Computer Scientists Scour Your Holiday Photos 156
Barence writes "Hundreds of thousands of images on Flickr are being used to teach a program to determine the geographic location of an image, simply by looking at it. The program attempts to mimic the way that humans can deduce the location of an image by searching for visual clues, such as similarities to pictures or locations they have seen previously. In its current state it can guess the location of a photo to within 200km, 16% of the time — extremely accurate given the complexity of the problem."
Like Sex Panther... (Score:2, Funny)
Automatic Carmen San diego (Score:5, Funny)
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Divide by zero error. Program halted.
Re:Automatic Carmen San diego (Score:5, Funny)
Where pictures are taken (Score:5, Informative)
The paper [cmu.edu] referenced in the article has an interesting density map of where their 20 million source photos were taken (ok, so they only ended up using 200 or so of these). It says it uses a logarithmic scale, and seems to imply that the vast majority of photos available to them on Flickr were taken in one of only a handful of locations:
Ok so there are a couple more than this, and my geography is appalling, but these seem to be the only areas that are are coloured red.
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:4, Funny)
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Assuming that, from the 200 pictures set used to validate the program, the same amount of pictures were provided for each city (32 pics of each city) and that the program chosen then in the same proportion (the program identified [correctly or not] each city 32 times), you would have 16.6% * 16.6% = 2.75% chance of correctly identifying the city
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but when you have to roll this for 200 cities, also chosen by a 1d6 roll, you have two dies being rolled 200 times, and you want to know how many times both dies have the same value
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No, I think you're misunderstanding how this works.
Given that there are 6 locations where all (or nearly all) of the pictures being used were taken,
Deriving from this that the probability of getting any 1 of these right by random guessing is 1 in 6,
Given that the accuracy averaged over 200 pictures is slightly less than 1 in 6,
The computer does slightly worse than chance.
However, my guess is that the first given is not entirely correct ;-)
Dan Aris
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Actually, he kinda understands.... (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem is he just doesn't seem to realize that the chances of throwing doubles are 16.66%.
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Ummm... yeah. And it's still 1/6 times. You failed statistics, didn't you?
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And you do realize that if you throw two dice, there are 6 results out of 36 possible where the dice come up with the same number...
Also known as ONE IN SIX!
Wow, do you suck at math... (Score:2)
Let's say we pick the same city every time.
We have a picture. It's from one of 6 locales. We pick a locale C. What are your chances that you're right? 1 in 6.
We have another picture, and pick locale C again - chances? 1 in 6.
Another picture, we pick locale C, and again, chances are 1 in 6.
You seem to understand this concept when you say the chances are 1 in 6 when we pick the same location each time.
So, l
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:4, Insightful)
With the most basic of image recognition, you could narrow things even farther with things like, "Is there ocean in the picture?", "what is the height of buildings in the background?", or "how many people are in the background". One almost needs to ask how they got their accuracy so low...
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:Where pictures are taken (Score:4, Informative)
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point a) Halfway between NY and Washington DC
point b) Halfway between London and Paris
This should give them a better than one-in-three chance of being correct to within 200km, as long as their program can take a decent stab at guessing which of the two sets is the more likely....
Dude where's my photo (Score:5, Funny)
Within 200km, 16% of the time? (Score:4, Insightful)
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I could show you a picture of it, and you'd probably have better a than 16% chance of guessing. (Or you could just look at my profile.)
What I need (Score:4, Interesting)
heh (Score:5, Funny)
Re:heh (Score:5, Funny)
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Unless it gets it right, my friend. Unless it gets it right.
accurate... (Score:1)
cool (Score:2)
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Obligatory - I can get it within 6378km 100% (Score:5, Funny)
(Not counting those rich bastards who can afford taking a holiday on the ISS).
check your maths (Score:1)
OK, maybe you meant the through-the-earth distance. At the poles, that's 6,356.8 * 2 = 12,713.6 km. At the equator, it's slightly more.
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His math is OK. He meant his guess is "the center of the Earth" for every unknown location.
Yes, I'm an idiot. (Score:2, Funny)
That will teach me to post before drinking my coffee...
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Statistics is important (Score:5, Funny)
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Photosynth looks cooler (Score:5, Informative)
metacafe link here [metacafe.com] and TED link here [ted.com].
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Scientist make new discovery (Score:4, Funny)
Scientists surprised to discover it is possible for a machine to loose will to live.
Source code (Score:5, Funny)
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The irony...oh god, the FUCKING IRONY!
This is very hard (Score:5, Insightful)
http://htmlhelp.com/~liam/Hawaii/Kauai/WaimeaCanyon/ [htmlhelp.com]
Would you know simply by looking at the photos without the sign that this was not say the grand canyon? The whole correct to 200 km aspect is troublesome when the state of the art in computer vision cannot yet even answer that this is a picture of a canyon.
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To answer your question, yes, I would but only because I would know what to look for. In your case, the walls are not steep enough, too much vegetation and no thin grey haze hanging over the canyon.
Regardless, your point is still valid.
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Re:This is very hard (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, because there aren't 746 helicopters flying over it.
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Would you know simply by looking at the photos without the sign that this was not say the grand canyon?
Quite possibly. Although in this case, the answer was given away in the URL and so claiming "I would have known" is not really a credible claim. (I've been to Waimea Canyon recently.) I do a LOT of hiking and backpacking, and I tend to study the areas I am traveling through very closely. I surprised myself the other day when a blurry photograph of a trail was shown on the evening news and I identified
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You probably are also not special in havin
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You probably are also not special in having selective memory and/or reinforcement bias, which would lead you to recall that particular success, or others like it, and forget or disconsider failures. And we /. readers are also not specially prepared to estimate how many TV Viewers had the exact same reaction as you, except they erred the pictured location and then decided *not* to write about it (selection bias).
My ability to recall terrain is interesting enough to me that I pay attention when I try to d
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So, obvious differences:
* lack of river
* angle of walls
* color striations
But yeah, still computationally hard. The human mind is an amazing device.
Layne
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Actually, it's not as hard as you might think (Score:3, Interesting)
There's an upcoming paper coming from MIT on this topic, Recognition of Natural Scenes from Global Properties: Seeing the Forest Without Representing the Trees [mit.edu] that proves this isn't as hard as you might think.
To sum up this massive paper in a very small (and likely highly imprecise) nutshell, building models up from basic objects (the traditional method) is only one way to approach this. Using this method, you are correct; it's impossible to understand what a canyon is. Using the new global properties
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But i know a lot more than computers.
This all brings up an interesting point though... When you're in an unfamiliar place, but your friend knows the area, they can always tell you whe
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Yes, because the GC doesn't have so much vegetation growing down the sides.
The whole correct to 200 km aspect is troublesome when the state of the art in computer vision cannot yet even answer that this is a picture of a canyon.
The two things arn't related. You don't need to know it's a canyon to be able to locate it - you just find the closest match in your database and give that as the location. You only
Just checked on flickr... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Just checked on flickr... (Score:4, Funny)
Lies, Damned Lies, And... (Score:3, Interesting)
So 16% of the time, it's accurate to within one percent of the TOTAL RANGE OF ERROR. The other 84% of the time, you're on your own. I wonder if I could manage that kind of accuracy just by sampling colors, classifying them by terrain, and then just picking a likely spot at random.
Re:Lies, Damned Lies, And... (Score:4, Informative)
Radius of the Earth = 6 378.1 kilometers (from Google: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBS_en__230US231&q=radius+of+earth [google.com] )
Surface area of Earth: 510,065,600 km2 (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1T4ADBS_en__230US231&q=surface+area+of+earth)
Percentage of surface area that is land: 29.2% (http://www.physicalgeography.net/fundamentals/8o.html)
Surface area of Earth that is land: 148,940,000 km2 (same source)
Area of a circle = pi*r^2
Radius of "target" = 200km
Area of target = 125663.7km2
Number of "target" areas that could fit on the surface of the Earth covered by land (assuming too few landmarks to identify pictures take over water, so they will be excluded): 1185.2
Chance of being right by pure dumb luck - 1 in 1185.2
Layne
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The surface area of the Earth, not counting water, is 510,072,000 km^2, according to Wikipedia. So, that's roughly 5.1 x 10^14 m^2. Again, according to Wikipedia, there are currently 6.67 x 10^9 people on Earth. That translates to about 7.65 x 10^4 m^2 for each person! In terms that Americans can understand, that's roughly 14 football fields (or to choose a landmark close to me, a little bi
Good use of sn gobbledegook!! (Score:1)
Missing double blind (Score:5, Insightful)
1/6 chance = 16.67% chance.
They need better double blind testing and a more diverse set of geographical locations.
Re:Missing double blind (Score:4, Insightful)
Another example: The forests on planets on the show Stargate One, are they in Missouri, Montanna, Canada? Just looking at them will not necessarily tell you anything unless you are intimately familiar with the actual location.
A photo in Syntagma Square in Athens may look like it was taken in Central Park in NYC if not enough of the background was included. It will take huge amounts of data and photos to get anywhere close to what a human can do at this job, and even then it is limited to only what it has seen before.
Other knowledge plays a part too. London bridge is now in Arizona (I think) as it was moved brick by brick and re-assembled. Seeing the bridge does not now mean you know where it is
Hats off to them for working on it. It's a tough problem.
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I'd imagine great work could be done by examining light intensity and coloration (atmospheric red shift) vs date stamp on the image (working from RAW with some camera data), they could guess the latitude fairly accurately. By similar methods you could figure out pollution levels, thus narrowing the sample range further.
Additionally comparing geometry could help factor out region with plant recognition fairly well also. You're not going to see a saguaro in Kentucky unless you're in a botanical garden. They
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From the looks of the test selecting London all the time would have a
1/6 chance = 16.67% chance.
Indeed, not very impressive for London.
Look at this guy's [wikipedia.org] claim for basic audio analysis:
"Simply phonetics. The science of speech. That's my profession; also my hobby. Happy is the man who can make a living by his hobby! You can spot an Irishman or a Yorkshireman by his brogue. I can place any man within six miles. I can place him within two miles in London. Sometimes within two streets."
And that was almost a century ago!
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What's going to happen when the sample is poisoned (Score:2)
"Hey, Frank? Why are there giant palm trees in Washington D.C.? And why is the Washington Monument pink no...
Oh, never mind."
Random pick is correct ~8% of the time (Score:1, Insightful)
510,065,600 km2
*.33 = 170021866 \\Estimate 2/3 of earth is ocean
/ 3.14 * 200^2
=8%
Re:Random pick is correct ~8% of the time (Score:4, Informative)
Should be
Blue screen your pictures (Score:4, Interesting)
Street locations (Score:2)
Problem with flickr geo-tagging (Score:2, Insightful)
The even bigger issue is that, although some cameras now have GPS, the majority of geo-tagged shots are placed manually by humans who often get it wrong or deliberately place their photos onto a more popular location just to increase their traffic.
Moon Landing pictures! (Score:5, Funny)
Sexpanther (Score:2)
60% of the time, it works every time. They've tested it.
A Better Approach to Accuracy (Score:2)
I also wonder how well you could do by checking the photo's timestamp, then examining the shadows to determine the sun angle.
I once correctly guessed "Quebec" in a National Geography Bee when asked in which Canadian province a picture of a particular attraction lay. My clue? The sign on the front of the bus was in French.
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You need accurate timestamps to calculate that.
My camera does not adapt automatically to DST and I forgot to make the change myself.
Moreover, I do not think of changing its clock either when I go visiting other countries...
"hey, sunlight at midnight, must be in North Pole"
Automatic image recognition is no walk in the park (Score:4, Interesting)
The system recognized the photos from the training set perfectly, but did no better than random on images fed to it that were taken at different times.
Turns out all the training shots with a military vehicle in it had been taken on a sunny day, and the control shots without one had been taken when it was overcast. The system had been trained to recognize a different thing from what they intended!
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My research involved ANNs (specifically, Self-Organizing Maps, but I've worked with the more "traditional" feed-forward-back-prop nets I suspect you were discussing here). From my own experience, what the parent post said is quite probable.
I guess the folks in the Dutch military did
It helps.. (Score:2)
Re:It helps.. (Score:4, Insightful)
For the researchers, it probably helps. They chose pics that had either GPS or location information -- so they could manually verify where the photos originated.
If they started out with a bunch of pics they didn't have any location information about
Cheers
Poor article (Score:2)
How were the picture selected ? Pick the geographical center of the US east coast each time and you should get a decent result for example⦠TFA says it's 20 times better by random, but do they mean purely random (New York and the middle of the Pacific equally weighted) or random based on the distribution of the geographical locations of the set ?
What is the distribution of the results ? It
Google (Score:4, Interesting)
Generate some autotags.
What would be nice also is if they had a feature where if you labeled someone in a picture, if you uploaded another picture with that person in the picture, the program would prompt to auto tag.
I've been going through old family photos and it would save so much time if the programs I am using autolabeled based off details in the picture.
How human? Time/Location? (Score:2)
Endoscopy Gallery... (Score:2)
Or, at least, tell me if my piles are recovering?
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Well, the entire branch of software is referred to as machine learning. Meaning, starting with a given base state, and iteratively refining what the algorithm can "predict" about the data, it "learns".
Sometimes, you can only really discuss certain things by re-using terms that primarily apply to people.
I mean, it would be awful cumbersome to have to refer to