially 'sold' them the car, and then couldn't get any banks to finance them. So what were they left doing? Financing the sale themselves.
Basically, you agree to pay the car dealership directly, instead of a bank. This puts a lot of pressure on the dealership, because instead of getting, say $12,000 upfront, in one payment from a bank, they are now getting monthly payments of $250 for the next 5 years or so. In doing this, they are really hanging their rear out, because if that customer makes two payments, and disapears off the face of the earth, that dealership has no way of tracking them, or their car, down.
That's why these systems are catching on so quickly, not as another form of 'big brother', but as an alternative for someone out there who needs a car, and can make payments, but can't get financed through a bank. This way, a dealership can move cars off their lot, and still protect their investment.
If you don't want a system like this in your car, the solution is simple, keep good credit. If you do that, then you'll be able to get bank financing, not get ripped off by a car dealership, and don't have to worry about 'big brother' in the passanger seat.
Great...what's next? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Great...what's next? (Score:2)
Re:Great...what's next? (Score:2)
Honestly. What makes you think creditors will pass ANY of this "savings" on to their other customers?
Re:Great...what's next? (Score:3, Interesting)
Great Idea (Score:2)
Re:Great Idea (Score:2)
The kinds of dealerships using these aren't going to pass along any savings in their repo costs or bad loans. But this is good technology nonetheless. It's also made possible Flexcar [flexcarnetwork.com], which is a fantastic service. I live in a major city and use them all the time. It's the same deal -- I enter a PIN in the das
Re:Great Idea (Score:2)
A problem i have is that this allows dealerships to further presure people who cannot afford to drive or own a car inot buying one. people need to live wi
Norfolk VA car dealerships (Score:5, Insightful)
The state could step up and do something about it by applying reasonable intrest rate caps like a bunch of states do.
Re:Norfolk VA car dealerships (Score:2)
You think a inspector is gonna figure out that I yanked off the oil pan and just stuck a oversize bearing on a rod that was knocking? I really doubt it...
Re:Norfolk VA car dealerships (Score:2)
I now live in a state that does not require that stupid crap and could not be happier.
What percentage of accidents are caused by faulty equipment.... I am guessing it is a extremely small percentage of overall vehicle accidents.
I submitted this years ago!!!OMFG!!! (Score:2)
As an aside, Mel Farr was run out of business by Ford after racking up close to 30 million dollars in d
Good idea, wrong use (Score:2)
Of course there are all manor of comedy alternatives you could use this idea for
Missed a mortage payment? Your door doesn't open anymore.
Didn't pay your income tax this year? Your ATM card doesn't work anymore.
And the all time #1 idea
Please enter the five digit code so your heart can beat for this month.
I Developed a Competing System--and learned... (Score:5, Informative)
A few years ago I developed a GPS-based system for tracking vehicles. Long story, but the client's original business plan didn't work--but his sales manager cottoned on to the idea of installing the units in cars at buy-here, pay-here car lots.
I bitched and moaned, and eventually dropped the client--in part because of the liability exposure, and in part because of the general sleaze. But I learned a bunch along the way.
How buy-here, pay-here car lots can do this:
It's simple: when you "purchase" a car from a buy-here, pay-here car lot, you're not buying the car. What you're doing is technically signing a "lease-purchase" contract: you're leasing the car until the final payment is made. That means the car dealer doesn't have a secured interest in the car--he OWNS the car. If you miss a payment, he picks up the car--and you have nothing.
That's dramatically different from a typical car purchase. If you buy a car from a new car dealer--or a reputable used-car lot--you will almost always finance the car. If you finance the car at the dealer (generally not a good idea) you'll sign something that looks like a loan agreement, but is technically called a Retail Installment Sales Contract (RISC). It is a contract to pay for the car over a certain period of time. The dealer then sells that contract to a bank or finance company. Key point: you are buying the car, and signing a contract to pay a loan--securing the loan with the car's title. Suppose you buy a $25,000 car, and put down $5,000 in cash and trade-in on your old car. Suppose you lose your job two weeks later, and can't pay the loan. You tell the bank--they'll be perfectly willing to take the car, liquidate the loan (by selling the car at auction), and give you the difference between what they sell the car for, and the balance on your loan.
With a lease-purchase agreement, it doesn't work that way. The car belongs to the dealer, not to you. If the dealer suckers you into putting money down, you have only the contract language (if any) to guarantee that you'll get anything back if the car is repossessed.
Buy-here, pay-here is a very bad deal
Bottom line: if your credit is so bad that you have to agree to install any kind of automated device to track you or force you to pay, you shouldn't be buying a car. First, you clearly are going to have trouble affording the car. Second, the cars the buy-here, pay-here crooks sell are typically heaps of junk: the cars left over at the auction that nobody wants to buy. A 1992 Ford with 150,000 miles on it isn't just going to require a monthly (or weekly) payment to the dealer--it's going to require a steady stream of parts and repair bills to keep rolling. Your chances of keeping that heap rolling for the two or three years of the "loan" are slim: and if the heap dies, you're still stuck paying credit card interest rates, and you don't have wheels.
Not New (Score:5, Informative)
The device is quite easy to "hack" if you would even call it that. Its just soldered to the wiring harness and can VERY easily be bypassed. Most customers don't question it because "its a little computer thingy" and its "very complex".
Apart from all that, in the contract, the customer must sign about three pages of forms made up of about 15 signatures from both buyer and co-buyer agreeing to all the terms and conditions regarding the device. Again, our customers never have a problem signing their John Hancock on the line.
About the operation of the device: Currently, the device we use utilizes a "code" system where the customer pays their payment, we give them a 9-digit code from Passtime's website. The code is only good for however many days we set it, then we can set warning days where it will beep upon starting to remind them that their payment is due, and each code has atleast two emergency days that they can use by pressing 999-999-999.
Regardless, it'd be nice if Passtime would give me the freakin' code to generate the Passtime codes so I can integrate it into my software! They protect it quite well, thankfully!
Re:Not New (Score:3, Funny)
Please let me know if they come through; I'd also like to integrate that code into my software.
Regards,
A Car Thief
Leave it to Slashdot (Score:5, Insightful)
when you get stuck (Score:2)
not for me... I am really an electronic friendly person, but when it comes to a reliable vehicle it is all but lotsa electronics
it's like if you go to siberia you want an ak47 not some spiffy hightech rambo gear from the latest installment of ghost recon or other near science fiction shooter
What's sleazy about getting paid? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, at least people with bad credit histories will be given the chance of buying to buy a car. It won't matter for those who have the money, but it just might be good for those who are poor.
Actually, it's still extortion plain and simple. There is a local "buy here, pay here" car dealer that has been using these devices for quite awhile. You would think that in exchange for getting put a device on a car that you own that they would give the people with shitty credit history a break on the interest payments. After all, isn't the theory behind charging people with lousy credit higher interest that you need to do so in order to recoup losses? Not as much room for losses with this system.
Of course it doesn't work out that way in practice. They still charge anywhere from 15%-25% on a car loan. It's legalized loan sharking that takes advantage of the most desperate among us.
I'd also point out that even if you need a loan to buy a car you still own that car outright. The only thing that the bank/financing company has in the car is a security interest. This is not the same as them owning a percentage of the car. So why the hell should they be allowed to require this?
I would encourage everybody out there to avoid the whole problem by not buying a car that you need a loan on. I have never spent more then $2,000 on a car. Sure, I spend some money in repairs -- but the year end figure doesn't come close to most car loans (which still need repairs). And driving cheap ghetto cars allows me to avoid having to pay for expensive collision coverage.
Failing that, if you must have a nice car and can't afford to buy it outright, then get the loan for your car from your credit union or local community bank. Why the hell should we be doing the auto financing companies any favors?
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Interesting)
You don't own it, the lot owns it, you're making payments and they are allowing you to drive the car. Once you pay off the loan its yours to do with as you wish, but if you fall behind on the payments, its their right to seize their property.
I'm sorry, but in virtually every sane auto contract that is not so.
If I buy a car from a dealership then I am going to get a bill of sale. I will eventually get a title from DMV that shows that I own that car. The title will also reflect the security interest of whomever gave the loan for that car (assuming I didn't buy it outright) -- but the fact remains that I own the car.
A security interest is not the same as them owning the car. The lot got paid for the car by whomever I got the loan from. It's the same theory behind a secured credit card (another typical ploy used to screw people -- WTF does a secured credit card with no risk to the issuer require massive fees and 20% interest??). The bank doesn't own the funds you deposited into the account to get the card -- they only have a security interest in them.
Now I can't speak for the contracts that you sign if you buy a car from a carshark "buy here, pay here" type guy. I'm not stupid or desperate enough to do business with one.
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
Even still, if you don't own a car outright, even from a reputable dealer, that title has a lien set against it that is callable if you ever violate your payment contract, even if the loan is with a company not related to the dealer (ie your bank/credit union).
But that lien doesn't mean that they own the property. It only means that they have an interest in the property and it may serve to restrict your rights regarding the transfer of that property. It doesn't restrict any other rights that you may ha
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Informative)
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
This device secures their interest in the property, well within their rights.
Yes, their interest in your property. Not "the property". I suppose I would be perfectly within "my rights" to remove such device from my car. The worst thing I'd be doing is breaking a civil contract -- not any laws. Unless it phones home then I don't really see what they can do about it.
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
The loan agreement more than likely has a "instant default" clause for tampering. They will still send a
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
Well yes, true. But what I'm talking about in principle is removing the kill-switch-box after finding out it disabled your ignition for non-payment. At this point, it could be argued in court with certainty you commited grand theft auto.
I don't think so. Grand theft auto is a criminal matter. Until they actually decide to repo the car it is still mine and I can do whatever the hell I want with it. What if that device broke and wouldn't let me start my car? What if I was only 30 days late and it would
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
fucking moron. yeah we all really believe that you are willing to go to jail or worse for killing a repo man. Most likely if you did anything at all it would be more big talk.. "I'm gonna sue you!", "Dont you know who I am!", "Get the fuck off my property".. etc etc.. but in the end you would still watch your vehicle get towed away.
No, but if I start the car up and drive it away there isn't a goddamn thing he can do about it. He can't pull me over. The repo man may be professionally intimidating but he
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
Doesn't matter what legal language you put on it. Doesn't matter if you legally, technically own it according to the letter
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Informative)
Dont worry folks, this
Re:What the hell (Score:2, Informative)
When you get finance from the car yard, you're actually getting it from a financial institution that the yard has an agreement with. They give the car yard the money, you get the car, and you pay the financial institution, not the car yard.
When I pick up the car, I take the ownership papers down to the government shopfront, pay the stamp duty and get the ownership transferred into my name. Nowhere does the ca
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Interesting)
Those liens are callable if you default, and since most car/land loans are secured with the property in question, it's the bank/dealer's right to seize their property if you are in default.
You are entirely correct -- but for the use of the word "their". It should have been "your".
It's also a little known fact that in virtually every state if they seize the property they have to make every attempt to sell it for maximum market value. Anything gained above the amount of money they are owed has to be turned over to the owner of the property. Of course with a car loan you are screwed because cars never gain value -- but if they seize your house and the market will pay twice what is owed on it then they have to send that excess cash to you.
Of course nobody knows this and being the nice industry that it is most people get screwed over anyway by the credit sharks.
You know, it's very easy to slam someone for not being able to pay their bills. But why don't you take a look at the credit industry sometime before sticking up for them. A lot of them are bloodsucking motherfuckers that pray on people.
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Interesting)
Big time. They started coming down hard on these fly by night organizations in the Norfolk/Virginia Beach area several years ago. These scumbag dealers would sell cars knowing full well that the customers would default on the loans, then repo the cars and put them back
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
You're missing the point, and stating an oxymoron in the process.
Those liens are callable if you default. They are probably secured with the car in question.
It's the bank/dealer's right to seize your secured property, the car in question, if you default on the loan.
If they still own it, it's a lease to own progr
Re:What the hell (Score:2, Informative)
Once you pay for it.
> I'd also point out that even if you need a loan to buy a car you still own that car outright.
Once you pay for it.
> So why the hell should they be allowed to require this?
Because they just let you drive off with a $3000 car after forking over $250.
> I would encourage everybody out there to avoid the whole problem by not buying a car that you need a loan on.
I would encourage everybody out ther
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
On behalf of those of us who have to pay inflated insurance rates to cover your accidents, eat cock and die.
I'm sure your just trolling and you are dead wrong about the ownership issue, but I'd like to hear you explain to me exactly why the fact that I don't carry collision on my car would inflate your insurance rates.
Collision covers damage to my car if I'm in an accident that was my fault. If I'm in an accident with you and it's my fault then my insurance company is going to pay for the damages to yo
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
This is something that allows car salesmen (slimey in even the nicest of dealerships) to sell cars to people that hav
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
You can do whatever you'd like to your car, as long as you do not violate the loan terms contract governing the security interest in the car. Most of those stipulate insurance coverages and limits as one of those terms. It is still perfectly legal for me to cut the roof off the car, weld a c
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Interesting)
Remember when your math teacher in Junior High said, "you will use this stuff everyday?" Well, for you and I he was right. We use those lessons every day of the year to decide whether or not we can afford a certain purchase, or whether or not the terms on a certain line of credit are worth accepting. The average person that goes into a "Buy Here Pay Here" car lot failed to comprehend the importance of basic algrebra, and they will pay for the lack all of
Re:What the hell-"/." lawyers. (Score:4, Insightful)
You can point till the cows come home. Legally your still wrong.
Umm, bullshit. Do you not know what a Lien [wikipedia.org] is? To quote: "In U.S. law, lien is the broadest term for any sort of charge or encumbrance against an item of property that secures the payment of a debt or performance of some other obligation."
A lien tells somebody who might be looking to buy your property that somebody else has a security interest in it. This does not mean that you don't own the property. It will probably prevent you from transferring ownership of that property until that lien is satisfied but it does not change the fact that you own that property yourself.
In fact, even if the property is transferred the lien will usually survive and the new owner has to deal with it. A good example would be a house that was seized by the government for taxes that still had a mortgage against it. If you buy that house at government auction you are going to have to come to terms with the bank that holds the lien against it.
Re:What the hell-"/." lawyers. (Score:3, Informative)
It's a little hard to find but I did find this [state.ny.us] on the NYSDMV page.
To quote: "Before you accept the title certificate from the seller, check the front of the title for the names and addresses of lien holders. A lien indicates the current owner owes money on a loan for the vehicle. If a lien is listed on the title, ask the seller to give you the proof the lien has been paid - in most cases, it will be an official lien release from the lender. If proof is not provided, the lien holder could repossess the vehi
Re:What the hell (Score:3, Insightful)
y definition, someone with bad credit has bad credit *because* they tried to screw a creditor by not making payments on time
That's a bit of a leap. I know a fair share of people (my own sad life story included) that have bad credit because of events beyond their control. Try medical bills for starters. Try unemployment. Try the death of a working spouse who didn't have enough life insurance. Take any number of scenarios that could result in falling behind on bills without purposefully trying to "scr
Re:What the hell (Score:5, Informative)
Did you RTFA? (Score:2)
Think about why you have credit so bad that the only way you can get a car is with one of these boxes.
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
This is kind of like why they rais taxes on beer and cigarettes. It only pisses off a quarter of the population and usualy the same quarter that doesn't make a big impact. Even if these people are upset and voice an opinion about it, everyone else still looks the other way and thinks as long as it doesn't effect them. Soon poor people or people with hardshipsor (whatever cau
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
However, if you don't like it, *and* your credit is so bad that nobody else will give you a loan, you might have to become familiar with the bus routes... guess you should have paid more attention in high school civics class when they were talking about your credit rating!
Re:What the hell (Score:2)
Re:The lawsuits on this one are frightning! (Score:2)
This is about people with bad credit.
And its nothing new. Its already done commonly in the high-risk loan industry.
If you have good credit, you'll never own a car with one. But when you get to a point where you've got a 25% interest rate on your car, and you have the option of a lien on your house, or one of these...
My sister is in high-risk loans. Her bank took someones house for defaulting on a car loan once. That guy, I'd bet, would tell you
Re:Who would hack this? (Score:2)
Treating bad credit as bad credit (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Buy Here, Pay Here places suck. (Score:2)