Google Earth Highlights Darfur 328
jc42 writes "Google Earth, in cooperation with the US Holocaust Memorial Museum now presents details of the growing disaster in Darfur. They give a virtual tour of the area, with details of events in many villages in the words of local residents. So in addition to their "Do no evil" motto, they apparently now have a policy of exposing evil. Needless to say, the Sudan government didn't exactly cooperate with this project."
And Irak? (Score:2, Interesting)
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anti-christ (Score:4, Funny)
Re:anti-christ (Score:4, Funny)
Amazing (Score:4, Interesting)
It speaks it's own language.
I'm not good enough at English to find the right words (English is not my primary language).
However, this is an amazing tool, which other could use to document the horrors of history. Study the Scandinavian history 500 years ago, and you can make a similar map over the southern tip of present Sweden. Check it out for yourself: http://www.scania.org/facts/poster/index.html [scania.org]
Maybe som Palestinian group can make a similar map over, what Israel did to many Palestinian villages from 1947 until today. That would start up a *real* debate, and hopefully we can end the bloodshed there, that once raged Scandinavia.
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There can be no real debate about the subject. There is only the Concensus, and anyone outside the Consensus is a troll.
Re:Amazing (Score:4, Insightful)
Actually, here in the US, we do things a little differently. We don't like to wait for the actual THEFT of ice cream:
"We don't have any proof, but we think you, (insert country name here), are building a weapon of ice cream destruction. See, our satellite photos show all this activity going on outside of a building in the north-east corner of your country. That is obviously related to the construction of an ice cream destruction device. And, we hear a rumor that you tried to steal yellowcake ice cream from Nigeria. As a result of what we THINK you are going to do, we will now invade you."
Just look at our recent success stories.
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Since when has a 'preventive' war ever been deemed appropriate by someone other than the person(s) starting the war?
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The issue in Palestine/Israel is amazingly simple in many ways, if
Typical (Score:2)
You pick 1947 as the date. Why not 1945, because that might just show what arab/muslim forces did to the jews who had lived there for hundred of years? And why just that region, why not the entire middle east, so that it would also show the larger number of jews who were driven from arab/muslim countries, some of whom resetled in british controlled areas (what Israel was before it became independent) and of whom nobody seems to speak. If palestinians have the right to return why not jews who fled from arab
The Weasel Rule (Score:5, Interesting)
Sagan then defines, what he would call, "The Weasel Rule". Be nice to strong people and be a jerk to weak people. Google caved in easily to strong governments like China and is currently exposing the evil in Darfar. So looks like, Google's motto is "Follow the Weasel Rule" not "Do no evil".
i agree to a point (Score:2)
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golden rule (Score:2)
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When it comes to actions that bear on harm and benefit to self, people are very poor judges. They overestimate harm to themselves and underestimate harm to others. You cut me of in traffic, I feel threatened, so I pull my gun out and shoot you. It's self defense, right? You look at my girl, I beat the crap out of you. Sounds even to me.
It happe
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Yahoo (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re:Yahoo (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm a centrist Democrat, but I was cautiously in favor of the Iraq war. I didn't believe that Saddam was a threat, or that he was linked to Al Qaeda, but I believed that, where possible, American military power should be used to make the world a better place. I figured, if invading resulted in fewer Iraqi deaths than not invading, then even if the reasons for going to war were bullshit, it was arguably the right thing to do. I don't buy into the knee-jerk liberal sentiment that war is always wrong: intervening in Kosovo, for instance, killed a lot of people, but otherwise it probably would have been a bloodbath. There was even a term for people like me: "liberal hawk", leftists who were in favor of using American military power abroad, where it had the potential to make things better.
But Bush and his hacks have basically discredited that idea. They've given ammunition to the far left, who maintain that war is always the wrong option (war is always a bad option, but sometimes not going to war is worse). They've given ammunition to the isolationists to the right, who say that even though we have the power to change the world for the better, we shouldn't try. He's destroyed the U.S. army, such that even if we wanted to intervene in places like Darfur, we'd have a much harder time. And for the next generation, any time the U.S. tries to apply pressure to human rights violators, they'll look back at us and say, "what about Abu Ghraib, and Guantanamo? Who are you Americans to lecture us about human rights and due process?"
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Censorship (Score:5, Interesting)
In a similar area, Slashdot posted before about maps overAmerican strip mining [betanews.com]. Others have collected other links to deforestation, coral reefs, etc [gearthblog.com].
Recent news Microsoft will be highlighting Darfur (Score:2, Funny)
Realistically (Score:4, Interesting)
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Got anything to back that up with (all parties, not just the arab league)? Or are you talking out of your ass?
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Well, this is not surprising... Darfur is close to some nice oil resources. Just like the US helped and liberated Iraq, there are good reason to help the nice people of Darfur.
If you want to convince everybody that some US action is urgently needed in Darfur, why not start by showing images of the war that is taking place there? Sure, there is a war there and as with all wars, it is not nice at all. But calling it a genocide is going a bit far. And Darfur is unfortu
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Indeed, six months after the fall of Saddam The Spectator (a broadly right wing, in the UK s
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Worse yet, if we were to intervene in Darfur, as soon as we get there the left would insist that we leave. It's a lose lose proposition, especially for the poor bastards that a
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Huh? (Score:2)
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Yes, and in much the same fashion, the US is guilty of massive genocide because it has an arsenal of nuclear weapons, definitely a tool for the future nuclear holocaust.
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Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
As for collecting data: it is not evil until they use it for Big Brotherish purposes. Like fire, data is neutral. You can use it to warm yourself, or to burn heretics. If Google start selling personal data, or using it in house for intrusive purposes, they are not guilty of evil. Not all people who buy guns do so to shoot their wives.
Re:"Do no evil" (Score:4, Funny)
Seems to me that's the more efficient use of fire
Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
Google is doing good by raising awareness of the atrocities being committed in Darfur. Yes, they do evil. They're a friggin' corporation and they exist to make money; no one is a saint. But they are doing some good here.
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I did not say it is OK. It is a civil war, not genocide. War is not ok. Particular twist of Western media labeling it a genocide and de facto undermining the Sudanese government tells me that there is something else behind recent hoopla.
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Europe and US had much more common than Europe and communist ideology of Russians.
Intervention in the Sudan of US will be exactly the opposite type of intevention because Western ideology is foreign.
You are not that naive. You KNOW how Sudanese, Somalis, Egyptians feel towards West.
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Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Interesting)
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WTF are you talking about? What market? Google is trying to increase awareness and you (and others) say it's a bad thing? What is wrong with you people?
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Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Insightful)
On what planet does this statement make any kind of sense? You're really going to have to back up that reasoning if you want anyone to take you at all seriously.
Re:"Do no evil" (Score:5, Funny)
Game. Set. And Match. (Score:2)
Re:Darfur (Score:5, Interesting)
maybe genocide is the wrong word but hundreds of thousands dying and even more fleeing for their lives and living in refuge-camps is not something that is pushed by western governments.
There never was a reason to televise some Africans kill other Africans (in fact one party consists of muslim nomads)
To be specific the whole Darfur crisis is allready several years old most people don't give a damn because there is no oil.
I'm not saying Bush should have led the world in an war in Sudan but it would have probably been more usefull (not counting the oil) and saved more lives.
I'm sorry for not being very eloquent.
But the bottomline is this, the more people know what is going on out there the bigger the chance that something gets done.
Re:Darfur (Score:4, Informative)
OH and don't forget the most important part (Score:4, Interesting)
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It's ARAB muslims (the "Janjaweed") on horses that kill the non-ARAB BLACK "abdels" (black slaves), who are both muslim and christian. The government of Sudan describes it as a jihad, and as a result, is getting support, people and weapons, from muslims world-wide.
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Obviously, you are trolling.
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Slashdot is all about opinion. But, I wouldn't call you a Troll if 1) You used less inflammatory language and 2) If you included at least a few links that supported your claim. I could easily point you to about 2,000 links supporting the majority point of view. I want to see a few links (outside of the Sudanese government web-site) where there is another point of view.
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Re:Darfur (Score:4, Insightful)
A better comparison would be the killing of native Americans throughout the 19th century, where hundreds of thousands of civilians were killed and many more displaced from their homes. While the native Americans certainly tried to fight back (as I'm sure the civilians of Darfur are trying to do against the Janjaweed soldiers), it was largely a slaughter due to the overwhelming technology, tactics, numbers, and government support of the United States military.
And guess what? It was wrong then, and such things are still wrong now.
If the independent Islamic government of Sudan doesn't wish to be undermined, it should stop supporting the extermination of civilians and actually resolve this "internal conflict". They do nothing to prevent it - to the contrary, they support the killing - and that's why much of the West is pushing the issue.
Re:Darfur (Score:5, Informative)
If you've got a plan, you should share it. But for a lot of people, it will be a tough sell. Pretty much everyone is aware of what happened when the US intervened in Iraq. Many people still remember Somalia. Why would this turn out differently if "someone put an end to it"? That's a serious question.
Bosnia a good counterexample (Score:2)
Obviously the situation is complicated, but a lack of intervention will ultimately be worse for the region than any meddling of "imperialist powers". It's really tragic what's happening there and the idea that not doing anything is a better alternative "because of Iraq" is a sad approach.
It's intellectually repugnant, as well.
Re:Bosnia a good counterexample (Score:4, Insightful)
About a quarter million of serbs were forced to move after the end of "humanitarian bombings" ("After the war ended, the UN Security Council passed Resolution 1244 that placed Kosovo under transitional UN administration (UNMIK) and authorized KFOR, a NATO-led peacekeeping force. Almost immediately returning Kosovo Albanians attacked Kosovo Serbs [1], causing some 200,000-280,000[20] Serbs and other non-Albanians[21] to flee"). But that's not a genocide, sure. That's just a "normal migration".
And now Kosovo is the major center of drug trafficking in Europe and poverty levels there are highest in Europe.
Maybe you should read transcripts of Milosevic's trial? Have you ever wondered why such prominent trial was not widely published? My brother did a research for his term paper and found that the court found sufficient evidence for exactly ONE case of war crimes.
Sources please? (Score:2)
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It was publicized a bit by Russian TV and newspapers, but Europe completely is silent about the whole Kosovo situation. Small wonder, because number of misplaced Serbs exceed number of Albanian refugees misplaced by evil Milosevic.
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Not widely published? Did you ever actually search on the subject? [wikipedia.org] I count 31 references in the Wikipedia article alone. I imagine a Google search would pull up thousands of articles.
My brother did a research for his term paper and found that the court found sufficient evidence for exactly ONE case of war crimes.
Not to disrespect your family, but I will not accept "My b
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Oh, and do you remember photo of concentration camp with poor starving Albanians? Which turned out to be a holding center for Serb refugees?
So are you saying that genocide of Serbs is OK since they did that to Albanians earlier? Maybe we should use biological weapons on the USA population because US did that to native Americans earlier?
Do you realize that almost every war results in war crimes? Why don't we see Albanian warlords tried fo
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A couple of points in reply
One -- I never mentioned Albania. I mentioned Bosnia. Those are two different wars. In Bosnia, you had the events in Srebrenica. And, Serbia has been held responsible [icj-cij.org] for those genocidal events.
Two -- You appear to be confusing the term genocide [m-w.com] with refugee [m-w.com]. In short, Genocide
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I'm not confusing 'genocide' with 'refugee', I'm confusing 'genocide' with 'ethnic cleansing'. Albanians permitted large scale ethnic cleanings which are also prohibited by international law.
Re:Bosnia a good counterexample (Score:4, Informative)
That trial was the biggest injustice I've ever seen, after reading a lot of the transcripts. For example, a witness would testify against him for more than a day, and he would be "allowed" to cross examine, but given no time to do so - after one or two questions, he's told his time is up.
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Sorry, but the UN had nothing to do with it. Remember, Milosovich has the Russians in his pocket and Russians wield veto power. No, the UN was as powerless in Kosovo as it is anywhere else. Kosovo was a NATO operation.
Otherwise, your post is 100% correct.
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Pull the other one (Score:2)
And by the way a five character post that has more in the title than the comment is not insightful.
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There is a story about it here: http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/2005-10-12-googl e-charity_x.htm [usatoday.com]
From the article:
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How about providing a linky so we can annoy the EU and THEY can flex THEIR peacekeeping muscles? It does not take the US or US participation to field a UN force or enforce a no-fly zone. France has considerable experience doing COIN ops in Africa, has the Foreign Legion available, etc. Most of the EU forces don't have large overseas commitments. There are of course MANY other members of the UN in the rest of the world. Many of those are rich.
The reason t
i asked you to help (Score:2)
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Oh, and since you brought it up (in another thread), Rawanda wasn't stopped by diplomacy. It wasn't stopped by humanitarian aid. It only ended when one side (the 'good' side in this case) militarily defeated the bad guys.
zzz (Score:2)
i happen to be all for the military invasion of darfur. as of yesterday. and zimbabwe. and myanmar. we don't invade though, because the willpower isn't there, even though it is the right thing to do. there will be a greater cost for NOT invading the
But I do care (Score:5, Insightful)
Just not in the way you think. Muslims and blacks are fighting and killing each other. So?
It is extremely hard to see why a white european should care OR for that matter even if he cared what the fuck he could do about it.
Who exactly do you propose we shoot?
Because that is the only way to deal with this kinda situation, go in and kill the most agressive party and basically enforce "don't fight or we will kill you".
At the moment some claim that it is the black population that is receiving the worsed of it, so are you saying, in 2007, that the US (because the EU is to chicken shit) should start another war against muslims?
Even americans aren't that insane. *me looks at the americans*
Well, they might be that insane but they can't afford another war that you can't win.
Because the sad fact is this, you CANNOT end a force by conflict UNLESS you use extreme force and that is no longer acceptable. If the US intervenes and just one muslim child is claimed to have been killed (it is well known that muslims claims in this area are about as trustworthy as ANY propaganda claim has been in the whole of human history) the shit will hit the fan and it will face the exact same problems as in Iraq and Afghanistan.
The website you linked to reminds me an awfull lot of similar sites urging the western leaders to save the poor koerds. That went awfully well remember? Do you promise this time to remember what your bleeding heart cried out today when next week a US plane drops a bomb and some photographer show the corpse of a child (and again at another bombsite, several days later?)
No you won't and western leaders know this. They rather take the short, easily forgotten critisim of doing nothing. Because they know people like you, can't be counted upon to accept what needs to be done.
are you a human being? (Score:5, Interesting)
why care about rwanda? why care about iraq? why care about tiananmen square? why care about auschwitz?
why care about any human tragedy? better to just say "not my problem", right?
solves the problem, doesn't it? just stop caring, "not my problem"
"I am not going to adjust my life just to make a few people with bleeding hearts feel better."
good for you. enjoy your life. remember your statement above, when you ask anyone to care about anything you think is important. society is predicated on the fact we look out for each other. if we don't, those who mean ill will succeed: they pick us a part, one by one
so you better care, now, when it is starving people in a third world country being butchered. tomorrow, it is something happening in your neighborhood
poverty and suffering breeds and spreads. it must be fought in all of it's forms, now, today, or that means you only fight it tomorrow, when it is a larger problem. it does not go away on it's own, the sort of problem plaguing darfur. it grows, and spreads. you WILL deal with it, one way or another. when it is small and distant, now, or later, when it is huge and at your doorstep
we live in a world where what happens in kandahar matters in downtown manhattan. what did you learn from 9/11?
Are you really this gullible? (Score:2)
The problem in Darfur really IS Darfur's problem. The violence there isn't going to spread here and even if it were going to then all we would have to do is stop/kill the perpetrators, not help rebuild the country.
If you want to l
the biggest lie in this world (Score:3, Funny)
no
you must get involved, or problems like darfur spreads. look at the geopolitical environment around darfur. you ask me what the men who are perpetrating the crimes would do next were they to consolidate a base there and take their agenda to the next level. do you think people with ill will and global amibtions don't exist?
0/11 was a one off?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
how blind are you? ever hear
Re:the biggest lie in this world (Score:5, Funny)
I am writing to inform you that you have infringed on my Patent #1120395830A, How to Be A Complete Asshat Over The Internet. I hereby request that you cease and desist at once or face legal action. Please note that part of the methodology outlined in my patent covers laughing at people, as well as not bothering to pass links to information so that they can educate themselves.
Cease and Desist infringing my patents, immediately.
Thank You,
Chobi
your philosophy is broken (Score:3, Insightful)
1. in the age of jet air travel and the internet, there are no borders for anything
2. you are a human being. you therefore count (in their agenda: you can live under global sharia)
there is no morally or intellectually defensible opinion on any issue anymore except a global one. your attitude made sense once, when spanish galleons plied the oceans. those days are over, and so is your worldvi
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No one has said anything about making it "all OK". But it's never too late to start doing something, and something is better than nothing so long as what you're doing is actually accomplishing something and not making things worse.
Sure. We can be judged for our past actions, or past inactions. That hardly means that we can't start doing things now.
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But the problem, you see, is that no is claiming that "That'll make it all OK"... that's where your strawman becomes embarassingly obvious to anyone paying attention. The point isn't to somehow atone for all of "our" past sins by aiding the people of Darfur, the point is to *aid the people of Darfur*.
But, you go on feeling all self-righteous and smug about your spectacular knowledge of the dead and persecuted peoples of the w
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Your point is solid, but non-compelling.
Past sins do not command future performance. Let's learn already!
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Re:Of course Sudan's government didn't approve (Score:4, Informative)
This is not about Islam or the Qur'an itself. It is about whacked out religious nuts and their crazy interpretations. Unfortunately, we seem to get these nutcases with every religion.
I apologize for being somewhat off-topic with this post, but I could not bring myself to ignore the parent, even if it is a trolling AC.