Tivo On Board With YouTube's New API

impuLsive writes "YouTube has announced they're rolling out a brand new API. The API will allow you to integrate YouTube into a website, allowing for features like: uploading videos, adding and editing video metadata, fetching localized feeds, custom queries, and a customized player UI with controlled video playback. Alongside YouTube, TiVo announced that they will be supporting the site's content via the Series3 and TiVo HD DVRs starting later this year."

Re:Tivo's Series3 is a ripoff

[SanityInAnarchy]

The remaining question is, do you have the skills to do this fast enough, and do you work cheap enough, for it to take less than $400 of your time?

Don't get me wrong, I'd do it regardless -- although VideoDownloader is absolutely NOT what you want to be doing from your couch; I'd look for whatever API they gave the iPhone and just stream h.264.

Re:

[Gadgetfreak]

Or the skills to do it at all. I'm definitely a geek, but I'm a mechanical engineer... while I physically built my computer, I've just never delved into Linux based systems. I just don't program anything, and rarely have the time to start from scratch. But TiVo has pissed me off enough to the point where I think I'd rather have spent the extra time to have something I have full control over, let alone not having to pay a monthly fee to use.

Re:

[martin_b1sh0p]

Just curious...what or why has Tivo pissed you off about? I have moved my Tivo to the bedroom (series 2) since I have a crappy HD DVR in the main room now. But I ALWAYS set up Tivo to record whatever the HD DVR is recording, because sure enough, at least once a month the HD DVR doesn't record something, or cuts it off etc etc...at that point I can still watch it in the bedroom...just not in HD. Tivo has yet to let me down in the 3 years I've had it.

Re:

[DynamiteNeon]

"because sure enough, at least once a month the HD DVR doesn't record something, or cuts it off etc etc...at that point I can still watch it in the bedroom...just not in HD."

My DVR does the same thing occasionally, but that's when I turn to the internet and bittorrent. Problem solved.

Re:

[Mi1ez]

Neuros OSD has been able to do this for a very long time now, too. Sure--this is a good new feature for Tivo but it's sort of something everyone else seems to have already done; makes this seem like more of a 'me too!' feature at this point but I guess most of the Walmart shopping non-geeks wouldn't know it.

Re:

[Nullav]

It's called 'spare time' for a reason. By the way, I would kill for a job that landed $400 for 2-3 days of work. Perhaps I'm just looking at it wrong, but unless I'm taking time off work, my time has no monetary value.

Re:

[NNKK]

Where do you live?

If you're employed in tech in the US and not making $400 or more for 2-3 days of work, there's a decent chance you're doing something wrong. $16-$25/hr is not particularly special, it's entry to mid-level pay depending on exactly where you are (in the San Francisco Bay area, it's not even "mid-level").

As for "spare time" having no monetary value, that's pretty absurd. For some people, it may be effectively true (though I'd argue most such people have the financial sense of a rock), but for

Re:

[Acer500]

I'm not the OP but I'd kill for U$ 400 for 3 day's work. Hell, for a week's work. I live in Uruguay btw :P (I make about U$ 800/month before taxes).

And yes, I should REALLY look into getting some of those outsourcing jobs you people in the US worry about :)

Re:

[billcopc]

Actually, my main reason for the DIY habit is that nobody can cripple my PVR but me. There's no feature lockout, no HDCP bullshit, no planned obsolescence or "unsupported codecs". I make the rules, and sure enough after running my current media center system for over 6 years, it's still going strong and being used daily with fresh content. It just works.

If I had bought a Tivo, I would probably have spent thousands on upgrades and replacements. It's not like they make a 2-terabyte Tivo anyway.

Re:

[mattack2]

Yes, they can cripple your PVR.

1) no cablecard support

Most people (not including me, btw) get encrypted channels. Having to use an "IR blaster" or somesuch is a really hokey workaround, but even then they have Macrovision or somesuch. I realize it can all be worked around, but you end up with more failure points.

Re:

[evilviper]

The remaining question is, do you have the skills to do this fast enough, and do you work cheap enough, for it to take less than $400 of your time?

It's a bullshit question.

Unless you're forced to do it all during your work hours, OR you work every waking hour of every day, you will have some "free time" (in every sense of the word).

What's more, it's amazing how people focus on initial time, and ignore the rest... How much money does it cost you due to the user interface (on every electronic device you own)

Re:

[SanityInAnarchy]

Unless you're forced to do it all during your work hours, OR you work every waking hour of every day, you will have some "free time" (in every sense of the word).

Then maybe another question is: Do you see this as a chore, or as a hobby?

My suggestion here was simply that for at least some people, it makes a lot of sense to simply shell out for a TiVo, because now you get to spend your time actually watching that TV, or whatever else you wanted to do.

The fact that I'm off the clock doesn't mean my time is

Re:

[encoderer]

First, this is a false premise. That $200 PC with Myth is NOT the equivilent of a Tivo Series3.

You can get an HD Series2 Tivo for $100 that supports up to 1080i.

By going to a Series3 you get CableCARD technology. You're not getting that with a $200 PC running Myth. You get OUTSTANDING HCI, both in terms of the software and the exceptional remote control. You get dual tuners, you get a nice LCD output telling you what's being recorded. You get a LOAD of Media Center features including stream Rhapsody a

Re:

[evilviper]

That $200 PC with Myth is NOT the equivilent of a Tivo Series3.

You're absolutely right! The $200 PC is infinitely more capable than any Tivo could ever DREAM of!

By going to a Series3 you get CableCARD technology.

That much is true. However, there are innumerable problems with CableCards, and simply using analog pass-through is both more flexible and can give even better results (eg. smaller files with potentially visually better quality through on-the-fly encoding/processing).

This is simple economics. Oppo

Re:

[encoderer]

I got this far: <i>You're the one who doesn't grasp economics. You obviously aren't going to be working every (spare) waking hour, so there is no opportunity cost here. If putting together a DVR required you work on nothing else 24/7 for weeks, THAT would be an opportunity cost. But that's not how it works. ie. No opportunity cost.</i>
<br><br>
And I stopped reading.
<br><br>
You just have no clue what you're talking about. EVERYTHING has opportunity cost. EVERYTHING. It make

Re:

[encoderer]

I got this far:

You're the one who doesn't grasp economics. You obviously aren't going to be working every (spare) waking hour, so there is no opportunity cost here. If putting together a DVR required you work on nothing else 24/7 for weeks, THAT would be an opportunity cost. But that's not how it works. ie. No opportunity cost.

And I stopped reading.

You just have no clue what you're talking about. EVERYTHING has opportunity cost [wikipedia.org]. EVERYTHING. It makes no difference if you were going to be working-for

Re:

[Gat0r30y]

I made a solid attempt to do just that. But, the POS box i got didn't have a supported video card, so that's another 100 bucks on top of the 100 for the HD Tuner. Then Zap2It got killed and none of my roomates could work the thing, so we got the crappy DVR from comcast at 10$ a month. As I understand it they have since resolved that and have a service you can use, just a little to late is all. Besides, TiVo isn't exactly marketed to those of us with the time and resources to do all that, its geared much

Re:

[morcego]

Well, I have the time and resources to do that, but I would still pay $200/$300 more. I'm also lazy, have lots of work, and don't want to worry. That, of course, supposing it works as I want it to.

Sometimes, even us geeks just want to sit back and relax.

Re:

[desmodromic]

Dude, the Series 3 is discontinued. It's replacement, the Tivo HD, is about 2-fiddy. And it does a bit more than just play YouTube videos.

Re:

[Wordplay]

Amen. I bought an HD for ~$300, and really couldn't be much happier with it. It has a Rhapsody and Unbox client, the Tivocast content is nicely geek-targeted (much comes from ZDnet/CNet, so you get Dvorak's talk show, DLTV, etc.). More to the point, the box just works.

I sunk $200 in for a lifetime transfer from my Series 2 and another $200 for an external WD 500GB SATA drive, so I guess I'm in for $700 total. Until the next big TV paradigm change, though, I don't see having to touch it again.

Re:

[0x15e]

Is there finally a Linux/Myth compatible HD tuner card with CableCard support? If not, they simply cannot be considered a viable alternative to the Series 3 / Tivo HD.

Re:

[glindsey]

Instead of spending $600 on a Tivo Series3 device, you can buy a cheap $200 computer, use MythTV to replicate what the Tivo would offer, put Firefox and the VideoDownloader extension on there to watch all the YouTube videos you want on your own time.

You're either a troll, or grossly misinformed.

Let's see what it would really take to assemble a MythTV system that could do everything the cheaper ($300, less if refurbished) HD-TiVo can do:

1. Record two HD streams simultaneously: Two ATSC/QAM Hauppauge HD-PVR cards will cost $600 total. If you want to record any channel that is encrypted, you're out of luck: no decoder cards (that I can find) exist that can accept analog HD video and encode it. (If they do exist, you'll have to hook them each up via an IR

Re:

[ouzel]

I agree with this post overall, but want to add a couple of comments:

1. I have used the HDHomeRun unit with good success - it has two ATSC/QAM tuners and can record two streams simultaneously. It records over your network to a destination such as a MythTV box. It costs around $170.

2. Outputting HD video to an HDTV via MythTV is non-trivial. So much so that I am going to try a TiVo HD unit for a while to see if I can live with it (been using MythTV for 4 years), because MythTV requires endless tweak

Re:

[glindsey]

1. I have used the HDHomeRun unit with good success - it has two ATSC/QAM tuners and can record two streams simultaneously. It records over your network to a destination such as a MythTV box. It costs around $170.

I'd love to try that guy out. Unfortunately, that doesn't resolve the primary issue -- there's no way to record encrypted digital cable streams with a homebrew system, and I doubt there ever will be. In fact, I fully expect that cable boxes will soon only provide HDMI connections encrypted with HDCP -- can't have that "analog hole" now, can we.

Re:

[ouzel]

Yep, I hear ya. I am recording from OTA signals only (no cable) so for me it is not a concern. I have been really impressed with the HDHomeRun for recording OTA HD signals.

Re:

[encoderer]

This is the benefit of the Tivo CableCARD slot. Not only can I record 2 HD streams simultaneously, I can record every channel I recieve, including HBO, etc, that are encrypted. And I don't have to use some crappy setup where I have an IR Blaster taped to the fricken cable box.

Not to mention, Tivo is the only setup I've seen that's been THX certified, that has an Optical Out port for audio, that has both HDMI and Component video outputs.

It's just a great, great appliance.

And it comes with the ability to get

Re:

[mattack2]

1) You're ignoring the TivoHD, which is $262.94 from tivo.com right now (cheaper if you go elsewhere)
2) As someone else in the thread mentioned, there is no CableCard support for MythTV, AFAIK. (Even with the Windows support for cablecard, can you do dual cablecards, enabling recording 2 channels simultaneously, regardless of OTA/cable or analog/digital?)
3) Even with MythTV, you'll have to pay for the guide data, since it's no longer free (though there are probably more hacks to web-scrape from online list

Re:

[owlnation]

erm... no, not just yet...

That will make sense once there's decent quality (and non-copyright infringing) material at a much higher resolution -- we are several years away from that being YouTube.

Although, I guess it's perfect right now if you normally tivo pets skateboarding or teenagers doing retarded things. Or you are one of the very few people who like to see slideshows of lame celebutards to a soundtrack of music that only a 12 year old could possibly enjoy.

Re:

[iamhassi]

"Instead of spending $600 on a Tivo Series3 device, you can buy a cheap $200 computer, use MythTV to replicate what the Tivo would offer, put Firefox and the VideoDownloader extension on there to watch all the YouTube videos you want on your own time."

True, but would it offer all the ease a set-top box would offer? A few years ago I'd agree with you, but for $600 it does everything without any troubleshooting or incompatibility problems. Maybe if you're poor college kid and you're the only one that use

How about just putting in a browser...

[goatpunch]

... and calling it WebTivo, or maybe just WebTV?

Re:

[WarJolt]

Keep in mind youtube uses flash. Flash is not open source. It is built for x86 only under linux. TiVo uses linux. I would assume that they would take advantage of open source linux browser like firefox if they decided to do that. They could use something like nspluginwrapper to run flash non-natively. I'm not sure tivo would want to support that. They'll probably just write their own stuff based off the API, patent a few things and make it proprietary.

If apples not going to put flash on their iPhone, I don'

Re:

[IntlHarvester]

Tivo is adding open access to h.264 versions of their videos, so people will be able to build clients without using the flash plugin. (This is what the iphone does.)

Re:

[IntlHarvester]

Oops. I mean YouTube

and so begins the end of....

[zappepcs]

those conversations at work that start out "did you see show_xyz last night?"

Television is about to get more customizable, whether you believe this is a good thing or not, if YouTube makes itself available to anyone that can plug in a box like a Tivo, well that means joe six pack will watch more YouTube.

Wonder what the response of the MPAA and others related will be? Outlaw YouTube on television screens?

Re:

[Microlith]

Wonder what the response of the MPAA and others related will be? Outlaw YouTube on television screens?

While this would fit in with the slashdot persecution fantasy, unless it contains a copyrighted work held by one of their members, the MPAA can't do a damned thing.

Re:

[Metaphorically]

Because we all know it's impossible for a lobbiest to write a bill and pass it to their favorite government official to sponsor.

Re:

[aussie_a]

Just like how CRIA couldn't touch demonoid because its legal to torrent music in Canada? Oh wait, they did manage to get demonoid shutdown? Guess the law doesn't really matter too much then.

Re:

[rsborg]

those conversations at work that start out "did you see show_xyz last night?"

More like, "Did you download feed_xyz? No? Want to take a look on my iPhone? Ya, I know ur busy, but that feed was so awesome. I'll send ya a link."

Watercooler talk will be more viral and less structured, and structure will now be organic rather than institutionalized.

About time... I'm looking forward to it

Re:

[aug24]

I think you're wrong. We've talked about this in my workplace before and come to the conclusion the release of a new episode of a well-regarded show (whether it's Joe Dickhead on YouTube or a new series of BlackAdder) will be announced by RSS (or its future equivalent) and dled/p2ped automagically before you get home. Then most everyone will watch it at some point on the same evening.

In the morning, at the watercooler and in the playground, the cool kids will still be quoting it. And I'll still be watchi

Apple on board?

[The Ancients]

I wonder if Apple will put this functionality into Front Row? It seems like a natural extension to what is already on offer.

Re:

[frdmfghtr]

I wonder if Apple will put this functionality into Front Row? It seems like a natural extension to what is already on offer.

I doubt it, since AppleTV already does it.

Re:

[enjahova]

Some one wrote a plugin for AppleTV to do this (even though the latest version comes with similar functionality)

http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/ASeriesOfTubes [awkwardtv.org]

I think there are ways to make plugins that work for AppleTV to run in FrontRow

Re:

[g-san]

I am seeing this as a defensive or aligning maneuver to Apple TV. Although Apple TV doesn't have a Tivo functionality, it has a YouTube client built right in. You navigate the menus on your TV, Most Popular, Top Rated, Search, then the videos play full screen. After the video plays, you get more links to related videos. Forget cable. This is funny stuff. You don't see kids blowing their hands up with Mentos and Diet Coke bombs on channel 3. I also don't watch videos about murders with no followups or sex sc

I'm sure they'll charge for that "convenience"

[Gadgetfreak]

I received a TiVoHD unit for the holidays, and while it has some interesting features, I'm continually frustrated at the nickel-and-dime tactics of TiVo. People often don't realize that TiVo, while still charging a fee for the unit and a monthly service fee, still has advertisements laced into it. The subscriber agreement allows TiVo corp to activate even more intrusive ads if they so chose to. And the "added features" on the box, especially PC-related features, often require paying for TiVo's upgraded computer software to do anything but the basics. And then there's the DRM and non-anonymous statistics reporting.

What concerns me is that TiVo is that these new "features" are just going to end up as more annoying ad clutter, and at every menu option will be a prompt to pay for some new feature. Just like so many other devices spawned of the communication age.

TiVo corp has yet to turn a profit, so I'm sure they're just looking for more revenue streams. I'm sure the latest software update will be just what I'm waiting for.

Re:I'm sure they'll charge for that "convenience"

[MBCook]

I'm going to play Devil's advocate here. I have a TiVo, I love the thing. I have a Series 3, which I paid full price for shortly after release.

I don't care much about the ads. I've been using TiVo since before then, and they don't bother me, I just tune them out. If they tried to stick in their own commercials, I would complain very VERY loudly. But adding a little extra item to the main menu? That's nothing. A little thing on their "you're done with this program, now what?" screen? Fine with me. The little "pop-ups" during commercials? Also doesn't bother me. If companies I cared about used them, I might click on one.

Do they charge you a monthly fee? Yes. Totally worth it. For that you get software updates, guide data, suggestions (which is what's most valuable). For the amount of TV I watch the the amount I love my TiVo, I consider it money well spent. You also get some of their services. The Amazon Unbox integration, the downloadable shows (like The Onion videocast), and some other things.

Paying for the extra features? If you're on Windows, you don't really have to pay for any of them as far as I know. That's OK. I don't care much about viewing my photos from my TiVo (which is free).

As for the YouTube feature? Kinda neat. I'll probably never use it. The only feature I'd like at this point is Netflix integration (especially HD movies). But that won't happen any time soon. I'm happy.

If you're on the Mac... they've forgot about you. It's sad. I'm on a Mac, and it annoys me. I used to be able to use TiVoDecodeManager (which was awesome), but that seems to have broken with Leopard. You could pay $100 to get some piece of junk from Roxio... but at least the option is there. Even that wasn't available just a few years ago.

As for their revenue problems, I see a few reasons:

1. Dish Network - Stole their technology, advertised it out the ears, made a fortune, forced a lawsuit which they haven't paid up on yet (probably on appeal)
2. DirecTV - Held more TiVo subscribers than TiVo, I think. They dumped the far superior TiVo product so they could save $1 per month per box
3. Comcast/etc - Advertise their vastly inferior boxes as "Better than TiVo"
4. TV Guide - Have a junk patent on grid views of time. They sued TiVo, and now charge them a monthly fee and force the TV guide logo to be displayed on the boxes
5. Misc - TiVo has some expenses that could go away. They have to maintain dial-up accounts for all the boxes to dial in on (they have UUNet do that for them, IIRC). If they could get more subscribers over to broadband, they could cut the size of that down and thus reduce their costs

Re:

[jtdennis]

I'm using TivoDecodeManager on Leopard. What's broken for you? The only problem I have is if I'm queuing multiple shows, anything after the first has the file name all wrong, so I only do one at a time. But it's hardly unusable.

Re:

[mattack2]

I would LOVE to use TivoDecodeManager, but for me, it keeps downloading OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER.. i.e. it never successfully downloads. (And no, I can't carefully watch it and stop it at just the right point.)

TivoDecodeManager _says_ it doesn't support Series 3 or TivoHD, so I am not surprised there are problems.. But I see it working for others like you.

I have gotten web-based downloads to work with both my Series 3 & TivoHD, but it's a pain because the files are named the title of t

Re:

[glindsey]

Comcast/etc - Advertise their vastly inferior boxes as "Better than TiVo"

Actually, I believe it's Dish Network that's doing that, and to be fair, from what I've heard the DishPlayer has made huge strides since the buggy mess it was a few years back. It probably beats the DirecTV DVR hands down, but I'd be surprised if it beats TiVo. I haven't seen one, though, so I can't make a fair comparison.

Re:

[HTH NE1]

But adding a little extra item to the main menu? That's nothing. A little thing on their "you're done with this program, now what?" screen? Fine with me. The little "pop-ups" during commercials? Also doesn't bother me.

You forgot the ones at the end of the list of shows gathered together in groups, but you may be watching your shows before you end up with two or more unwatched. I was delaying watching Lost so a friend could catch up. There was an ad entry at the end of the group of recordings in the Now Playing list.

Do they charge you a monthly fee? Yes. Totally worth it. For that you get software updates, guide data, suggestions (which is what's most valuable).

I find I don't peruse the suggestions much. Regular TV spots clue me into new series well enough, except when they're advertised with reruns and premiere simultaneously with new episodes instead of waiting a

Re:

[rsborg]

People often don't realize that TiVo, while still charging a fee for the unit and a monthly service fee, still has advertisements laced into it.

I have a TiVo, and the advertisements don't bother me.

And I'm the kind of guy who won't browse without AdBlock or some equivalent.

I'd say TiVo's adverts are about as intrusive as Google's text ads, but maybe a bit more sly.

TiVo corp has yet to turn a profit, so I'm sure they're just looking for more revenue streams.

This is more worrying, I agree. But I hope the e

Re:

[gatzke]

I have been a Tivo supporter for years, but I think they are headed down the crapper.

My new TivoHD actually breaks down on occasion and needs a reboot (It loses sound and background colors sometimes).

They have not made switched digital video work (SDV). I can't get half the HD channels in my area because of this.

The PC integration is ok for me, but could be better. They still have yahoo photos listed, and they have been gone for months! Decent PC software would be nice, but I make do.

Ads? Bah. You see

Re:

[mattack2]

I hate ads too (that's why I Tivo virtually everything I watch, and used multiple VCRs before that -- to avoid ads).

But cable boxes are *far* more littered with ads than Tivos are. Is that a lesser of two evils? Yes, but IMHO Tivo has a lot of positives like the UI.

Implications are intense...

[Ralph Spoilsport]

The TV industry only recently acquired a commodity model like the music industry (little pieces of plastic), and most of its history, has been one of broadcast. If any website can route around using the a youtube API, and TiVo is in on it, then one should be able completely skirt the broadcast model completely. Instead of a "tube" going from broadcaster to audient, the tube is removed and then anyone can talk to the audient.

The only thing that remains are issues of "quality" that one gets from expensive productions (crane shots, long tracking shots, fancy lighting tricks, quality make up, good direction and acting). So, the funding would have to come from somewhere - the economic model would have to work - but if it is settled either through fees for DL or subscriptions or whatever, then basically two things happen: the broadcaster business model is mortally wounded and the advertisers that support it will have a harder time keeping eyeballs...

This youtube / tivo thing is a harbinger of the future of TV, and is a BIG step in the right direction.

RS

Welcome Google

[LordSnooty]

Sounds exciting. Perhaps the best brains in the business are now having an impact at YouTube? The interface is a lot better these days too.

sorry, could not resist

[mapkinase]

I am on your website stealing your adz!

Stopped Watching Tv

[BountyX]

TV needs to change it's one-way media style to something more interactive in order to compete with media like the interent. I think in the furture we will see TV intergrated completly online almost in a p2p fasion where users can share their 'playlists'. I hate to say this...but I think Microsoft is on spot. I think were heading into a Home Server type system where your TV recieves brodcasting streamed from a computer and supported by content you selected. I stopped watching TV in 2003 becuase of the grow

Yay!

[dghcasp]

Yay!

I'll be able to watch over-compressed, out of focus home videos at 320x200 blown up to 1920x1200 on my HDTV!

This will be a good feature

[Control-Z]

I've been waiting for Tivo to do this for some time, seems like a natural thing for them to do. They already support various downloads like Amazon Unbox.

Aw, it would so rock if MythTV supported this.

[grytpype]

Seriously. That would rock.