Visualizing "Answer People" In Online Discussions 123
Marc Smith writes "'Answer people,' the folks who contribute much of the value in the Internet, are a small minority of all online users. According to a recent paper my co-authors and I have published in the Journal of Social Structure, less than 2% of authors in Usenet newsgroups are likely to be the helpful 'answer person' type — authors who reply to many other people with brief replies. The paper Visualizing the Signatures of Social Roles in Online Discussion Groups contains social network visualizations of the ties created when authors reply to one another. These images highlight the difference between these helpful folks and other types of contributors. The findings may apply to other threaded discussions, maybe even here at Slashdot."
And yet ... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:And yet ... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course I am not an "answer person." I have more important things to do.
I paid for my access to the Internet, which means I paid for my access to you. Dont expect any gratitude from me.
Re:And yet ... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, not because it's insightful on purpose, but because it's an accurate representation of how most of that 98% think. For some reason, they honestly believe that they -deserve- an answer just because they post a question.
I'm talking about the people that post things like 'What, 98 views and nobody answers my damn question!?' and 'Doesn't anyone know the answer?' and 'HEY I NEED HELP HERE AND HURRY UP'.
I'm an answer person. I actively enjoy helping other people. I'm not a selfless do-gooder, though. I do it because I'm happy when I make others happy. A selfless do-gooder would take all the abuse on forums without losing his top. They'd answer the question, even if the person was ignorant and rude. That's not me, because rude jerks don't give me that feeling of pride and happiness, but instead make me feel used and unappreciated.
Re:And yet ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:1)
Lets face it, Mother Teresa liked what she did. She didn't do it for them, she did it for herself.
Re: (Score:1)
That's pretty selfish.
Re: (Score:2)
I used to be like that, before became a programmer and got involved with the open source community. I think they are just used to reality of "Rights, Duties and Money".
People need to understand that as a community, every help, no matter how small, is valid and contributes to the higher goal. It's much like bittorrent, sharing the pieces of the puzzle everyone holds we can accomplish much.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
But generally, if it's a fast board and you get ignored, there's nothing you can do. If it's a slow board and you get ignored, nobody can answer the question. I just keep working at the prob
Re: (Score:1)
i see it like alignments in D&D. Internalizing - Externalizing on one axis. Strong - Weak on the other. Externalizing/Strong = Agressive, a bully. Internalizing/Strong = Assertive, stands up for itself, is not a bully. Internalizing/Weak = Passi
Slashdot may be full of answer people. (Score:4, Interesting)
1: Most don't initiate a topic. Simply reading the latest cool stories.
2: Look at the social network diagram of an answer person. Few interconnections. It indicates introverted social behaviour, which is classic computer/science etc geek/nerd. It's not like we're short of those.
3: Hands up the system administrators and technical support analysts.
In fact, the way Slashdot is structured with the constant new topics may even attract "answer people" over other bulletin board cultures. It'd be interesting to see an analysis done here. It'd be interesting if different bulletin board systems encouraged different types of people to use them. Hmm, you could even track the types of interactions based on the age of the story and by UID to see if the general culture has changed.
Interesting social research.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Your list, for example, would look like this:
<ul>
<li>Most don't initiate a topic. Simply reading the latest cool stories.</li>
<li>Look at the social network diagram of an answer person. Few interconnections. It indicates introverted social behaviour, which is classic computer/science etc geek/nerd. It's not like we're short of those.</li
Re: (Score:2)
(making a note of it.... Diagramming...)
Ok, carry on!
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Plus, I often use the discussions to think about things which I had not previously considered.
Re: (Score:1)
Dude, My "try rebooting" has been very successful.
Hey (Score:2, Funny)
Me too!
is... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:1, Funny)
RTFM!
Re: (Score:1)
Re:is... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Actually, I've noticed in the last few years that instead of saying RTFM (the value of which advice, incidentally, can't be overstated), is that people post Wiki links [wikipedia.org] instead. My guess is that it may be more useful for those unaccustomed to reading a terse man page and has the added bonus of being a brush-off that appears polite.
Similarly, offering linkies to popular websites is becoming increasingly common. There's more and more good websites, of course, but most people lo
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Sometimes RTFA is the answer. Some folks are SFL.
threaded discussion (Score:3, Funny)
Won't apply to me. I use the "nested" view for comments.
hmmm (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm sure I'm not alone.
Re: (Score:2)
You know what peeves me off. Obscure Windows OS and Application problems that the only results in Google are slew of 6 month old newsgroup posts with no replies.
And its usually the ones that fit my problem down to a T with the symptoms and error messages. The only consolation is the fact that some poor smuck out there has faced the same problem I am faced with now but with no solution.
Re: (Score:2)
These things should be downlisted like spam-sites, IMO, but they have enough signal to stay on top of the rankings, just nothing actually helpful.
Re: (Score:2)
5 thumbs down
[John]
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
End of Conversation (Score:3, Insightful)
Yahoo makes money off these people. (Score:5, Insightful)
And yet, Yahoo and other online corporations are (imho) exploiting these people by establishing "Answer" areas that reward people for answering questions with useless points. Do they get compensation or a cut of the advertising profits that yahoo is making on them? No. They get honor points.
Yahoo makes a mint on the viewership of the site and the answer people get a warm feeling... maybe it breaks even. I stopped answering questions after reading the hundredth obvious "I don't want to do my homework, so I'll ask it here" question.
At least sites like ePinions.com rewards it's reviewers with a pittance of the revenue their reviews generate.
Re:Yahoo makes money off these people. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Yahoo makes money off these people. (Score:4, Insightful)
then don't go to Yahoo! Answers and offer your services. It's not like you can't tell they're making money. I personally don't think Yahoo deserves my time, and they don't deserve to make money off my knowledge, so I don't go there and answer questions. But some people apparently don't care -- hey, their choice.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's the model we use at paid Q&A site http://uclue.com/ [uclue.com]
The downside is: we're not in a position to take on more "Answer people" until we get a higher volume of paid questions.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Frequently question/answer boards and forums light up with questions around finals/semester project/term paper times. It gets really old and it's unfair to those who actually do their own research instead of leeching off the good will of others to the detriment of their classmates.
That is frequently why a lot of people will give bogus answers - to ca
Re: (Score:2)
They are providing a simple service, and charging for it (it does cost them money to program and host it, you know). They assume those using it, whether asking
Re: (Score:1)
Interestingly, I find that's a trait of most "answer people. I don't know whether that's a cause or effect, though.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Fortunately, I can't. I can tell you both that for the "answer people", the idea of having made the world a little better, can be enouhg of a reward in itself. You could, of course, call it a waste of time or other resources, but there are far sillier hobbies than this. Besides, you're already participating in the fray just by replying and modding here at
Joke's on you, both.
Re: (Score:2)
Karmic Value (Score:3, Insightful)
Well yes people like to be favorably for contributing positively. Is greater status wrong in the light of greater contribution? http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/03/19472
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Who cares about the status. (did I mention my ***EXCELLENT*** karma on slashdot?)
Not just Karmic Value (Score:3, Interesting)
Well yes people like to be favorably for contributing positively.
There's an added benefit.
http://lowery.tamu.edu/Teaming/Morgan1/sld023.htm [tamu.edu]
The bottom 90% "teach others" is a fabulous aid to learning yourself. If you're interested in a subject, someone asks a question and you answer it after a bit of research, you're going to understand and remember the stuff well.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Paying Them (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Its been my observation that "trying to be useful", regardless of its economic rewards, seems to be inbred in some of us. Maybe its some sort of genetic thing. I cite the entire concept of open-source as my evidence. Some of the best minds in the industry literally give themselves to the public - a "Mother Teresa" type thing, meant in the best of hopes of sharing in the hopes of providing public display of a concept that should work. The Bible is full of it.
Payments
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:1)
You nailed it well. Promises of pay attracts those who strive to get paid.
I saw this well in some of my previous places of employment.
I was quite picky over who I wanted to work for. My selection was primarily based on what they did, and did I want to do this... in other words... "Is this gonna be fun?".
I know myself all too well. If its something I have no desire to do, and I am doing it just to get paid, my own personal economics wi
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Wrong (Score:2)
The motivation for helping is not pay. It's not like work.
The motivation is helping people, and having other people understand you are helpful.
To draw in helper people, you need to understand how to make it more visible that people are helpful. When helper people see other helper people being recognized socailly, that makes
All you need to do (Score:4, Funny)
Oh wait, thats not what you meant by "visualizing" them, is it?
Answer Guy speaks (Score:3, Funny)
They don't.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:1)
Time & place (Score:2, Informative)
It really has nothing to do with my personality, it has alot more to do with how the conversation area is setup.
Re: (Score:1)
Personality vs role (Score:2)
Long answer people (Score:4, Insightful)
Some of the most important and helpful - if less frequent - responses are ones that are longer explanations of complex problems or concepts. Disregarding these from consideration is
Re: (Score:1)
I have... (Score:1)
Cheap replacement for traditional customer service (Score:4, Insightful)
1. Buy a $upport contract or pay-per-incidence
2. Free email support! It only takes 3-5 business days to get an unhelpful reply.
3. Visit our support forums. There are plenty of suckers out there who have already bought our product and figured it out, no thanks to us. Get your answer from them because, hey, they supply the knowledge for free and it only costs us a few $ to maintain the support forum!
Of course if you really do have some sticky problem, or a valid complaint, well, the support forums are not an officially recognized means of communication to the company. Having said that, we'll still delete posts/threads and bar any whiners that make us look bad. So, back to #1 if you really do need technical support.
I used to be an "answer" guy on a couple of mail lists. Not anymore. Why? because I've moved beyond the products I used to know a lot about. Now I ask the questions for new products I'm learning. That, and the fact that I've realized how much I've "given away" and not gotten anything back from. If I'm going to waste my time, it might as well be on slashdot.
Re:Cheap replacement for traditional customer serv (Score:1)
So no one's ever answered any of your questions then?
Re: (Score:1)
Karma is tangible within the confines of slashdot, but I see very little evidence that it exists in the real world.
Method needs to mature (Score:2)
Some of the ideas I have seen for improving forum based support are basic... like paying your level 1 techs to hang out in the forums and elevate complex issues to L2 while resolving basic issues via the forum.
Other ideas are more complex and some require more active user involvement. One of the most intriguing ideas I have seen is the extension of in-program help files through integrating support forum threads. There is a lot of overhead involved in cla
Re:Cheap replacement for traditional customer serv (Score:1)
2. Free email support! It only takes 3-5 business days to get an unhelpful reply.
3. Visit our support forums. There are plenty of suckers out there who have already bought our product and figured it out, no thanks to us. Get your answer from them because, hey, they supply the knowledge for free and it only costs us a few $ to maintain the support forum!
Helllllooooooooo Ubuntuuuuuuuuuu.
Depends on topic (Score:2, Interesting)
Frustration (Score:2, Insightful)
If they're not prepared to put some time into using the initial information you've given t
Bottom 2% Or Top 2%? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
That's a common scenario in a lot of social situations. Forums, guilds, gaming clans, businesses, social clubs, etc.
The factor seems to be how many EGR (Extra Grace Required) there are compared to normal supportive members. EGR folks are either abusive towards others, disrespectful, or require extra attention. Hence the term "EGR" which means that you have to have extra grace in order to d
Re: (Score:2)
What this usenet (Score:1)
No, I am not serious (sigh).
Thoughtul answers vs. clever put-downs (Score:1, Troll)
90% of the replies to this post will no doubt prove my point.
This is a brief reply. (Score:1)
Answer people teach, others just tell (Score:1)
Serious point though - teach a man to fish and all that.
I find I only answer the toughies (when I can) and leave picking off 50 easy answers to other people - so I guess that means I enjoy the challenge of answering tough questions.
Do you think answer people are the ones who ask the sensible questions when they do get stuck? If you filter out all the questions you can answer using Google in five minutes, those that remain are a different category; generated, I so stipulate, by a different class o
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I thought that the newsgroups had pretty much deteriorated into porn images and a way to download all the spam and trojans you ever wanted...
No, that's the World Wide Web. Newsgroups are where technical stuff gets done. Very little spam, mostly on-topic posts, people who know what they're talking about, and no advertising.
Re: (Score:3)
continue to be valuable sources of info. I personally find value in following comp.ai, comp.ai.genetic, comp.ai.neural-nets, comp.ai.philosophy, comp.lang.lisp, comp.lang.prolog, comp.object and a few others. <shrug
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The entire comp. hierarchy is valuable. For those interested in programming, for example, comp.lang.c, comp.lang.perl.misc, comp.unix.shell are additional groups that alive and kicking and more valuable to just about anyone than most of the rubbish found on the web. Fo
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
While there are probably a hundred web forums out there with the answer, they don't get indexed in time by Google, or get indexed but the thread/post can't be referenced anymore, or there is just too much cruft and Google can't find the content, or
I've been thinking maybe Google should make a "forum search"...
* Google's own "not usenet" g
Re: (Score:2)
What's annoying today is that nobody has managed to come up with a messaging / discussion system that truly "works" (in both online and offline modes). USENET is great... except that very few people go there (and Thunderbird's USENET support is sucky, at best). Lots of folks like to use Web Forums, which have their advantages (e-mail notification of replies, ability to mark
Re: (Score:2)
There's no reason that Usenet clients couldn't remember which forums you have posted to and give you a nice notification list of replies to read - it has always annoyed me that they don't. With a lot of mucking around with rules, you can sometimes get them to highlight replies to you in a particular grou
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
However, a few years ago there was someone who was talking about an "imminent Usenet renaissance." Not sure that's actually occurred but their theory was that most ISPs no longer make it easy to get on Usenet, so the users who actually participate in discussions there are usually fairly interested / experts. In other words, most of the AOL users / script kiddies / etc. are busy trolling PHPBB sites, because they're easier to get into than Usenet.
Unfortunately because of the spam problems, t
Re: (Score:2)
Almost makes me want to fire up my newsreader and see if there's anything there to see. Almost.
For me to go back to public Usenet, all the clients would have to have builtin reputation systems/collaborative filtering, compulsory signing of posts and some central registry of IDs. Killfiles and regexp filters just ain't up to it.
Having said that. Usenet News absolutely rocks in a controlled setting like a private/corporate LAN. If you can make it part of the culture at all there's an order of magnitude improvement in communication over email for group discussions. For some reason, people seem to feel
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
2000s Usenet != 1980s Usenet (Score:3, Interesting)
Back in the early 1980s, I used to read all of Usenet. It's changed a bit since then :-) (It helped to have a gimongous laser printer in the basement that could do double-sided 4-up printing, though I think by the time we got that I'd stopped reading a f
Re: (Score:2)
Except what really killed Usenet was the world wide web. Note that the "Eternal september" which many consider to be the downfall as a discussion forum was also the same time Mosaic was released. Just removing the binary groups or install a binaries filter would have drastically reduced the bandwudth use. Most importantly, you could make web sit
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm disappointed to see that the paper doesn't discuss evolution over time of the conversational roles.
You can't expect a social science paper to do everything known to mankind, and this paper does a heck of a lot of things. In fact, it might take this paper to be cited a few times before some other social scientist picks up on the historical data.
/. story) presented this paper, and what I thought was most interesting was not just the computational tools they used to visualize thread data (apparently the
I was just at the conference where Marc Smith (incidentally, an author of the paper and author of the