What Vista SP1 Means To You 340
An anonymous reader writes "Geek.com has an interview with Nick White, Microsoft's Vista Product Manager, covering the upcoming release of Vista SP1. The interview goes over some of the new features, how the change will affect admins, and how Microsoft decides if a change should be rolled out as an update or as part of the service pack. One of the most interesting questions asks whether people should feel that they have to wait until SP1 to upgrade to the operating system, a common practice with Windows users. White writes off this practice as no longer being necessary and notes how Windows Update has lessened the importance of the release of a service pack. Just the same, a News.com article explores the possibility that this update will finally begin driving users to Vista."
What Vista SP1 means to me (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What Vista SP1 means to me (Score:5, Funny)
A message from raw sewage (Score:5, Funny)
We, the raw sewage community, take umbrage with that remark.
Don't be fooled by his mis-direction. (Score:2, Insightful)
It has been more than 2 years since WinXP service pack 2 was released ( August 25, 2004 [microsoft.com]), even though updating Windows XP from an SP2 CD requires downloading more than 170 Megabytes of files, a difficult problem when there is no internet connection or onl
CORRECTION: ... more than 3 years. (Score:2)
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Poopyhead (Score:4, Insightful)
I used to know a guy on a campus social sciences mailing list that could not discuss Islam or Islamic society without using the term "islamofascist". Every single time. And all his references were to blog entries he had written, most of which were plain wrong or simple misrepresented facts. It gets old after a while, but more importantly it's the equivalent to using "poopyhead" when talking about someone you don't like. It's impossible to have conversations of any sort with people like that.
It's funny that you talk about Microsoft's credibility here, given that your slaughter of intelligent discourse also eliminates most of yours.
I like Slashdot but lately it's becoming more and more like Digg.
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~S
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Re:Poopyhead (Score:5, Interesting)
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One: Actions speak louder than words. The AC posted as AC intentionally, most likely because he/she/it is concerned that their credibility is already too crappy to be listened to or will be if they say things like... what they said.
Two:
M$... Windoze... M$... Windoze... [unsubstantiated blabber]... M$... Windoze [bad spelling]... M$... Windoze... [self-references]... M$... Windoze...
What was "unsubstantial" about the "blabber" other than the AC's opinion?
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And, aside, a lot of the time I think Twitter says some insightful stuff. I may not always agree with Twitter, but I think the moment people start targeting others and harassing them personally rather than the actual words they say it's a sign of immat
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There are plenty of reasons to post as AC, but there are few to post blatant ad hominem attacks other than that your reputation simply doesn't stack up to your target's, or that you want to damage theirs but aren't willing to risk yours. Please enlighten me on any other reason a person would post an ad hominem attack as an AC.
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The AC was attacking a specific person and too cowardly to be quoted on it later or held accountable to the words.
I have good karma because I tend to (not always, of course) choose my words carefully. This gives me credibility on slashdot. If Twitter is not credible then the majority of slashdo
/. and moderations... (Score:3, Insightful)
From the comments I would propose that the traditional linux stronghold has been lost. Anyone making negative references to Microsoft products seems to be modded down and 'out yelled', whether the comments are on technical merits, anecdotal or opinionated, or derogatory.
Of course derogatory for its own sake should be modded down. Technical conversations should be directly rebuffed unless they are obvious lies (it goes both ways Twitter...). Anecdotal; ymmv. Opinionated should be reasoned with technical bas
We've all grown up (Score:3, Interesting)
If I'm anything like other people on Slashdot, I'm now older and wiser. I am about to plunk down $1,600 on Photoshop/Dreamweaver. I bought and paid for all the softw
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From the comments I would propose that the traditional linux stronghold has been lost. Anyone making negative references to Microsoft products seems to be modded down and 'out yelled', whether the comments are on technical merits, anecdotal or opinionated, or derogatory.
You must be reading some other Slashdot.
Here, pretty much any post that criticises Windows or Microsoft is a shoe-in for some sort of positive moderation, regardless of its accuracy or how (badly) it might be written. Anyone posting abou
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But people would take your posts a lot more seriously if you spelled Microsoft or its shorthand version MS properly. I don't like them myself, but there's no need for infantile name-throwing.
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Coincidentally, I just sat down and used Windows Vista properly for the first time today. Clean installs, first in Parallels Desktop and then Boot Camp. A
Re:What this means is that M$ is begging again. (Score:4, Interesting)
I mean honestly, what is the big problem? I keep reading articles and comments talking about how crappy Vista is and I just shake my head and say I don't get it. I don't know. I guess prejudices are hard to give up.
Re:What this means is that M$ is begging again. (Score:4, Informative)
- saving a wireless connection with no SSID;
- hibernating;
- coming back from hibernation;
- re-establishing a wireless connection AFTER coming back from hibernation (assuming you managed to get that far);
- checking your battery consumption
- ???
and then tell me there's nothing to complain about.Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:What this means is that M$ is begging again. (Score:4, Insightful)
That doesn't mean there aren't bugs. Their new TCP/IP stack has all kinds of bugs. There is a bug (and I'm too lazy to find the KB on it) that fucks up how it sends ACK's to other devices. As it turns out, it will hang the MediaMVP in my bedroom. Some vendors software gets buggy too - Vista changed a lot of the API for explorer (the file one, dammit!) that seems to crash TortiseSVN every now and then (though explorer.exe is the one that does the crashing...)
Given a little more time to mature, I suspect many people will look at this like XP vs 3.1. They really just look and act that much different.
Re:Amazing. (Score:5, Interesting)
My mother-in-law is a very unknowledgeable user. I bought her a computer a week after I bought mine and I set it up with Vista (came with XP but Vista had just been released so I got a free upgrade). My mother-in-law's biggest problem has always been her kids coming home to visit and downloading or installing crap. It's always been a challenge to lock her XP down. With Vista it's a piece of cake. She runs as a standard user and since she isn't a power user, she rarely has to be bothered by UAC. When she is, it's no big deal to enter the admin password. Now when I go to visit I don't have to spend hours cleaning off viruses and spyware. It all just works. She's never had an issue and I never have to fix something using the VNC server I installed on it like I used to with her XP.
As for faster, it really doesn't have a speed problem. I've never noticed any speed issue and that's with Aero running. It's an HP that I paid $650 for and it included a monitor. Not exactly high-end hardware.
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XP user at work
Linux user at home
Vista user at home
Never had an issue with vista since I installed it right when it was first released. Runs well on my old Dell Domension 8300 box. Not crashed. Not slow when copying lots of files. I use it to serve all my MP3 (>250 Megs) throughout my house. I run NTI Shadow 3 in the background to backup My Docs, photos and music to my LACIE network drive. I run McAfee in the background and a bunch of other stuff. I'm not a tech-boy, I installed it myse
New features? (Score:2)
From TFA: (Score:2)
So
I guess we're going to have to re-write the old "it's not a bug, it's a feature".
Meanwhile, we'll be seeing new bugs in the new "functionality" that is not a new "feature".
Re:From TFA: (Score:5, Interesting)
In other words, I either want an updated XP Pro or OSX that will run on my own sweet hardware.
In regards to Microsoft's "commitment to Service Pack 3", I've got a sick feeling that XP SP3 is going to try to basically bolt on most of the horrible shit in Vista onto my XP system. Microsoft's clearly pissed that we haven't embraced their wonderful new OS and they're going to try to shove it down our throats.
I think what I really want is a third professional, commercial operating system that will run my software and light a fire under MS and Apple, perhaps convincing them that it's worthwhile to actually consider what their customers want. Their ability to make fat profits while ignoring customer satisfaction is not the way the "free market system" is supposed to work, and it speaks volumes about the disdain corporate America has for the rest of us.
I make a living using software that runs on XP Pro. But I am so sick of having companies like Microsoft disregard the desires of "the market" and act like the monopoly they are that not using Vista has become as much a political act than it is a consumer decision.
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Only in Soviet Russia. Here, it's the other way around. However I for one welcome our inaccurate duplicating slashdot...
it means (Score:2)
What it means to me? (Score:2)
Hmmm -- nope. Nothing.
What Vista SP1 Means to You (Score:2)
Re:What Vista SP1 Means to You (Score:5, Informative)
In round numbers, this is how the world looks to the web developer:
Win XP 75%
Unchanged since September 06
W2K 6%
Down 5% since September 06.
W2K had little mass market exposure.
Vista 4%
Up from 0% in January 07
It should be interesting to see how Vista fares in Back-To-School and Christmas sales. You will be much less of the warmed-over XP box and much more of the DX10 system realistically spec'd for Vista. To speak of Vista's "failure" in the marketplace is desperately premature, if not inane.
OSX 4%
Unchanged since January 05
Linux 3%
Unchanged since November 03
However, the w3Schools stats suggest that Linux may be losing ground to the Mac and OSX.
W98 1%
Unchanged since August 06 OS Platform Statistics [w3schools.com]
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On the same site I found these statistics: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.a sp [w3schools.com]
The browser market i
No, you can talk about Vista's failure. (Score:4, Insightful)
To speak of Vista's "failure" in the marketplace is desperately premature, if not inane.
A new OS or fork that fails to gain more than 4% of the user base in 9 months could only be considered a success in Redmond. We have already been through a Christmas and back to school sale. Why should next year be any different? M$ still thinks xbox and zune are competitive, so what do I know?
If you want to talk about desperate, think about M$'s position. Release a brand new OS and a brand new Office suit and then see no difference to your bottom line. See banks, airlines, hardware stores and others deploy rival software, "where it counts". See vendors sell the same rival software. Their software is buggy because they opted for the great content lockdown instead of taking care of things that mattered.
Value proposition (Score:4, Insightful)
So, with the service pack you're finally getting a stable product? Where's the value for all the money you're laying out? Pay hundreds of dollars, put up with anal probe product activation and wait almost a year for what you should have gotten in the first place.
I'm sure that makes sense on some planet...just not this one.
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welcome to slashdot I guess *sigh*
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The presense of bugs or unstability in some computers does not mean its not a value to most; even those affected by the bugs may see value depending on the severity of the bugs. Some may be annoying, but taken as a whole, the product is of value to them.
I'm no
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And please, enough with your stupid journal already. Its already been picked apart, and even the anti-MS crowd here is starting to see you for the nutjob you are.
Waiting for the SP (Score:5, Insightful)
And in my experience, lest my FOSS bias shine through, the idea of waiting for the first few updates goes for most software, not just Windows or other MS software.
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On the other hand if Apple deploy some patchs later, they are just getting sure that everything is fixed right, and if they deploy them early, then wow! they are just blazing fast to help their users! oh well....
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Please enlight me, because i don't know any OS or even a single complex program that gets it's right without patch from day one.
Well:
It's a matter of degree - although all code has bugs, some organisations tend to produce code that is far buggier (both in terms of quantity and seriousness of bugs.
Code that is expected to have bugs is usually marked "beta". Shipping known-buggy code without marking it as "beta" is dishonest.
Usually, beta testers are rewarded for their work. With Microsoft (and a lo
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1. When doing major rewrites, you *will* cause regressions. At least if you don't have a budget where millions is petty cash.
2. No matter how much testing you do, users will find ways to break it which you never imagined.
I do seem to recall a few OSS releases where they basicly admitted "yes, we're releasing now even though we know it's not gold, but we need more testers". It's all down to the risk/reward ratio, there's always a bunch of power users who won't be "beta
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SP == Sales Pack, not Service Pack (Score:2)
Nobody, not even utter fanboys, thought that pre-SP Vista would be worthwhile. MS know they have to release an SP to make people interested. It gives them a way to wipe the slate clean.
What Vista SP1 Means To Me... (Score:2)
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BitLocker quote from article (Score:5, Interesting)
"If you're an administrator, then you definitely have a lot more to look forward to when it comes to SP1. One thing that caught my eye was the additional ability in BitLocker to encrypt extra local volumes. Many enterprises still partition their workstations and laptops into a C and D drive. Since users are usually instructed to use the D drive to store their data, this means data was at risk if the enterprise also used BitLocker as a security measure, since D couldn't be previously encrypted."
Wait. Only C: could be locked? Full of fail.
So use TrueCrypt (Score:3, Informative)
What does it mean to me? (Score:2)
Two SP1 stories in one day? (Score:2, Informative)
But I'll say the same thing here that I did last time. Basically, the reason that SP1 isn't as big as deal as a "Service Pack" normally is, is that the two "main" updates that will provide a different end-user experience have already been released [arstechnica.com].
The main "other" thing that SP1 will offer, which apparently wasn't confirmed by Nick White's post, is Paul Thurrott's statement (echoed by others, but which he has now stepped back from until he can get confirmation [winsupersite.com]) that Vista
Bloat? (Score:4, Funny)
It means "XP" to me (Score:5, Interesting)
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There's no way I'm going to wait until Q1 2008 for a service pack that might fix my issues, especially if, according to Microsoft, service packs are less important now that Windows Update is widely used.
Huh? Service packs are less important now. A service pack is essentially just a collection of patches. Before the Internet was widely used, these patches would be distributed on floppy and later CD. Now you can just download the patches immediately. These days, a service pack is just a large download, along with the CD option for people who don't want to download a giant collection of patches. (Or, if Vista SP1 is going to be as large as Microsoft seems to be suggesting, a DVD option.)
It's not like Micr
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It's not like Microsoft is not releasing bug fixes until Q1 2008
RTFA. That's exactly what's happening. Straight from the article, straight from Microsoft's product manager himself:
SP1's purpose is not primarily as a feature-delivery vehicle but as a way to improve the user experience and enhance it in some areas.
... On the other hand, security may be a great
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To me, a Slashdot reader... (Score:3, Interesting)
What can someone be xpected to say about a mere Statement of Intent from Microsoft, about a Service Pack.... which right thinking people would expect a big comapny to release RIGJHT NOW and solve teething troubles faced by Vista users daily?
The schedule for SP1 indicates MS is under zero pressure to deliver anything or do anything innovative. No point fantasizing about it.
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Nothing (Score:2)
one step closer to ... (Score:3, Funny)
Just like Windows eventually caught up to Mac with Windows95 and then exceeded it with Windows 2000, Microsoft will once again catch up to Mac OS X with an eventual improved version of Vista that looks and feels as good.
When that time comes Apple faithful will rant "Mac's had that for 5 years!" and it won't matter anymore. Apple had better get innovating the next major killer features fast, because Microsoft is always improving.
LoL (Re:one step closer to ...) (Score:2)
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How About an iCar? (Score:3, Insightful)
Looks like Apple's got some innovative plans [forbes.com] in the works . . .
Should this come to pass, would we have to re-work the "If Microsoft built a car" [softwareti...tricks.com] jokes?
when will people stop believing MS? (Score:2)
Vista was supposed to be released in ?
Vista was proclaimed as ready... oops
How many times do people have to be fooled before they realise that the next release from MS will also be a disappointment?
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Remember, we are talking about the same people who have come to accept system crashes as a fact of life.
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As long as all new PeeCees come with Windows installed, the Average Person will continue to believe that Microsoft Windows (and associated applications) is "the best."
They've got 11 year old kids coming home from school extolling the virtues of Power Point and Dream Weaver.
Microsoft has won. Game over.
Massive drive space required (Score:2)
* A minimum of 7 GB free disk space on the system partition for x86-based operating systems and a minimum of 12 GB free disk space for x64-based operating systems.
They say the drive space will only be used temporarily, and I know drive space is cheap these days. But what about people with laptops that are pushing their hard drives near the limit?
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Generally available system requirements for previous SPs have at least assumed that you go the "keep uninstall files" route, while also keeping local copies of all the new SP files, in addition to the actually installed copy.
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I guess what I'm really saying is that if they care, they'll find a way.
Laptops are the key to Vista spread (Score:2, Interesting)
It has started a huge shift from desktop computers to laptops, just check out your local stores. I picked up a decent HP dual core, 1 GB memory, 80GB HD, DVD-RW, firewire for my daughter to replace her aging desktop.
Since Vista was pre-installed, everything works, of course. I would not want to switch over to Vista, but since it's included in the $500 laptop price, and
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Since Vista was pre-installed, everything works, of course.
I'm not really sure how you got from the first clause to the second. Vista now works on machines it's pre-installed on? That's great news for gamers and HD-video enthusiasts who've been lamenting the broken or DRM-crippled drivers on their high end systems.
but since it's included in the $500 laptop price, and it would cost me $160 to get an XP OEM plus my time
Or, get one with XP OEM pre-installed (so that everything works, of course) for a marginal cost of... nothing. Which is exactly what I'm in the process of doing right now, since I'm buying a laptop to run exactly one specific program and I don't w
Family (Score:2)
huh? (Score:5, Funny)
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Zonk, on the other hand...
Vista SP1 Means ... (Score:2)
None can be perfect, software can always contain bugs. But being dull and dumb with bugs and security holes is deliberate stupidity.
Driving? (Score:4, Insightful)
It means absolutely nothing to me (Score:2)
Making XP look good (Score:2)
Windows Vista, making XP look good for 7 months now.
Re-installed Ubuntu instead. My Vista problems: (Score:5, Informative)
- Two year old Netgear 802.11g wireless card being virtually impossible to install
- Crackling, popping audio in World of Warcraft (and other games) from the built in audio that defied repeated attempts to fix via driver upgrades
--- Disabled said audio in BIOS, inserted Creative Sound Blaster 5.1 digital PCI card. Guess what? VISTA INCOMPATIBLE. Creative. THE standard. in.com.patible with Vista's DRM-heavy digital device list. Back to crackling, popping on board audio. So annoying I resorted to playing WoW with no sound.
- ATI HDTv Wonder PCI card installation - wasted time. Windows Media Center could not tune ANYTHING with any degree of quality when the same card + antenna did brilliantly on my old Win XP box. Furthermore, exhaustive forum searching reveals that Media Center actually cripples the driver for the HD tuner, making it so that you can tune OTA content, OR CATV content, but NOT BOTH. You have to install a hacked up driver from some shady 3rd party website to use the full functionality of your TV card. Again, the ATI product does not appear on Microsoft's DRM-heavy "approved digital device" list.
- On board gigabit ethernet adapter's network configuration would randomly disappear and have to be reconfigured when the computer was hard rebooted for any reason, including power outages, or video lockups, leading us to..
- NVidia GForce 7300 PCI Express card included with machine worked flawlessly as delivered, BUT after Microsofts last "patch Tuesday" a few weeks ago, the video would not 'wake up' after the machine had been put to sleep. The "sleep mode" suspend worked great until the last security patch.. It makes no sense to me either. After the patch, the video would not wake with the rest of the system, forcing a hard poweroff/restart, causing the network setting to disappear.. HALF the time.
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So, two nights ago, after backing up, I took my freshly burned Ubuntu 7.04 cd, took a deep breath, and installed. I can get around in Linux, but I am by no means an expert. My installation was smooth. In less than 90 minutes, using Automatix, I had every plugin, driver, and application I could ever want to make my system perform properly. Nvidia OpenGL driver automatically configured, all video/flash plugins for Firefox, DVD playback, the whole 9 yards. Additionally, using the step-by step copy and paste instructions from the ubuntu website, I had Wine installed, and had configured it properly to run World of Warcraft.
So here I sit. World of Warcraft runs smoothly. Audio is CRYSTAL CLEAR, my Soundblaster Live 5.1 card is supported, no popping, clicking audio. I play the game at 1680x1050 with almost all detail settings turned on at a very smooth framerate. I visit CNN.com and view all embedded video seamlessly, no plugin errors or other irritants. When I need to type papers for college, I have OpenOffice. Ipod works flawlessly with podcast management program.
Why do I need Vista again?
------
Make World of Warcraft work flawlessy in Ubuntu with Wine:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WorldofWarcraft [ubuntu.com]
PC World's noob-friendly "Seven Post-Install Tips for Unbuntu 7.04" :
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,130923-page,1-c
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Your network must be too fast.
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tags (Score:2)
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Article misses the point entirely (Score:2)
What Vista SP1 means to me (Score:2)
I had such a miserable experience running Vista for two weeks (on a fairly ballsy PC - AMD Athlon fx 4000 w/ 4 gb RAM, gamer-quality video card, etc.). Sorry, but you'd have to point a gun to my head to get me to do that again.
This was the last Windows PC in my otherwise all-Mac house. Tomorrow I'm replacing it with a new Mac Mini Core2Duo. Probably just redeploy the PC as a home network server.
If you love Vista, great, I'm not trying to piss on your parade. I will admit the Aero
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Re:ROFL (Score:5, Insightful)
1) hardware compatibility issues,
2) software compatibility issues, and
3) annoyances such as UAC, which negatively impact hinder the user experience (though, I do understand their utility).
In a corporate setting, the first two are, without question, show stoppers, and the last is a burden for support staff. Further, XP *works* for most people, so there's little reason to switch. A service pack for Vista does nothing to address these issues (nor could it).
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1) Linux
2) Mac OS X
3) Old MS products
The correct answer is 'C'. I know a company that is *very* Microsoft-centric. Last year they were announcing ambitious plans to move to Vista as soon as possible. Not only are they still on XP, they evidently now have no plans to move to Vista. I guess a cold dose of reality was enough to bring them to their senses.
MS is facing two problems with regard to Vista adoption: 1) Vista mostly sucks* and 2) XP is mostly OK. Either one wou
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They should have added SP1 to the initial release.
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