Google and Skype in Startup to Link Hotspots 158
An anonymous reader writes "Google and Skype are investing in a new startup (FON, the Spanish startup) that plans to help hotspot owners charge for Wi-Fi access points. The plan outlines two different classes of customer; "Linus" members, named after Linus Torvalds, will share their hotspot with other Linus members for free and "Bill" members, named after Microsoft's Bill Gates, will charge for access to their hotspot. FON will get some of that revenue, and share it with ISPs."
Fantastic names (Score:4, Funny)
FON Website (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Fantastic names (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Fantastic names (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Fantastic names (Score:2)
Re:Fantastic names (Score:2)
Except that if it was up to Richard, we'd still be waiting to be able to boot the GNU system on more than two pieces of hardware.
I doubt that, actually. HURD would have come a few years later, but the emergence of Linux really removed most of the urgency from its development, and allowed it to focus more on "ideal" design, which slowed it even more. That said, I really doubt that HURD in this alternate, Linux-less 2006 would have been nearly as good in terms of performance and wide-ranging hardware sup
Re:Fantastic names (Score:2)
Re:Fantastic names (Score:2)
He developed firmware professionally and used BitKeeper to store the Linux kernel. I'm not stating an opinion on his actions, however, if actions speak louder than words, than Linus's actions say that he's rather ambivalent to whether or not software should be free across the board. Stallman, on the other hand, has written at great length regarding his views on free software.
Re:Fantastic names (Score:2)
Aside from that, an OS kernel is a great thing, but it's not rocket science. Of course it was really good for making the free OS happen early enough.
More to the point, a free user that shares his bandwidth for free, and a paid user that wants people to pay him is obviously better r
Re:Fantastic names (Score:2)
That doesn't make nearly as much sense as it did in my head...
RMS and Linus charge their own price (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, BSD is the antithesis of Windows, because it is the only completely free OS. RMS's GNU puts strings on it's "free" software that limit how you can distribute modified copies.
Re:RMS and Linus charge their own price (Score:2)
Just like making slavery illegal limits our freedom?
geek pride (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:geek pride (Score:5, Funny)
Reverse Alchemy? (Score:2, Funny)
Now excuse me, I have to fill out my application for an Unobtainium MasterCard.
Re:geek pride (Score:2)
It just sounds so much more... grand?
Re:geek pride (Score:5, Interesting)
I think it's a great way to introduce people to Linux and the concept that there is something other than the "Microsoft Way".
Those of us that know what it means will chuckle, those of them that don't will ask "where'd the names come from?".
I think it's fantastic.
Sure as hell beats the standard marketing bullshit naming schemes that seem to be everywhere, IMO.
Re:geek pride (Score:2)
Kudos to them. People should stop taking some things so seriously.
Re:geek pride (Score:2)
Aliens (Score:5, Informative)
Linuses: People who will let others (Aliens and other Linuses) use their links, if they in turn can use other Linuses links.
Bills: People who will let others (Aliens) use their links, for a percentage of the profits.
Aliens: People who are willing to pay Bills to use their links (and since they pay, they can use Linuses links), but aren't willing to share their own connections.
For more information about the different types of users, see http://en.fon.com/info/linus-meet-bill-meet-an-al
Re:Aliens (Score:1)
Unlike TFA, your link does a better job explaining WTF Google & FON are trying to do.
Re:Aliens (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Aliens (Score:2)
Re:Aliens (Score:2)
Re:Aliens (Score:2)
Linuses: People who will let others (Aliens and other Linuses) use their links, if they in turn can use other Linuses links.
From the web site it looks to me like this is not quite right... I think Linuses can use Linus links *and* Bill links for free.
Re:Aliens (Score:2)
Bill links are never free.
Are you sure? From the web site:
Competition (Score:5, Funny)
I just don't understand what they could offer that would make me switch.
They can't compete on price, nor anonymity.
Re:Competition (Score:5, Insightful)
Think about the residential areas where there isn't a borders or starbucks nearby: You could connect to a "bill" access point hosted by your average joe (provided you bought the subscription), bill gets paid, and google gets paid. While one may think that google is getting something for nothing, it offers a universal payment scheme for residential access points everywhere.
All this and I didn't even RTFA.
Re:Competition (Score:5, Insightful)
All this and I didn't even RTFA.
Hardly anybody RTFA. Mesh networks with multiple outlets to the general Internet threaten the entire status quo; the telecom companies fear this and that is exactly why we all need to promote it. Your ability to get your bits in and out of your neighborhood network is terrifying to the established telecom monopolies as well as the giant media companies. This is what we have to work to implement immediately.
Re:Competition (Score:3, Interesting)
Convincing the ISPs to change their contracts now (before this has had a chance to grow to the point where the value added actually matters) is another matter...
Re:Competition (Score:1)
What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:1)
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:1)
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:2)
You are slightly mistaken -- you are sharing your WiFi with anyone who wants Internet access and is motivated enough to crack your meager security.
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:2)
You missed something. (Score:2)
every fon hotspot will have a cost for 'aliens' and 'bills'
if the hotspot is run by a 'linus' fon will get all the money.
every fon hotspot in the USA will be free, for you, if you run a linus spot- which gets fon more net cash.
but even your own spot, will be provided at a charge to anyone not a 'linus' themselves
Re:What can they offer me I can't do myself? (Score:3, Interesting)
a) other people use that network connection rather than just you
b) FON will know who they are and have contact details for them
That is the reason I don't share my connection, fear that at some point I will have to prove my innocence and what I HAVEN'T done. We all know how hard it is to PROVE a negative is such cases.
And Balmer members.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:And Balmer members.. (Score:1)
Other models (Score:3, Funny)
Like the Linus model, it will be free to use. However it will log everything you do for non-evil purposes.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
Two plus One is Three. (Score:2, Funny)
"Steve" membership (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Two plus One is Three. (Score:1)
Re:Two plus One is Three. (Score:1)
Re:Two plus One is Three. (Score:2)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Balmer [wikipedia.org]
Liability? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Liability? (Score:1)
Tell me this when.. (Score:4, Insightful)
A dangerous precident is being set right now and I feel as if we as private citizens are helpless.
Re:Liability? (Score:2)
Some grandmother in North Dakota who's never touched a mouse. The RIAA prey on the same victims as all those other scam artists who call up senior citizens in Kansas and sell them $10,000 tsunami insurance policies. It has nothing to do with who is actually uploading pirated content.
Re:Liability? (Score:3, Informative)
Not very reassuring to me.
No? I think this is the bit that is reassuring on that count:
FON discourages any inappropriate use of your connection by making sure that each user of the FON Community has registered and is identifiable."
So when the RIAA comes delivers their lawsuit, you should be able to go to FON (or even your own logs perhaps?) and find the name and address of the person who actually did the downloading. Begin able to say "I didn't do it, X did, and here's the proof" puts you in a pre
And snoopy members... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:And snoopy members... (Score:2)
etc
22 million for this? (Score:5, Insightful)
- aims to do something obvious("FON's idea is not entirely novel - in fact, several companies and associations have tried to tie together free Wi-Fi hotspots into networks, but no one has succeeded on a large scale.")
- doesn't yet have a plan on how to prevent the notoriously insular/suspicious ISP's from blocking this service("FON faces a hurdle in that most ISPs prohibit subscribers from sharing internet access with people outside their household")
- doesn't have the software for the "Bill"(read: paying) part of the idea for the next 4 months
- is going against the grain when it comes to wi-fi trends(wasn't Google itself planning to offer free wi-fi in SF?)
- is treading slippery legal ground here(consumers reselling their Internet connections to others)
But wait, Google is investing in it so I guess this really must be a great idea right?
Re:22 million for this? (Score:2)
Well, you must admit that Google's track record has been fairly good... they figured out how to make $$$ on search-engine advertising, back when everybody else thought it would be unworkable to do so; perhaps they will figure (or have figured) out how to make this work as well.
Re:22 million for this? (Score:2, Insightful)
Google can have all the creative and intellectual muscle in the world, but until it starts supplying that Internet connectivity itself, having all that creative and intellectual muscle ain
Re:22 million for this? (Score:2)
There are chances Open Source crushes this, by the way. Implement some Open Source (just to reinsure no spyware is included), securely encripted software that setup this, and voilà. Why paying any commission at all to these people? you can k
Slippery legal ground?? (Score:3, Insightful)
Think about it, all other things being equal, if with one ISP you can use FON and with another not, and you can gain something from it (free roaming) then the ISP who accepts FON will get more customers, plus the revenue share FON are offering.
Promising but also scary (Score:3, Insightful)
The whole thing rests with a private company.
Unlike Napster:
1. The entry barrier is huge. [We are not dealing with data alone]
2. It is difficult to switch to another service; unlike Kazaa to eDonkey to BitTorrent. The reach of the service is local, for Napster it was anyone anywhere with a Network Connection.
3. The guy who started this, is more of a shrewd businessman. He may not give a damn about all that "Freedom" that we really care about.
4. Lots of chicken and egg issues for a competitor to spring up [like ISP support]
By 2008, if this service has 5 million people hooked (like Napster); then where will we stand? To emphasize, unlike switching email providers, or P2P servers, the entry barrier will be monstrous; and only an investment from the likes of Microsoft or IBM will create a competitor.
I will never sign-up for this!
Basically (Score:3, Insightful)
Is this different than Sputnik? (Score:2)
screw wi-fi (Score:1)
The whole "Hotspot" thing is getting old. Really, how many people would use a system/service that:
1. Is not engineered to be accessable country-wide on a single bill and with possibilities of international roaming?
2. Is designed for SHORT distances from access points.
3. Cannot hand over between cells.
4. Is unreliable, no guaranteed uptime and no centralised management of links. (If a link goes down, who is responsible to fix it?)
5. Has no "standard" protocol etc. configuration EVEN FROM T
Re:screw wi-fi (Score:2)
Did you RTFA? The system under discussion does indeed work internationally.
Wifi serves my needs well. I can get online from almost any restaurant or cafe in my neighborhood, which is about 90% of my usage. The rest is in airports and ho
Re:screw wi-fi (Score:2)
Yeah, it makes sens
Re:screw wi-fi (Score:2)
I see many APs daily but there isn't any sort of high speed cellular available for hundereds of miles. I already use other peoples APs and leave one of my APs open. Basically this is just a way for a large number of people to agree on some usage terms and for the less clued to participate safely by buying a pre-configured router.
Re:screw wi-fi (Score:2)
Linus and Bill (Score:2)
I wonder if anyone will release a Darl model too.
Re:Linus and Bill (Score:3, Funny)
That would be the hotspot that is not connected to the internet, yet it broadcasts an SSID and automatically files computer hacking charges against you when you connect.
Re:Linus and Bill (Score:2)
Yes, but it'll just be a guy going from door to door with Darl decals and telling people that they need to place them over the name on the Linus model.
Followed by... (Score:4, Funny)
You open your laptop, attempt to sign onto the wireless network, and a man in a black turtleneck walks up to you, swipes your credit card and hands you a glass of Kool-Aid.
It takes 30 minutes for the first ping...but after that you can connect to anyone in the world for the next 12 hours. In fact, the connection is so good, you can leave your laptop and just move your life-spirit to the actual server you are connecting to, and savor the magnetic aura of the hard drives, whilst having full access to your iTunes library...even the songs that won't be written for another 20 years.
Beat that shit.
Re:Followed by... (Score:2)
'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:3, Insightful)
Skype is both closed source and more importantly uses closed VoIP protocols. It is the antithesis of the 'Linus'. If you don't think that matters, then you just don't get it.
Re:'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:2, Insightful)
Thus it's called the "Linus" model (gratis) and not the "Richard" model (libre)
Re:'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:2)
I'm afraid you could not be more misinformed [iu.edu]. You'd be wise to follow the LKML to find out what Linus actually thinks and says [iu.edu].
Re:'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:2)
Before when ? He though they were "a major pain in the ass, and always horribly buggy" [lkml.org] back in 2003. If he ever changed his mind, it certainly wasn't recently. I'd think the first day he came across a binary module he didn't like them (probably back around 1998, IIRC when binary modules first appeared), because he didn't have access to the code to fix bugs if he encountered them.
Re:'Linus' users shouldn't be (Score:2)
Love the Idea but lets CC it (Score:1)
Is there already such a thing?
Re:Love the Idea but lets CC it (Score:3, Informative)
That is the Linus side. As to the code, it is freely available via their site, so copying is not that difficult. In fact, it is the linux set-up for the linksys w54g model
FON's website (Score:4, Informative)
http://en.fon.com/ [fon.com]
And of course, their blog: http://blog.fon.com/en/ [fon.com]
It still isn't too clear though on what the advantage is of having a "Linus" hotspot instead of just having it be open-access. My guess is that the main benefit is that hotspot users are authenticated with a "global" ID, which would help deter abuse, spamming, etc.
Re:FON's website (Score:5, Informative)
Are you sure you read the site? The reason to run a Linus hotspot is so that you will get reciprocal access to all the other Linus hostpots out there.
[And how did parent get modded informative? All it said was that the author didn't have any information to add.]
Re:FON's website (Score:2)
Re:FON's website (Score:2)
Sure, but I guess I'm still not seeing how this differs from just running an open-access point, from the POV of somebody running a hotspot.
And how did parent get modded informative?
Probably because I was the only person who actually mentioned where the company's website was.
Re:FON's website (Score:2)
I find this comment confusing. The reason I'm enticed to run one is so that I can get access to lots of other hotspots all over the place. To me that provides significant value.
Re:FON's website (Score:2)
Yeah, I think I was confused. After thinking it through a little more (juggling a bunch of other things at the moment), it makes sense.
Mesh networks (Score:2, Interesting)
A tough part of any agreement like this is, just like the article states, to actually get people to work together and provide access. There is an interesting perspective on how it might need a radical group who do it for kicks in Cory Doctorow's novel " Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town [craphound.com]" to get things moving.
Personally, I think a time will come when WiFi access is very common, and some kind of roaming agreement between providers will cause your access to be metered by your ISP wherever you are.
Tri
If you know Spain, you'll see it won't work (Score:3, Informative)
1) The man itself. No one in Spain would buy a used car from Martin Varsavsky.
2) In Spain it's illegal to resell or even share your Internet connection, the contract with the ISP almost always says so. It can be debatable, but it is what you have signed.
In fact, FON has been around for some time with very limited success. It gets mentioned in the news just because Varsavsky is a known celebrity in Spanish ISP world.
Verizon, Covad and Comcast sure aren't going (Score:2)
Does FW help sharing Internet access but not LAN? (Score:4, Insightful)
I do have an open access point at home, because I appreciate my ability to use other people's access points when I'm on the road, and so I feel I have to share mine as well.
BUT, I don't want to share my LAN.
It just happens that I do have 2 access points at home, so what I do is that I use the crypted one and leave the other one open for friends, visitors and passers-by.
This is not a very good solution, because I need to remember to switch off the open AP whenever I connect an insecure machine on my LAN (like during OS install, etc.), and every time I switch it back on, I have to think about my notebook's firewall and sharing settings.
What would be really great would be a router solving these problems in an easily configurable way: some authenticated users have access to the whole LAN while others have not.
Until now, the only solution I have seen is a VLAN switch, which is too expensive for home use.
Re:Does FW help sharing Internet access but not LA (Score:3)
I just set up a spare Linux box with three NICs - one to the cablemodem, one to the wired LAN, one to the AP. Then just set up whatever software you want for isolating / verifying / authenticating. I used OpenVPN to allow access to the wired LAN, although I've considered trying out NoCatAuth as well. I am also thinking about implementing some firewall rules to impose throttlin
Re:Does FW help sharing Internet access but not LA (Score:2)
Not really at home. My notebook is WinXP, the family machine is dual-boot XP/Linux. The servers I take care of are all Linux, but there is none of these at home. So
I just set up a spare Linux box with three NICs
that's not what I would like to do, even though it would work very well indeed. But I neither want to spend the time to set it up, nor do I want to have a bulky machine with a fan (the only ones I have for free) eat up space for something which I don't really nee
Re:Does FW help sharing Internet access but not LA (Score:2)
OpenWRT is pretty sweet, and FON's concept is actually appealing. But as someone else said there's this nationwide free WiFi network with the ssid "linksys" that's free, anonymous and available in
ISPs get paid twice? (Score:2, Informative)
That's a sweeet deal. For the ISPs.
Interaction with Access Point Aggregators? (Score:2)
YOU are annoying... (Score:2, Insightful)
Do you think it is free for the provider? No? Than what makes you special that you think someone else should pay for your convience?
Re:YOU are annoying... (Score:2, Insightful)
This model of charging will hopefully see more places actually offer wifi services, whether free of charge or not. Actually, I doubt whether places that currently don't charge for access would ever charge, as it would affect their competitiveness- imagine two
Re:This is annoying (Score:5, Insightful)
The obvious response to this would be to not go to Starbucks. If you don't like that a business will not give you free internet access, don't shop there. This seems pretty brain dead simple to me. Hell, here in Boston there is a Starbucks and an ESR. ESR offers a free and open wi-fi access. Guess which place I buy my coffee from?
If the manager of Starbucks feels that offering free wi-fi will hurt business, then why should he do it? If he thinks he can make extra by charging for wi-fi, why not? If you don't like it, go some where else.
Re:This is annoying (Score:2)
I've seen it a million times, someone will plunk down a laptop and start camping out. Those people can tie up a table for an hour or two, which is bad from a business standpoint.
It's also partly about the atmosphere you want to create in the stores. Do you want tables full of chatty customers, people with their noses stuffed into books or solo campers who're glued to their laptop.
Stores
Re:This is annoying (Score:5, Interesting)
In this country (Malaysia), wifi is free at Starbucks. I don't really see anyone with a laptop who doesn't also have a drink-in-progress. People (myself included) order something every hour or so, and at those prices, that's surely keeping them in business.
After hours it's a different story. Many of the Starbucks near me have primarily outdoor seating, and when they shut at 1 or 2am, strange characters show up with decal-coated laptops and do mysterious things late into the night. If this really bothered the management, presumably they would turn off the access point or bring in the chairs at closing time.
Re:This is annoying (Score:2)