Asian Nations Battle for Google Data Center 130
1sockchuck writes "Google is pitting foreign governments against one another in a battle for a major new data center in Asia. In the past week, both the prime minister of Malaysia and economic minister of Taiwan have said their countries are leading candidates for the Google project, with Japan, South Korea, India and Vietnam also mentioned as contenders in an 18-nation site selection process. Google typically invests $600 million in each new data center. Tech companies often use multi-site searches as a tool to coax incentives out of local governments, which sweeten their offers to outbid rivals from other regions. Google's Asian initiative appears to be taking this strategy to a new level, coaxing heads of state to invest political capital in their lust for one of Google's mega-datacenters."
Suitable Privacy Invasion Laws (Score:3, Interesting)
Those countries that show any signs of implementing strict laws to protect the privacy of their citizens as well a enforcing strict limits upon how personally, psychological targeted marketing will be, will consider themselves right out of the running.
I would personally hope that Australia is right out of the running and remains so, it would be embarrassing to be considered a suitable data warehouse for proctology inc.
why do they need to leave the US, exactly? (Score:3, Insightful)
Google will be accepting bids from those countries that can show a long term commitment to the acceptability of the invasion of privacy of others and ensuring full legal protection for the use of that private data in any way that the googlite marketdroids choose ie. profits before privacy.
What makes you think they have to leave the states to do this? We've got people losing laptops with everything from nuclear weapons documents to half a million social security numbers with no encryption on them, and fa
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You also mention limits on personally targeted marketing. Why? I think it would be great if every ad that I'm shown on the web was f
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Yep - and the connection between Australia and continental Asia is pathetic. Given a list of mirrors that exclude Australia, Australians will almost always go for the US mirror over any Asian mirror - and rightly so.
And it makes sense when you think about it. Even though there's a huge amount of trade between Australia and Asia, the cultural barriers t
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Personally I would like to see the law revised so that companies would have to notify all
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I trust that when I take the train home tonight that the train will not go faster than it is safe to
Tinfoil hat time! (Score:2)
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http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/20/2144211
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=99/10/12/0717240
So privacy invasive much?
Googlefight! (Score:5, Funny)
Any one? (Score:2, Funny)
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The Great American Jobs Scam (Score:1, Interesting)
Next time you hear a politician bragging about how he/she pulled in "jobs" via tax breaks and the like, check out The Great American Jobs Scam (http://www.amazon.com/Great-American-Jobs-Scam-Corporate/dp/1576753158 ).
Basically, the job figures are always exaggerated and the whole thing is a ripoff for the taxpayers. If you want an example of a different "save the jobs" schtick, check out the massive half a billion dollar bill for Connecticut [boston.com], or more specifically, for Electric Boat.
The article talks
Re:The Great American Jobs Scam (Score:5, Informative)
New math? (Score:2)
Actually, its $65,789.48 per job, or $14.00 per person. Since this will generate 3 years' work for each job, it works out to about $21,000 per year per job. I'd imagine these jobs pay decent wages, and the government IS getting another sub out of the deal (which has to be worth something - so deduct ... I dont know - half?) Is it worth $10k a year to keep 7,600 jobs? Basically, it probably means
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Thanks for that, btw.
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Looks like the state of Washington got 14,000 jobs as a result of giving them a $3b tax cut. That's almost a quarter-million per job.
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The threat (Score:1)
Then again, in industries the country has COMPLETELY lost, why not zero out the taxes, since we aren't earning them anyways. A few come to mind: Textile assembly (where is that shirt/pants/corset you are wearing made?) and shipping. We have maybe 200 ocean-going ships that are US flagged, and mo
Obligatory Homer (Score:3, Funny)
Google, Watch Out (Score:3, Insightful)
Google has already decided. (Score:5, Insightful)
They've already decided, and are just using the "process" to extract whatever additional concessions they can.
Think of it, people - dependable power, lots of fibre, stable social structure ... the decision will be made on the best tech merits, not "whoever throws the most incentives at them." After all:
So, they've already decided, and they'll use this as a way to both get a few more concessions, and to help avoid bruising other countries egos - they'll find a justification "all things considered, their bid was the best."
You heard it here first.
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that $600.000.000 can buy you.
This is not about getting a free ipod. It's more about building a nearby powerplant (dependable power),
burying some fibre on tax-money (lots of fibre) or, uh, banning violent video games (stable social structure).
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i would pick (Score:2)
P.S. i am not Japanese (I am a Caucasian American)...
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It'll have to be in China (Score:2)
List of Google data centers? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:List of Google data centers? (Score:4, Interesting)
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Of course, but there was a time when SEO people and others were trying to maintain lists of crawler and data center IPs, and for some reason nobody seems to be doing that anymore on a larger scale. Or they do, and I can't find them, but that's why I was asking.
Wikipedia has an article Google platform [wikipedia.org] which mentions some locations. Maybe this is a go
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You'll have to do it from the ground because Google Maps will only show you the ones they want you to see.
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http://www.google.com/jobs/lunar_job.html [google.com]
Why not the Philippines? (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Filipinos speak impecibly good English with little or no accent. I have no issue understanding them.
2) Philippines is a very westernized place; it would be easy for a western-based company to work or conduct business there.
3) They love Linux in the Philippines
Re:Why not the Philippines? (Score:5, Interesting)
A very good friend of mine is a Filipino, and the first time I talked about RPGs he thought I was referring to rocket-propelled grenades. Seriously. (And he used to live in the safe area.)
Things are more stable now (especially around Manilla), but there are regions you don't want to go to. A lot of people also drive around in cars with tinted windows: the police are less likely to pull you over because they don't know who's inside and don't want to get in trouble for pulling over the wrong person. Again, better then what was happening in the '80s, but hardly ideal.
My best guess for the winner would be Japan, especially in a southern region. You don't have to worry about the government going into your data (like China), and most of the other countries are with-in a decent fibre run of Japan. Taiwan you have to worry about hurting China's feelings (and the possibility of an eventual invasion). Quite a few cities in S. Korea are with-in artillery distance of N. Korea (even though relations have improved recently).
India should probably get its own, separate, data centre, with a bunch of fibre connections perhaps going to the MIddle East (especially to the UAE).
My $0.02.
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there are places right here in the USA like that...
Really? (Score:2)
Haha, you mean there are areas in the US where Communist guerrilla rules? Or where militant Islamists are fighting for independence from the government with terrorist attacks, killings and kidnappings? I don't think so.
No,no,no,no. (Score:2)
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I'm replying to this post since I noticed it was being modded up. I am a Filipino. If you talk to any computer literate Filipino who plays games, they would know what an RPG is. They would know what FPS stands for. They might even know what RTS means.
The person you might have been talking may be a military or weapons b
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Well, in fairness, wouldn't the true geek context be RPG/400 [wikipedia.org], the tedious programming language I was forced to learn alongside COBOL and Pascal in college?
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No, no, you guys are alright. I'm fairly certain that the earlier Token Filipino was deadpanning to an obviously clueless American.
[Not a Filipino, I just play one in karoake bars. ;-) ]
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Our rebels here dont even have RPGs.
Probably you asked someone who have watched movies like Black Hawk Down, who played games like CounterStrike, and an airsoft player.
Don't be too quick to conclude that we are exposed with weapons.
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That rules out Korea, regardless of possible artillery damage.
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While they are one of our strongest allies in the region i dont think it is completely stable like other possible choices in South East Asia.
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Re:Why not the Philippines? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Why not the Philippines? (Score:5, Informative)
I am a Filipino. I am an employee of one of the largest multinational OEM computer manufacturers in the world. We have many expats working in our offices and they are comfortable working in our business district and other central areas of commerce, as well as living in our posh areas of residence.
I would say that the Philippines is far from being the front runner, mainly for the relative lack of broadband capacity in comparison to countries like Japan, Taiwan, Korea, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Malaysia. Our government, or even the private sector, haven't invested in our broadband infrastructure to make us competitive with other Asian countries.
The PERCEPTION of instability is another factor that works against my country. I say perception because the actual threats of military, communist, and Muslim terrorists and rebels, have never hindered the business activities of multinational or foreign companies doing business here, especially, if they are located in our business district or other central areas of commerce.
Most rebel and terrorist activity are far away from the capital, far enough such that, most Filipinos working in the capital consider it a world away. The problems in the south never enter our minds. We feel safe here, safe enough for many Filipinos to stay and raise their family, even though they would be qualified to work abroad.
The only reason why Filipinos would want to work abroad is their desire to earn more income. If ever I felt that my family would no longer be safe while we live in Metro Manila, I would have no problem packing our bags and migrating to another country. My brother works in the US as a doctor and he is planning on returning here. If it weren't safe here, I would advise him to stay there just as I advised him to stay there because of the dire financial status of doctors here in the Philippines.
Microsoft and HP maintain a presence here, and are steadily growing their workforce because of the availability of manpower and the excellent english and technical skills of my people. Many more American, Canadian, and multinational companies are setting up branches here in the country in order to outsource various portions of their business processes.
A bigger and more important threat to companies thinking of doing business here, has always been the financial instability of the country (mostly brought on by the PERCEIVED political and military threats) and the lack of buying power due to the low wages of most Filipinos. However, it is the low wages, combined with the english and professional skills of my people, that make my country attractive to outside investors.
What most foreigners don't realize is that we have posh areas and poor areas. You can live and stay in the posh areas without ever seeing the poor areas. It's like you can make believe you're in an industrialized nation. Just like people in industrialized nations are never aware of the poverty in other countries, you can also ignore poverty in our country if you choose to.
Trust me, it is possible to live in your own safe and perfect little world, here in the Philippines, without ever being affected by the problems in the impoverished and unstable regions of the country. Most of the wealthy people here do exactly that and most foreigners working here are considered wealthy by the living standards here.
By our living standards, most foreigners from industrialized nations can live like a king off of their savings here. They would be treated like a king or queen. They could have a big house with maids, nannies, a driver, all attending to their needs - which they couldn't get in their own country because they couldn't afford it. In our country they can because real estate and manp
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I agree, I lived in Angeles City, Pampanga, for six months, and although I sought out impoverished and rural areas in the Philippines, one could live in Makati, Manila, and never see them.
While I found the risk of terrorism and k
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Wealthy foreigners should never travel without bodyguards. They can be at risk anywhere, even in Central Park, New York, especially if they were walking by themselves. Foreigners would have no problem if they stick to the large malls or the relatively affluent places in Makati, Ortigas, Eastwood City, and Bonifacio Global City. They should always ask a
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I'm not Filipino, but I've been there a couple times and there are some reasons I can think of which make it a good place to house a data center:
;-) Of course they love Linux all over asia, but a lot of Philippines businesses are warming up to Linux. Also, they love everything about American culture there so it would be a fun place to work.
1) Filipinos speak impecibly good English with little or no accent. I have no issue understanding them.
2) Philippines is a very westernized place; it would be easy for a western-based company to work or conduct business there.
3) They love Linux in the Philippines
Good point, but unfortunately, Google is not trying to build a call center. The Philippines still needs to beef up its infrastructure. Strong winds often knocks out aging power lines in some provinces and causes blackouts that last for days. I still wish that Google would set up its data center here though. This would at least lessen talent poaching by Japan and Singapore.
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Well China just banned /. (Score:1)
do as you are trained... (Score:2, Funny)
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Just a question... (Score:1)
China reverse-engineers Google in 3...2...1... (Score:2)
I would think twice before storing *any* valuable information on China-based servers.
This is all pointless... (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I disagree very strongly with the sweetheart deal that they were handed here in NC. They are getting more-or-less complete freedom from taxes for a great many years on the facility, while sucking fairly large amounts of power out of the local grid, using not-plentiful water for cooling, and creating very few jobs. Little to none of the high-paying jobs will come out of the local labor pool.
SirWired
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A $600M infusion where? (Score:1, Troll)
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Do no Evil? (Score:2, Insightful)
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Unless you keep it secret that you're looking for a place to build it, governments in the area will offer incentives, whether Google asks for them or not.
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Iraq! (Score:2, Funny)
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Poor Taiwan... (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately it's really the fault of the Taiwanese government and it's companies. The government has done a piss poor job of promoting the nation. They have an agency dedicated to promoting Taiwan's industry, the Taiwan External Trade Development Council (TAITRA) which I've had the misfortune of dealing with on a few occasions; it's run by inept bureaucrats who lack imagination and commonsense.
The second problem is that Taiwanese people and companies in particular are exceedingly cheap. It's not so much that they cut corners like the Chinese do, but rather that they're not willing to spend a dollar more than is necessary to produce an acceptable product. This means their identity and branding is utter crap. It may seem insignificant but it basically insures that few people overseas every recognize the quality of their products. Related to that is quality product design which is sorely lacking.
Taiwan and South Koreans have comparable economies, and in fact, Taiwan has a slight edge in quite a few areas. It just that the Koreans were smart enough to invest in the right areas which has enabled their success internationally. Although, Korean companies did have the benefit of enjoying extensive government support which gave them the capital and flexibility to expand. Taiwanese companies have by and large been left to fend for themselves.
Another disadvantage Taiwan has is that they're lumped together with China. China produces crap so by default it's expected that Taiwan does too. Of course, it doesn't help that cheap goods were once all manufactured in Taiwan but then that stuff was once made in Japan as well and they've long since gotten over that stigma.
Taiwan has a strong economy; it doesn't have the growth China has, but it's far more stable and nowhere near as cutthroat an environment. It's got a stable government, the political infighting is no worse than anything seen in the US. There is some corruptions, but not really much worse than the US. It's nowhere near on the level of China or the rest of south east Asia. Again, it's comparable to South Korea.
The workforce is well-educated and they're hard workers. English has been mandatory in schools for a few years now. Even without the English curriculum many people can speak it. In fact, it's quite easy to get around on English alone, although being able to speak Chinese is always an advantage. Still, you'll encounter far more people speaking English in Taiwan than you'll ever find in Japan. Go into a McDonald's in Tokyo, ask for a Big Mac and they wont know what in the hell you're talking about. It's happened to me. Go into a shop even outside the big cities in Taiwan and it's quite possible to come across someone who speaks English quite well.
Taipei has an extensive subway system that's clean and punctual. It puts the New York system to shame. They now have a high speed rail line, thanks to Japan. This is especially beneficial considering that the major technology companies base their facilities in big science parks in Western Taiwan a good distance from Taipei.
Taiwan certainly has a higher cost of living than south east Asia and China, but I think the value afforded given their experience in technology makes it worthwhile. If they lose out on this opportunity I wont be surprised to learn it's because they've failed to market themselves properly. One thing that's always impressed me there is that when they need to get something done they just do it and they do it at a good clip. They don't get mired down in legal crap like we see in the United States and projects don't run excessively late and over-budget either.
On another note, Taiwan is extremely scenic with panoramas I'd argue are on par with anything found in places like Hawaii, especially in the east and south of Taiwan. If I had the opportunity to move back I'd take it.
This kind of comes off as a bit of an advertisement but that's because I'm tired seeing Taiwan maligned by people who don't really know what they're talking about.
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It's extremely unfortunate that Taiwan still has this reputation as a backwards nation and demonstrates the ignorance Americans have regarding the nation.
Ummm...are you responding to anyone in particular? Because I haven't seen anyone actually make that claim in this thread. Nor have I heard that for, say, the last 20 years.
The second problem is that Taiwanese people and companies in particular are exceedingly cheap. It's not so much that they cut corners like the Chinese do, but rather that they're n
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And I agree with you about service and their crap manuals. It goes back to how little they're willing to invest in these materials. Unfortunately they see these things as extraneous. As for service, it really depends, but too many p
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China may ultimately prove to be an economic threat, but they're so far being Taiwan that won't materialize for quite some time. They do, however, apparently have a better marketing machine.
No contest (Score:2)
India has that eight armed deity and the elephant headed guy, I suppose, but, nah... Japan in one round.
Anyone else getting scared of google? (Score:1)
Googleplex (Score:2)
Re:They only want the datacanter (Score:5, Informative)
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You know who else was elected?
(Even the US isn't a democracy)
India: User-pop/Democracy/English/Economy/Laws (Score:1, Insightful)
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I don't really see it as political stunt, Google is a company... simple. Evil or not, they want the best deal. It seems Intel are doing fine in Vietnam actually, they've sunk quite a heafty payload into the economy there and the plant is doing well.
Either wake up and see what is passing the old "power blocks" by, or be scared of the reds ta
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JFGI [google.com]
Re:They only want the datacanter (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? We have Japan and South Korea.... (Score:2)
-Malaysia: Muslim country. They allow some western media but they blacken, by hand, the bits they don't like (white bare chested ladies are their favorites). Political dissent? You would be forgiven for thinking there is any if you would watch Malaysian TV or listen to Malaysian radio. Newspapers are slightly better, but not much, they know how far they can go before been harassed. One year the government forbade political campaigning because it considered it a waste of mo
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Er... Politically unstable? You haven't seen politically unstable, my friend. I am a Taiwanese living abroad (in Canada to be exact), and seriously, Taiwan is like a lily pad in comparison to other places in the world. It has free elections, which while rife with controversy, does not approach anything I would consider political instability. It certainly beats a communist dictatorship - your pet politician getting voted out of office is a lot less damaging than a full-out military coup!
Taiwan has its own
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While I'm sure Taiwan is crap country to live in, like you said. There does appear to be 145 countries more corrupt than Taiwan: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781359.html [infoplease.com] It's leaders are not listed in the top 10 heads of state and it doesn't even get a mention in the Forbes most corru
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And worse, we have the NEP [wikipedia.org], a socio-economic program which will ensure that you will have to racistly commit a big chunk of any money you spend locally to incompetent companies run by cronies of the ruling government.
As a Malaysian geek i would love to see a Google data center in my back yard. But as a decent human being, i would urge them to stay the hell away.
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As Malaysian, I would love to see google Data Center in Malaysia, but i prefer it's in not so rural area such as my home town Merlimau. heh.
Since google love energy convervation, Malaysia got a lot of land near sea.
Google can use free energy using wind turbine.
Google can lease land from fisherman to build a lot of wind turbine for its data center
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