OpenOffice.org Tries to Woo Dell

Rob writes "OpenOffice.org project members have written to Dell (pdf), hoping to persuade the company to adopt OpenOffice in response to customer demand. John McCreesh, OpenOffice.org marketing project lead, writes 'Let's have a conversation about how we could build an OpenOffice.org supplied by Dell product to give your customers what they are asking for.' Demand for open source products on Dell's IdeaStorm web site prompted the letter. A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?"

default

[otacon]

It isn't on there by default, because that would mean people might actually use it...and we can't have people just running around using free software, can we?

Re:

[the_humeister]

I remember when StarOffice was installed by default on eMachines computers. No one used it. Instead they pirated MS Office and used that instead. This was just a few years ago too. So people won't necessarily use something just because it's installed by default unless they're familiar with it (ie Windows).

Re:

[otacon]

True, but if they are informed that it does the same thing then they would be more likely to use it. Example: Years back my family started using WordPerfect, because it was already there. Granted I informed them they could essentially do the same thing. But you are very right it has a lot to do with being familiar.

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

I remember when StarOffice was installed by default on eMachines computers. No one used it.

FWIW, StarOffice 5.2 was a POS with some decent technology hidden inside it monolithic interface. Its usability was utterly terrible, and was more of a chore to use than a pleasure. The work done by OpenOffice has changed all that. OOo is often just as pleasent to use, sometimes moreso than Microsoft Office is. It hasn't been growing in popularity quite as fast as FireFox has, but OOo installations are definitely beco

Re:

[the_humeister]

If you preinstalled OpenOffice, I guarantee you that most of those customers would use OOo rather than pirating Microsoft Office.

I wouldn't be too sure of that. In the past few years, Dell did come preinstalled with Wordperfect Office. No one used that either.

Re:

[westlake]

It isn't on there by default, because that would mean people might actually use it...and we can't have people just running around using free software, can we?

Corel worked damn hard to establish WordPerfect as the OEM default - and people still chose to upgrade to Microsoft Office. The "free" bundled office suite always comes across as just another throw-away.

A somewhat obvious answer:

[hhlost]

OOo is free, and therefore Dell gets no cut.

Re:A somewhat obvious answer:

[synoniem]

To be more accurate: OOo is free, and therefore Dell gets nothing but the support calls and even offshore they want to be paid.

Re:

[Vicegrip]

Dell doesn't support software. Only hardware.

Re:A somewhat obvious answer:

[babbling]

That's actually not true. If Dell were to add an option on their website saying "OpenOffice $25", they would be allowed to charge the $25 to bundle OpenOffice with a Dell computer.

Nothing in the GPL forbids Dell or anyone else for charging money for the software, so Dell wouldn't just "take a cut", they can set the price they like and take 100% of it rather than having to give some of it to Microsoft.

Re:

[Mr. Underbridge]

That's actually not true. If Dell were to add an option on their website saying "OpenOffice $25", they would be allowed to charge the $25 to bundle OpenOffice with a Dell computer.

Technically true, but to bother supporting it they'd need a given threshold of their customers to choose it, and I'm guessing they don't think they will. Might also be afraid of the public backlash when some idiot consumer reporter at a TV station breaks the big story that Dell is charging customers for something they can downl

Re:

[babbling]

Why would Dell offer support for OpenOffice? Does Dell offer support for Microsoft Office? As far as I know, Microsoft provides the support for Microsoft Office, and I can't see why Dell would offer support for OpenOffice since they have nothing to do with its development.

Re:

[kripkenstein]

As far as I know, Microsoft provides the support for Microsoft Office, and I can't see why Dell would offer support for OpenOffice since they have nothing to do with its development.

Dell might want to offer support for OpenOffice for a very good reason - because it makes them money. On the one hand selling Microsoft Office gives Dell a small profit (I presume that nearly all the money goes to Microsoft), and low support costs (they can't be zero, since people will call even if they are immediately redirec

Re:

[jesterzog]

Nothing in the GPL forbids Dell or anyone else for charging money for the software, so Dell wouldn't just "take a cut", they can set the price they like and take 100% of it rather than having to give some of it to Microsoft.

Not to mention, they can add value to OpenOffice so that the Dell version is worth paying extra for, particularly by embedding all kinds of fancy widgets to direct Dell customers to Dell's certified business partners.

Re:

[babbling]

I'm not saying what they should charge for, just making it clear that they can charge extra for including OpenOffice.

Re:A somewhat obvious answer:

[bill_mcgonigle]

Yeah, and $25 is way more expensive than MS Office, right?

MS Office is "free" with a Small Business Desktop from Dell, haven't you heard?

The sad reality seems to be that Dell thrives at Microsoft's pleasure and they'd be dumb to muck that up. To bad the DOJ had no teeth.

Re:

[Ninwa]

The discount vendor has an insentive in offering you these products, because that's the sort of market they're reaching out to (the technically savy). Dell already has a large enough market and it's a market that would likely be confused if they recieved OOo and not MS Office.

Just my 2g.

Re:

[Darundal]

Not really. They could advertise that even their lowest-end, cheapest systems came with a full, Office-compatable application suite. Of course, they could then extoll the advantages of MS Office over OOo on the page where you pick it, which might actually increase sales of Office, but in the end, the user would still be getting a better deal and Dell would still be getting, at the very least, further reinforcement of their reputation (deserved or not) for providing good systems at low prices.

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

I just went to Dell's site and scoped out their offerings. Even in a $359 package, Microsoft Works is "included in [the] price". That package does not include Microsoft Word. To get Word, you have to upgrade to a $79 Works Suite. Obviously, Dell could offer OpenOffice as an alternative to their default Works package and pocket the difference.

Of course, I have a sneaky suspicion that the minimal Works package is an attempt to get users to purchase Microsoft Word at a minimum. They probably hope to convince c

Re:

[bberens]

I just went to Dell's site and scoped out their offerings. Even in a $359 package, Microsoft Works is "included in [the] price". That package does not include Microsoft Word. To get Word, you have to upgrade to a $79 Works Suite. Obviously, Dell could offer OpenOffice as an alternative to their default Works package and pocket the difference.

Of course, I have a sneaky suspicion that the minimal Works package is an attempt to get users to purchase Microsoft Word at a minimum. They probably hope to convince consumers to purchase Microsoft Office Professional "because they might need it". Obviously, having a full office suite available at no charge might cut into those profits. Especially since OOo has a much better reputation than the WordPerfect, Claris Works, and Lotus Suite products that PC producers used to bundle. So they're relying on Microsoft to provide the (if you'll excuse the colorful language) "shitty" office suite to convince consumers to upgrade.

You're completely missing the potential that Microsoft pays Dell to include Works on each machine as cheap advertising for Office.

Re:

[AKAImBatman]

You're completely missing the potential that Microsoft pays Dell to include Works on each machine as cheap advertising for Office.

Am I? You're saying that getting a large cut of each Office sale is not "payment" enough?

Step 1: Offer up "Microsoft Works" suite at little or no cost to the manufacturer.
Step 2: Downplay the effectiveness of Works in favor of the expensive Microsoft Office Suite.
Step 3: Thereby convince the consumer to upgrade.
Step 4: Profit!!!

(For you Slashdot purists, you can add "Step 3.5: ??

Re:

[babbling]

Most people would pay something for it.

I wouldn't, because I know how to install it myself, but if I didn't know how to install it myself I'd be willing to pay at least half of what Microsoft Office would cost me.

Huh...

[Frosty Piss]

This is news? Do you think that maybe Dell already knows about OpenOffice? A letter is going to swing the deal? Not likely. Dell is only vaguely interested in Linux, and there are still questions about if that is just the standard ploy to get a better Microsoft deal.

By the way, I've sent Dell a letter about a little time management application I've been working on for a few years. I'm expecting a reply!!!

Re:

[zappepcs]

Whatever happens, this will raise public awareness of OOo by some measure. If only 15% of the public suddenly finds out that there is free software available that does all they need to do, it's a good thing for all. It will also help point out the situation that makes it cheaper for Dell to preload windows than to give away free software. Hopefully consumers will begin to question that and bring to light what MS is still doing to hamstring an entire industry.

Re:

[SCHecklerX]

Yup!

When my dad bought a new computer, he asked me about buying Microsoft office (or pirating a copy). Instead, I set up OOo for him. He's really happy with it. Open Office shines even better when you aren't using it only to view Microsoft Word docs, but rather authoring from it directly.

He thanked me and notified me that he loves OO, and has no need to use Microsoft Office.

For me, the killer app in open office is OODraw. I've used this for creating cards at christmas, and most recently to create a CD L

Re:

[Frosty Piss]

Whatever happens, this will raise public awareness of OOo by some measure.

I'm not sure how you can say that, since if Dell does not include OpenOffice, which is very likly, "public awareness" via the Dell vector will remail the same, which is none.

Dell is not interested in OpenOffice. Dell is a for-profit business. OpenOffice offers them nothing. In Dell's mind, it is not a "value added feature."

Here's why. Very few Dell customers actually want Linux. Legions of Dell customers want Windows. Legions of Del

Re:

[zappepcs]

Don't be offended here, but let me tell you what is really ignorant about what you have said.

>Here's why. Very few Dell customers actually want Linux.
Because relatively few people know about Linux and what it can mean to them. They only know windows because Apple and MS are the ones with $$$ television advertisements.

>Legions of Dell customers want Windows.
Because relatively few people know about Linux and what it can mean to them. They only know windows because Apple and MS are the ones with $$$ tele

Here's why

[Asylumn]

why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?

Because then customers would have less of an incentive to purchase MS Office. This gives MS a huge incentive to pressure Dell, et al, to not offer alternatives on a windows machine.

Seems fairly obvious to me.

Re:

[Volante3192]

Incidentally, when I got my Dell laptop (...4ish years ago I think) my options on office software were a Corel WordPerfect Suite, MS Works and MS Office variants.

I had to pick one of them, and the free option was Corel.

Having not needed a new laptop since then I haven't bothered to see if they changed that. Although by the sounds of the discussion, appears it might have.

Upon first glance

[oskard]

I thought it said:
"OpenOffice.org Tries to Doo Well"

Umm...

[faloi]

why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?"

Because your average home user buying an off the shelf PC (regardless of who it's from) has no idea what Open Office is. Even if you provided it as an option, given the choice between a (seemingly) free version of some MS product and Open Office, the average customer would take Open Office. Throw in the bit about most customers expecting to get support from the PC manufacturer for everything that's on there, and you have to talk about training your tech support folks on how to handle Open Office support calls.

Tech savy users and corporate customers are likely to blow the default image away and replace it with something tweaked to their choosing, so you wouldn't be saving them a tremendous amount of time by having it installed anyway.

Re:

[bigdavex]

Because your average home user buying an off the shelf PC (regardless of who it's from) has no idea what Open Office is.

Dell has an option to include Corel Snapfire Plus. I sincerely doubt that most people have heard of it. Yet there it is.

Even if you provided it as an option, given the choice between a (seemingly) free version of some MS product and Open Office, the average customer would take Open Office.

I doubt that. I think most people would perceive that buying the MS product would make it most like

Re:

[owlnation]

Because your average home user buying an off the shelf PC (regardless of who it's from) has no idea what Open Office is.

I'm not sure what a home user needs with any office package. Perhaps that's part of the issue. I see Open Office's main potential customers in the short term being small and medium sized businesses. Then Corporations once smaller companies had been converted.

Large companies, will get MS Office discounted when they sold their souls setting up their Intranet. No-one much outside of a co

And a somewhat obvious answer already exists

[Jimmy King]

A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?"

I would say for the same (or at least closely related and similar) reason that PC's come with and the majority of people want/keep using Windows over other OS choices which are arguably better and just as easy or easier to use. It's what people are familiar with. I'm pretty confident your average joe on the street has heard of MS Office. That same guy probably has not heard of OpenOffice

Re:

[mgpeter]

On top of that, it's still not 100% compatible with MS Office... I frequently have to slightly adjust things converting between OO's .odf and Office's .doc and have had some features of Excel spreadsheets not work in OO. That alone is going to make it unacceptable for use on projects for school or work which are then going to probably be used in MS Office.

Stop Using the Proprietary MS Formats - The vast majority of people complaining about OOo complain that it doesn't open MS Documents 100% Accurately.

Re:

[Toby_Tyke]

Stop Using the Proprietary MS Formats - The vast majority of people complaining about OOo complain that it doesn't open MS Documents 100% Accurately. If you would simply start to use the default file format - ODF you won't have this problem.

Maybe our places of employment use MS formats. Maybe our customers use MS formats. Most people do. If your customers demand you send them MS office files, what are you going to do?

I often work from home. Without MS software on my home machine, I would not be able t

Re:

[Jimmy King]

As soon as you convince my employer, my school, and the local IT headhunters to start using OO instead of MS Word, I'll get right on that. Until then, I'll write anything I need to at home in OO and save to Word format, then take a few seconds at work or school to make sure the formatting is correct before sending it off to anyone of any importance. Unfortunately, we can't expect the general public to be willing to go through those same extra steps just to use a piece of software they've never heard of.

Because they can't up-sell you

[xenocide2]

It's not about customer value -- anyone asking for OpenOffice already knows about it and can easily install it. Dell's strategy is to make the cheapest PC's around to bring in customers, then make it as easy as possible to spend more than that. They are not the Wal-Mart of computing. A 30 day Office trial pays Dell. Even so, they want you to buy Office -- they get more money that way. OO.o has no such financial arrangement, and it would be tricky for Dell to attempt to charge customers for it.

Re:

[kripkenstein]

it would be tricky for Dell to attempt to charge customers for [OpenOffice]

Tricky how? Legally there is no issue here. The only thing they need to do is set up the support for OpenOffice, as far as I can tell. Or am I missing something else that you intended?

Spoonerism!

[sootman]

Am I the only one who read that and saw "OpenOffice.org Tries to Do Well"?

May I sew you to your sheets? [wikipedia.org]

Duh.

[bannerman]

It's simple. Dell computers already come bundled with a more polished suite for free. It may not be as powerful or feature complete but there it is.

"Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD [Included in Price]"

Re:

[CastrTroy]

Included in price does not mean free. If they had a free alternative, how much would they charge for MS works?

A somewhat obvious answer is given.

[mwvdlee]

A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?

Because Microsoft will give less license discount if they did.

Makes sense from Dell's perspective

[Experiment 626]

If Dell charged for OpenOffice, open-source advocates would scream bloody murder (OMG it's supposed to be free, why does choosing OpenOffice add $50 to the price of a PC?) On the other hand, customers expect whatever comes with their computer to be supported, which costs money. There's also the opportunity cost from OpenOffice cannibalizing sales of the much more profitable MS-Office. Also, they would hurt their relationship with Microsoft. So they can either give it away and lose money, or sell it for

Re:

[pedestrian crossing]

...customers expect whatever comes with their computer to be supported, which costs money.

Hogwash!

Try calling Dell and see how much support you get for MS Works.

If it starts up, they consider their job done.

If it doesn't start up, they will tell you to wipe and reload from the image.

If it still doesn't start up, they will RMA the computer and send you a new one.

That is the complete extent of the application support you will get from Dell.

The "it costs Dell money to support OOO/Linux" argument is a ti

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[mgblst]

Don't worry, I think they are preparing a Letter to Apple as well, right after they finish on the ones to Amiga and the Acorn Arhcimedes. They will really be pulling in the numbers once they convince those 3, probably won't even bother answering the phone calles from Dell.

Obvious?

[east coast]

A somewhat obvious question is raised: why isn't OpenOffice already available by default on new PC's and Workstations?

Obvious? What's obvious is that Dell can make a profit from MS Office. Frankly, if I were a business I would look to the profit aspect first.

Also consider tech support. I would think that Dell is going to get more support from MS than the OO people when it comes down to wide spread issues involving their product. Tech support is doubtlessly a large chunk of Dell's overhead. The better support from their software vendors the less that overhead will be. That's a big plus and anyone who's taken business-101 type classes can tell you this.

Not to mention that free software still has a stigma about it. This isn't likely to go away anytime soon.

Re:

[ivan256]

Not to mention that free software still has a stigma about it. This isn't likely to go away anytime soon.

In technical terms, that stigma is called "Zero marketing budget".

Re:

[pembo13]

It seems to me that Dell is allowed to sell vanilla OO.org for any price they want.

Yeah sure...

[Bullfish]

That will go over with Dell like a pregnant woman doing a pole vault... No percentage (that they would get with any other commercial office product) means no profit...

This WOULD have made sense last year...

[ProppaT]

It would have made since for PC builders to supply OO on new computers last year. It would have given the user added value for free. It's a great suite of tools. Even though I have Office at work, there's I still use OO for certain applications.

The problem with OO right now is that, even though OO is a great substitute and can use Office files...it CANT use Office 2007 files. People are going to be saving files with .docx by default in 2007. This creates a huge compatibility void until someone creates an open source DTD for OO to open and render .docx files. No matter how good OO gets, Office is THE standard. If it can't keep up with Office compatibility (and I'm sure it eventually will catch up), it's about as useful as WordPerfect (i.e., it's fine as long as you don't have to use anybody elses files).

Support

[eck011219]

Not only are all the financial and business reasons offered by readers here probably completely true, I'd bet they also don't want the support calls. It doesn't matter what you tell people about what you will or won't support -- I would imagine Dell gets hundreds of calls a day about something not working right in the pre-installed copy of Word someone bought with their Dell machine. I wouldn't think it would be worth it to either train support staff to provide basic support for OpenOffice or even to spend

Submission title

[hey!]

Sounds like the lead in to one of those unspeakable folk songs where every other line is "hey, nonny,nonny oh".

here's a possibility

[malevolentjelly]

Maybe because Microsoft Office is a superior product. They don't offer beta versions of MS Office either. If customers want to use OpenOffice they can download. In most cases, it's got critical deficiencies that will confuse most customers. I've tried the ol' OpenOffice switcheroo on non-open-source-enthusiasts before. They were basically confused and frustrated with OpenOffice and why it didn't do the same things.

Microsoft Office is a lot more intelligent than people give it credit for.

Re:

[nagora]

If customers want to use OpenOffice they can download.

But they won't, regardless of quality. If users just downloaded the best free option off the net then no one would ever have to design their webpages to allow for IE's quirks ever again.

MS's entire business is founded on the fact that 90%+ of people use whatever software that comes with their machine; Office suites, OS's, browsers, whatever.

In most cases, it's got critical deficiencies that will confuse most customers.

Deficiencies or differences (

OpenOffice bundled on new PCs

[Yaddoshi]

The company I work for always adds OpenOffice to every new PC sold by default, because getting OEM Office drives the price up by almost $200 (and our price is already higher than Office Depot, Office Max, Best Buy and Walmart on comparable PCs of the main brands). I find, however, that people who are comfortable using MS Office don't like OpenOffice, just like people who are comfortable with Corel WordPerfect typically don't like MS Word. You like the program you are most familiar with, even if other programs do the same task better. Nobody likes having to learn to do the same thing in a different manner. I still tie my shoes the same way I taught myself to as a child, even though the normal way to tie one's shoes tends to keep them tied longer than my method.

With that in mind I find it highly amusing that MS Office 2007 requires a substantial learning curve before most users can become efficient with it. Nice job yet again, Microsoft. Justify the massive pricetag of your newest product that is nothing more than a minor upgrade with a facelift by including an interface overhaul.

I have customers that are still using MS Office 97, purchased almost ten years ago. Why? Because for them, it still works just fine.

Still works fine

[symbolset]

I have customers that are still using MS Office 97, purchased almost ten years ago. Why? Because for them, it still works just fine.

It still works fine because, despite what everyone is trying to sell you, methods of creating and dealing with "documents" haven't changed in many years. The feature list wars were over a decade ago, and everybody won.

Unfortunately for you and software vendors, until they get you to buy it by subscription they have to reengineer the whole thing every few years to get you to

Considering that Dell already ...

[Nom du Keyboard]

Considering that Dell already loads the latest version of MSOffice on their Dimensions even when you don't order it, and it takes up disc space and nags you to activate it in trial mode, or buy and put in your key, and causes update hassles with your older, legal version of MSOffice that you transfered from your old machine to you new one, hell yes, Dell could afford to include OO on the hard drive.

how about StarOffice?

[codemachine]

Wouldn't StarOffice from Sun make a lot more sense in this case? Dell can take a cut of the price, and Sun provides support for the product.

Re:Why?

[mungtor]

MS Office isn't installed on a new PC by default either. Even at an OEM type discount, it isn't free.

OpenOffice is freely available to anyone with an internet connection, and Dell simply doesn't see the business case for distributing and supporting it. Even if they tried to distribute with a support disclaimer there would still be a lot of calls to support about it. Also, Dell would have to distribute CDs with the source code since OpenOffice is GPL'd, etc, etc. None of it is a show-stopper, but why go through all the hassle with no reward? Distributing free software that they don't want to support (or don't think they can sell support on) doesn't make sense for Dell.

Yeah, it would be nice, but warm feelings and the respect of the /. community doesn't keep the lights on.

Re:

[CastrTroy]

First they could just include the source on the hard drive. Or even better, they could just put up an FTP site where the source is available. It wouldn't even have to be high traffic. I seriously doubt more than 1% of people who buy Dell computers are going to want to download the source for OpenOffice. Nowhere in the GPL does it say you have to include the source with the product, just that you have to make it available. You can even make someone send you an email/snailmail, and charge them for a CD a

Re:

[Richard_at_work]

The OOo source code set comes to 259MB - thats an extra 259MB Dell has to copy, an extra 259MB that is wasted on the customer hard disk, or 259MB that Dell has to account for in its bandwidth build if it supplies an FTP server.

In short, its an extra hassle that Dell would have to satisfy.

Re:

[j-pimp]

The OOo source code set comes to 259MB - thats an extra 259MB Dell has to copy, an extra 259MB that is wasted on the customer hard disk, or 259MB that Dell has to account for in its bandwidth build if it supplies an FTP server.

In short, its an extra hassle that Dell would have to satisfy.

On an 80 gig hard drive that 259 megs is trivial. Considering that the machines are probably RIS installed, the time to copy over another 259 megs is trivial, and dell has the option of putting thes ource on ftp or cd as well.

The average user that would use this, is one that went with the Corel office package previously. So the bottom line question for Dell is how much money they stand to lose for not reselling Corel office, and if they can recover the income lost by not including a demo of Corel Snap

Re:

['nother poster]

They only have to make their source changes available. If Dell doesn't change the source, which I would bet they wouldn't, all they have to do is point a URL/shortcut to openoffice.org to make the source available as far as I can see.

Re:

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Why?

"You'd Do Well to Woo Dell!"

Re:

[CastrTroy]

Like I said, the traffic could be minimal. They could even charge for the cost of the bandwidth. I'm sure they could support the traffic they'd generate on at $7.95 a month dreamhost account. The expense would be minimal.

Re:

[Richard_at_work]

Its not just the bandwidth, its the entire supportive costs of ensuring the source-binary version sync, ensuring its available, pointing people to the right place et al. Its all a cost that needs to be accounted for.

Re:

[MightyYar]

They zip it up in an archive and treat it just like every other support file on their site. They have a whole system in place to do exactly this with all of their drivers and documentation. I can't imagine how it would be anything but trivial.

More of an issue is why should they? What competitive advantage does this offer them? They can't offer it cheaper than their rivals - it's free! It wouldn't even add to the number when they say "over $1200 worth of software included free". They'd be stuck with support

Re:

[shaitand]

Actually as long as they distribute the stock openoffice they can just point customers to an existing repository.

Re:

[Richard_at_work]

Actually under the LGPL they cant.

Re:

[CrazedWalrus]

Any particular reason they can't just send them to the Open Office ftp site? If they just install the vanilla product, there's nothing to do. Source is available, and probably only patches done by Dell that aren't contributed upstream would have to be made available. Soooo.... where's the problem again?

Re:Why?

[aputerguy]

It's obvious -- Dell makes more money *selling* MS Office then *giving* away OpenOffice.

Even when the customer doesn't buy MS Office up front, you can be sure that MS pays Dell for every "60-day trial" version which comes installed on most PCs nowadays. Even if MS didn't unfairly retaliate, giving away OO would take away from subscribers buying or upgrading to paid MS Office so Dell would inevitably get less of a commission back from MS.

On the other hand adding a preloaded OO is unlikely to shift share to Dell so not much upside -- particularly, since the relatively small minority of users who consider this as a factor could easily download it themselves.

Plus supporting OO would add support costs.

So, while I would love personally to see more OO, I don't see the business case from Dell's perspective

Re:

[shaitand]

MS Office is $200+ depending on what version you purchase and that is more than your average bear wants to pay to type letters. The business case for this is obvious but doesn't factor in to new school thinking.

The doesn't really help dell gain new customers directly. Adding OO is a cheap way to retain happy and loyal customers and generate positive word of mouth. Dell spends millions on marketing and advertising to gain new customers. Having a full featured office suite included with the system goes a long

Re:

[kripkenstein]

It's obvious -- Dell makes more money *selling* MS Office then *giving* away OpenOffice.

As mentioned in other threads, this isn't obvious at all. Dell don't need to give OpenOffice away, they can charge for it.

Re:

[manno]

Isn't Dell allowed to charge people for the support? Can't they charge people like $10, or $20 bucks for "preloaded OO.o", option? I would think MS was crazy if they are paying anywhere near $1 per system, but I could be wrong. I say this because I'd think that the number of people that get the 60 day trial, and then pirate MS Office greatly outnumber the people that get the 60 day trial, and then buy MS Office.

An important question is this, how many people are going to stick with the OO.o instal, and not s

Re:

[truthsearch]

Branding. I've been saying for years that Dell and those who compete with Dell could take a Linux distro and brand it with their logo. If they make their own distro or even just their own version of OpenOffice they can co-brand and it and get more customer loyalty. Also, if Dell is in more control of the whole package (instead of just re-distributing Microsoft software) they can produce a better product. That's part of Apple's niche, but someone like Dell could easily do the same by using open source.

Re:

[rbochan]

...Dell simply doesn't see the business case for distributing and supporting it...

So Dell provides support for that stupid Weatherbug that they include(d)? That godawful McAfee "security suite" they include? That evil Sonic bloatware? Quicktime? RealPlayer?
No?
I didn't think so...

Re:

[Aladrin]

No, instead Dell has deals with those companies to do the support themselves. If Dell pays some company to support Open Office for them, it's no longer free to Dell. If they don't, they're distributing software that their customers have no support for.

Re:

[billcopc]

You hit some often-ignored but obvious points there, but I'm afraid it's a near-miss. The #1 reason why Dell will not supply OpenOffice isn't the cost of shipping media, nor the support nightmare that would inevitably ensue. The #1 reason is because OpenOffice would compete with MS Office.

If the average joe's computer came with a free word processor and spreadsheet, they no longer need to spend $250 and up on MS Office. Not only would Dell lose money from those lost software sales (which are far more pro

Re:

[jedidiah]

...except Mensa is a matter of merit that even a poor family can aspire to be included in. "Pay to play" and "old boy relationships" on the other hand are the exact opposite of the sort of meritocracy that Mensa is supposed to represent.

In your rush to craft a bad analogy, you captured precisely why it is that those of us that gravitate to the notion of meritocracy find "selling shelf space" so galling.

The open source crowd isn't complaining that their retarded child can't get into Mensa. They are complaini

Re:Why?

[CaptainTux]

<i>Even if they tried to distribute with a support disclaimer there would still be a lot of calls to support about it. Also, Dell would have to distribute CDs with the source code since OpenOffice is GPL'd, etc, etc.</i>

1: So Dell gets a support call about Open Office. They handle it the same way they handle most technical questions about MS Office: go to the software vendor. Problem solved. No additional work required.

2: Why would Dell need to distribute CD's with source on them? Nowhere does the GPL even mention that you have to do this. All they have to do is include a piece of paper in each box that says "Want the Open Office source? Email: [e-mail]", or set up an FTP site, or make someone mail in a source request form, etc, etc. Problem solved.

Re:

[westlake]

They handle it the same way they handle most technical questions about MS Office: go to the software vendor. Problem solved. No additional work required.

Problem not solved.

Take a look at the MS Office home pages. Tutorials. Case studies. Templates, clip art and tons of other resources. Easy on the eye, polished and professional. Then mouse over to OpenOffice.org.

Back to the Future, circa 1993.

Re:

[shaitand]

If they are distributing the stock openoffice then they can point to existing repositories. They don't need to setup their own or pay for the bandwidth.

'with no measurable increase in revenue'

There would be an increase in revenue but I couldn't begin to imagine how you would measure it. Including a full featured office suite that doesn't carry a ridiculous price tag that is half again the cost of the machine would go a long way toward generating word of mouth and customer retention.

Then again, all advertisi

Re:

[joto]

Open office would be like windows, something dell provides and thus their responsibility.

Are you trying to tell me that Dell takes responsibility for Windows. Last time I checked, even Microsoft wouldn't take responsibility for that! Look at the EULA...

2. The source is the major cost. Clearly the FTP server is not free, the bandwidth is not free some one needs to reply to the email address.

Look, Dell is huge. Running an FTP-site is something an individual like you and me can afford. In no way it will

Re:

[cyclop]

OpenOffice is freely available to anyone with an internet connection, and Dell simply doesn't see the business case for distributing and supporting it.

Yes, but how many know about it? As for the marketing, why shouldn't a "Complete office suite included -for only 5$ more!" work? They would even profit from it if they charge a minimal amount.

Re:

[danpsmith]

Also, Dell would have to distribute CDs with the source code since OpenOffice is GPL'd, etc, etc. None of it is a show-stopper, but why go through all the hassle with no reward? Distributing free software that they don't want to support (or don't think they can sell support on) doesn't make sense for Dell.

I'm actually kind of here to moderate, but, what about the reward of more customers? You know, I bet a lot of people aren't particularly happy that you don't get any real office software when you get you

Re:Why?

[AKAImBatman]

could it be because everyone uses Office and it's proprietary formats?

Yet they offer the incompatible (and amusingly named) Microsoft Works package. If they can offer Microsoft Works by default, why can't they offer OpenOffice as an option?

I believe that is the point the author is trying to make.

Re:

[Kelz]

My theory is that Dell gets a lower OEM price on windows because they bundle MSW with their PCs (and what is MS works really besides a promotion to buy office?). It could be that any money they save by bundling Open Office may be lost because they stopped bundling MSW with Windows.

Re:Why?

[Hatta]

The first thing I did when I got my dell laptop was flash the HD and reinstall an OEM copy of windows.

Your Dell laptop came with a solid state hard drive?

Re:

[zaydana]

I know i'm going to get modded down for this but... if you have the wisdom to use linux, why are you using a dell laptop? Those things have precision engineering aimed at getting them to die 1 month after the warranty expires :-/

Re:

[tomstdenis]

Mine has been running fine [in Linux] for a year now. It seems like a solid design. Can't really complain about it.

In fact it works better in Linux than Windows as I can't find the damn Intel HDA drivers for this thing. Sound and wifi work out of the box with the Linux kernel.

My first laptop was a Compaq [forget the model] Athlon 1.8Ghz. It too was solid. I dropped it [in a metal case] twice, left it in the cold [in transit] and even poured about 100mL of water on it [by accident] and it kept going [af

Re:

[Zonk (troll)]

Finding drivers for Windows is often a PITA. However, if you're doing a clean install you should look into DriverPacks [driverpacks.net]. This includes nearly every driver available for Windows XP. I use this with RyanVM Update Packs [ryanvm.net] to integrate all updates, a patched uxtheme.dll, themes that aren't so Fisher Price, replace notepad with Notepad2, etc. Works great.

Re:

[petabyte]

I don't think that is the case. I've had 3 dell laptops - 2 of them latitudes I bought at the end of corporate leases so they were behind the times when I got them. A Pentium, a Pentium 2, and now I have the ultra-cheap B130 Inspiron. It was 500 bucks shipped to my door. I, like tom, took the liberty of booting with a ubuntu disk and dd'ing the partition table into oblivion. My difference is that I'm not running windows at all on the laptop - it runs kubuntu feisty without issue at the moment. I also r

Re:

[Nerd4News]

Hmm top secret ... could it be because everyone uses Office and it's proprietary formats? That's why.

Or maybe it's because Dell can't make any money off OO?

Re:

[dubbreak]

They CAN charge for OOo and they DON'T HAVE TO SUPPORT IT.

How hard is that for people to get into their heads?! I bet they can eaasily charge as much if not more than what MS pays them to put that 30 day Word trial on there. For Word MS does the support, for OOc guess who would do the support? I'll give you a few hints, not Dell or MS.

Of course reality is that Dell would at best use this as flexing power to get either higher discounts on MS software or to get more $$ per Word trial. I don't think you'l

Re:

[edmicman]

Same old same old. What I don't get is why people think you have to run the preloaded crap anyways. The first thing I did when I got my dell laptop was flash the HD and reinstall an OEM copy of windows.

As is the case for most tech geeks, and probably most everyone on Slashdot. If I don't build it myself, it gets wiped clean and installed with what I want. But Joe Average Consumer doesn't get a shiny new PC and then wipe the drive clean, reinstalling with the other copy of Windows that he has around.

Re:

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

Draw isn't very useful, except in a few limited cases. Don't try the database app either, its not ready for prime time.

Stick to writer, calc, and impress. Those are the good ones. 80% of people who use MS office just use word, excel, and powerpoint. Not many spring for the deluxe version that would include visio.

ammendment

[Bill, Shooter of Bul]

open office's base ( the database app I just slammed) is getting better all the time. Its not very user friendly, but its the closest app I've seen to access. Soon they'll hit access 2 usability ( which is more than I ever expected of it).

Not that I'll ever use it.

Re:

[KiahZero]

Draw is wonderful for flowcharts and other diagrams.