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Google Businesses The Internet Books Media Education

Google Working To Make 'iPod/iTunes for Books' 128

Posted by Zonk from the books-are-already-portable dept.
nettamere writes to mention an initiative by Google to take the library online. The end result of the Google Book Search, the company hopes to see a future where they are not merely referring customers to Amazon, but instead offering them the ability to download books directly. According to the Times Online, Google hopes to 'do for books what the iPod did for music.' From the article: "One of Google's partners, Evan Schnittman of Oxford University Press, said he foresaw a number of categories becoming popular downloads: 'Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book?' The book initiative would be part of Google's Book Search service and its partnership with publishers, which will make books searchable online with publishers' approval. At present, only a sample of each book is available online."
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Google Working To Make 'iPod/iTunes for Books' More

Google Working To Make 'iPod/iTunes for Books'

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  • Something more (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Today's tech just makes for a not very pleasing alternative to a paper-based book. And who want a book that withholds its content because the battery has gone dead? I am glad Google is working to digitize books that have not yet been digitized. And more text online makes a more showcases for Google ads. But I do not see digital book tech being there any time soon. The technology of paper-based books is just too difficult to exceed while pleasing the regular reader.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Viper Daimao ( 911947 )
      I dunno, maybe if they display it with electronic paper, which doesn't use energy except to change the screen. Could even attach some photovoltaic cells and get power from your reading lamp.

    • The hardware is there, just (Score:5, Interesting)

      by michaeldot ( 751590 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @06:03PM (#17705686)
      There are some quite capable eBook readers on the market, lead by the Sony Reader and the iRex iLiad. Both feature an e-ink screen which uses a matrix of charged dark and light particles at a resolution of around 160 dpi to represent a paper page.

      There is no backlight and power is only consumed when the black/white charges are flipped to rebuild the page. The Sony Reader is rated at about 7000 page turns before a battery recharge is necessary. It can be happily left on without worrying about the battery going flat, and owners report in excess of months between charges.

      Without a fluorescent backlight, the screen is far easier on the eyes than reading on a LCD screen, provided the ambient light in the room is good. The screen readability is roughly equivalent to a pulp paperback novel. (The texture is smoother but the white is not pure white, rather a very light gray.)

      The main limitations are getting the content onto them. The Sony Reader accepts text, RTF, PDF and Sony's own proprietary eBook format, which is what books bought from the Sony Connect store are supplied in (DRM protected).

      RTF is generally accepted as the best form to obtain and create books in, as PDF has to be specifically make to the 600x800 screen resolution (larger PDFs scale poorly) and is slower for the device to render.

      Buying books from the Sony Connect store is acceptable in theory, but in practice the range is somewhat limited to recent bestsellers and popular classics, and the price is only discounted around 20% from a pulped tree equivalent (for something that is less tangible and less shareable).

      Books from the Gutenberg project and other sources can be freely downloaded and transferred as text (plain) or RTF (moderately formatted) although these of course are classic, out of copyright works. More modern books, for which a legitimate or illicit PDF or CHM has been obtained (eg, O'Reilly manuals) can be converted from their original form into RTF, but the process is somewhat tedious and more work than the drag-and-drop method of say transferring a downloaded MP3.

      (This is also not helped by poor Sony Connect software (intended to be iTunes for eBooks, and clearly UI inspired by it), which is slow and poorly designed.)

      Still, with the Sony Reader and similar devices accepting up to 4GB SD cards, able to store a library of many thousands of books in a quite readable format which is slimmer than a potboiler novel, the hardware certainly shows promise. This is a first generation line of products, so inevitably it will improve for the next rev.

      Filling them is the hard part, which is where Google could help.

      • Re:The hardware is there, just (Score:4, Informative)

        by kalidasa ( 577403 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @11:34PM (#17707712) Journal
        *As a device*, I love my Sony Reader. When I can find a good copy of a good book in a format that works with the software, it's a very pleasant experience (and yes, I do bring it into the bathroom, though not into the tub - but then I would never bring a paperback into the tub, either). Unfortunately, the Connect software is so bad that it makes it pretty damned hard to get the kind of use out of it I would prefer. The Connect bookstore is atrocious: I'd say as much as 10% of the books are mis-categorized (since when is St. Augustine's *City of God* "Contemporary Fiction?"), the selection is terrible (10,000 books? That's about the size of a little airport bookstore - and like the airport bookstore, there are multiple copies of some books), the interface is frustrating (nothing like having two scroll bars, and why do ebookstores insist on listing only 10 books per page - well, probably so it will seem like they have a bigger selection), and the quality is very uneven. Converting anything other than an RTF is irritating - for text, Connect can't figure out when it should run lines together and when it should preserve line breaks, and it doesn't ask, and PDFs are simply scaled rather than being reflowed, so most of my PDFs (like O'Reilly books) aren't readable unless I go through a laborious cut-and-paste process or find some software of dubious legality to decrypt them). There's no mechanism for updating fonts (sure, I could hack into the machine, which runs a Linux, and add them myself, but I don't have time for that), and I need to keep a Windows VM for the Connect software (which looks so bad it might as well have been written in Swing and at least been cross-platform). Finally, there's no commercially available software for formatting your own books, except for a Japanese program sold by Canon for the Librie and a bunch of mediocre freeware that never quite does a good enough job.

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by macshit ( 157376 )
        There are some quite capable eBook readers on the market, lead by the Sony Reader and the iRex iLiad. Both feature an e-ink screen which uses a matrix of charged dark and light particles at a resolution of around 160 dpi to represent a paper page.

        I tried the original version of the Sony reader, and found it extremely overhyped -- it had nice resolution, sure, but frankly it wasn't that nice, and the contrast was quite low (and the display color somewhat unpleasant); overall it was almost as annoying to read

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by nomadic ( 141991 )
        There are some quite capable eBook readers on the market, lead by the Sony Reader and the iRex iLiad. Both feature an e-ink screen which uses a matrix of charged dark and light particles at a resolution of around 160 dpi to represent a paper page.

        I was very excited about the Sony Reader, until I got a chance to try one at the bookstore. The quality of the screen is excellent, size was good, price was high but not ridiculous, but that burst of static when you turn a page just killed it for me. I really

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by pen ( 7191 ) *
        I returned my Sony Reader. The hardware is beautiful and functional. The software was pure crap -- including the device's software. As you mentioned, PDFs scale poorly. But RTFs and ASCII files are also poorly formatted. And -- get this -- no Unicode support!

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by dsoltesz ( 563978 ) *

      I'm a tried-and-true eBook fan. I was happily using a Rocket eBook for six or seven years for almost all of my pleasure reading - 14+ hours of battery life usually got me through at least a week long vacation... no trying to read in the dark using a headlamp, no bothering hubby with a bedside lamp, and I could carry a large number of books in about the weight and volume of a good sized paperback. The downside was being restricted to certain formats and not being able to read books that come out in various

  • Somewhat misleading: TFA is not about any new hardware, just that Google is scanning in books to make them avialable online. Great, but hardly anything new here.
    • Given the rumours coming out of Cupertino, I suspect Apple is making iTunes to be the "iTunes for books". Maybe they'll tell all when a widescreen ipod comes out.

  • Guide books? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ChePibe ( 882378 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @03:58PM (#17704624)
    'Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book?'

    Yes, I'd much rather have a guide book in my hand that screams "I'm not from here" than a digital version that could run out of batteries leaving me stranded and lost or, worse yet, the look of "I'm not from here" (generally obvious for tourists, anyways) and focusing all of my attention on an expensive looking toy, which is likely to draw in more problems.

    I'll take a good old guide book any day, thanks. The novels, however, we can talk about.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by garcia ( 6573 )
      I would prefer neither. I don't like guide books and I don't really like listening to audiobooks. I just got an audiobook as a present and I really can't stand it at all. For some reason I cannot get into the book while it's playing in the car (or anywhere for that matter) -- too many distractions. There is something about reading that really draws me into the novel that I can't seem to replicate with an audiobook.

      As far as guidebooks go, I'm better doing some prior research and using Google Maps to way
    • If you're worried about people mugging you for a couple hundred dollars worth of electronic equipment I'd suggest leaving that camera back at the hotel as well.

      And as for running out of batteries, the same thing could happen to your cellphone but I'm betting you take one of those along with you.

      The thought of being able to take along a guide book or two, a couple of novels in case I get bored, and even a couple of comics in digital form sounds like a pretty good idea. There again, I think I'll just wa

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Vexo ( 825223 )
        There again, I think I'll just wait until the iPhone comes out and have everything all in one.
        And this is exactly the kind of cool stuff that Apple is precluding by not allowing third-party development.
        • They do allow 3rd party development, much as you can buy 3rd party games for your 5G iPod. It just won't be an open platform, so only regulated 3rd party apps will be allowed (Probably through an iTunes-like interface for purchasing them).

    • Re:Guide books? (Score:4, Funny)

      by MORB ( 793798 ) on Monday January 22, 2007 @08:38AM (#17709604)
      Tourists worry too much. This is why you print "don't panic" in large, friendly letters on digital guide books.

  • How would one install the books? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    As long as I can install the books using Linux software, I'd support it. Amazon has got an unhealthy DRM model that makes me not want to buy any ebook from them.

  • I call bullshit! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tomhudson ( 43916 ) <barbara@hudson.barbara-hudson@com> on Sunday January 21, 2007 @04:02PM (#17704650) Journal

    From the summary:

    Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book

    I'd rather have a book and not have to worry about internet connectivity, worrying about dropping a laptop or other reader into the bathtub or a pool or a sidewalk, battery life, rain, leaving it behind at a restaurant, getting it stolen, and "sorry, you can't take that in here".

    Books "just work" - and if you lose it, you only have the cost of a paperback.

    And no, I don't want to read a book on my cellphone, either, even though I watch 3gp ripped episodes of The Simpsons on it when I have to kill some time.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Bootle ( 816136 )

      Books "just work" - and if you lose it, you only have the cost of a paperback.
      Guess you've never mis-placed your $160 copy of Ashcroft and Mermin [amazon.com], have you?

      • Books "just work" - and if you lose it, you only have the cost of a paperback.
        Guess you've never mis-placed your $160 copy of Ashcroft and Mermin, have you?
        Hey, that's still a LOT cheaper than my cellphone, or pretty much any laptop. Not to mention that when I replace either of the electronic devices, I STILL have to replace the data.

    • Re:I call bullshit! (Score:4)

      by mochan_s ( 536939 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @09:02PM (#17706856)

      I lost my Munkres [amazon.com] and it cost me $100 to replace it.

      Books don't just work. Books don't work where there is no light - e.g. inside a car.

      You can store the contents of the entire book in flash memory and not have to worry about internet connectivity. Water related problems also occur with paper books. You can buy AA or AAA batteries almost anywhere. If worst comes to worst, there's always the hand crank. Plus, these new readers don't need power to maintain a page on the display - just to change them or other functions.

      The only downside I see is that it seems it's more straining on the eye.

      • Books don't just work. Books don't work where there is no light
        Neither do any other book-replacing devices, escept audio books. You need a source of photons to see, for *any* device, whether a book or a screen.

        • Neither do any other book-replacing devices, escept audio books. You need a source of photons to see, for *any* device, whether a book or a screen.

          That's being pedantic!

          There's a backlight that's usually built into screens that can be turned on when there's insufficient light (in case you didn't know).

          And, of course, it is situated such that the LCD screen is between the light and the eye so that that selective photon propagation through the LCD screen can give a visual representation of the data to b

          • eInk (Score:2)

            by DrYak ( 748999 )
            In order to save battery time (drains power only to change pages), most eBook reader uses non-backlighet eInk.
            It makes them less depending on a power source than a laptop.
            But it makes them dependent on a light source like a book.
          • A book and a flashlight are still cheaper than a laptop.

            AND the book can still be read when the batteries are dead ... or when you don't have a source of power ... or around a fireplace ...

            • A book and a flashlight are still cheaper than a laptop.

              Actually, my semester's textbooks total was more than a cost of a low level laptop. Plus, a gadget to read books would cost less than a laptop.

              AND the book can still be read when the batteries are dead ... or when you don't have a source of power ... or around a fireplace ...

              But not in the backseat of a car at night.

              It can always have a hand crank for power generation when the batteries die.

              • Actually, my semester's textbooks total was more than a cost of a low level laptop. Plus, a gadget to read books would cost less than a laptop.

                ... and you would still have had to pay for your eTextBooks (the content). And, unlike your eTextBooks, you can sell your textbooks at the end of the semester (no DRM). In many cases, books are better. Way better.

  • hardware is the problem (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Jett ( 135113 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @04:03PM (#17704662)
    Until there is decent hardware to read books on, projects like this aren't going anywhere beyond niche markets.

    I love books, I own a few thousand of them and buy new ones every few months. I don't own a single ebook and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an ebook reader that was superior to an actual book. The only benefit to ebook readers over physical books are portability and storage capacity. The problem with this is that neither of these are big problems with physical books - if I'm going on a long trip it's not a big deal to bring even a few full sized hardbacks along to read. I don't need to have a library of books on my person at any time, the most books I've ever needed to bring with me anywhere at one time (since high school) was 4, and that was to read on a flight to the other side of the planet. I don't often fly to the other side of the planet.

    • Re: (Score:1)

      by Anonymous Coward
      A while ago, the exact same statement could have been said re: mp3s and CDs:

      Until there is decent hardware to listen to music on, projects like this aren't going anywhere beyond niche markets.

      I love CDs, I own a few thousand of them and buy new ones every few months. I don't own a single mp3 and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an mp3 player that was superior to an actual CD. The only benefit to mp3 players over physical CDs are portability and storage capacity. The problem with this is that neit

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by Jett ( 135113 )
        Bad comparison I think. It makes more logical sense to bring a library of music with you since chances are good you will use a significant percentage of it. If you bring either library of ebooks with you on a long trip or a library of mp3s, which provides the greater benefit? Clearly it's the mp3s, even if you are a voracious reader you're not going to read more than a few books. You may listen to several hundred songs though, and you may want access to a variety of musicians and genres because music listen

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by shmlco ( 594907 )
          My fiction reading speed is on the order of 1200 WPM. As such I can go through a LOT of books when I'm bored. On several occasions I've taken an old iPaq that has about 100 Baen ebooks on it with me on vaction, though a year or so ago I joined Audible and now I have an iPod with about 90+ books there. The pod can be used in more situations, like when I'm working out or standing in line.

          I've been waiting FOREVER, however, for Apple to get on the stick and add ebooks to their multimedia store. I guess the pri

      • Re: (Score:1)

        by clamum ( 934624 )
        Hahaha... you can't be serious. Comparing CDs and books makes no sense.
        • Comparing CDs and books makes no sense.


          Not any more, but s/he was making the point that this same argument (s/books/CDs/ s/ebooks/MP3 players/) was being made a few years ago.

          Think Iraq & Viet Nam, e.g., at least the rhetoric matches.

          It holds for me, especially considering how bulky jewel cases seem now, and how much better (and fatter) MP3 players are now.
      • Ugh. If you like traveling with a bunch of jewel cases, that's fine, but I, too, remember The Time Before iPods, and I didn't like it one bit.

        First, those jewel cases suck. I'd never manage to go more than a few days without cracking one, or breaking the hinge pins so the covers would fall off, or any number of other things. They were just a bad design from the beginning.

        Plus, whenever I went anywhere and brought a handful of CDs, I'd always end up wishing "gee, too bad I didn't bring CD x, that would have

    • Re:hardware is the problem (Score:5, Interesting)

      by RattFink ( 93631 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @05:05PM (#17705186) Journal
      I really have to disagree with you there and I am sure I am not the only one. Personally the only books I prefer in print is either reference books or those that use a lot of pictures. Any novels that I buy I first look for the ebook version. There are a few reasons why:

      1. I don't need to disturb my wife's sleep with a lamp.
      2. I can adjust the type size to suit me.
      3. I can read a lot faster on the devices.
      4. I predominately read during the evening and the backlight makes things far easier to read and a lot more comfortable since I am not constantly adjusting to book for the best lighting as I change pages.

      • Re:hardware is the problem (Score:5, Interesting)

        by Anonymous Coward on Sunday January 21, 2007 @05:28PM (#17705360)
        anon because i modded before reading your post.

        other than the ones you list, i also like having the following advantages

        i have formed a habit of reading till i fall asleep since i got my p910i two years ago

        - i don't have to get up or even turn to turn off the light/reading lamp
        - the book remembers where i stopped reading. i can carry on reading whenever i get 2,5,10 minutes (good for the climactic parts when reading fiction)
        - i can even set it to scroll automatically so i dont have to do anything to keep reading, but i will have to turn it off manuall or lose the other two benefits
        - i can carry as many books as i like and they will always take up the same amount of space/weigh the same
        - i can annotate, markup, and do anything i like with the content, without damaging the original 'print'
        - with mobipocket format i am not bound to a single medium for purchased books. i can read it on my phone, my computer, and any other media that mobipocket may support tomorrow

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by bismark.a ( 882874 )
        Those are good points. Heres more to why e-books are better :-
        1. I can search
        2. I can annotate easily
        3. I can carry more books than in my library, in my pocket!
        4. I can make notes on the book, and yet leave it without a single scribble mark
        5. I can use the new apple iPhone's rubber banding software on the multi touch version of iReader to flip through pages effortlessly, and without all that gooey licking for moist fingers thank you.
        6. I can download all newspapers on a single device, and have all the news related t
        • 5. I can use the new apple iPhone's rubber banding software on the multi touch version of iReader to flip through pages effortlessly, and without all that gooey licking for moist fingers thank you.
          I never understood why people need moist fingers when they are reading. I never have a problem with turning pages and my fingers are usually pretty dry. Yes, I do understand hydrogen bonding - thank you. Can someone explain this? Is it really that hard to turn a page?

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by macshit ( 157376 )
          Ebooks obviously have many advantages, but so do physical books. Not only is the latter usually much easier to read no ebook has even come close to the quality (or size for a portable ebook) of the "display" on a good book -- but also I find the ability to use one's physical intuition to relate different pages to be invaluable when doing more than just reading in linear order. [Searching, bookmarks, and other ebook mechanisms are also good, but they're different, and I find them useful at different times.
        • Some counter-points:

          1. I can cuddle a physical book. E-books are un-cuddleable.
          2. Following up on that thought, there is something really great about the feel of good book paper.
          3. Have you ever smelled a well aged book? The perfume formed from the paper and ink and dust is one of the best scents I know.
          4. I enjoy not having a backlit screen. Looking at screens all the time becomes tiring, and I feel far more impatient in my reading when I do it off a screen.
          5. (direct response to parent's #4) Have you e

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Kjella ( 173770 )
        Personally the only books I prefer in print is either reference books or those that use a lot of pictures

        I've never understood that about reference books. At my desk it's less practical to wield a rather large and heavy book, compared to switching to another window. Not to mention that the digital version has faster indexes, in-page linking and search functionality. The only books I buy are paperbacks - for the reason that I typically read them on the go, and quite frankly they're not treated very nice (cru

        • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

          by RattFink ( 93631 )
          Really this one boils down to one thing. Most of my reference books deal with either electronics or software development, both of which typically require extensive use of my computer's screen real estate; put simply a paper reference book allows me to use the book without juggling windows or flipping back and forth. I know that probably isn't the best answer but thats it.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by TubeSteak ( 669689 )

      I don't own a single ebook and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an ebook reader that was superior to an actual book.

      How much are you willing to spend on an e-book reader?

      A friend of mine got an Irex iLiad [irextechnologies.com] recently and it is awesome. The "electronic ink" is really slick. The text is crisp, the page transitions are smooth & the battery life is pretty good.

      There are cheaper eBook readers... but with 1st gen technologies, you're getting what you pay for.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by SilverJets ( 131916 )
        According to that web site the iLiad is $810.00 US. For the reader.

        Do you know how many novels you can buy for that much money?

        I like the idea of a e-reader but I am sticking with paperbacks until and e-reader is more cost effective. At that price it looks like it will be quite a while before I buy one.
    • i use my pdas for reading books, for about 5 years now actually. i like it and i think they are superiour to real books - adjustable font sizes, backlight for reading in darkness, real searching, much better bookmarks and of course the portability and storage capacity you already mentioned which is especially important when going on vacation.

      no way am i going back to dead trees.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Roxton ( 73137 )
      What surprises me is that the Sony Reader [sonystyle.com] has received so little public attention. I tend to keep up with gadgets and have a personal interest in electronic paper tech, but I didn't even hear about that product until very recently.

      That thing is definitely on my wishlist... after the iPhone... and a new laptop... and a DSLR... and a Wii... and an updated video card... and updated ASIC design software... snow tires... Oh, bother.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by shmlco ( 594907 )
        That's because it sucks. The text is dim and low-contrast, hard to read except in bright light, and it has the exceedingly annoying habit of flickering the entire screen every time you "turn" a page. Add the proprietary DRM and the limited selection plus the full-boat retail prices of Sony's online store, and you've got the makings of yet another Sony disaster.

        If you've got a list, make sure it stays at the bottom of it.

    • Until there is decent hardware to read books on, projects like this aren't going anywhere beyond niche markets.

      I love books, I own a few thousand of them and buy new ones every few months. I don't own a single ebook and I doubt I ever will because I've yet to see an ebook reader that was superior to an actual book. The only benefit to ebook readers over physical books are portability and storage capacity. The problem with this is that neither of these are big problems with physical books - if I'm going on

  • What's on the cover? (Score:5, Funny)

    by adnonsense ( 826530 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @04:14PM (#17704756) Homepage Journal

    I'll buy one of these electronic guide books provided it has the words "do not panic" in large, friendly letters on the cover.

    If not I'll stick to my hard-edged paper travel guides which also come in useful for swatting the local wildlife without ruining the guarantee.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Grave ( 8234 )
      My thoughts exactly. It would be exceedingly useful to have a Wikipedia-linked device that is compact and portable, just like the H2G2. And as long as "do not panic" is written across the front, it would sell quite well (even if 90% of the world's population didn't get the joke).

      When we reach the level of cheap/free worldwide wireless internet connectivity (whether it be cellular, satellite or WiFi), a device like this would be extremely useful and practical. We're not there yet, but the basic technologi

  • Bad article (Score:4, Insightful)

    by IamTheRealMike ( 537420 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @04:14PM (#17704758)

    Ever notice that whenever you read an article in the newspapers about something you know about, it's always riddled with errors? This article made me think of that. In my not so humble opinion, this is just a really, really bad piece of writing. Where do we even start?

    Furthermore, since Google is acquiring copyright material at no cost, it seems to be treating books quite differently from all other media. It is prepared to pay for video and music, but not, apparently, for books. The Google defence is that their Book Search system is covered by the legal concept of "fair dealing".

    I guess he means fair use, not fair dealing. I'm not sure why he thinks Google is paying for music. This is news to me ...

    But the second thing to be said is that I could read whole passages of my books of which I own the copyright. At once a huge intellectual property issue looms.

    The ability to quote or use small parts of a work as fair use has always been there as far as I know. This is a new way to use it, that's all. Is this post a looming intellectual property issue now?

    Jeanneney says that Google is not what it seems. Its search results are biased by commercial and cultural pressures. He has a point. Try this: go to Google Book Search and enter Gustave Flaubert. The first results are full of English translations of Madame Bovary.

    Given that the author points out elsewhere that the American libraries are the first to allow digitization of copyrighted books, I'm not sure why he is surprised by this.

    "It's the readers who will have the final say" ... No, it is the teachers who will have the final say. They will determine whether people will read for information, knowledge or, ultimately, wisdom. If they fail and their pupils read only for information, then we are in deep trouble. For the net doesn't educate and the mind must be primed to deal with its informational deluge. On that priming depends the future of civilisation. How we handle the digitising of the libraries will determine who we are to become.

    I don't even know what to make of this paragraph. The net doesn't educate? Teachers will dictate how we read books in the future? If students only read books for information, we're doomed? It seems like a random collection of ideas that aren't backed up with logical argument, but exists only to give a punchy ending paragraph.

    I admit, I never cared much for The Times, but this sort of writing is below even their standards. It jumps all over the place, gets the facts wrong, generalises too much and is sensationalist in style. Poor show guys.

    • Re:Bad article (Score:4, Interesting)

      by stubear ( 130454 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @05:25PM (#17705346)
      Fair Dealing is a non-US name for Fair Use, so yes, it is a legitimate term and the author was correct to use it. As for Google's use of the books being Fair Use, this is for the courts to decide. There is nothing clear cut about determining Fair Use. Google is not commenting on, critiquing, or parodying the works, they are simply offering a snippet of the work without adding value to the work (no, exposure to the world at large is not an exemption covered by Fair Use).
      • The author was incorrect to use it, particularly in quotes, because they were talking about a U.S.-based company and U.S. law. In the United States, the term is "fair use," not "fair dealing," so the former would have been the correct term.

        Alternately, the author could have not put the term in quotes, which would have made it acceptable, or better yet, used the correct term in quotes and then followed it with the term that would have explained it to the casual non-U.S. reader. However, he or she did neither

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bill_mcgonigle ( 4333 ) *
      Ever notice that whenever you read an article in the newspapers about something you know about, it's always riddled with errors?

      Yeah. I therefore assume all articles are of the same quality, especially on subjects I don't know about.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion

    • Re: (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      go to Google Book Search and enter Gustave Flaubert.

      He should go to Google.fr Recherche du Livre and enter Gustave Flaubert if he wants results en Francais. An English language search returning English language results first seems correct to me. The French search gives you French results for the entire first page. Google.de Buchsuche gives German results for the first five and a mix of German, French and English in the second five. I wonder what google.jp's results look like?

  • although not very successfully. I like the store, but the selection sucks. I fail to see how google will get more publishers than Sony, but I guess we will have to wait and see.
  • I have very much enjoyed the iPod Nano as a book viewer -- the Notes section lets you read Project Gutenberg texts, and the device's form factor is great for always having handy and stealing moments here and there to read. The big problem with the Notes feature is that the text files are limited to 4KB. That makes it a hassle to put the text into the ipod because you have to use split(1) or a similar utility to break it up. That seemed really stupid and shortsighted to me. But, as always, Apple is crazy
  • those who can't, Google. FTA: No, it is the teachers who will have the final say. They will determine whether people will read for information, knowledge or, ultimately, wisdom. If they fail and their pupils read only for information, then we are in deep trouble. Here's hoping the teacher knows how to Google for more than porn :)
  • MP3 player.
     

  • The 4 novel + 1 guidebook holiday (Score:3, Funny)

    by Rich Klein ( 699591 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @04:52PM (#17705078) Homepage Journal
    Maybe if I worked at Google I'd have enough vacation time to read 4 novels and use a guidebook to do some sightseeing. :P
  • Just what I've been looking for recently, actually! If they manage to make a decently priced e-book reader to go along with this, it would be perfect.

  • Why I wouldn't buy. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by lattyware ( 934246 )
    a) I don't like reading off a screen as much as off paper. b) There is a thing about turning the page, the smell of a book - for me - is something important.
  • iTunes/iPod for books?!

    You mean once you've bought a book, you can only read it, you cannot loan it out, give it to a charity shop, or even show other people?

    I guess it also means you can only read it in one place, jees I'll have to chose between the crapper and the train now.....

    I guess once a year we'll have to buy a new version of the book if we wish to continue reading it, and subscribe to a new library every couple of months or else we won't be able to read any new books.

    Better read the book quick too,

    • Yes, I'd rather Google not do to books what iPod did to music. They came late to the party, added DRM and several layers of obfuscation, and gave the entrenched monopolies of the past a toe-hold in the digital future. The net result is that the nicest of hardware is also the some of the least friendly to free software and it's users. Others have been publishing ebooks without the restrictions. I'm not going to be happy if the only way to get newer books is going to boil down to a choice between ever mor

      • What the iPod did to music? It popularised the idea of using a hard-disk player, made it socially acceptable and made the use of an online store (yes, DRMed, but the DRM isn't very restrictive (and, as I found recently, is very sily-eanay ripped-stray)) popular.

        If someone can do that for eBooks, where nobody has been able to before, then they'll stand to be very successful.

  • Google: A plea (Score:2, Funny)

    by Bootle ( 816136 )

    Dear sweet, evil-less overlords,

    Please please please PLEASE bring the unwashed masses electronic paper. Thousands of pages, hundreds of hours of power. Please! Break the cartel of book publishers that strangle poor college students' wallets. Give them an e-reader and downloads of their texts for free/cheap. Allow universities site licenses for their texts, and give outgoing students the option to buy their copy. You are more powerful than Harry Potter!

    And do it quickly, before Sony writes a textbook

  • In Capitalist West Microsoft drm turns book off after 5 pages.
    In Soviet Russia kgb turns book into 5 pages for you.

    In Web 2.0 CIA and google read with you.

  • for the visually impaired (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I have been using gutenberg.org for about 2 months now and I love it. Reading analog books is not pleasurable for me due to my poor sight and being to resize text on my downloaded .HTML books through Firefox is quite nice. Gutenberg has a decent selection but it is only a small fraction of the books in real life so having somebody like Google working on an E-Book system is great news for people like me.

    Besides, literature is expensive; only about 1/3 of the price goes to actual profit for publisher/author.
  • Companies like Vitalsource have been doing this for years now. http://vitalsource.com/ [vitalsource.com] (Quite literally, iTunes for books) Unfortunately either publishers don't trust the distribution method, or customers don't trust it. Is Google's name all that's needed to change the problem on both ends?

  • is that when you're reading one, the book itself offers you no distractions. The physical book contains just the novel (or guidebook, or collection of short stories, or whatever) you're reading. Nothing gets between you and the content. The book offers escape from the short attention span theater we all live in.

    So yes, I'll take the four novels and the guide book when I'm on vacation.

  • Accessibility is very important. I'm visually impaired and use a device (www.bookcourier.com) to read text files. Of course, most ebooks aren't distributed in ASCII, but in some kind of DRM'd format. I've spend a lot of time coming up with ways to break the DRM on ebooks, just so that I can use them. The only format which I know can be reliably broken is Microsoft's .lit. I'm not stupid enough to hope that google will release books in plain text (although I wish they would), and I'm sure almost no publ

  • iTunes will be the iTunes for Books (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dr.badass ( 25287 ) on Sunday January 21, 2007 @08:18PM (#17706626) Homepage
    Call me crazy, but I think iTunes is more likely to be 'iTunes for Books'. Here you have this hugely popular downloadable content store that already sells every other kind of media, versus Google, which, bless their hearts, has never had much success selling anything but ad space.

    I don't think it's such big leap--the store is all ready there. iTunes already distributes some PDFs with music albums, and even supports them in podcast feeds. I assume PDF would be used because it's not yet-another-proprietary format, is extremely versatile, supports content protection, and is easy to produce.

    The other part of the equation is the devices -- e-reader devices have traditionally sucked much ass through some combination of being bulky, low-resolution, greyscale, poor format support, poor battery life, and by virtue of being yet-another-device-to-carry-around. Regardless of what you think of the iPhone, I don't think you can argue that it's lacking in any of these areas: It'd make a damn-near perfect ebook reader. It already supports PDF, already syncs with iTunes -- it's begging for content. And I'm begging for a page-flipping gesture.

    Maybe I'm wrong, maybe Apple isn't planning to start selling ebooks -- but unless Google can make buying from them not suck (Google Video, I'm looking at you in disgust), and bring something more than a Blackberry as a reader, I still say Apple is in a much better position than Google is.
    • maybe with the iPhone, they could display them. ipod's screen is currently too small to really use books nicely, and not many people want to read on laptops. Hopefully theywill introduce books available online through the itunes store. That being said, if they were DRm'ed and unable to be copied, or -redownloaded I still woudln't go near them. Also it will take a while before portable devices with screens suitable are produced. The first gen of e-ink ebook readers are very good, but when this technol
  • I hope they use an open format with little or no drm. I have purchased ebooks from Baen in the past ( http://www.webscription.net/ [webscription.net]) and I love their no-drm html file setup. For reading ebooks I just use my cell phone, it's small and get's great battery life, no screwing around with an ebook device. I use Tequilacat Book Reader, it's a simple, free and excellent tool (http://tequilacat.nm.ru/dev/br/index-en.html [tequilacat.nm.ru]). If Baen stuck all sorts of DRM on their books I would be limited to using a small number of expe
  • As I see it, theres already a quite useful and working system for eBooks thats like iTunes, but for books, and thats webscription.net, although there is one big difference, NO DRM. I've personally been using this website for a few years to get ebooks, It started off with only one publisher (Baen) but lately it seems to be branching out with other publishers as well (although slowly). It doesn't have many different genres of books, but it is selling current and future releases and offers large portions of th
  • 'Do you really want to go on holiday carrying four novels and a guide book?'

    I really don't want to go on holiday carrying an electronic reader/player and whatever bulky and awkward gear is needed to keep it recharged.

    They are being vague, too. Is this 'audio book' they are talking about? Or are we supposed to scroll down reading half paragraphs at a time on the dinky display on an iPod? Audiobooks been done already. eBooks have, too.

  • I can already take out a book and read it on my computer from my local lirbary. what makes this so special? I know I am the network tech who gets questions from patrons on how to do it. I mean that the book is an electronic copy.
  • imagine reading an article that has sources - and seeing "click here to download" the source for $.99 or whatever. Universities could have subscriptions for student, built in wi-fi, the ability to share portions (a page or so) a-la zune.... generation 2 of these machines could be very cool indeed.

    Of course, we'd start getting spam to buy penthouse letters for cheap, but hey.

  • Are you sure about that? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by LuNa7ic ( 991615 ) on Monday January 22, 2007 @01:02AM (#17708078)

    Google hopes to 'do for books what the iPod did for music'
    Convert them into a obscure format and then riddle them with DRM?

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by daeley ( 126313 )
      "Convert them into a obscure format..."

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding [wikipedia.org]

      Advanced Audio Coding (AAC) is a standardized, lossy digital audio compression scheme. It is a method of compressing audio files, such as WAV, AIFF or imported from a CD. ... AAC was developed with the cooperation and contributions of companies including Dolby, Fraunhofer (FhG), AT&T, Sony and Nokia, and was officially declared an international standard by the Moving Pictures Experts Group in April 1997.

      "...and the

  • Sheet Music (Score:2, Interesting)

    by indigest ( 974861 )
    I think this is a great start for an application to help musicians. Any classical musician knows that the amount of sheet music you own quickly spirals out of control. Not only that, but the books are heavy and cumbersome for a student to drag around. And they can be very annoying when they don't lay flat or the binding breaks. Oh yeah, and these books are very expensive, especially when you need a specific edition imported from Germany [wikipedia.org].

    I was impressed that some of the books on books.google.com [google.com] were
  • Being a paper-sniffer I just can't see a future for this. Every book has its own unique sweet smell of wood pulp made laminate - unless you can reproduce that via an olfactory plugin to the digital device, I would rather lug the tomes around thanks very much.

    What? stop looking at me like that!

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