KDE's Version Timing Drops It In Ubuntu Support Priority

News.com is reporting that the next version of Ubuntu will see KDE unsupported, but only for the time being. Because of the dramatic changeover from KDE 3.5 to 4.0, Ubuntu sponsor Canonical is unwilling to initially support the popular Linux GUI. Gnome will still be supported, and the company expects to return support to kubuntu soon. "Developer interest is focused on KDE 4.0, but it's not mature enough yet to use in the next KDE-based variation of Ubuntu, called Kubuntu, Scott James Remnant, leader of the Ubuntu Desktop team, said in an explanation to a Kubuntu mailing list. But most Kubuntu developers adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5."

Not suprising

[proudfoot]

The next version of Kubuntu/Ubuntu would have been an LTS, which means that it would be aimed at those who expected a long life out of an operating system, such as enterprise users.
KDE 4.0, in its current, and rather buggy state, does not fit the bill.

Re:Not suprising

[Fri13]

KDE4 starts KDE 4.x series and it isn't in that condition that everyone could use it like they can use KDE 3.5 on it current state. So, then when KDE 4.1 comes, it should be then in state it is good for anyone. Now when in few weeks KDE4 comes out, it is mostly for application developers and users who knows how to submit wishes and use KDE3.x applications in KDE4 too etc.

LTS support didnt come to kubuntu because KDE 3.5.x series support will be ended before LTS support and KDE4 isn't in shape it could be supported time what LTS needs. So, Kubuntu dont get LTS support, mayby next time when LTS version is coming from ubuntu.

But for those whole like to have supported KDE, can turn for other distributions like Mandriva, SUSE etc.

(im not developer but this info i have got from KDE blogs and it is UOM)

Re:

[nurb432]

But it also says they wont support 3.5.x which really is irritating for us KDE users.

Good thing FreeBSD 7. will be out by then.

Re:

[mabhatter654]

why promise to support a dead release for 5 years 6 months after the upgrade is released? in 2 years nobody will care about 3.5 and simply tell you to upgrade because those bugs are fixed.. Canonical doesn't want to do that by themselves. 4.0 isn't ready for betting your company on just yet, so the solution was to put both in the 8.04 under standard support, then commit to 4.0 under 8.10 forward... that seems the best course, had KDE gotten their stuff out in October so it could be in 7.10, they would hav

Re:

[jilles]

So basically you are telling all those companies out there considering to switch to linux that in 6 months there is going to be noone around to support whatever they are installing now?. Pretty tough message either they install stuff that is pretty much untested and might become usable over the next year or they install stuff that is pretty well tested but that nobody wants to support anymore. Sounds like Microsoft stopping support for XP when they were still beta testing Vista (which some people might argu

Re:

[mrchaotica]

So basically you are telling all those companies out there considering to switch to linux that in 6 months there is going to be noone around to support whatever they are installing now?

No. Canonical is telling all those companies to use the GNOME version, which will be a long-term-support version, instead, or to use the older Kubuntu LTS version (6.06).

Re:Not suprising

[phoenix.bam!]

KDE 3.5 will be perfectly usable for many more years, but people working on the Kubuntu project have moved to KDE4 for the most part. Considering they are volunteers it is perfectly reasonable for them to do so. But without anyone working on the packages, Kubuntu can't release a long term support version of Kubuntu with KDE 3.5. There just isn't anyone around to maintain it.

Re:

[Locutus]

considering that Ubuntu's LTS means security fixes and not application updates, you'd think that they could swing a deal with KDE people or even the Kubuntu people to ship KDE3 and just provide bug fixes as REQUIRED. Missing out on such a large market is not going to be a good thing for KDE. After all, many of the 'big' distro's are gnome based now and losing any more ground could hurt.

That is if Canonical is really moving anywhere with the LTS kits. Three years is a long time to miss out on.

LoB

Re:Not suprising

[Almost-Retired]

I agree this will be unfortunate for KDE.

However your inference that LTS is of limited utility misses the point. 6.06 was chosen as the host platform for emc, precisely because by using 6.06, the emc developers were guaranteed a stable platform and could then concentrate on improving emc, and boy howdy have they ever. It is, I believe, the fastest moving development I've ever seen for an OS product in the field of computer numerical control software. It has gone from a somewhat twitchy & difficult to tune 3 axis milling machine driver to a stable 6 axis platform (9 is being discussed) capable of operating either a mill or a lathe. It can now bore a hole, then swap bits and thread both the bolt to fit that hole, and the hole itself on the milling machines table, I've done the threaded hole operation myself. Or to do the ornate carving in 3D of a beds headboard on a production line basis in a major high quality furniture makers factory.

When the next LTS comes out, emc will have to chose which of the realtime additions to the next kernel will be used, and adapt emc to live with it, and once done they can get back to the real project, that of making emc the accepted king of such applications. It is not far from that status now as commercial controllers are being ripped out, and emc put in their place to control machining centers as the older machines are being rebuilt, both due to wear in the machine, and bit rot in the controlling software which is no longer supported.

So the LTS versions do have a place in this world, very much so.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
10.0 times 0.1 is hardly ever 1.0.

Re:

[delt0r]

What is emc? I assume its some CNC controller software. Google did not bring up anything that looked like what you are talking about.

Re:

[Almost-Retired]

Go to http://www.linuxcnc.org/ [linuxcnc.org] or to http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/ [linuxcnc.org] and I believe you will be enlightened.

There is also a well manned irc channel, on freenode, #emc. I've had problems due to my lack of knowledge, or actual gotcha type bugs, fixed in 5 minutes. Or less. These guys are sharp coders, who also make a living with whats inside all that swarf on the floor or catch trays. Follow some of the links in the wiki to see the machines themselves which these guys use, which range from table toppers like min

Re:

[Locutus]

I didn't think I was saying or inferring that Ubuntu LTS was of "limited utility". I don't know how successful Canonical has been with it in the market or how the market views it. Obviously, there is someone who has seen it's value( linuxcnc.org ) but one does not a party make. If Ubuntu's LTS is what is getting looked at in the general market, not shipping a KDE supported LTS version for the next release is not going to be good for KDE's marketshare.

You didn't state if the EMC development is using Ubuntu L

Re:

[Almost-Retired]

The Ubuntu/Kubuntu 6.06 installs are, as far as emc is concerned, equivalent. Xubuntu/Kubuntu will probably work just as well too.

I happen to like KDE, but if push comes to shove I could probably learn to tolerate and ignore gnomes &^%$# holier than thou attitude and use it. But it has nowhere near the configurability facilities that KDE has. In my case, the gfx card is as much a limiting factor as anything else, its your basic 4 megabyte elderly Diamond Speedstar, an oxymoron on a par with military

Re:

[Locutus]

I don't think moving to an ATI card is something you want to do if you are going for stability. Atleast if you are also going to go with ATI's drivers. Maybe the open source radeon driver(xorg.conf => DRIVER=ati) is fine though.

You do know that you could very well just swap the video cards at any point after changing the /etc/X11/xorg.conf file to use the ati driver instead of the svga one if it is what the Diamond Speedstar is using? Backup the original just incase the modelines are not compatible( thou

Re:

[Almost-Retired]

ISTR that card did run at 1600x1200 during an earlier install of Brain Dead Install, but this has worked moderately well.

The main impediment to doing it right now is my age & diabetes, by the time I'd get it done now, my feet would be screaming cuz there's no heat in the shop, at least not enough to be comfortable. There is a heater, a small electric set to keep it above freezing if it can and which is currently attempting to also dry some 3x8 white ash planks I have clamped to a steel framework so the

Re:

[Locutus]

I've spent some time in 20 deg and even negative numbers so I know where you're coming from. The other health issues can only make that memory pale in comparison so I understand. Good luck with the work when it's warmer.

Re:

[msuarezalvarez]

If you think that gnome (or kde) is "a window manager, a small, easily replaced component", you have no idea what you are talking about.

Re:

[msuarezalvarez]

Hm. If you think that a DE "is a small, easily replaced component", you have no idea what you are talking about.

Re:

[Locutus]

Maybe I didn't say it clearly, the reason they should make some kind of deal is because Ubuntu is a very popular distro and has a supported KDE version. If LTS support is a key point in the decision process for many businesses/users/etc picking Ubuntu over others, not having a KDE version for the next 3 years is going to lose KDE many customers/users.

but hey, if they do what they do for the fun of it and don't care how many use their product(s), go ahead and don't provide security and major bug fixes for th

Re:Not suprising

[Simon80]

I recently wrote a patch to fix a particularly egregious bug in Kopete 3.5 (the history search feature being totally and unnecessarily slow), and the response I got when I submitted the patch to the mailing list was that it would be pointless to apply it, they're not making any more releases of that branch. So there are people around to maintain stuff, but apparently nobody around to release it.

Submit it to Debian!

[gottabeme]

Ooh, ooh! I use Kopete, and Debian. Please, submit your patch to Debian (or I will be glad to do it for you)! Debian often includes patches that upstream has yet to apply. And if Debian patches it, it will make it into Ubuntu as well (assuming they also include KDE 3.5.x in Kubuntu 8.10; it could also end up in their backports).

Re:

[Simon80]

I've made a bug at http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=458419 [debian.org], debdiff included!

ubuntu shmoobuntu

[FudRucker]

ubuntu wants to kick a release out the door every 6 months, i think it would be wise to release once a year and no more frequent than that, the rest of the Linux distros & community works at a slower pace than ubuntu wants to run at...

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[phoenix.bam!]

Ubuntu feature freezes all releases. For six months nothing about your desktop changes, at all. Only security and bug fixes are released. If they moved to a one year release cycle they would either end up hopelessly out of date, or would have to sacrifice desktop consistency without a given distribution. Ubuntu doesn't want to surprise users with an update to their desktop that changes functionality.

Re:

[empaler]

They're aiming at releasing twice a year with enough new features to catch the interest of the public, and only release STABLE every now and then. Next scheduled release (April 08, 8.04) is the upcoming stable branch.
KDE4 will probably be backported to 7.10, and will most certainly be included in 8.10.
The reiterate how above relates to your comment (sorry, I get carried away sometimes), the point of the twice-a-year release schedule is being able to make press releases and submit a lot of stories to Digg a

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[ditoa]

Personally I like Ubuntu's approach. IMHO Linux for the desktop can lose momentum very easily but Ubuntu seems to be keeping things rather stable. I have seen more improvements in Linux for the desktop since Ubuntu became popular than any time before. Perhaps it is just coincidence, perhaps not. Either way 6 months isn't an outrageously quick turn around time, I feel yearly releases would just cause everything to slow down.

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[ditoa]

Your comparison is idiotic, momentum is needed regardless of if there is a "race" or not. Momentum is needed just to get things done in general. I am surprised you do not understand this.

As for the pointless attack on "lusers", what exactly is your point? That the default configurations are too simple? How is this a bad thing? You can change it however you want so why complain? Because it is not how YOU want it? Linux still has many rough edges, making it simpler is important not just for wider adoption but also just to make lifer easier for people. Providing I can still change it, I don't care how it is by default. Having everything complex from the get go is just stupid, why make things harder than they need to be?

Re:

[Khaed]

Eh, I went from Slackware to Ubuntu because I wanted it to just work. My printer randomly stopped working and refused to reinstall no matter what I did, I spent hours reading about my printer and Linux, CUPS, etc. Nothing worked, at all. I bought the printer for its linux support. After a while I decided that it wasn't worth my time to fuck with text file configurations, recompile things, and in general be frustrated that no one had an answer.

If that makes me a luser, it's a badge I'll wear proudly whil

Re:

[Aladrin]

While moved from Slackware to Kubuntu for the same reason you did, I think you missed the troll's point:

'Lusers' prefer Ubuntu.

That doesn't mean you or I are lusers, just that if you ask a luser was distro they want, they say 'Ubuntu'. Of course, it also happens that if you ask many professionals the same question, they'll answer the same.

The reason is simple: Ubuntu is fixing all the complaints about Linux distros. Ease of use, painful configuration, etc etc. They're making Linux a joy to use for the n

Re:

[Khaed]

His account doesn't seem to have a history of trolling; more likely he's just a pissy elitist.

Re:

[Wowsers]

Mandriva / Mandrake went from a yearly release back to 6 months due to user demand. When it went to the yearly release people didn't like it.

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/21/2348253 [slashdot.org]

Re:

[petermgreen]

ubuntu releases every six months BUT three out of four of those releases have a short support life and are aimed at those who want/need to be on the bleeding edge. One release in four is supported for a much longer period (3 years on the desktop 5 on the server).

The problem as I understand it is that the current KDE situation has put ubuntu in a tight spot, they either totally rip up thier release schedule (which would not be a good thing for their acceptance in the enterprise), they pay people to do a lot

Re:ubuntu shmoobuntu

[SoopahMan]

Strongly disagree. Ubuntu is doing a lot of things right, and the recent commercial end-user available machines rallying around Ubuntu/Gnome shows it. If anything other projects should speed up to keep pace with Ubuntu.

The regular release cycle helps contributing developers to enjoy their work - they can count on finished new features to be out in less than 6mos, rather than less than a year, which can be pretty exciting. And it aids iterative development - a year between releases can encourage hail mary style development where you go big and failures are crushing.

Re:

[houstonbofh]

ubuntu wants to kick a release out the door every 6 months, i think it would be wise to release once a year and no more frequent than that, the rest of the Linux distros & community works at a slower pace than ubuntu wants to run at...

Base releases are every 6 months. (and some people still complain that it is too slow) LTS releases are every 2 years. (and some people still complain that it is too fast) In the Linux world, no matter what you do, someone will hate you.

I hope this doesn't mean

[Neuropol]

my fancy blue Kubuntu splash screen isn't going to work any more.

Someone explain how LTS works to Zonk?

[empaler]

... adding features "upstream" of today's products are focused on KDE 4.0, meaning that it's risky to release a long-term support version based on 3.5.

Someone's not been paying attention to the point of LTS - the point is that since there is no addition of major features, there's less risk involved, making it a better choice for those seeking stability. Zonk's next accepted feature:

FreeBSD - too many versions?
News.com reports that only damned fools would go for FreeBSD 5.5 - where no major features have been added for years. Server maintainers should get with the program and start download FreeBSD 8 alphas - it has something called superpages and network stack virtualization, and while none of us know what that means, the names are impressive.

Re:

[MMC Monster]

The problem is: if a bug is noticed in KDE 3.5.x in a couple years, are developers going to waste time fixing it?

Re:

[empaler]

The problem is: if a bug is noticed in KDE 3.5.x in a couple years, are developers going to waste time fixing it?

Then the problem is not new; 6.06 LTS is supported through 2009/11 (desktop/server), and if any of the old packages in that LTS needs a security update 2010 even though they've made point releases since... well, if the badge LTS is to be worth anything, Ubuntu will have to ensure those security fixes are made.

Apart from that, TFS refers to oo, shiny and not security fixes. Even MS will make security fixes for Win2K until 2010. If Linux can't cut it for a small handful of years with feature-free security u

Re:

[wanderingknight]

Yeah, but all the things you mentioned don't represent major application overhauls. They're mostly point releases, while KDE 4 is a complete remake of KDE.

I'd rather see them be honest

[Realistic_Dragon]

The Gutsy version of Kubuntu broke a _lot_ of things on my powerbook. Up until this release I was really happy with Linux on it, rating it well above OS X for geeks. Right now I'm seriously considering reverting back to Feisty.

So, with that in mind, it's actually nice to see them declare that something won't be working _before_ I waste time trying to upgrade to it. I can then make an informed decision about what to do, instead of using a half assed release that would disappoint me. Not meeting expectations is about the worst thing you can do to your credibility.

Re:

[gambolt]

just use debian. It's the same thing only the emphasis is on the code and technical perfection, not the eyecandy

Re:

[hawk]

Not only that, but the next Debian release will include KDE 3.0! :)

hawk

Re:

[gambolt]

why run a release? At any point testing is more stable than most of Ubuntu, which is based on a snapshot of unstable.

Re:

[A beautiful mind]

I run on unstable myself, for the past 5-6 years or so. I update once a week or something similar. The only time I had any problems was back in 2005(?) when an X lib update broke video playback for two weeks, but apart from that I had zero problems whatsoever.

Re:

[Cal Paterson]

Debian releases are slow. However, the testing branch is a "rolling update" distribution. There are new packages daily, and stability is good. Debian testing is actually very similar to Ubuntu; GNOME by default, very similar packaging system etc. In fact, if you pick the default settings all the way through the install, it ends up pretty much identical, except that because of the "rolling nature" you don't have to wait for a big release before you get all the new packages.

Re:

[kbahey]

I have been using Kubuntu for a couple of years too.

The problems I had were on the upgrade to Feisty.

An Intersil WiFi card that worked fine on Edgy stopped working on Feisty.

The slmodem driver for the HDA sound card which worked fine on Edgy stopped working on Feisty.

Apart from that, on Gutsy with a new laptop (Toshiba A200-TR6), sound is a bit flaky (plugging in a headphone, sound still comes out from the laptop built-in speaker in addition to the head phone).

Also on Gutsy, inserting an SD card works most

Re:

[ConceptJunkie]

Gutsy broke sound on my HP laptop and I couldn't fix it to save my life. It didn't work in Fiesty either but I was able to build a new version of alsa to get it working. And let's not mention wireless. I love using Gusty on my desktops, but for my HP Pavilion laptop, it's just not there yet.

I ended up switching back to XP, and I had to friggin' buy a copy because those bastards at Microsoft stuck Visturd on the laptop. Friggin' monopoly. If there was real competition I wouldn't have to pay because Micr

Re:

[mrchaotica]

I ended up switching back to XP, and I had to friggin' buy a copy because those bastards at Microsoft stuck Visturd on the laptop.

If it came with Vista Business or higher (and any decent laptop should have -- non-"business class" machines aren't worth crap anyway), it should allow you to "downgrade" (or rather, upgrade) to XP without having to buy a different license. And even if it didn't, if I already owned a legal copy of Vista I'd have no moral qualms about switching it out for a cracked version of XP

Re:

[ConceptJunkie]

It was Vista Home or the "You're screwed, Neener neener neener!" version. I would have expected the Business version since it was a decent machine, but as I always say, "Microsoft hates me!"

Re:

[Brandybuck]

The Gutsy version of Kubuntu broke a _lot_ of things on my powerbook.

Ditto for me on my Thinkpad. But NONE of those broken things came from KDE. All were (K)Ubuntu addons, enhancements, and the like.

My current assignment ends tomorrow, and then I will be wiping Kubuntu off the Thinkpad, and replacing it with a no-frills system (probably Arch). I prefer my KDE in the vanilla flavor, without any of the "improvements" Kubuntu/SuSE/Mandriva/etc. bolt onto the side.

Re:

[calebt3]

They upgrade slower.

Re:

[jesterzog]

Suspend/resume doesn't work as reliably (hard restart required every ~5 resumes)

I started my laptop on Feisty, and since upgrading to Gutsy I noticed that the hibernation was broken. On some further examination though, I noticed that this problem seems very specific to the Kernel. If I boot gutsy to the 2.6.10 kernel, hibernate works fine. Without wanting to imply that this should be okay for Ubuntu as a distribution, you might still find that it works again if you boot to an earlier kernel, or try comp

Misleading article

[csnydermvpsoft]

Looking at the mailing list message [ubuntu.com] linked from the article clears up things. Kubuntu 8.04 will not be "unsupported" - it will simply not be an LTS (long-term support) release. This means that it will "only" be supported for 18 months on the desktop instead of three years.

Also, the concern is not whether features will still be being added to 3.5, but whether bugs fill be fixed upstream. From TFM: "Will a bug in KDE 3.5 receive upstream attention in March 2011?"

Re:Misleading article

[theshowmecanuck]

Doubtful, as an AC mentioned (in a much cruder way), Trolltech is not supporting QT3 any more... or at least not much longer since they are now at QT4. KDE3.x QT3 and KDE4 is programmed using QT4. At least that is how I understood things to be.

Bottom line is that KDE3.x likely is not really going to be supportable till 2011. But who knows? That is a long way away.

KDE release and LTS

[Pecisk]

Disclaimer: I am GNOME user for eight years, but I recommend KDE for powerusers. Thanks God that we have choice.

Problem is very simple - KDE guys don't guarantee that KDE 3.5 will be supported next 3 years (which is obvious - KDE 4 is just around the corner and all development efforts will be channelled to it), but KDE 4 won't be useful until end of next year (basis is there, but lot of stuff must be ported). So it is kinda dumb situation. However, Kubuntu 8.04 WILL be released, it just won't be 3 years supported, aka LTS, but tradicionally 18 months, which is half of that time. After that, Kubuntu 8.10 release will contain KDE 4 at it's best.

So - not kinda cool that there won't be LTS for KDE, but still - there will be release.

p.s. it is a little bit sad that rather fine article summary contains somehow weak attempt to cause flamewar. Yes, KDE is popular, but also is GNOME - I know lot of KDE fanboys has problems to admit that (ohh, and it is similar with GNOME fanboys to admit that KDE is desktop of choice for many people, of course).

Re:

[Khaed]

How about not being a dick unnecessarily in regards to someone making use of a common expression?

Anything on the KDE 4.0 release?

[mobby_6kl]

Is there any info regarding how soon KDE 4 will be out?
I'm having problems with KDE under FreeBSD, but now Mr Yushchenko suggests [blogspot.com] I should just use the latest release. I'm not sure if 3.5 will do the trick, or I should just wait for 4.0?

Re:

[Brandybuck]

The latest *stable* release is 3.5.8. Don't bother with 4.0, because it won't be stable for a long time. I'm guessing six to nine months. IMHO.

What next for Kubuntu users?

[Just Some Guy]

I use Kubuntu and was looking forward to the new version. What does this mean for me? Will I be stuck on the current version while the Ubuntu folks roll out a nice LTS version with nice features I won't be getting, or will there be an "unstable" version I can track?

Failing all that, what's a nice distro for KDE power users and developers? I've been using Debian for ages and I'm comfortable with Gentoo (although I'd prefer something else). Any suggestions?

Re:

[Joe Tie.]

Going by the way kubuntu normally works, I'd be surprised if it came down to much more than adding a second repository to get access to kde4 packages.

Re:

[Dragonslicer]

From what I've heard, and I may be mistaken, KDE4 will be in the standard repositories (universe, maybe?) for 8.04. I believe the plan is to have two installation discs available, one that installs KDE 3.5.x and one that installs KDE 4.0.x. I would guess that installing the other version from either starting point would be fairly easy.

distro for KDE *users

[KwKSilver]

what's a nice distro for KDE power users and developers?

Since you are a Debian user already, have you looked into Sidux [sidux.com]? It is based on Debian Sid, but has been fairly solid for me, even though I'm no developer, or even a power user. I've used it for most of the year, since the release of "Tartaros" in May. Now, I have had problems with X breakage, but these seem to have been due to the ATI video card rather than Sid/Sidux, and I' am posting from a Sidux install. If you are a Debian power-user, you sh

Re:

[CheeseTroll]

The article wasn't really clear, but someone else pointed out that it most likely means that the next Kubuntu will be supported for 18 months, rather than 3 years like the LTS Gnome version.

Re:

[opkool]

what's a nice distro for KDE power users and developers?

I'd recommend you Mandriva.

Really, give it an honest spin. Get Mandriva One (Live CD, includes installer and proprietary drivers and all that jazz).

KDE is Tier-1 desktop environment for Mandriva. It is the default DE if you don not change any option in the installer.

The current Mandriva 2008 already includes a KDE 4 preview in the backports repository.

Of course, Mandriva includes all those nifty and OpenSource GUI management tools (the "drakes" in the

Re:

[cyber-vandal]

Unless you want to use WPA in which case use Windows XP.

Re:

[Locklin]

You're moving to Mepis to get three years of commercial support on the current version? Oh wait.. they don't sell that. There's plenty of reasons to switch, but this makes no sense. You can still get 18 months commercial support, and both versions of KDE are available in the repositories.

Basically, NO ONE can support KDE3.x for the next three years because the KDE developers will probably neglect it in 2 years. NO ONE can sell a rock-solid KDE4 distro (ie. LTS) this spring because it's simply not ready. So

Re:

[msuarezalvarez]

and which of those provide LTS?

Re:

[Just Some Guy]

There's Slackware, FreeBSD, PC-BSD, PCLinuxOS (gnome version too).

I'm quite aware that there are other Unices than Ubuntu, Debian, and Gentoo. What I was asking for was a recommendation; you know, along the lines of "I switched from Kubuntu to _____ and it was swell!"

Probably time to throw FreeBSD 7-BETA on there. It's good enough for production these days and I haven't run it as a desktop in year or so and am kind of missing it.

Disappointing Turn

[Jekler]

I think this move is a mistake because the goal of Ubuntu has been to lessen the gap between non-technical users and Linux gurus. This introduces another layer of complexity for those non-technical users. I think it's a mistake to mix LTS and non-LTS in same-numbered/named versions of the OS. They have a variety of options here and I think they picked the worst of the lot. They should just add it to a community maintained repository or a backport from the next version.

Someone with an active interest in Linux isn't likely to be confused, but there's a growing number of Linux users who don't follow Linux as an interest, it's just the thing on their computer. More than most other distros, those are the people that Ubuntu has been trying to cater to. I think they chose the worst possible option given their target audience.

It might seem ridiculous to think a seemingly minor detail could confuse or scare off people, but after years of working in support (and I think any support representatives would agree) you might be surprised at how easily people form mental blocks and shut down (mentally) when faced with any computer-related issue. When you walk someone through a process and a button doesn't say exactly what you indicate, they panic. To them "END" is not the same as "FINISH" or "DONE, even though they should all mentally register as a word signifying completion. And then they won't even tell you the name of the button that appeared on their screen, they'll only tell you that they don't see the one you said, like you're playing some sort of sadistic "I Spy" riddle game. Sorry for the digression. Old trauma.

(I'm not knocking Ubuntu for catering to non-technical users. I prefer Ubuntu myself, though I've been a Linux user much longer.)

Re:

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:

[mabhatter654]

You are assuming that "IT" people are technical!!! I understand what the parent is saying. Mixing Ubuntu LTS and Kbuntu not LTS is a mistake. I know a lot of IT people that can barely keep windows version separate, that's part of Microsoft's problems getting things fixed over on their side. Let alone expect those same "wintel" admins to keep Ubuntu versions straight? The idea is that a commercial or large scale app can port to that version and know everybody is the same. While 75% of the code is the s

Re:

[mrchaotica]

Let alone expect those same "wintel" admins to keep Ubuntu versions straight?

If they're Windows admins, then what the fuck are they doing installing [K]Ubuntu anyway?

I say either the admins are competent or they're not. If their job requires supporting [K]Ubuntu, then they should either learn how to do it or get replaced by people who can. This is not [K]Ubuntu's problem!

Re:

[Jekler]

The alternative I'd do is to release Kubuntu 8.04 with LTS using KDE 3.5 for the desktop environment, and place KDE 4.0 in the universe repository. That way, people who know about, and want, KDE 4.0 could get it easily. People with LTS already can't receive support for software obtained from the universe repository, so it creates no conflicts at all.

And yet the question remains:

[shrikel]

KDE or emacs?

Re:And yet the question remains:

[MarkRose]

Haven't they already integrated KDE into emacs yet?

Re:

[haeger]

I'd go for KDE since Emacs still needs a decent text editor. ;-)

.haeger

I still don't get it

[realdodgeman]

I can see that Kubuntu 8.04 will be released without LTS. Fair enough.

But this is just confusing. Will it use KDE 3.5, or will it use KDE 4.0?

Re:I still don't get it

[dasmoo]

It'll be using 3.5. Long term support is not offered because upstream won't be prioritizing fixes for 3.5 bugs in three years time

I can understand why.

[shadylookin]

I imagine a lot of Ubuntu's users don't want to be guinea pigs for KDE 4, and to claim 3 years support for something that will only be supported for a fraction of that time would be dishonest. Besides 18 months of support isn't that bad considering with Ubuntu's 6 month release schedule they'll be on something like 10.2 before support for 8.4 will be gone.

Plasma is revolutionary

[m0llusk]

Even after KDE 4.0 is released it will take some time for Plasma to mature and accumulate useful accessories, but the real issue is how long it will take for other systems to either pick up or in some way duplicate Plasma as they almost certainly will.

Right now is not the time...

[Kjella]

I use Kubuntu. Right now KDE is in a major transition phase, moving from KDE3/qt3 to KDE4/qt4 is a bigger change than Gnome has ever done, seriously. While a few things survive porting it's fairly close to a rewrite of everyting KDE is. Supporting KDE4 for a LTS is a "no way" kind of thing, it'll barely be released and KDE has some creative defintions of RC. The only real option would be supporting KDE 3.5, which while I think would be good it something upstream may or may not do. After all, "kubuntu" will support all the server packages in Ubuntu, just not KDE. If they've been recültant to promise 3 years support, I certainly understand why Canonical would. When push comes to shove, they really don't want to sell much more than what upstream provides anyway.

My gift.

[haeger]

On release-day I'll send some money to KDE for their effort and their dedication. I can spare $10 and I'm sure some of you can too. Let's do it and not just talk about it.

It would be interestng to see if we can make a donation that stands out when the new and improved KDE is released.

.haeger

Bullsh*t!

[Brandybuck]

This is bullshit! KDE 3.5 is perfectly acceptable. The fact that a new version is coming out sometime in the future is a idiot reason to drop support. "Old" versions of software don't just vanish on release dates. Who they hell died and made Ubuntu the god of release dates? Is this going to happen for any piece of software that happens to have a release date close to Ubuntu's? Or is this only the case for KDE because Ubuntu is GNOME centric?

Re:News?

[BlueParrot]

Previously kubuntu release have been synchronous with the ubuntu releases, this decision breaks that pattern which is why it is news. It looks as if ubuntu and kubuntu may actually diverge enough to become separate distributions.

Re:

[h4rm0ny]

Oh fantastic. No kidding - guess what I decided to install on my new computer this afternoon! :D

Kubuntu 8.04 still coming

[HeroreV]

Kubuntu 8.04 is still planned to be released alongside Ubuntu 8.04, just without long-term service as previously planned. That just means the Gnome stuff in 8.04 will receive security updates longer than the KDE stuff in 8.04.

LTS

[imtheguru]

It relates to Long term support. KDE delayed the release of 4.0 for ubuntu 7.10 (october). It cannot thus be included in the LTS version coming out next year. This is mostly KDE's own fault for not meeting their projected deadlines.

Cheers.

Re:LTS

[mabhatter654]

or rather KED is "done when it's done" and Ubuntu needs a full cycle of completion before they'll claim LTS status for KED 4. In this case KDE 4 will only have been released 3 months before Canonical has to make a decision on wether to be tied to that release for 5 years. Ubuntu is much smaller than Red Hat or Suse and they don't want to play the games of supporting backports and cross-grades like done with the various boxed versions of Suse or RHEL. They waited until an odd time to release that's on nobody else's schedule.. The more politically correct thing might be to delay the LTS release in general then fewer feelings would be hurt.

The situation is not that KDE 4 is "not supported" but the combo in 8.04 will include BOTH 3.5 and 4.0! but only for the standard 18 months. Then the 8.10 will be fully supported for 4.0 only and probably LTS as well. It's a matter of Canonical not wanting to be tied up supporting bleeding edge releases just yet. Remember, Red Hat and Suse don't SUPPORT the free versions for customers, only the carefully limited pay-for versions and if you go "off the reservation" with upstream updates, they tell you to reinstall the base just like other commercial OS vendors do. Part of the Ubuntu experience is that there is no artificial divide between the "open source" and the "tweaked" versions.. it's their stated interest to work CLOSER to the upstream source, not wall their stuff off to versions they have to babysit for 5 years like RH or Suse has.

Re:

[Hucko]

A new operating system. Runs all know programs regardless of architecture. But then your soul belongs to the "evil one".

Re:

[argiedot]

It's a desktop based on the QT (QED Toolkit), and is extensively used in the field of mathematics.

Re:

[mabhatter654]

the more I use Knoppix vs Ubuntu the more Gnome seems limited.. but KDE is too wide open.

The effect of Suse or Mandriva releases I've used was to reskin half of KDE to make it "simpler" but then leave you digging for options in the other half they didn't feel like updating. Neither distro reskins the same things either. The effect is that most KDE "fans" end up using the bog default version and adding their own customizations to it.

While that's great for everybody to have their own, it sucks for a communi

Re:

[domatic]

GTK already snapped up most of the cross platform action and troltech hasn't done much to go after it. Most QT stuff at this point is strictly Linux as "K" apps.. there's not much incentive to port to windows or mac because there are already GTK equivalents in that space.

If the OS X native port of GTK doesn't get its ass in gear, that is about to change. GTK on OS X means using X11. KDE4 apps on Mac will run native. About a year from now, we'll be seeing polished KDE4 apps on Windows, Mac, and Linux.

Re:

[jafoc]

i do agree, I think we should trust Trolltech more than Novell at this point due to Novell being "in bed" with Microsoft and the head of their cross platform projects being too much of a Microsoft fanboi and not paying attention to Microsoft's history of screwing their partners over IP issues. Mono, Samba, open office are all on the block for Novell to screw up by putting Microsoft "IP" in there "nobody" else can use.

While there is absolutely zero reason to have any trust whatsoever for Miguel or Novell a

Re:

[Locutus]

While there is absolutely zero reason to have any trust whatsoever for Miguel or Novell as a whole, the good news is that we have no need to trust them. If they do something nasty to GTK or any other important parts of Gnome, we'll fork.

While that sounds just fine if you're a single user out banging on the keyboard at home, try telling that to a hospital IT department after they've gone through the hardship of moving everything from Windows to Linux/Gnome. If you want to put a putrid taste toward Linux an

Re:

[jafoc]

If you want to put a putrid taste toward Linux and OSS in managements mouth, do what you are saying, "we'll fork".

When talking with customers I'd of course explain to them what that means from their perspective, namely a kind of insurance against bad management decisions in the projects that develop the software they use.

Re:

[Locutus]

hmmm, talking about the need for an insurance against a products bad management decisions and how it could mean fewer developers behind their chosen product just doesn't sound like something you'd want to bring up at a sales meeting if you can help it. I doubt if any sales rep for a proprietary product is going to talk about such insurances and there is a good reason for that. It does not provide or provoke a feeling of confidence in the one who's got to put there neck on the line and make the purchase. Fo

Re:

[miscz]

This GTK2/Gnome apps are removed if I uninstall Mono via Apt:

• F-Spot (which sucks, is slow, nobody should use it and is not a part of default Gnome install anyway)
• Tomboy (that is slow also, is part of default install but the old applet is still there)

Yeah, Gnome is now totally dependent on Mono.

Re:

[Locklin]

Really? with commercial support for three years? oh wait... never mind.

KDE4rc is already in the repos... were just talking about long term support here.

Re:

[moro_666]

I have to second that statement.

With the 2 latest releases of Ubuntu :

* Take a shiny new lenovo laptop with ati x1400 graphics and try to "ubuntu it" ... it won't work. the "open source" ati driver doesn't support the card, the vesa graphics doesn't manage to display the installer window (because the resolution is too small, probably a vesa bug) and the automatic tool that lets you switch between resolutions and drivers just crashes along.
* Why why why and why does the default deskt

Re:

[Oktober Sunset]

ah, who's the racist now eh? Begrudging a poor gay nigger the freedom to express himself, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.