The New Boom 176
DarkClown writes "Wired is running a piece discussing the recovery from the burst Bubble in Silicon Valley. This time, though, it's no Bubble: it's a Boom. They suggest that this latest boom, fueled by Google's ascent, is under steadier footing than last time. Technology and the market seems to be catching up to the hype." From the article: "A boom perhaps, but not (phew!) a bubble. There's a difference. Bubbles are inflated with hot air and speculation. They end with a wet pop, leaving behind messy splatters. Booms, on the other hand, tend to have strong foundations and gentle conclusions. Bubbles can be good: They spark a huge amount of investment that can make things easier for the next generation, even as they bankrupt the current one. But booms - with their more rational allocation of capital - are better. The problem is that exuberance can make it hard to tell one from the other."
In the gutter (Score:1)
Re:In the gutter (Score:1)
Re:In the gutter (Score:2)
Re:In the gutter (Score:2)
Honestly, I'm taking a wait-and-see stance. It's true that people that have been through the last period have wisened up quite a bit. I'll wait until all the excuberance is over and reality checks in.
Re:In the gutter (Score:1)
Re:In the gutter (Score:3, Funny)
Re:In the gutter (Score:2, Informative)
Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:5, Insightful)
Infrastructure not old business model (Score:5, Insightful)
Google shares are possibly over-hyped, but they reflect a very interesting perception: that the Internet is now good for something, but that we don't know where it is going. We had the mass transit revolution (railways), the personal transit revolution (bicycles, then cars), the communications revolution (telephony.) Now we have the information revolution, and anyone who looks like they are reading meaningful signposts is likely to be highly valued.
Re:Infrastructure not old business model (Score:1)
Ah, well, when you put it that way it's obviously totally different from the bubble.
KFG
Michael Faraday and electricity (Score:3, Interesting)
Prime Minister: What use is it, Mr. Faraday?
Faraday: I know not, but I wager one day your government will tax it.
Story two:
Prime Minister: Waht use is it, Mr Faraday?
Faraday: What use is a new born baby?
Probably both urban legends (BTW I'm a former RI member, I'm allowed to say this) but they make a point.
The future is tangiable (Score:2, Insightful)
Google shares are very overhyped.
Google has done nothing that is new. They have nothing backing them. If you liquidated Google you would make back a tiny fraction of their stock worth. It is fucking asinine is what it is.
When a company that makes the world go round (IBM) stock is not even close to half the worth of a company that has no product, you know the world is fucked up.
All idols fall, and goggle will fall as well. It is the way of things. Soon another young ma
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
Yep, nobody expected Yahoo could be overthrown. Google's results are pretty heavily tainted these days, just as Yahoo's were/are.
There's room for somebody to make something better, and overnight, millions of default homepages will change.
I will say that Google is diversifying into new technologies, so I don't think they'll disappear for a long time, but they may become a has-been... like Yahoo.
BTW, Wired sucks.
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
I remember altavista when it was a subdomain of (iirc) digital.com.
I remember the web when there were no search engines, or at least none that this poor Physics undergrad knew about.
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
I remember Gopher...
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
(In fact just a couple of years ago I had the distinct pleasure of permanently removing from service a $1200 300-baud bi-synchronous modem).
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:3)
"The future is in deliverables, not data."
In some situations data is the deliverable.
How does the saying go, knowledge is the cheapest thing to acquire and the most expensive thing to buy. Some people/groups/businesses have a better model of how to exploit that fact than others, thus making money.
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
Google is overpriced though IMO, their Trailing P/E is rather high (95), but if the Forward P/E (49) is correct it is not TOO terrible.
Re:The future is tangiable (Score:2)
Re:Infrastructure not old business model (Score:2)
You mean as opposed to just hyped? I absolutely love this word to bits. It's as if mere hyperbole just isn't enough to describe Google stock and instead we have to hype up the word hype with over-exaggeration in order to capture the ultra-extremity of the situation.
Re:Infrastructure not old business model (Score:2)
Google is in the first place a search engine and it became successful because it was the fastest, just like altavista was the fastest before (iirc) etc. They may index their stuff a bit different, they may offer other services but for most people I know they are in the first place a search engine.
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
But look at what is different thus far. There isn't a myriad of companies covering every little idea, no matter how ridiculous with a blanket of wires. Instead there is a large amount of idle cash slowly being pushed into companies with existing stability and obvious growth paths.
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
If this sort of thinking doesn't scream of a bubble, I don't know what does.
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:3, Insightful)
The issue with google, to paraphrase Matt Drudge from hi radio show, is that right now some 15 year old kid in Idaho or Ohio or Beiijing or Bangalore (insert any place name) is right now working on something that will blow google out of the water, and take the market by storm.
PS- has anyone ever clicked on a google ad? I haven't.
BTW-Did anyone notice that Chipolte
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:5, Funny)
Oh, even if you don't click on them, they're still worth something to the advertiser.
For example, if I search for "poop" on google, then perhaps an ad will show up saying "Search for poop on eBay!"
Even if I don't click on the ad, I may happen to read it. This will improve eBay's brand recognition, since it will cause me to think of eBay whenever I see poop.
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
Grab.
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
Um, have you looked at that number? It's easily available on any finance site. For example: http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=goog [yahoo.com] Compare it to another major corporation of your choice and tell me Google's not overvalued.
Google, being full of mathematicians, refuses to do this, as a number is just a number.
Or, alternatively, Google, being run by forward thinking people, does not want to suffer the negative perceived consequences of initi
Re:Oh, no hot air, I see... (Score:2)
Google. Market cap: $128.12 billion.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ibm [yahoo.com]
For comparison, IBM. Market cap: $127.97 billion.
What if it's a "rush?" (Score:5, Funny)
Well, it IS a bubble. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Well, it IS a bubble. (Score:2)
Re:Well, it IS a bubble. (Score:2)
Cola Cola:
Market Cap: 99.85B and P/E: 19.36
Google:
Market Cap: 128.12B and P/E : 96.03
Nokia:
Market Cap: 77.48B and P/E : 17.36
GEN ELECTRIC CO:
Market Cap: 348.16B and P/E : 21.38
Thus for Google to earn the current market value they would take 96 years, wheas for Coca Cola it would take 19 years, Nokia 17 years and GE 21 years.
See a trend?
No credibility (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh man, they're actually stating that this bubble/boom/bulge/b???? is on steadier footing but is being fueled by Googles ascent? My, what short memories we have. If anything, the latest b???? appears to be more of an aftershock, related to it's predecessor, just to a lessor degree, but the same root causes and issues.
Re:No credibility (Score:3, Informative)
No, people are not saying there is a tech boom because of Google but because technology and engineers are now becoming important. Note:
There was NO tech boom in the late nineties and early 2000s
There was, however, a m
Re:No credibility (Score:2)
there wasn't much that was technically new in the late 90s
Ironically, you're telling us this via the internet.
The internet existed in consumer easily-accessable form around 93/94, but the 2nd half of the 90s saw 1.) an explosion of the number of people who had access to it, 2.) an explosion of the amount of content available on the internet, and 3.) a shift away from the idea that the internet was a geek toy and towards acceptance that it was a completely new venue for everyone, including businesses, govern
Re:No credibility (Score:2)
There certainly a lot more skepticism about business plans this time. Google's stock may well be overvalued, but they are making money. What's missing this time is all the startups with pure vapor concepts and the VCs who worry that they will be the ones who "don't get it." This threat of a social stigma representing missed opportunity is the new Killer Rabbit. Maybe people even know that the vast majority of internet startup investments are going to be money thrown down a hole.
Re:No credibility... shiddd (Score:2)
The last bubble was like hyperinflation of an insidious liquid. This time, it's probably going to be insidious wand-waving to "spread the love".... lots of colors and pretty floaty bubbles. Some people I talk to suggest the next boom will have to be based on REVOlutionary developments, not the same old stuff gone into slightly increased consumption.
Re:No credibility (Score:3, Insightful)
Excessive monetization has led to a remarkably widespread lack of fiscal sense, as expressed by pervasive and intense asset speculation. We've allowed
Boom or not (Score:2)
On the other hand the job market is about to boom, or so it seems. I had a developer freind get laid off (by suprise) the first week of Dec., he found and started a new job before New years eve. That is impresive to me, to get a job over Christmas season.
Boom II (Score:2)
I object your honor!
Booms destroy the foundation, create massive destruction and leave bits and pieces strewn everywhere, but TINLA.
The future is in computers and the internet, Booms will follow. Now I am off to find the next ubiquitous product with a cool name.
Can someone tell me one thing... (Score:1)
IT bubble, IT boom... (Score:1)
IT abscess...
Some people just don't learn (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Some people just don't learn (Score:2)
-live below your means
-make money while you can
-diversify your earning opportunities and skill base with the realization that some of them may disappear
-network like a madman. Connections are what get you work
Re:Some people just don't learn (Score:2)
pumping away at some issue)
"Traditional valuation methods no longer apply in the New Economy"
That wouldn't happen again right? We exhausted the supply of greater
fools didn't we?
Hedley
But it REALLY IS different this time (Score:2)
One thing I learnt from the last bubble (and having read up about other ones in history) people always say "It's different this time..."
Last time we were suffering a credit induced bubble. With the dot.com boom, the fed saw an opportunity to loan out tones of money and get away with it without causing hyperinflation or default because of increased productivity and technology infrastructure. When they turned off the loan faucet, it caused an credit collapse within months and brought down the entire dot
In any case.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Maybe some lessons _have_ been learned. That doesn't mean necessarily that current pricing isn't off, or that the dynamics of self-fulfilled prophecies have changed, but there's definitely more value on the internet now than around 1997-1999, with less flowers.com fluff.
Maybe a part of the 1990s tech bubble wasn't unwarranted overvaluation, and that adds to the hypothesis of a firmer expansion now.
It's naïve to just go "ah, history repeating itself". History never repeats itself, except as a farce.
Hardware bubble harder to make (Score:1)
But seriously, take a look at the way the stockmarket works. How does it differ from a classic Ponzi scheme [wikipedia.org]?
Perhaps there MAY be better returns and stocks do have more legitimacy, but that's about it.
Re:Hardware bubble harder to make (Score:2)
Your share of a company represents a claim on the residual income stream of a business after service of debt, capital expenditures and operating costs. There are plenty of cheap companies out there, fr
Re:Hardware bubble harder to make (Score:2)
No, it is NOT. Your description is totally wrong, otherwise it could not have lasted beyond a generation or two. In fact, efficient economic activity creates new wealth, and this is one place where that newly created wealth accumulates (and is occasionally destroyed).
What they say vs. How it sounds (Score:2, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Why economic equality is sometimes bad (Score:2)
Re:Why economic equality is sometimes bad (Score:3, Insightful)
1929 - Anecdotes of shoe shine boys offering stock tips. So what's your definition of "used to be", because it better not be since then?
Those with no clue on how to invest usually just avoided it, or invested in safe mutual funds or big companies like GE or IBM.
1987 - Program trading gets partial blame for the unchecked selloff. Such trading was typically used by mutual funds and
Re:Why economic equality is sometimes bad (Score:2)
"Boom vs. Bust" is not that complicated (Score:3, Interesting)
There is economic growth in Silicon Valley that we predict will be more stable and longer-lasting than the "Dot Com Bubble" era, because VCs aren't handing out money as freely, and companies aren't being [as] stupid with their money as they used to be. *GASP!* Real, honest, tried-and-true business practices apply to the internet as well!
Call it a "boom" if you want. It's a new, lucrative market that's gaining financial stability because there are plenty of examples from the "bubble" of what not to do.
All Bubbles are Booms..... (Score:2, Interesting)
e.g:
Stan: "Hey, Bob wanna through your nest-egg in to the stock market? I heard it's a big bubble just waitng to burst!"
Bob:Um...no.
Re:All Bubbles are Booms..... (Score:2)
Re:All Bubbles are Booms..... (Score:2)
OTOH, the thing to remember with any boom/bubble/bang/rush/whatever is that the real prospects lie in selling spades, not in digging. So for IT people and for those who actually provide worthwile services (data centres for examples), the future mig
Re:All Bubbles are Booms..... (Score:2)
So there's the key distinction:
If the exuberance is irrational its a bubble.
If the exuberance is not irrational (NB: double negative intended since presumably "not irrational" is less strong rational) then its a boom.
What are the observables? If you see people drinking champagne or buying new BMWs its still a boom. When you see them drinking champagne in their BMWs its a bubble.
Definition of a Bubble (Score:5, Insightful)
WTF am I still in New York? (Score:1)
Grumble.
Jobs (Score:1)
Wired - phooey (Score:2)
No, its another bubble. (Score:2, Insightful)
What makes this a bubble, just like the last one was is more the outlook. When people are starting compan
"google" rhymes with "bubble" (Score:2)
Google's stock price is astronomical and will come to earth when the speculation is over. Even other dot.coms will real revenue like Amazon came back to reality.
In the meantime enjoy the party. Google's making money, its inventing new technology, and its employees and customers are having fun doing so.
Hosing Bubble connections (Score:3, Insightful)
One thing that you'll get an idea of after a while, is that (especially now), investors are trying to keep the economy afloat by generating another bubble to replace the currently failing one (thank you Greenspan). It's really just musical chairs, and I would seriously look at someone who is saying it's different this time as someone who wants to take my money from me.
Don't be fooled, Wired is part of the media and will further its own agenda and those of its Editors and Shareholders before your interests.
Re:Hosing Bubble connections... OR.... (Score:2)
(image word: incense...)
Re:Hosing Bubble connections (Score:2)
P.S.: I googled briefly for links between real estate and the economy in general, but couldn't find anything useful.
Bubble, not boom (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bubble, not boom (Score:2)
Re:Bubble, not boom (Score:2)
Re:Bubble, not boom (Score:2)
I also diagree
No. The next boom will be automation. (Score:3, Interesting)
Cars that drive themselves [autoexpress.co.uk], house hold robots [chosun.com], robotic lawnmowers [friendlyrobotics.com], expert systems, and better search engines etc etc.
Put your stocks into these areas... Its the next big hype because VCs will see these things and be mystified and start hurling wads of cash at the next roomba.
Re:No. The next boom will be automation. (Score:2)
Not if energy and oil trends continue. I am not banking on anything depending on growing industry until those change. And really, those landfills full of disposable plastic machines look ridiculous already.
Re:No. The next boom will be automation. (Score:2)
The energy market will take care of itself and find alternatives no matter what because you can make a profit out of it.
Otherwise I'd change my stance and suggest everyone invest in canned food and shotguns.
There's More . . . (Score:3, Insightful)
Bubbles are also inflated by insiders who exploit the speculation to fleece speculators. In order for this to work really well, however, you need oversight with its hands (intentionally or not) off the tiller. That's what we had in the Dotcom Bubble, methinks. It looked to be good for the economy, so the hand was off the tiller.
Google P/E (Score:3, Insightful)
Solid foundation. Right.
Re:Forget ING (Score:2)
Bubble vs burst (Score:2)
historical blindness (Score:5, Insightful)
Riiiight. Anyone remember the Wired with the smiley face, subtitled "The Long Boom" claiming that this time it wasn't a bubble?
A real boom for this reason: (Score:2)
This is especially true for broadband access. With prices of ADSL dropping, cable modem access getting faster and faster, more and more people getting access to land line-based broadband, and soon the USA getting wireless broadband technologies of various types, the promise of the Internet is finally being fulfilled. Indeed, Apple's iTunes Music Store would not have been possible without widespread broadband availability.
Re:A real boom for this reason: (Score:2)
Google Parasites (Score:2)
Hardware boom not surprising at all (Score:2)
Historically (prior to 2000) businesses all typically operated on a 4-5 year technology life-cycle. The only thing that's changed is that the Y2K projects of the late 90's brought all those cycles into sync.
This will be the only "real" hardware boom as differing approaches to hardware replacement are already bringing them back out of sync.
Nothing to see here, move along...
It's most definitely a bubble! (Score:2, Insightful)
A boom is a boom... (Score:2)
The New BOOM? (Score:2)
Noone seems to have mentioned (Score:3)
Anyone explain this?
Orly? (Score:2)
Cause getting paid instead of paying for college sounds great.
(Before I get berated for trying to skip out, don't worry, I plan to finish college.
And then make more than $60K/year.)
Birds and Mice (Score:2)
Hardware? (Score:2)
Google (Score:2)
Re:wet poop? (Score:2)
Re:Billion dollar freebies (Score:3, Funny)