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The Internet Government Role Playing (Games) Politics

Political Strife Erupts in Second Life 156

Posted by Zonk from the getting-hot-in-there dept.
covert.c writes "A real-life drama in the political world has spilled over into the virtual, as the Second Life headquarters of France's controversial Front National political party fell to violent protesters. The anti-FN activists, who had armed themselves with slogans, placards and weapons, leveled the digital buildings occupied by Front National. Second Life is often home to established political and social movements. It seems logical that opposing forces would also choose to make SL their stage."
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Political Strife Erupts in Second Life More

Political Strife Erupts in Second Life

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  • Uhm... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @07:10PM (#17655208)
    Since when do MMO players need politics as an excuse for grief play?

  • French Front National? Splitters! (Score:5, Funny)

    by spun ( 1352 ) <loverevolutionary&yahoo,com> on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @07:11PM (#17655222) Journal
    Wait, we're the French Front National? I thought we were the National French Front. Oh, that's him over there is it? Splitter!

  • Sadly... (Score:5, Funny)

    by __aaclcg7560 ( 824291 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @07:18PM (#17655354)
    You need a third life to get away from the politics.

  • Amazing (Score:5, Informative)

    by drinkypoo ( 153816 ) <drink@hyperlogos.org> on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @07:19PM (#17655366) Homepage Journal
    Wikipedia makes them look like a sort of "wind back the clock" party. I'm amazed that they were even willing to have a headquarters in second life. They seem to be very protectionist and provincial. Their general delegate was suspended from his professorial position for five years for historical revisionism. The founded had to pay 1.2M francs (~200k Euros) for the same sort of thing, claiming the Germans' occupation "hadn't been so inhumane". (I don't agree with this lack of freedom of speech in France, but they're kind of a nasty country anyway, with cops wearing masks so they can't be identfied in court and the like.) I mean, Le Pen would actually like to evict all non-european immigrants from France. I don't think doing your best to evict them from second life is actually wrong. FN has basically declared war, and at the same time diluted the name of my favorite Belgian arms manufacturer. I say string 'em up! (digitally)

    • Who in France would not wish to turn back the clock?

      Every night, over 100 cars are burned by the immigrants who will be the new France. The birthrate is below replacement rate. 43% of all children in France are born to unwed mothers.

      France is quietly fighting an intifada in les banlieux (sp?), and France is losing. You might say that France is a quagmire.

      If you like France the way it was, I recommend that you visit soon, and take lots of pictures. The France to come will be a Muslim nation. Some peo

      • Re: (Score:2, Flamebait)

        by Ford Prefect ( 8777 )
        Every night, over 100 cars are burned by the immigrants who will be the new France. The birthrate is below replacement rate. 43% of all children in France are born to unwed mothers.

        IT'S THE END OF THE WORLD! UNWED MOTHERS! FILTHY, HORRIBLE IMMIGRANTS EVERYWHERE! ...

        Do you read the Daily Mail [dailymail.co.uk]? You'd probably like it.
      • Pink Floyd wrote a song about the British equivalent of the Front National. Here is an excerpt.

        Would you like to see Britannia,
        Rule again, my friend?
        All you have to do is follow the worms.
        Would you like to send our coloured cousins,
        Home again, my friend?
        All you need to do is follow the worms.

        Waiting, to cut out the deadwood.
        Waiting, to clean up the city.
        Waiting, to follow the worms.
        Waiting, to put on a black shirt.
        Waiting, to weed out the weaklings.
        Waiting, to smash in their windows and kick in their doors.

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by Original Replica ( 908688 )
          "Just what is the FN's "final solution" for the Islamic question?"

          Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels. Is there a world wide war of incompatible cultures? Islam vs. the Western World? If it is war how show a cultural war be fought?

          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by mr100percent ( 57156 )
            Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels


            What, allowing them freedom to practice their own religion [everything2.com] and protection by the Islamic government? Even Iran lets the Jewish MPs in office, and swear on the torah or bible.


            Quit your FUD.

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by bucky0 ( 229117 )
              Not to disagree with your main point, but Iran's constitution makes it so that every minority gets an MP. Whether it's a token gesture or if he actually can do things there is another question.

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              by Original Replica ( 908688 )
              "One of the greatest debates within the Muslim Ummah, one that causes division within the Islamic nation and that is often used by the enemies of Islam as a means of ascribing brutality to our religion is centered on the methods by which Islam was propagated throughout the globe. Was Islam spread by the sword? The quick answer to this question is a resounding yes and in this article, we hope to set the record straight using the evidence from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, the practice of the Guided Caliphs and

              • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                by mr100percent ( 57156 )
                jihadunspun, a right-wing site, is disregarded by most Muslims. They're incorrect. Forcible conversion is NOT allowed in Islam, since the Quran says "Let there be no compulsion in religion" (2:256). God does not accept insincere conversions, so forced ones do not count.

                Besides, India was ruled by Muslims for centuries, but is 85% Hindu today. No mass-forcible conversion ever took place. Spain was ruled by Moors (Muslims) for 700 years, yet allowed Jewish people greater freedom of religion than Christian Eur

                • Re: (Score:2)

                  by Detritus ( 11846 )
                  Before you wax too poetically on the tolerance of Islam, you might want to read a few history books. See Myths & Facts -- The Treatment of Jews in Arab/Islamic Countries [jewishvirtuallibrary.org].
                  • Isolated incidents, and regrettable ones at that. The religion does not command mass murder, nor destruction of synagogues, both of which scholars of the Quran condemn as un-Islamic. Besides, the destruction of a synagogue in Egypt in the year 1014 does not mean that all Muslims believe in that. Look at how much violence is done in the name of every other religion, does that mean it's supported by it?

              • This is more the part of Islam that concerns me.

                Yeah, because that part of islam isn't anything like what christianity used to be, and the spanish inquisition didn't exist...

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by dangitman ( 862676 )

            Let's hope it's better than Islam's "solution" for infidels.

            I didn't realize that the only two options were ultra-right-wing racist Westerners and ultra-right-wing racist Islamists. I could have sworn there were other choices of how we run our societies and governments.

      • Same issue in the southern US only it's catholic hispanics.

        Essentially, in 40 years they are going to be the majority.

        Rest of us are not breeding. I only had one child myself.

        • Essentially, in 40 years they are going to be the majority.

          Yeah, so what's the problem?

          • 1) They play their music (heavy polka/bass beat) in their houses so loud at 2 am that you can hear it 3 blocks away.
            2) They play their music during the day so loud that you can hear it even further away.
            3) They are mostly catholic and are going to enforce catholic social values once they are in the majority.
            4) They mostly speak spanish- not english so I can't understand them.
            5) Many feel they should take the area back to Mexico and carry mexican flags when they demonstrated recently.
            6) I can deal with the p

            • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

              by dangitman ( 862676 )

              1) They play their music (heavy polka/bass beat) in their houses so loud at 2 am that you can hear it 3 blocks away.

              As opposed to the white folk that play their music loud at 2am?

              3) They are mostly catholic and are going to enforce catholic social values once they are in the majority.

              Just like white folk enforce their values and religion when in the majority?

              4) They mostly speak spanish- not english so I can't understand them.

              Why is that a problem? If you want to understand them, you could learn Spanish. but why do you need to understand them, anyway?

              5) Many feel they should take the area back to Mexico and carry mexican flags when they demonstrated recently.

              And what's your point?

              7) Their children tend to form gangs more than we did when we were children.

              If they are breaking the law, arrest them, just like we arrest white kids who break laws.

              8) They tend to favor more authoritarian governments (because of the catholicism I suspect).

              Any evidence of that? America already has a pretty authoritarian government.

              I don't - I could go on but why bother. You've already made up your mind.

              Well, you definitely seem to have. I'm not su

              • 1) Yes. Apparently, the social values are that noise is okay. My neighborhood is silent as a tomb during the day and at night. My friend's neighborhood used to be. Now that it is about 40% hispanic, the noise is just constant. The police don't even try to stop it any more. They have parties in their garage with the garage door open and a big boom box inside and the party is not inside the house- it's out on the front lawn and driveway.

                3) You have a good point there. Right wing christians and left win

            • Re: (Score:2)

              by ronfar ( 52216 )
              Uh-oh.

              The Catholics are coming for us!!

              Run for the hills!!

              Hmm... wait a minute. I'm Catholic, my Mom's Catholic. In fact, my Mom's side of the family is Irish Catholic. My Dad's Catholic too... German Catholics. Heck, I was an altar boy.

              So, um, why am I supposed to be scared of Catholics again? Is it because they are frothing nutcakes who want to summon forth the apocalypse so they'll be Raptured up to Heaven?

              Oh, wait, those are Protestants....

      • We probably aren't living in the same france, dude.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by elrous0 ( 869638 ) *
        France has become a victim of its own political correctness. Too afraid to boot out the immigrants, lest they be labeled racists. Yet too mired in immigrant violence to continue to pretend it's not a problem. Quite a cage you've constructed for yourselves.

        -Eric

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by OECD ( 639690 )

      The founded had to pay 1.2M francs (~200k Euros) for the same sort of thing, claiming the Germans' occupation "hadn't been so inhumane". (I don't agree with this lack of freedom of speech in France, but they're kind of a nasty country anyway, with cops wearing masks so they can't be identfied in court and the like.)

      Souds like he may have been on to something...

  • Yup, in the left's worldview you are allowed to be any race, color, gender identity, etc. If you keep it in the closet and swear that it doesn't actually influence your behaviour you can even have a religion. But deviate from the accepted policy positions of the left and watch how little tolerance they have for that. They will violently suppress the slightest deviation from orthodox socialism.

    Compare this with the other story posted today where US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment in their

    • Re:Another demonstration of the tolerance of the l (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Ford Prefect ( 8777 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @08:23PM (#17656272) Homepage
      But deviate from the accepted policy positions of the left and watch how little tolerance they have for that. They will violently suppress the slightest deviation from orthodox socialism.

      Absolutely. And paranoids on the right are correct - there is a global leftist conspiracy. We receive our orders from the Party on a daily basis, and follow them to the letter. Good news, too - you'll be the first up against the firing squads come the glorious revolution.

      ...

      To me, the news story was about a pseudo-fascist political group in France trying to leap on to the bandwagon of publicity about Second Life, before being chased off their server in a typically amusing manner by a bunch of online griefers. However, assorted Slashdotters appear to take this as evidence of some kind of hateful leftist conspiracy, intent on stifling free speech and dissent on the internet.

      Oh noes!

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by Lallander ( 968402 )
        Sorry, The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes." We will have to be content with second.

    • Not left vs. right (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Cheesey ( 70139 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @08:31PM (#17656388)
      Hmm. It's not really a left vs. right issue. I think that protests against the FN are really about drawing attention to the nature of the FN.

      Neo-Nazi organisations like the FN and the BNP in Britain have come up with a "respectable" face. Now they are patriots. It's all about conserving traditional values, a return to the way things were at some magical point in history when things were Good. Traditional justice, small government, support for local business, more policing - who wouldn't want that?

      But there's much more to it than that. Underneath, the same people are involved, and they want the same thing - power. Power like the kind of power Hitler had. And their bigoted views are lurking just out of sight: Send the darkies home, fight back against the Muslims (terrorists, dontchaknow). Holocaust? What holocaust?

      Some people will support them because they are genuine bigots. But I believe that most people are basically good, not intrinsically racist. It is these people who should understand the true nature of the FN before they make the mistake of voting for them.

      Everyone, whether liberal, conservative, or socialist, should speak out against fascist ideas. Your political viewpoint doesn't matter: no-one wants a dictator.
      • There's another aspect that I would add: fear.

        Many of the people in FN (and many other ultra-right-wing organizations) are afraid. They are afraid of changes that are happening. The mythical "Good Old Days" that they hope to restore are facing threats, not least of which that some keep pointing out that they're mythical.

        That kind of fear leads to people looking for easy targets, rather than useful / legitimate targets. For the Nazis, it was all part of the Grand Jewish Conspiracy. For the Copperhead Militia
    • Compare this with the other story posted today where US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment in their continuing efforts to suppress political dissent during campaigns, reign in unregulated bloggers
      *sigh* Should I even bother to point out that the whole "reign in unregulated bloggers" is an amendment by David Vitter (R-LA)? Of course, then I'd have to explain that's it's being overblown anyway. Oh, nevermind, have fun with your tirade.
    • US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment

      Please back this up with a link, troll. How exactly do you revoke the 1st Amendment?

      I thought it was the Supreme Court's job along with Bush's to erode the Bill of Rights? Why would Bush let the Leftists do his job?

    • US leftists are aiming to revoke the 1st Amendment

      Someone should probably tell them that they're late to the party and that KG has already slaughtered it, along with the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th.

      They can still try to revoke the third though, looks like it's still there.

      They should probably hurry.

  • Left vs Right? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Colin Smith ( 2679 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @07:40PM (#17655684)
    Really, do politics boil down to left and right? A single axis of political belief? Don't you think that's a little bit simplistic?

     

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ricree ( 969643 )
      As far as I've seen, it mostly comes down to people who want to be able to tell others what to do, and everyone else. Unfortunately, the government has gotten really full of that first type of people. This whole left and right thing is just a set of labels for the different things that they want to force down our throats.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Ford Prefect ( 8777 )

      Really, do politics boil down to left and right? A single axis of political belief? Don't you think that's a little bit simplistic?

      There's always the much-maligned Political Compass [politicalcompass.org] - with not one but two axes to look at. I posted a link to it a long time ago, and was immediately accused of it being slanted towards the left, or even as being a part of this hateful leftist conspiracy various Slashdotters appear so concerned about.

      It's an interesting exercise anyway, even if you don't agree with its results.

      • The two-axis world view of the political compass is Libetarian. If the Libertarians are considered left-wing these days, the situations in the US is worse than I imagined.

        The two-axes of the political compass is way better than the single axis, but you can of course choose many different axes. The axes of the political were better suited to the cold war era. These day I'd say a tribal/local vs. humanist/global axis would better match many of todays political conflicts.

    • Really, do politics boil down to left and right?

      For most people, yes. Politics and ideology are mind cancers. Some day we may find a cure, but not for a very long time. They may be the diseases that lead to human extinction.

      • Actually I think the electoral system forces people into thinking left-right. When you go to countries with more proportional electoral systems, they don't really have a concept of left-right.
         

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Jesrad ( 716567 )
      Of course not, all good libertarians know that the correct axis is "authority / liberty".

      Similarly, all good Discordians know that the correct axis is "Entropic / Disentropic".
  • How long will it be till he makes his judgement on this game? ;-)

  • That's sort of interesting about the buildings (Score:4, Informative)

    by MattGWU ( 86623 ) * on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @07:52PM (#17655864)
    The FN must have given up and left. You can't 'level the digital buildings'. There's very little, if anything, you can do to other peoples objects in SL, and certainly not on their own land. The landowner or the person in charge of the land group must not have been there, paying attention, or clued in to his own power to disable object rezzing, disable scripts, disable push, disable flight, ban, freeze, eject, etc etc. And that's just the built-in land tools, and not even getting into third-party security systems, which would be more difficult to overwhelm with numbers than a human op (The comparison of an SL parcel owner to an IRC op is apt in terms of power over their domain).

    • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

      by FishWithAHammer ( 957772 )
      Technically untrue. There are ways to overload someone else's parcel and cause things to de-rez. There are also other ways that I wouldn't talk about because they violate the TOS.

      And there's no way to stop someone from dropping on THEIR land and dragging it to yours.
    • People protesting FN crashed the server containing the FN land with all their scripts. From TFA:

      Since Porcupine is not a damage-enabled area, weapons there have about as much stopping power as pointing one's finger at the computer screen and saying Bang Bang. But get enough projectiles flying, and server lag is bound to ground anyone's use of the area to a halt. (Or in my case, cause the Second Life viewer to crash.)

  • You can destroy property in second life?

    And I always thought that games sucked!

    Maybe I was mistaken.
  • Second Life solved the problem by turning out the lights around the protestors, and they were eaten by grues. ...

    Yes, I am horribly old. :(

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by lazarus ( 2879 )
      "Yes, I am horribly old. :("

      Only if you've played adventure on the original punchcards... I doubt the kids on this BBS or whatever newfangled open systems trinket this service is even know what a grue is...

      Do you remember hunt the whumpus?

  • Just Wait ... (Score:3, Funny)

    by twitter ( 104583 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @08:45PM (#17656574) Homepage Journal
    ... the Vi vrs. Emacs war will make this little show look small.

    • Well, the real winner will be the one to get it running in the editor of their choice first. No idea how it will represent the graphical world, tho.
    • ... the Vi vrs. Emacs war will make this little show look small.

      The meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything is.... to determine which editor is actually superior. Cosmic wars shall be fought, and in the end, emacs shall triumph! (can you tell which side I'm on?)

  • Curious about this "Second Life" and coverage (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Jugalator ( 259273 ) on Wednesday January 17, 2007 @09:15PM (#17656960) Journal
    Anyone else noticed quite a big jump in news stories just about the recent year or so about Second Life, despite still having a quite small highly active user base compared to World of Warcraft and the likes? Either it's somehow popular to report on this "unusual" game (personally I find it quite boring, although the stories are fun for laughs), journalists find the game "futuristic" in the sense of what it's doing ("Oooh, look, we found out news about this cool game where you can protest for/against the UN or whatever!"), or there's the tin foil theory with many Second Life gamers submitting story material to news sites, posting it in blogs, etc to generate coverage.

    Personally, I don't really see the big deal. Some huge geeks started using a game as a platform for politics debates? What's new, really. People stand out in towns in WoW, Guild Wars, and other games and sometimes get into hot "religion and politics" debates. It's just more of the same, only that due to how Second Life works, they can take a more "practical" stance on it with crappy designed graphics looking like something out of the early nineties to help their cause.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Knara ( 9377 )
      Yes, and I suspect it's the result of a very good marketing/PR staff at Linden Labs, and not the result of organic excitement in this particular mmo.
    • Very true. Same thing happened with Halo 2. Someone somewhere really likes it.

      I tried Second Life but quit after 10 mins because it seemed like a load of bollocks. Not a fan of MMORPG stuff myself, but there are plenty that are much much bigger.
  • This is probably one of the few times that someone screaming "Pig! Pig! Pig!" at at a rowdy demonstration would get more than my peripheral attention.

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