New Photo Fraud Detection Software 124
An anonymous reader writes "CNet is reporting that Hany Farid, Professor of Computer Science and applied mathematics at Darthmouth College, has developed a new version of his Image Science Group's photo fraud software now in use by the FBI and large media organizations. The current software is written in Matlab, but the new version will be written in Java making it much more readily available to local police and smaller media organizations. From the article: 'I hope to have a beta out in the next six months,' Farid said. 'Right now, you need someone who is reasonably well-trained to use it.'"
but... (Score:5, Funny)
smash.
That's exactly the question ... (Score:2)
That's exactly the question that will come up in court if it's ever used.
(As another poster has already mentioned in the []blackbox software[] subthread.)
Blew the link... (Score:2)
Try this [slashdot.org].
Because it's open source (Score:2)
Re:Because it's open source (Score:1)
Re:but... (Score:1)
Very good idea, but... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Very good idea, but... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Very good idea, but... (Score:2)
Re:Very good idea, but... (Score:1)
Re:Very good idea, but... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Very good idea, but... (Score:1)
open source? (Score:5, Interesting)
followed by -
"...the software will be made freely available under an open-source license.
--
"Taxpayers," he said, "are paying me to do this research and it needs to go back out." "
Which is it?
Re:open source? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or he might not know what he's talking about, and/or wanted to use the term "open source" for good free publicity.
Re:open source? (Score:1, Troll)
An open-source license can not have such a clause.
Re:open source? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you really want to take the term 'open source' to the extreme, I could argue that even the GPL fails to meet some level of openness. The GPL restricts use of its source code on several accounts.
Re:open source? (Score:1)
Re:open source? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:open source? (Score:2)
In real use, words (and phrases) mean what the speaker (writer) wants them to mean. They also mean what the listener (reader) hears them as meaning. (This is rather less the case in the context of formal documents of whatever sort - which is where your cited definition appears.) Definitions in dictionaries reflect that use (yup, I te
Re:open source? (Score:2)
Re:open source? (Score:2)
I use the OSD (opensource.org), nothing more, nothing less. And you can't restrict distribution. You can twist the meaning of 'opensource', I won't.
Re:open source? (Score:2)
Re:open source? (Score:1)
Re:open source? (Score:3, Interesting)
OSD: 5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups. The license must not discriminate against any person or group of persons.
Re:open source? (Score:1)
Re:open source? (Score:1)
Re:open source? (Score:2)
Re:open source? (Score:2)
Darnassus will burn!
BTW I've eaten him.
Re:open source? (Score:1)
This seems like the professor is trying to limit access to his source in order to either keep the number of people with access to the softare low. This is probably for a couple of reasons; people could pick holes is his source and find ways to beat his code, or he just doesn't want anyone outside of government to have the program.
He's throw
Re:open source? (Score:2)
Funnily enough, all open source licenses have limitations. So a limitation that says "only the following american government agencies" doesn't necessarily exlcude it from being open source, IMO.
Re:open source? (Score:1)
Government Funded (Score:2)
Re:Government Funded (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Government Funded (Score:2)
If they didn't give you the software in the first place, you're sol.
In real terms, if the photo guy distributes his GPL'd software only to people who are required by their employers not to redistribute it, then chances are he is acting in the spirit of the licence.
I wouldn't know how federal regulations might interact with this.
Re:open source? (Score:4, Interesting)
Odds are something got lost in translation. I met the guy a few years back and he's quite sharp and very nice and unpretentious. He gave me a copy of the paper this work is based on. I thought at the time he should commercialize it. Open source would be even better.
Anyway, the paper was published and an algorithm should be able to be implemented by anybody with the appropriate skills. So, somebody could do a GPL version even if he doesn't.
The company I was with at the time wasn't smart enough to accept his offer to collaborate on some research. Just as well for him, I say.
Re:open source? (Score:2)
This article likes to contradict itself (Score:5, Interesting)
As pointed out earlier, apparently the source code won't be released but it is open-source. Interesting.
Anyways, also FTFA:
So do they get accepted or rejected?
Re:This article likes to contradict itself (Score:2)
Accepted I assume, otherwise it isn't a problem. I assume this guy gets the papers rejected with his software.
Same shot from a different angle... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Same shot from a different angle... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Same shot from a different angle... (Score:2)
Photo artifact camouflage (Score:2)
They wouldn't be able to say 100% that it was an original, unretouched photo. That may give enough wiggle room to say that the glove didn't fit...
I'm picturing a shirt/mask/helmet with a pattern on it that resembled jpeg blocking artifacts.
You may like to read this (Score:1, Informative)
http://www.eff.org/legal/cases/AABBS_Thomases_Memp his/ [eff.org]
He ran a BBS that was legal in California. A prosectutor in Tennessee sent him child porn by post in order to use Federal law to have him arrested (for receiving child porn thr
Outsource.. (Score:2)
Re:Outsource.. (Score:1)
Why Soviet Russia would love to go digital (Score:2)
In Soviet Union you airbrush scientist out of photo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_disappearance# Soviet_Union [wikipedia.org]
The fun a government can now have with this package will be great.
False positives to kill a story?
Could real digital "abusing prisoners" images now be spun as a hoax?
Just a few well placed reports as to the authenticity of any new digital images could kill a story?
Or lure a leaker out to 'prove' the reality of the images only to
Fallibility (Score:5, Insightful)
"Right now, you need someone who is reasonably well-trained to use it."
I would like to hope that if this software is going to be used for anything of consequence, that someone reasonably well-trained will always be using it. A system is only as good as its operator, ultimately.
Re:Fallibility (Score:2)
It's a fraud, because my blackbox software says so (Score:5, Insightful)
On a different angle, I wonder how soon before such detection capabilities will be available to consumers either as an installable plugin or web-based feature. Imagine being able to verify the authenticity of any picture on the web, ranging from that nude shot of your ex- to that impossibly perfect low-light picture taken by your photography class buddy
Re:It's a fraud, because my blackbox software says (Score:4, Insightful)
Thing is, does the same thing hold true when you're talking about detecting fakes (say), as opposed to building strong encryption? If I announce "Well, we can tell this photo isn't genuine because this part which shouldn't be in focus is", I've effectively announced to any potential fraudsters who might be listening "OK, folks, you need to learn to get your focusing correct".
Realistically, the only way such an algorithm remains secure is if it cannot be beaten even with a full understanding of how it works - and I would ask if such an algorithm even exists yet. If the algorithm is anything less than 100% effective, chances are it doesn't.
Obviously it can be beaten (Score:2)
There are only so many pixels and so many combinations thereof that it'd quite simply have to be possible to make a fake image that meets all the criteria for a real one.
Re:Obviously it can be beaten (Score:2)
I don't think that's his point (Score:2)
I think his point was that people will run images through this software and the software will say "fake" and users will believe it, even when it's wrong. The same problem is true whether closed or open source. They'll substitute the black box's definition of 'fake' for the real definition of fake because it's easier.
Re:It's a fraud, because my blackbox software says (Score:2)
Still object or moving object? Low-light scenes can pretty much be compensated by large aperture and/or long exposure. Large aperture increases depth of field, and long exposure blurs moving objects. He could also use a high speed film that is more sensitive to light but results in more grain in the image. With experience, you can find a good balance between those three factors and take perfect pictures.
I'm sure you know all this
nitpick (Score:1)
Large aperture increases depth of field
Larger apertures (i.e. f/2.8) have a shorter DOF than small apertures (i.e. f/22).
DOF info [dpreview.com]
It works!! (Score:2, Funny)
=D
Re:It works!! (Score:2)
what could go wrong? (Score:4, Funny)
What could possibly go wrong?
And now, rather than processing an image in 30 minutes, it takes 30 hours, yay!
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:4, Interesting)
"...What could possibly go wrong?..."
Well, memory leaks and array bounds probably won't go wrong
Looking at some benchmarks [idiom.com] for numerical processing using Java, it appears to stack up quite well agains C++ at least.
Yeah I know, what exactly is being measured, are the benchmarks relevant, are any benchmarks relevant, blah blah blah. Just pointing out that the parent's postulated x60 slowdown is a trifle pessimistic.
T&K
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:1)
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:2, Informative)
Look at "Java for Numerically Intensive Computing: from Flops to Gigaflops" or "Java for high-performance numerical computing". These both tell that better libraries(for multidimensional arrays) and relaxation of the floating point requirements of Java can speed up things a lot.
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:2)
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:1)
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:2)
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:2)
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:1)
Re:what could go wrong? (Score:2)
I see. So M$ is actually acutely ironic and you
In related news... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:In related news... (Score:2)
The Administration has been caught numerous times photoshopping soldiers into and out of pictures. (And I'm sure Clinton did it too.) I hope a tool like this would encourage a little more honesty & a little less photochopping from the gov't PR people.
/And if a program like this really takes off and is distributed to the media, I think it's fair to expect it
Re:In related news... (Score:1)
Flowers
By
Irene
Oh god! You bastar... NO CARRIER
A Java Version (Score:4, Funny)
"Warning: This nude of Britinet Spears has been photoshopped"
Pug
Morphing? (Score:1)
Great if it could do that.
Re:A Java Version (Score:2)
I've never heard of Britinet Spears, how would I know what she's supposed to look like anyway?
It'll only really get fun ... (Score:1)
Images used for testing (Score:1)
Moon landing (you knew it was coming!) (Score:1)
Re:Moon landing (you knew it was coming!) (Score:2)
Re:Moon landing (you knew it was coming!) (Score:1)
Your arguments sound awfully familiar to those already refuted [demon.co.uk]. In short: Stars aren't usually visible because of the fact that capturing those would need longer exposure, meaning the foreground would be overexposed (hint: Try taking a photograph anywhere with odd lighting conditions, then compare that to what you actually *see* - human eyes have pretty damn amazing dynamic range compared to cameras!) The odd shadows are mostly due to the fact that the surface isn't quite as flat as it seems, and the object
Re:Moon landing (you knew it was coming!) (Score:1)
Re:Moon landing (you knew it was coming!) (Score:1)
Amateur HAM radio operators communicated with some of the Apollo missions. HAMS need to position their antennae correctly to do this, which confirms that the signal did come from at least the direction of the moon, and not from some California backlot.
Re:Moon landing (you knew it was coming!) (Score:1)
$MATLAB/bin/mcc (Score:1, Informative)
A matter of time (Score:2, Interesting)
It uses the same algorithms in a slightly different way: instead of checking for the signs of forgery it finds the tell-tale signs of modification and then reverse-modifies them to "what-should-be-there" to make an "original" modified image.
The result will be an image that is ofcourse different only from mathematical standpoint - visual information will be the same. If that wouldn't be true I would love to have an application t
Re:A matter of time (Score:1)
Re:A matter of time (Score:3, Insightful)
It uses the same algorithms in a slightly different way: instead of checking for the signs of forgery it finds the tell-tale signs of modification and then reverse-modifies them to "what-should-be-there" to make an "original" modified image.
What makes you think this is possible? Let's say I have a set of 15 numbers, {1, 2,
how effective would this be? (Score:2)
Re:how effective would this be? (Score:1)
Re:how effective would this be? (Score:2)
oops back to the drawing board
Government document redaction (Score:1)
When will this software be released (Score:1)
Republicans would never do that! (Score:3, Funny)
"The lighting is off by 40 degrees," Farid said. "We are insensitive to it, but computers detect it."
Well even if that one is fake, at least we know that the one of John Kerry french-kissing Joseph Stalin is real.
Re:Republicans would never do that! (Score:1)
Dupe! (Score:2)
Sigh.
How long 'til used on Oswald-with-gun photo? (Score:2)
The photo appears at the start of this wikipedia article on Lee Harvey Oswald.
(Of course the article is the subject to disputes of its own. B-) )
Re:How long 'til used on Oswald-with-gun photo? (Score:2)
Hany Farid (farid @ cs . dartmouth . edu)
MMMM. My first test to beat this would be. (Score:3, Interesting)
If you actually read the article (Score:2, Funny)
Big_Foot_Prints.
surprised it's not mentioned: OJ covers (Score:1)
I seem to recall some US guvmint propaganda as well where the picture showed a large group at a speech, denoting good turnout and agreement, yet when you looked closely you saw the same
Re:please please please (Score:1)
Now what?