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Microsoft Technology

Microsoft Tries To Charm EU With Future Visions 202

Posted by Zonk from the we-love-teh-future dept.
RedStar writes "BBC Online has a piece on Microsoft's visions of the future as shown to Euro MPs in a charm operation." From the article: "This is more a new concept than a new technology, and the real version may still be a year or two away. It would track the mobile phone signals of loved ones, then cross-reference which mobile cell they were in with pre-programmed locations, like the home, school, or workplace. Ms Sellen added: 'This is not very specific at all about where people are, and that's deliberate. We don't want to invade people's privacy too much, so we deliberately keep things very coarse grained.'"
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Microsoft Tries To Charm EU With Future Visions More

Microsoft Tries To Charm EU With Future Visions

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  • Mix that..... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by scenestar ( 828656 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:52PM (#14288325) Homepage Journal
    with the data retention laws and you have a totalitarian's wet dream.

    • Re:Mix that..... (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Ahhh, my husband is at his mistresses again.

  • You're misunderstanding! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by oahazmatt ( 868057 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:56PM (#14288341) Journal
    It would track the mobile phone signals of loved ones, then cross-reference which mobile cell they were in with pre-programmed locations, like the home, school, or workplace.

    We don't want to be Big Brother. We want to make the tools so you can be Big Brother!
    • Wow, and we thought we needed tin-foil hats to protect ourselves from the CIA, now we just need to protect ourselves from M$. But why use tin-foil hats when we can upload the blaster worm and kill Big Brother?
    • mobile phone signals of loved ones

      I really like that part, because Big Brother loves everyone. And everyone loves Big Brother. Straight from wikipedia:
       
      The Ministry of Love

      Newspeak: Miniluv.

      The agency responsible for the identification, monitoring, arrest, and torture of dissidents, real or imagined.

    • No dummy, its for LOVED ONES only! (Score:4, Funny)

      by kale77in ( 703316 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @10:54PM (#14288806) Homepage
      C'mon, doesn't anyone READ the announcement?

      They explicitly said the technology would track your LOVED ONES. If someone WASN'T *your* *loved* *one*, then I think the implication is very clear -- the software simply wouldn't work at all for a person like that! And surely by now they have enough other dirt on you to know if someone is your loved one or not.

      A fair go for your loved ones at M$ is all that I'm asking...
    • I'm actually torn on this one.

      The untrusting SOB that I am, I don't people invading my privacy and tracking me wherever I go.

      The Parent in my wants to be able to track where my daughter when she goes out down to the foot so I can find her if need be. (curfew, scum boyfriend, being *at* her boyfriends, being where she is not supposed to be, etc.)

      I honestly don't know which way to go with this. Maybe if we were able to turn the GPS tracking off...

      • Re:You're misunderstanding! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by AuMatar ( 183847 ) on Monday December 19, 2005 @12:20AM (#14289130)
        If you need a tool like this in order to parent, you've already failed.
        • I don't need it. I'm also not worried about failing as a parent as you so nicely put it. Parenting is about taking responsibility and being involved, not relying on technology to raise them (TV for example). My kids "hate" my wife and me already because of how strict we are with them on computer use, dating, earrings, TV usage, homework, school, etc., etc. I'm just saying...it would be nice in a "just in case" situation.
          • Don't think it was a misunderstanding.

            If your children already hate you and your wife, I only can hope you ment it ironical.

            So why do you bother what they do and whre they are?

            OTOH if you already knwo you are "so strict" why cant you relax?

            The evil guys in movies I wartched always where risen by strict parents ;D hehe.

            angel'o'sphere
        • sadly, most parents have already failed. for some parents, the analogy of the police-state is just fine for them in terms of how they run their household. it's easy to say "get involved," but the fact is that getting involved is a damn sight harder than it sounds for a disturbingly large portion of parents.

          in the face of an inability to actually communicate, what's left is oversight (which is true regardless of whether we're talking about the relationship of Big Brother to the People or of Mom and Dad to
        • If you need a tool like this in order to parent, you've already failed.

          I got the implication that he only thought it would be convenient. Because good parent or no, kids will do stupid shit. They'll do stuff they're told not to do. Occasionally, they do stuff *because* they were told not to do it. Tracking them might make it easier and quicker to find out when they are misbehaving. Not unlike how Big Brother doesn't need to track our cell phones to see if we are misbehaving, but would like to be able

        • If you need a tool like this in order to parent, you've already failed.

          Necessity != Utility

          A tool like this can allow good parents to relax the reins a little more, giving their children greater freedom because they have the ability to locate and contact them at need. For example, my 10 year-old would like permission to take the bus to a nearby ski resort and spend the day snowboarding on days off from school. My wife and I will not allow it. She's too young, it would be too easy for someone to kidn

          • In what country ddo you live that a 10 year old skiing might get kidnapped?

            In my country 10 year olds meet in winter time and do skiing, or ice hokey on the lake, or what ever.

            I guess kidnapping happens every 5 years or more rarely ... and then the one getting kidnapped is VERY VERY VERY ritch.

            angel'o'sphere
      • That's an easy one. You don't want to be spied upon, so odds are your daugther also don't want to be spied upon. End of case. If there's some real reason that you need to know where she is, how about calling her up and just asking ?

        Yes, she migth lie. But then you've got other problems anyway. Besides, if your daugther *want* to trick you there'd be nothing stopping her from leaving her phone at her best friend while herself heading somewhere else anyway.

    • Actually, this makes me think of the clock from the Harry Potter books ...
  • Ordinary people will be fed the fuzzy location, based on real data: To a few meters of precision.

    I'm so glad big brother is watching me! It's douple-plus good that I'm being watched!

  • Trust the untrusted to monitor the trusted! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ThatGeek ( 874983 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:56PM (#14288344) Homepage
    So we are going to let an untrustworthy company (Microsoft), stalk our family members (hopefully trust worthy)?

    I am happy that Microsoft has decided that they "don't want to invade people's privacy too much", just a little bit. Unfortunately, the 100000 people who hack the system the day after it comes out might not be so generous.

    Am I the only one who thinks that some pedophile is going to hack into the system and then start snatching kids?
    • hopefully the telcos will bring in some sanity (nextel btw can do this NOW with some phones) i would say 14 hour window from launch and it will be hacked next day the detials will be on rentaphsyco.net (and its mirrors) no
    • No this is just another microsoft marketing caimpagn, making it look like they have invented things which are just basically others peoples ideas dressed over i.e. trust us, buy from us, see all the nice prety things only we could have invented or can create. There was not one new or novel idea in the lot, just old ideas presented in a new way (not really a new way as microsoft has done this sort claiming of other peoples innovations as there own quite regularly in the past).

    • Am I the only one who thinks that some pedophile is going to hack into the system and then start snatching kids?

      yes

  • Love that quote... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:56PM (#14288345)
    "don't want to invade people's privacy TOO MUCH"

    Emphasis mine, of course. But that's just so telling, isn't it?

    • Re:Love that quote... (Score:5, Informative)

      by penguinoid ( 724646 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @09:11PM (#14288412) Homepage Journal
      Not to be a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist, but can't cell phone companies track you already? IIRC, it is even required for when you call 911, though they (generally) track you always, I think.
      • I'm not too familiar with the US system but over here (UK) all cellphones are authenticated with codes downloaded from a central database to the switching station which deals with transferring control between individual cells. As a result tracking which cell a cellphone is in, is trivial.
        • It's more than that. The networks can actually map roughly where you are with cells by comparing the strength of your signal to 3 or more of their masts. It's not accurate to GPS levels, especially in built up areas. But it's a lot more accurate than cell level.
      • They don't track you when you pull the battery between calls.

        • Don't be too sure.

          My kid pulled the battery out of hers to swap sims, and the thing rang (Motorola V300-something).

          Surprised her! What was even more surprising - she was able to talk for 5 minutes with the battery removed! She swears it really happened. I'm a bit skeptical, but she has no reason to lie. Strange indeed.

    • That would be telling...
      You are number six...
      Your ringtone, however, has a name - Rover!

  • I spy... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Yaa 101 ( 664725 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:57PM (#14288346) Journal
    Your blueberry will be able to get the newest criminal records of your political enemy, shame your blueberry isn't usable after the service had to be downed because of Patent infringement.

  • I get the picture, it's Microsoft *Research* (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Ithika ( 703697 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:57PM (#14288348) Homepage

    Ok, I understand, it's not ready yet. You don't have to keep telling me every two paragraphs how stuff that's in R&D won't be available to buy this Christmas. Jeez.

  • Oh (Score:3, Funny)

    by dirtsurfer ( 595452 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:57PM (#14288355) Journal
    This is not very specific at all about where people are, and that's deliberate.
    So everyone will know when you're in the bathroom, but they won't necessarily know if its number one or number two.

  • This is awesome!!!! (Score:4, Funny)

    by Freaky Spook ( 811861 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @08:59PM (#14288360)
    I cant wait to stalk my girlfriend with it.
  • So I wondering which marketing droid read Harry Potter and thought that the Weasley's clock would be cool to have.

  • Bwahahaha (Score:5, Insightful)

    by somethinghollow ( 530478 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @09:00PM (#14288366) Homepage Journal
    We don't want to invade people's privacy too much

    Yes. We want to invade their privacy just the right amount. :\
    • Hm, Timmy seems to be at "Click here to name this zone." Hey, that's where Megan was yesterday. I wonder if they're seeing each other...

  • Read that as "future versions" (Score:5, Insightful)

    by PurifyYourMind ( 776223 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @09:00PM (#14288369) Homepage
    But on a more serious note, people here might be surprised that UK people (at least those in London, if I recall correctly), aren't as worried about privacy/spying issues as you might think. London has had hundreds of cameras in its metro area to prevent crime. I think it would be a little worrying if it recorded political protests or other citizen-sensitive events. But overall I imagine there's a reduction in person-to-person crime there.

    • Re:Read that as "future versions" (Score:5, Insightful)

      by TeacherOfHeroes ( 892498 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @09:08PM (#14288393)
      Just keep in mind that theres a bit of a difference between casually observing a public environment with a camera, and trackinging you in particular where ever you go by turning your cell phone into a 24/7 tracking device.

      My question is, will cellphones start to not turn off when the cell phone is "off". Will "off" now mean "really low power mode" - just enough to keep transmitting?
      • My question is, will cellphones start to not turn off when the cell phone is "off". Will "off" now mean "really low power mode" - just enough to keep transmitting?

        They aready do just that. Modern digital cell phones send a pulse every few seconds in order to register that it's got service, that it's online, and what cell it should register in.

        The cell companies then have a helluva router system to get the text messages and calls to you when you "show up" in a particular cell.

        One of the great innovations wit
      • Yes. Just remove the battery if you really don't want to be tracked...

      • Off means a really small battery cut-out switch

        My cellphone is smart enough to turn itself back on in order for the alarm clock to function. It isn't much of a stretch to imagine that 'smart' phones can have a small bit o'software that can turn the phone on (without lighting up the screen) long enough to register at a cell, then turn the phone back off again.

        /is going to buy a tinfoil sack for his phone.

    • Camera's record everything, but unless your caught on camera doing something wrong you really don't have to worry as they can't track your identity with them yet.

      More & more information is being kept about us, its when you can start linking this information via things like Identity cards or this with mobile phone tracking that people should start to be worried.

      tracking your phone, not only gives you your location, but it also provides an individual phone number, which is access to your phone account, th
    • Hundreds of cameras? Last time I checked, London has hundreds of thousands of cameras

    • Privacy issues (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jd ( 1658 )
      Those in London had rather more to worry about, when those cameras went up. The IRA were literally driving trucks with thousand pound bombs in the back, which made a lot of people very nervous. Things have settled down somewhat since then.

      It is also important to remember that although data retention laws require information to be available for security reasons, the Data Protection Act prohibits making that information available to anyone else. In fact, most of Europe has incredibly strict privacy laws - alo

      • It is also important to remember that although data retention laws require information to be available for security reasons, the Data Protection Act prohibits making that information available to anyone else.

        Only until the first sign of a security threat. Then those protection acts become "bottlenecks to cooperation between law enforcement agencies." You'll see. And if the protection laws can't be repealed, no matter. They can always be overridden by secret presidential directives.

        • Well, for most places, anyway. It is just possible for the Queen to declare England to be in a state of Constitutional Emergency, in which case she can usurp power from the Government and lock Tony Blair in the Tower of London. Chances are, she won't, though.

          In Britain, that leaves the House of Lords, who can threaten to veto all legislation from now to eternity. Not a whole lot anyone can do to stop them, either, as they're not elected and it's next to impossible for anyone to impeach them. Still, Tony Bla

  • I bet the software is the one responsible for making the coordinates "fuzzy" by mapping a set of pretty accurate coordinates onto some predefined locations. In other words, this should be hackable to give you accurate coordinates...

  • Microsofts vision of the future (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday December 18, 2005 @09:34PM (#14288500)
    I have a pretty good idea of what Microsoft's vision of the future looks like. Something like this:
    Login Failed. Unknown Server: Samba4
    This page cannot be displayed. Please download Internet Explorer 8.
    File cannot be played. Unknown Codec: WMV4
    ERROR: This program requires a computer with a TPM chip installed.
    etc...
    Needless to say, I don't see Microsoft's vision of the future as a desirable goal.
    • Microsoft's strategy is no secret: it's called ``de-commoditizing protocols.'' According to a leaked MS memo ( http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween1.htm l [catb.org]), MS seeks to blunt OSS attacks by

      de-commoditiz[ing] protocols & applications.... OSS projects have been able to gain a foothold in many server applications because of the wide utility of highly commoditized, simple protocols. By extending these protocols and developing new protocols, we can deny OSS projects entry into the market.

      Nor is M

  • When it shows when they are in mortal danger...
  • Stop going on about pinpoint precision etc.

    Cells aren't also neatly geographically defined things either - they are regions of equal power and so this shape changes, varies in size according to density (high in city BIG in country) etc.

    Sometimes your apparent position in terms of cell can jump around hugely across bays and harbours if you come into line of sight of a particularly good tower and out from another, actually closer.

    Throw in multiple reflections (the typical way your signal gets to you) and you

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @09:41PM (#14288530)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Stuff will be sold that does what it is suppose to, and nothing else.

    No logos or labels slapped on it that make it ugly.

    Just functionality at a fair price.

    No marketer driven add-ons, subscriptions, embedded into something else, etc.

    Wait, someone is slapping me awake.

  • embrace and extend (Score:5, Informative)

    by fihzy ( 214410 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @10:12PM (#14288650)

    "This is more a new concept than a new technology, and the real version may still be a year or two away."

    Boy those Microsoft Reserchers are really innovative. I don't know how [childlocate.co.uk] they keep [followus.co.uk] managing to [followus.co.uk] come up [traceamobile.co.uk] with this [locatesomeone.co.uk] stuff

  • Gee I expected something else (Score:3, Interesting)

    by SmallFurryCreature ( 593017 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @10:18PM (#14288672) Journal
    Some of you may have heard that MS is supposed to be having some legal troubles in europe. Stuff about its current OS. So here I was expecting to read about MS proposing something to fix the problems. You know like vista with a clear seperation between components.

    Instead we get some lame gadgets. What is so special about it that this should be shown to people that are supposed to be keeping MS on a short leash?

    At best this is a non article about time wasters. At worsed(?) this is the EU being blinded by MS into giving up on its plans to call MS to order.

    For some reason I am not to thrilled either about MS research projects. The company always promises a rosy future yet never seems able to deliver. Remember what NT4 was supposed to be? Windows ME? Windows XP? Longhorn/Vista? Exactly when are we getting that damn database like filesystem?

    Oh well the MS fanboys should have a nice day.

    • Was Windows ME ever supposed to be anything but a patch-up from 98SE and an attempt to get people used to never having a real DOS mode?

      The bold vision for XP was to get the 9x users over.

      NT4, 2000 and Longhorn are all projects that at one time or another were connected to huge ideas, though. They all kind of failed. On the other hand, they are all significant improvement over their predecessors. The current WinFS beta is also a whole lot closer than they ever were before -- the gap between "this is oh so

  • For some reason, Microsoft's "visions of the future" always remind me of that Beavis and Butthead christmas episode where Beavis is talking about "the future" and it shows him and Butthead in Burger World, with Beavis as the Terminator. ROFL!
  • is probably the only reason why there isn't yet "security" demands for enabling a cellulars camera remotely. But in the meanwhile: Just imagine of all the fun they have tapping into voluntary video calls :) In all other respects than video surveillance we're way past Orwell's predictions from "1984". Chauchescu must be spinning in his grave over the lost opportunities; The poor old sod only got as far as to sample all the countrys typewriters. What an amateur. Tie the IP up to cellphones, track them and fi

  • It's not tracking *you*... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Froggy ( 92010 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @10:39PM (#14288746) Homepage
    ...it's only tracking your phone. As such, it's pretty easy to avoid "surveillance": just leave the thing behind. Of course that means people can't ring you, but if you're really worried about your privacy you maybe don't want to be connected 24/7 anyway.

    Me, I lose the damn thing all the time anyway. "Where's Mama today? Oh look, she's been dropped behind the couch again."

    • ... it's pretty easy to avoid "surveillance": just leave the thing behind.

      How about making laws that forbid the use of public services to spy on people? How much money does it cost the phone company to keep track of everyone's position? All they really need to centralize is how much you owe them, which is currently based on airtime and how far you call. Building data pipes so they can sell the information to vendors like M$ is not just invasive, it's a waste of public money. That kind of gossip should

  • that this sort of thing will happen given the speedy advances in technology, specifically wireless technologies. Our service provides will always have the ability to track this sort of information. What is MOST important is that this information is not transferred from providers to others (including government). Laws must keep up with technology, and this seems impossible with 9/11 style legislation.

    What we will need, for our protection from 1984, or probably more like 2020, is end user liscence contracts

  • Sounds like my carrier's WIS Service (Score:4, Informative)

    by 0xB00F ( 655017 ) on Sunday December 18, 2005 @11:23PM (#14288945) Homepage Journal
    This is more a new concept than a new technology, and the real version may still be a year or two away.
    It would track the mobile phone signals of loved ones, then cross-reference which mobile cell they were in with pre-programmed locations, like the home, school, or workplace.

    Sorry Microsoft, but my carrier has already been doing that for a while now: http://www.personfinder.ph/ [personfinder.ph].

    Additionally, when I was working as systems development lead for an SMS applications company, I developed a program that uses two cell sites to triangulate a phone's position based on relative signal strength. It was dropped out of development because ANTS beat us to it.

    If this is Microsoft's vision of the future, I guess it would be safe to say "The future is NOW!".

  • Future? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Masa ( 74401 ) on Monday December 19, 2005 @01:14AM (#14289313) Journal
    So, this is the future, eh? In Finland we already have had this kind of service for several years already. For example, our biggest mobile phone operator TeliaSonera has been offering a service, where you can query a location of your family members for quite a while now. All participants have to sing for the service separately and personally, so it should be relatively safe, but nonetheless it will give a power to stalk you girlfriend/wife/kids. And I have understood that this will give a location quite accurately (street address etc.).

  • Too much ? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by ultranova ( 717540 ) on Monday December 19, 2005 @03:23AM (#14289595)

    We don't want to invade people's privacy too much, so we deliberately keep things very coarse grained.

    How about you don't invade it at all ? I would really like to be able to carry my mobile phone with me without announcing to everyone who cares to ask where I go, especially since our Glorious Leaders made that little data retention law...

    • This has all been done before. There was a company in Britian that had proximity cards that all employees carried. When they walked into their office it would log them into their systems and if they happened to be in a different office the phone system was able to track them down and route their phone calls automatically to the nearest phone.

      Here in the states we have something called E-Pass, it is a transponder for your car that takes care of tolls automatically on the toll roads. They are installing

  • still true (Score:2, Insightful)

    by FudRucker ( 866063 )
    if you can not dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullsh!t...
  • How long until they add a feedback implant? Remotely "zap" someone when they to something you don't approve of. Fat husband goes into a Dunkin Donuts ... Zap! ... boyfriend goes into a porn shop ... ZAP! ... someone boots linux instead of Windows(tm)(C) ... ZZZZAAAAAAAAPPPPPP!!!!!!.

    With the historic Microsoft security, you know someone will 0WN the whole thing within a week, applying continuous DOS Zaps.

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