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Technology Science

Rat Brains Fly Planes 345

Posted by ScuttleMonkey from the bummer-of-a-support-job dept.
An anonymous reader writes "According to The Age newspaper, scientists at the University of Florida have created neural cell cultures capable of flying an airplane using rat neurons. No actual planes are involved (yet), but the disassembled bits of rodent are already capable of level flight when hooked up to a simulator of an F-22."
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Rat Brains Fly Planes More

Rat Brains Fly Planes

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  • Just What We Need (Score:5, Funny)

    by susano_otter ( 123650 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:48PM (#14198300) Homepage
    A rat that can smart-bomb your rat-trap.

  • Think of the possibilities (Score:3, Funny)

    by Scarblac ( 122480 ) <slashdot@gerlich.nl> on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:48PM (#14198302) Homepage

    Rodent brains may seem small, but think of where we can go if we can ramp this technology... One day we may have humans flying planes!

  • Good lord no! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Raul654 ( 453029 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:49PM (#14198309) Homepage
    Given this news, I can only imagine what the next round of layoffs at American Airlines will bring...

  • But can a rat brain post dupe stories? (Score:5, Informative)

    by __aagctu1952 ( 768423 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:49PM (#14198314)
    What do you know - it's a triple! [slashdot.org]

    At least it's 2 months old this time and not still on the main page...

  • Training (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 920714 ( 920714 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:49PM (#14198315) Journal
    All they said was that they hooked it up to electrodes and a computer to train the brain cells to fly the plane in simulator. Is this basically the same as training an artificial neural network or is there some more complicated biological factors involved than the just shocking the cells when they veer off course?

    • Re:Training (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Dash_Rantic ( 647004 )
      Yeah, I'd really like to know how they "train" these neurons to fly. How do they know what to do, how do they know how to control the plane? Also, when they do badly, how do you punish them? Give 'em a shock? Since it's nothing more than a simplistic brain, I don't see how that would do anything. When they do well, how are they rewarded? Toss in a bit more Nutra-Grow into their formula?

      • Re:Training (Score:2, Insightful)

        by ClickOnThis ( 137803 )
        Yeah, I'd really like to know how they "train" these neurons to fly.

        That's what intrigued me too. In fact, what seems fascinating about this research isn't so much how to get bio-neural nets to fly planes, but how one can get them to do anything at all.

        This could also start a whole new branch of the debate about the ethical treatment of animals. For example, most people might accept the ethics of learning how rat brains work in order to help people with brain damage or to advance some other issue of publi

    • Re:Training (Score:5, Informative)

      by TheOtherShoe ( 714516 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @08:28PM (#14198931) Homepage
      There is some more information about how they trained the brain cells in this article: http://www.worldhealth.net/p/394,6110.html [worldhealth.net]. From the article,

      But how do the neurons learn how to fly the thing? That's done by electrical pulses into the dish through one of the electrodes. That in effect tells the neurons when they are doing the right thing to keep the plane on course. High frequency, or rapid pulses, stimulate the neurons and enhance the connections between them.

      Simply put, by stimulating the neurons the researchers tell them they're on the right track, so they continue to adjust the plane's elevator to keep it from plunging toward the ground during a downdraft, for example. When the plane levels off, the simulator reduces the frequency of the pulses, and the neurons back off from that control surface, allowing the plane to remain on course.

      After just a few minutes of that kind of training, the "brain" takes over completely, sending signals to the plane's control surfaces, and using feedback from the simulator to know just which signals to send.

      As I understand it, one or more of the electrodes function as correctness feedback for the brain cells. These electrodes become more active when the simulated plane is flying level and in the right direction. More activation in these electrodes causes more activation among the brain cells, and when activation is higher the brain cells form stronger connections. So when the brain cells are doing what they are supposed to their behavior is reinforced.

  • Next step... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by AxemRed ( 755470 )
    Ultra-intelligent spam filters. //yay!

    • Re:Next step... (Score:2, Funny)

      by Seumas ( 6865 )
      This is my favorite post of the week. Awesome.

      Seriously, can you imagine a beowolf cluster of rat-brains applying various complex filtering techniques? Then you just have to figure some way to give them ESP so they can communicate off-network with each other to share new spam-info with each other.

      I mean, either that or secretly plot how to take over the world.

    • Re:Next step... (Score:5, Funny)

      by vertinox ( 846076 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @07:20PM (#14198540)
      Ultra-intelligent spam filters. //yay!

      Hrm... You've given me an idea for an expiriment. I'll put a keyboard in a mouse cage with a full view of my monitor:

      If he jumps on the delete key and deletes a spam message, he'll get a peice of cheese.
      If he deletes a legitimate peice of email, he will get an electric shock.
      If he hits ctrl+alt+del, I'll be using him as tech support.

  • Exploiting poorly designed editors (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Michalson ( 638911 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:53PM (#14198350)
    Now people aren't even bothering to camouflage it when they troll Slashdot by taking advantage of the laughable editorial standards.

    Todays date: Dec 6, 2005
    Article date: Dec 6/7, 2004 (7 in the text, 6 in the URL)

    So, I'm guessing we'll be seeing a few dupes of this (though I'm sure it was on Slashdot last year too, so technically it's already a dupe), followed up by someone fooling the editors into posting a blatent advertisement or an update on the number of FireFox downloads.

  • My computer ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by kitzilla ( 266382 ) <paperfrog&gmail,com> on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:55PM (#14198371) Homepage Journal
    ... already has a mouse. Next story?

  • Unfinished Quote (Score:3, Funny)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:56PM (#14198377) Homepage
    the disassembled bits of rodent are already capable of level flight when hooked up to a simulator of an F-22
    ...right into the ground.
  • "When we first hooked them up, the plane 'crashed' all the time," Dr DeMarse said. "But over time, the neural network slowly adapts as the brain learns to control the pitch and roll of the aircraft. After a while, it produces a nice straight and level trajectory."

    Straight into a mountainside?

    I am sorry, but I do not want to be on a plane and suddenly hear a tone and, "Hello, this is your neural cluster speaking."

  • My thoughts (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:58PM (#14198390)
    I think it's significant that they chose a flight simulator instead of a more traditional "game" to teach the newly formed brain.

    Here's a couple of points to remember:

    The difference between the makeup, function, and behavior of a given type of cells between one species and another is so insignificant (remember, we're talking on a cellular level) that they can generally be ignored. You can almost always assume that a given cell type in one organism will behave identically to a parallel cell in another. The species that the cell came from is all but insignificant.

    Brain cells, (in humans and in other species) are amazingly versatile. While capable of specializing (vision centers, speech centers, etc.), these cells seem to be capable of taking on any function necessary for the benefit of the organism. For example, humans brains in which a specific part has been damaged (such as the vision center) have actually re-mapped other cell groups to take over that function. They do what they have to to survive.

    Brain cells are cooperative in nature: if placed in proximity to eachother, they'll work together for their common good (read: survival). They'll "instinctively" form a structure similar to how they're pre-designed to work. They'll form a brain--as fully functional as the situation permits. It doesn't necessarily matter how you arrange them, the brain cells can sort those details out--somehow.

    Brains look for order. We've known that for ages. Finding order is how a brain learns, it's how the brain separates relevant details from the background noise. The ability to identify order is the whole basis of intelligence. Every sense, every stimulus, every aspect of the brain has order-seeking overtones. This feature of brains is so absolutely universal that it must be deeply ingrained into the neurons themselves.

    Put those details together, and you end up with the following scenario: if you take neurons out of an organism and place them together, they'll form a brain. Probably not as complex or capable a brain as you started with, but a brain none the less. Actually this is the ideal brain to study, as you're starting "from scratch": there's no evolutionary specialization involved. Each cell will attempt to make sense of its neighbors, and as a result, the organism as a whole will attempt to make sense of its environment (brain processes are the ultimate in emergent algorithms). The brain will follow this behavior as if it were necessary to the brain's survival.

    Which brings us to the flight simulator. If you instead had the brain play with a chessboard or a clock, the results would probably be unimpressive. But a flight simulator--that's really the perfect environment. There's the potential for the brain to actually order its environment: there are equilibrium points that the brain will eventually find where it has greater control over its inputs. Assuming that flying too hight or too low creates a more chaotic state, you can likely expect the brain to learn to avoid it.

    In fact, I'd be very much surprised if you didn't actually see the brain cells start to specialize. Some cells will become responsibe for directly manipulating the flight controls based on the inputs from the brain. Some will attempt to maintain aircraft equilibrium in absence of any other input from the brain. Others will control the aircraft as a whole, their location in the network giving them a better overall picture of the situation than, say, the cells near the controls. Furthermore, I fully expect some cells to not participate at all: cells that are "out of the loop", so to speak, will proably cease most activity to avoid disturbing the overall process.

    I, personally, have been waiting to see this very experiment conducted and see the results. I think this is very exciting science
    • Brains look for order. We've known that for ages. Finding order is how a brain learns, it's how the brain separates relevant details from the background noise. The ability to identify order is the whole basis of intelligence. Every sense, every stimulus, every aspect of the brain has order-seeking overtones. This feature of brains is so absolutely universal that it must be deeply ingrained into the neurons themselves.

      Would you speculate that brains are the universes counter balance to Entropy [wikipedia.org]?

      That the unive

    • Re:My thoughts (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Quirk ( 36086 )
      You wrote:

      The difference between the makeup, function, and behavior of a given type of cells between one species and another is so insignificant (remember, we're talking on a cellular level) that they can generally be ignored. You can almost always assume that a given cell type in one organism will behave identically to a parallel cell in another. The species that the cell came from is all but insignificant.

      Further you wrote:

      Brains look for order.

      Is it more productive to say brains filter out noise and

  • ah, Cordwainer Smith comes alive.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by elmegil ( 12001 ) * on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @06:59PM (#14198403) Homepage Journal
    Mother Hitton's Littul Kittons are next.
    • Now all we need is a method to freeze-dry and reconstitute a human being.

      Somewhere, Paul Linebarger is smiling in his grave. For all that his sci-fi seemed so surreal and not too heavy on the hard science, it might just prove a little more prophetic than we thought.

      Scanners live in vain

  • Distracted? (Score:3, Funny)

    by autophile ( 640621 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @07:00PM (#14198409)
    "Alpha Charlie one niner coming around to two seven niner. Setting altitude to thirty two thousand. Alpha Charlie -- oh, look, a bit of apple!"

    --Rob

  • While it's true that an F-22 Raptor is a different bird to the docile Cessnas and Pipers that I trained on, for most planes "straight and level" is the default.

    Like when you let the steering wheel go in a car (DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME!) your wheels castor so that the car stays straight ahead (and in most cars, slightly away from the oncoming traffic).

    If the rat brain could land a plane in a crosswind - then I'd be impressed!
    • for ALL planes, falling to the ground is the default.

      In th article the muntion ptich and roll. So they are talking about some kind of control.

  • What could possibly go wrong? (Score:5, Informative)

    by teneighty ( 671401 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @07:01PM (#14198421)

    Great. Not only are they immortal [slashdot.org] and fearless [slashdot.org] - now they can fly fighter jets too.

    What could possibly go wrong?

  • Whoa... (Score:2, Informative)

    by highwaytohell ( 621667 )
    This isnt news, John Travolta has been flying planes for years...

  • the new hit (Score:2, Funny)

    by DarkClown ( 7673 )
    Ratty Brainee Flee Planee
    1! 2! 3! 4!
    Ratty Brainee Flee Planee
    1! 2! 3! 4!

    Rodent wants a black helicopter
    Hover the sticky paper
    Raiding the larder

    Ratty Brainee Flee Planee
    1! 2! 3! 4!

    I want be one
    You want to have some
    With little a 'dungee
    They've gone past the bungee

    Ratty Brainee Flee Planee
    1! 2! 3! 4!
  • did you read the article at newscientist.com about rats singing (actually mice, but the author claims that his rat was a diva)....i get it in print, but it's now online - at newscientst, search for the article "romantic rodents"..."Tim Holy and Zhongsheng Guo of Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis, Missouri, recorded the vocalisations of male mice when they were presented with female pheromones and found they were far more complex than expected." and of course, rats are much more complicat
  • ...all this time we've been worried about sentient, super-intelligent machines taking over the world.

    What if it turns out that sentient but really, really stupid machines are a greater threat to humankind?

    Time to call James Cameron. I can see it now: "Terminator 4: Whoops, Wrong Button"!

  • How about... (Score:5, Funny)

    by eyepeepackets ( 33477 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @07:06PM (#14198458)
    ...a culture of rat brain cells which can detect year-old dupes on /. Now that would be both news _and_ considerable progress over the current method, which is most likely a culture of Cowboy Neal's brain cells in dire need of a vacation, a blonde and a bottle of diet Coke.

  • I want my neural-integrated real-time WWII Shooter!

    Alright, while games would be great, just think of the possibilities of a truly human-machine integration. Your mind able to drift from place to place running on whatever hardware's free weather its you dual-processor dog, your Supercomputer Blackberry, or your tricked out, modded up home base in your skull.

    We'd need to understand the complicated nature of the brain if humanity is to continue to grow. Machines are already a vital part of many human being
  • "...the cells begin to connect to form what scientists are calling a "live computation device" (a brain)."

    I am no longer an idiot; I have an unoptimized live computation device.

  • When they can make a carrier landing at night...

  • Reminds me of book. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by scrow ( 620374 )
    I read a sci-fi book about these neural networks many years ago. It featured a computer, with a rat brain, that simulated weather changes, or something like that. It wasn't powerful enough, and the plot involved a scientist turning to a human brain and all the ramifications etc... Does anyone rememeber that book (or something like it, my memory of it is pretty fuzzy).

  • How about a cluster? (Score:3, Funny)

    by antdude ( 79039 ) on Tuesday December 06, 2005 @07:25PM (#14198575) Homepage Journal
    Maybe a cluster can fly the space shuttle?
  • I though bioneural gel packs were a joke, a science fiction fantasy, if you will. A ridiculous invention in Voyager to be ridiculed by the scientific community.

    Apparently I was wrong

    So;
    Let me be the first to say that I welcome our new bioneural gel pack overlords.
  • When you think about it, they got a neural network from a rat to fly a plane. It's just a bunch of cells, isn't it? But the rat's brain is just a bunch of these bunches, and our brain is just a bit larger. This makes me feel like a big neural network :(
  • Thank goodness for that. I simply can't abide experiments that involve cruelty to planes.

  • F-22 problem (Score:2, Interesting)

    by TheStonepedo ( 885845 )
    I'm not saying the F-22 can "fly itself" but the latest generations of fighter planes have been increasingly geared toward reducing the complexity of flight. Get these rat brains to fly twin engine propeller planes with simple/no computers and it'll be noteworthy.
  • You mean it just sits there and doesn't do anything to disturb the current course of the plane? And this is news? Level flight is easy. Just adjust the trim and don't touch anything. Then again, maybe a F-22 jet is a little different than a single prop Cessna. :-P

    -matthew
  • Does this mean a rat based Krang is possible?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krang [wikipedia.org]

  • ... pigeons and seagulls have been doing it for a long time.
  • Well I for one welcome our new stealthy, F-22 Raptor [f22fighter.com]-flying, disembodied rat-brain overlords!
  • A rat brain can fly a plaine...but a slashdot editor cannot check for dupes...yeah, sounds about right.
  • fly anywhere near cats or cheese.
  • so this technology ought to fit right in. The Pentagon can then claim it was a "rat-brain glitch" resulting in a hundred civilian deaths, not their orders.

    We already have a rat-brain running the Pentagon, so that'll go over big.
  • ...who thinks this would be a pain in the ass to debug?
  • I guess that's one way to do it... if you can't get your computer program to think like a brain, just chop off a hunk of actual brain and wire it up to your PC as an external co-processor.


    Still seems like a cop-out to me, though. Plus it means that old, discarded computers are going to start smelling a lot worse...

  • Holy.
    Fucking.
    Shit.

  • Out of the last five trips to a favorite (or used to be favorite) restaurant, the counter folks screwed my lunch up three times. Unfortunately, these were take-out orders with multiple folks' orders, so checking at the counter is incredibly inconvenient given how all orders end up in several bags.

    If these folks can't remember to include the sauce in their Asian take out lunches (nothing like plain white rice and chicken in a plastic bowl - it has a negative moisture content), but rats can fly planes, I'm

  • ...this doesn't sound like some hare-brained scheme.

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