Google Defuses Googlebombs 169
John C. Worsley writes "Google announced today a modification to their search algorithm that minimizes well-known googlebombing exploits. Searches on 'miserable failure' and their ilk no longer bring up political targets. The Google blogger writes: 'By improving our analysis of the link structure of the web, Google has begun minimizing the impact of many Googlebombs. Now we will typically return commentary, discussions, and articles about the Googlebombs instead.'"
Big changes? (Score:4, Interesting)
If google is now discounting the wording other people use to link to a page, then isn't google themselves becoming like old fashioned engine, ie only specifically accounting for information on the actual page and not based on what other people who link to this page thinK?
By improving our analysis of the link structure of the web, Google has begun minimizing the impact of many Googlebombs. Now we will typically return commentary, discussions, and articles about the Googlebombs instead.
reworded becomes:
By ignoring the link structure of the web, Google has begun minimizing the impact of many Googlebombs. Now we will typically return only results which are from the actual page itself rather than looking at how other people link to each other.
A googlebomb is not a bad thing, its making use of the algorithm to expand the keywords which a page is associated with.
Sidenote:
I did a search for google [google.co.uk], and the snippet that comes up under each google entry does not exist on the page itself, where does it actually come from?
for example:
Google
The local version of this pre-eminent search engine, offering UK-specific pages as well as world results.
www.google.co.uk/ - 4k - 24 Jan 2007 - Cached - Similar pages
I thought google weren't meant to display a different page to bots as to users? (didn't they get in trouble for something similar not so long ago?)
Re:Big changes? (Score:5, Informative)
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Well, I still think there was an legit problem (Score:5, Insightful)
How they did it. (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:How they did it. (Score:4, Insightful)
If people look up "facist," they should get Hitler or Stalin, even if those guys never called themselves that, and there's no precise definition. It's what people think about them.
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Well that's the question, isn't it? Why do you think they were abuse? If people look up "facist," they should get Hitler or Stalin, even if those guys never called themselves that, and there's no precise definition. It's what people think about them.
This raises an interesting idea about the exact nature of Google (and other search engines) and exactly the type of information they aid in providing. Are they providing the most relevant factual information? O
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But who determines what the most relevant information is?
A shocking number of people here believe that Google should attempt to make decisions regarding what is and is not relevant. This is not the nature of the Internet. Until the telecom corporations win their multitiered internet, the Internet is "the people". Therefore, "the people" should decide what is and what is not relevant. If "the
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Googlebombs weren't about history.org linking to hilter.com with the text: "Fascist"... Googlebombs were about CuteKittenBlog.blogsyou.cx linking to a site, using the text "French Military Victories".
It shouldn't be hard to automatically sort out which of those cases should be given weight, and which should not.
But to speak to y
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=click+here [google.com]
Google's new "failure" search (Score:2)
Unless you wanted to know about "congestive heart failure" (in which case you wouldn't have just typed "failure"), that page is completely useless.
When Google p
Re:Big changes? (Score:5, Interesting)
Not necessarily. It depends, like most other things, on how it is handled. The practice of googlebombing is the practice of mob rule and google quite sensibly worked to put a stop to it.
A googlebomb IS a bad thing, it's a group of people with an agenda railroading the functionality of a resource upon which the health of the internet depends in a very real way. Again, it's mob rule; a certain segment of the population runs away with the whole idea.
Are you saying that bots are getting different search results than users? Because absolute shitloads of websites serve different versions of their pages to google for a wide variety of reasons. For example some premium sites allow google to index part of their content in order to rope people into buying a subscription.
Re:Big changes? (Score:5, Informative)
Are you saying that bots are getting different search results than users? Because absolute shitloads of websites serve different versions of their pages to google for a wide variety of reasons. For example some premium sites allow google to index part of their content in order to rope people into buying a subscription.
Yes, that's called "cloaking" and can get you delisted. BMW Germany's website got removed from Google [slashdot.org] a while back for doing it, and presumably less prominent ones regularly are as well. Google's official position [google.com] is that you should write a decent web page and they'll be able to figure out how it should rank:
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The power they do have is to create an algorithm that gives me back the kind of pages I was looking for. I will then use google and therefore look at thei
Re:Big changes? (Score:5, Insightful)
No. That's what it is. Why should I stop?
So is Mob Rule. That doesn't make it a good thing.
So is using cars on the freeway as practice targets for your minigun. Fun is not the ultimate arbiter of what is right.
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But democracy is just that, mob rule. What ever the majority of the mob wants, the mob gets.
Actually, no. "Mob rule" would be a "mobocracy", or an "ochlocracy" if you prefer the latin/greek roots of your words. It means "rule by the mob" or "rule by the majority". It implies a rule by force, although that is not necessarily literal.
Democracy is "rule by the people", which implies *all* the people, not just the majority of them. There's many forms of democracy, of course, but it is definitely not "mob rule".
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To add to what the sibling comment: No, democracy is democracy (and to date, largely mythical.) Mob rule is Ochlocracy [wikipedia.org], also as stated by the sibling. The important thing you're missing is that mob rule operates through intimidation and it is the reason for not announcing poll results from one coast while the other coast is still voting. It's also the stated reason for the electoral college in the US, although these days we have seen that its true purpose is very diffe
Re:Big changes? (Score:5, Insightful)
No, Page Rank is weighted democracy. A Googlebomb tries to destroy the Page Rank.
Page Rank is supposed to sort the pages according to there relevance, based on the links found on the Internet. A Googlebomb tries to prevent Page Rank from doing that by manipulating the links on the Internet. A Googlebomb does not mean that Internet users get more relevant results it is the other way around.
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I think it's more sophisticated than that, and I don't think Google plans to reveal more about how it works than necessary, so as to maintain their algorithm's "security by obscurity". Someone will figure it out eventually, but at least it
KISS (Score:3, Insightful)
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That info is from Froogle (Score:3, Informative)
That's coming from Froogle. Companies that sign up with Froogle or Google Checkout have some additional info about them. Try, say, Super Warehouse [superwarehouse.com], which Google describes as "Online retailer of color laser printers, laptops, hard drives, LCD monitors, and digital cameras". That text isn't from the "www.superwarehouse.com" web page, which starts out "Printers - Scanners - Toner - Monitors - Projectors & More at Super Warehouse".
Re:Big changes? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Now we already know that google have the technical ability to ignore links, using their stupid nofollow tag idea that was publicized a few years back. The blog entry suggests the new idea had a pre
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Re:Big changes? (Score:4, Insightful)
Really now, stop it. There's no reason to believe, at all, that Google is ignoring link structure. Google probably sees a certain percentage of inbound links (with the exact same title) in a short period of time (say a week or two) and marks it as a potential Googlebomb.
Whoop-di-friggin-do. Yeah, it hurts shit like blog pranks, but it also fucks up spammers big time. Remember, a Googlebomb isn't just fun and games, it's also plenty of Viagra spam.
Meanwhile, the rest of us who work at getting high search rankings honestly have not been hurt. Amazing.
Tom Smykowski (Score:3, Funny)
You know, I had an idea like that once. A long time ago. It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mod. You see, it would be this mod input that you would put on the bottom of each comment, and it would have different conclusions available in it that you could jump to.
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miserable failure (Score:5, Insightful)
The whole reason PageRank was create was because the exsiting technologies at the time, namely keywords and before that meta tags, were being abused like hell. Now PageRank is being abused left and right. It's time to take a step back and rethink.
Please clarify (Score:2, Funny)
Re:miserable failure (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, it is. Because those seem to be the pages actually dealing with "miserable failure", different from the homepages of George Bush or Michael Moore (which were both victims of miserable failure Google bombs). If no other pages prominently feature "miserable failure", that's not the fault of the search engine. They can only find what's there.
Google bombs weren't a priority at Google precisely because the abuse was mostly done with irrelevant phrases like "miserable failure". You only search for those when you hear about Google bombs for the first time.
The whole reason PageRank was create was because the exsiting technologies at the time, namely keywords and before that meta tags, were being abused like hell. Now PageRank is being abused left and right. It's time to take a step back and rethink.
Google bombs don't have much to do with PageRank. They're about link text being abused.
As for rethinking, they're doing this all the time at Google. They're constantly updating their ranking algorithms.
Re:miserable failure (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm with you on this one, but it also makes me wonder...
The purpose of link text is to impose additional, personal meaning on a link, like this: "Today in the news we learned about Windows monoculture [slashdot.org]". The "Windows monoculture" link text is my own meaning imposed on the link. Google is, or at least was, putting some trust in that imposition: Google would elevate that slashdot page's ranking under the category of "Windows monoculture", on the assumption that I'm probably not misrepresenting its content.
A google-bombing can therefore occur without any conspiracy: if lots of people imagine themselves witty for jokingly linking the phrase "miserable failure" in their blog to www.whitehouse.gov, the result is an unintiontional google-bombing. And as other posters in this thread have pointed out, there is some truth value to that.
Now we hear that Google is changing this, which means paying less attention to my link text, and instead devoting more computation towards analyzing what the target page is actually saying. I suppose Google is going to read the slashdot page I linked, and decide for itself what it's about rather than taking my word that it's about Windows monoculture. That's got to be computationally expensive.
It's the same general problem as we see in academia with scholarly references. Let's say some guy writes a thesis and uses some other paper as a reference, claiming it lends support to the new theory. We can trust his citation (i.e. Google can trust the link text), or else we can mistrust him and go and dig up the reference text and read it ourself.
Obviously that kind of mistrust is expensive (but isn't all mistrust?)... but after a certain amount of abuse, it's a price we have to pay in order to maintain the same degree of certainty. As for rethinking, they're doing this all the time at Google. They're constantly updating their ranking algorithms.
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If I look at the HTML I see this:
<a href="http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/ 26/1455224" title="slashdot.org">Windows monoculture</a>
No rel="nofollow".
JP
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Easier Solution (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Easier Solution (Score:5, Funny)
Needed a digital calender, IFLed, now I've got a Google Calender setup.
Needed a new email service, IFLed, now I've got G-mail!
Needed a homepage that would host my many RSS feeds, IFLed, now I've got a Google Homepage!
Needed a desktop organizer, IFLed, now I've got Google Desktop!
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I read an article saying that Google focus grouped this issue. Most people don't even know what the button does, and hardly anybody uses it. But Google keeps it because they think it makes the front page more whimsical.
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I find it incredibly handy to be able to type in something like "youtube" or "bbc news" or even "wiki insert topic here" and have it automatically go to the correct page. Sometimes it doesn't take you where you might expect, but I'd say my overall success rate would be 95%+.
Finally (Score:4, Funny)
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hahha (Score:3, Informative)
Googlebombs... (Score:1, Funny)
Stop trying to sell me stuff. (Score:1)
Improvement? (Score:2)
And this is an improvement?!
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Alternative Page to Link To (Score:4, Insightful)
I feel a bit sad about this, since there was something wickedly fun about google bombs. But given that they subvert the intention of the search engine, it's completely understandable that they would take action against it. In fact, the surprise is that they took this long to do anything about it.
If you do the search, you'll find this page [about.com] already comes up on the first page. While it's not as clever as the original google bomb, linking 'miserable failure' to it would still express the intention of the link and could be an alternative to simply removing it.... Tough call, but something should be done with all those links, since now they are essentially 'broken' and constitute just a load more cruft in an increasingly crufty web.
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I feel a bit sad about this, since there was something wickedly fun about google bombs.
I agree that it almost doesn't seem worth it to get rid of Google-bombing. Most of the effects were pretty harmless. Like you search of "miserable failure" and you get a political figure, or you search for "worst band ever" and you get Creed. Nobody is hurt by it. Oh, what, you're offended? The internet is often an offensive place. Get over it.
What I find more worrisome is the manipulations of rankings for econom
as simple as being self-aware (Score:2)
I would guess that much of the fix is simply being a bit more self-aware in terms of ranking. If a page mentions 'google' 'googlebomb' and a short phrase in quotes, especially in close proximity, then there are two reasonable responses. One, weigh the page that claims a googlebomb a bit higher than other neutral mentions of that phrase, and two, reduce the weight of the phrase itself so it has a smaller effect when combined with other search terms. Extra points for a page that mentions multiple googlebo
Partypoopers (Score:1)
Google and racism (Score:3, Insightful)
Since there are more Jews than rabid anti-Semites in the world (I hope) I'd be tempted to just tell 'em to reverse-googlebomb, making sure you've got plenty of links to more valid pages, but a concerted (if distributed) effort to target one page is still going to put it hi
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Jews worldwide:
6 million roughly in Israel
8-10 million ? in the US
maybe 1-2 million across europe
possibly ? a couple million more spread across former soviet union, south america, middle east, etc
so let's be generous and say 20--max 25--million jews worldwide?
number of anti-semites? well, let's take the populations of egypt, iran, and palestinian territories. that's maybe...160 million? and let's say 20% of people in those countr
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Well... (Score:4, Informative)
Also "Miserable Failure" still works in MSN.
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You expected Google to fix MSN?
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not really, they have redefined Santorum (Score:2)
The funny thing about that search, is that if you google santorum, then the description of the website that google posts is not taken from the website at all, but actually says it is a satirical site:
Santorum
Satirical attempt to name the frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex after Senator Rick Santorum.
Anyone know what that is about? Did Senator Santorum pressure google to make this change, or is there some less evil explaination?
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I personally believe they really did make a manual blacklist of the googlebombs. I think that google bombs are useful too. a search for "Scientology" -> Still bings up xenu.net
Possible side-affect? (Score:2, Insightful)
Ok, so I gave it a try... (Score:2)
So...did it work or not?
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By improving our analysis of the link structure of the web, Google has begun minimizing the impact of many Googlebombs. Now we will typically return commentary, discussions, and articles about the Googlebombs instead.
So, yes, it worked.
Moo (Score:1)
Isn't this the entire methodology of Google? (Score:2)
created their PageRank algorithm.
Sure, it gets abused with GoogleBombing (although I can't say I really care) but
if this changes, doesn't PageRank as a whole change in pretty radical ways?
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uptight, much?
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created their PageRank algorithm.
Nope. It depends heavily on how many sites link to you, how highly rated those sites are, what they're about, etc. See the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org].
Liar (Score:2)
Two days ago typing in 'Liar' to Google and using 'I feel lucky' would bring you to the autobiography of Tony Blair. Not so anymore. A sad day.
Tony Blair (Score:2)
miserable failure (Score:2)
still works for me.. the only thing I see consistently scanning down the search result is
george bush!
Still serving it's purpose...
French military victories (Score:3, Insightful)
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piping (Score:2)
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Google broke my intarweb... (Score:3, Interesting)
Searching for 'worst president ever' doesn't link to the whitehouse's biography of Bush anymore...
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the way the fix was rolled out (Score:2)
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We're not playing World of Warcraft here
Google Images still correct (Score:2)
http://images.google.com/images?lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UT F-8&q=miserable%20failure&sa=N&tab=wi [google.com]
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Google Supports President Bush (Score:2)
Now that you've demonstrated you will do this, how about removing references to Iraq and Body Bags. That just upsets people.
Thanks
Karl^H^H^H^H
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