What Does It Take To Get a PC With XP? 513
An anonymous reader writes "Christopher Null tried to buy a computer with Windows XP pre-installed on it from the United States' nine biggest PC makers. His findings: You can get one, but be prepared to fib."
How is this difficult? (Score:4, Informative)
I constantly purchase Dell computers for my work. They come with XP Pre-Installed but they also have a Vista license.
Now for a normal home user, this may be different, but I've had no problems at all.
Maybe it's for the kind of computer...I purchase Latitudes, and precision computers. If someone wanted an Inspirion it may be different.
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Informative)
Corporate customers get significant leeway in their orders, especially if a contract was signed beforehand. Even without those, however, most corporate customers have access through Microsoft to Windows XP under Open, Select, or Software Assurance licenses and if the Vista licenses that come with the computer fall under the terms of those agreements, they may legally downgrade. (There may be some other situations in which a customer may legally install a prior version of Windows, but I'm kind of fuzzy on what they may be.)
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Even without those, however, most corporate customers have access through Microsoft to Windows XP under Open, Select, or Software Assurance licenses and if the Vista licenses that come with the computer fall under the terms of those agreements, they may legally downgrade.
The licenses that come with the computer are completely separate from Microsoft's volume licensing programs. Dell is selling you an OEM license for Vista that includes downgrade rights, which means you can run Windows Vista, XP, ME, 2000, 98, 95, or 3.1 on that particular computer (volume licensing is not tied to particular hardware). Large VARs and OEMs traditionally did not offer nor support any downgrade options themselves, but the corporate demand for XP over Vista created a significant enough market
Just downgrade from Vista business or "higher" (Score:5, Informative)
You can just purchase a PC with vista business or "higher". Then just install Windows XP on it. When prompted for an activation code, just use a code from another PC.
Then you'll find it often won't activate through the internet, so you call Microsoft on the number displayed on the screen. Then you'll get a representative and you'll them him/her you're downgrading from windows vista business to XP.
On rare occasions they'll ask you for the Windows vista business license code. Next, you'll get the code by phone and just activate it.
We use this procedure all the time on all of our new computers.
Re:Just downgrade from Vista business or "higher" (Score:4, Insightful)
Why do you Windows users think that enduring this sort of shitfight just to install your OS of choice is acceptable?
The mind boggles.
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Probably because it is easier to do that than get a wireless nic driver to work with a kernel change.
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Funny)
These come with ... a Vista license and disk to upgrade to Vista, should you ever want to.
And for some odd reason, the disk is wrapped in cloth, that when unfolded turns out to be a straitjacket bearing a warning label: You'll be needing this when *they* come to pick you up. And what appeared to be a EULA was actually some sort of release form...
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:4, Funny)
Well... we're happy for you? And impressed with your ability to brag about what you're able to purchase for your work?
In answer to your question, it's difficult because we're not you and are, in fact, normal home users.
I'm pretty sure that shouldn't have needed explaining...
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Informative)
Go to the Dell website. Click on the computers (either notebook or desktop) for Small/Home Office, instead of for consumers. There, you'll find a product line called the Vostro, which offers the same hardware as the Inspiron line of product, but a different aesthetic look/feel. The difference? On the Vostro, you have an option to upgrade from Vista Home Basic to Vista Business edition... last I checked, it was $90. One of the two Business options is to have it come with XP Professional pre-installed.
It's not hard. You don't have to lie. You don't have to be a business to order it. And you can order it through the website without having to speak to a sales rep. (though you can also ask for it over the phone)
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Interesting)
One more thing... you can also choose that option on the XPS line of gaming systems.
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Funny)
Only someone at our company ordered an XPS that has no equivalent XP drivers. I really didn't want to let them get Vista, but they were wanting something flashy to show off at presentations -.- They now want to install XP on the laptop but tough shit, I warned them in the first place, and if there are no drivers available, then the system may be pretty unusable in XP. There perhaps are hacked XP drivers or even actual XP drivers available now though.. is that a ray of light at the end of the tunnel?
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We have some HPs with that issue - you can get an XP license, but the hardware does not have XP drivers.
Besides, didn't you say your guy wanted something flashy? Vista is certainly that.
I just get kinda pissed off about people who ditch Vista who have never used it, who have only used early betas, or are trying to run it on underpowered systems, or who complain its too different.
Linux gets ditched by people who have never used it, find it complicated, have not used it in years, and who complain that such an
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Good luck finding XP drivers for any of nVidia's newer mobile graphics. I had to hack the .inf file to get the ForceWare installer to recognize my 8600M GS in my HP DV9825 under windows xp pro.
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Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not hard. You don't have to lie. You don't have to be a business to order it. And you can order it through the website without having to speak to a sales rep. (though you can also ask for it over the phone)
But you do have to pay extra for it, which is worse than having to lie to get it.
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Funny)
But you do have to pay extra for it, which is worse than having to lie to get it.
Only if your soul has no value.
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There's no such thing as a soul, so it can't have any value.
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Funny)
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souls are a fiat currency - they have value so long as everyone *believes*.
Just like every other currency system. Though that would mean believers souls are worth more than nonbelievers souls. Nonbelievers souls wouldn't have any associated value to them, while believers souls would have some attached a value. Basically non believers would have a zero or null value soul. The only usage of that I could see would be avoiding/attracting entities that collect what they see as valuable souls. Of course there co
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Funny)
stop replying with facts to morons.
it makes them look stupid and we can't have that in today's modern world.
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:4, Informative)
What? Dell's Optiplexs come with XP by default. No extra charge. You get a Vista upgrade CD with it.
How freakin hard is it for slashdottters to visit www.dell.com? Does it not work in Firefox or something?!? This whole thread is hilarious.
Let me summarize: Anyone, no matter where they work, or what they do, can easily order a PC with XP on it, especially from Dell. Heck I was browsing Optiplex 755 order specs yesterday (on a freaking iPhone for crying out loud) and was happy to see XP was the default OS...
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:4, Funny)
Maxwell, I'm not sure what you were looking at, but the only way I could find on the Dell website to get XP on one of their laptops is to pay for Vista Ultimate and then downgrade. The person who submitted this article didn't have an Optiplex in mind, as far as I can tell.
Maybe I'm just missing the magic screen where they make it easy to get XP Pro instead of the MS Vista Ultimate Sucker Edition, but it does in fact seem that Dell has not made it a simple choice.
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You can also go Alienware's website (which is now owned by Dell). I picked out an Area 51 and clicked "customize". Halfway down the page I was offered not one, but two XP options:
( ) Genuine Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 - DirectX 9 Only! [-$50]
( ) Genuine Windows XP Professional - DirectX 9 Only!
Doesn't even cost extra. I also wouldn't call Alienware as targeted to a corporate audience either.
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It's as if suddenly XP is getting the "Desktop Linux" treatement...
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we're not you and are, in fact, normal home users
I'm not you, and I, in fact, only use Windows at work. In my job role I basically get to tell people what they are and are not allowed to purchase in terms of computer hardware, so the OP's post is quite relevant to me.
I have seen at least one other slashdotter claim that they only use Windows because they have to for work as well. I've not seen many claim that they are 'normal home users'. I expect people in that category spend far more time watching YouTube or playing 'The Sims' than they ever do on slash
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Informative)
What the heck? This may somehow shake your current view of the world, but most people here are "normal home users". No matter what their technical knowledge is, no matter how many PCs they have, no matter what OS they use, anybody who isn't purchasing hardware exclusively for their profession is classed as a home user.
Do you meet the requirements for dealing with business customers? Are you employed to make decisions on hardware purchases (and if you do it obviously shouldn't be used privately)? Do you own your own business? Can the computers be depreciated on your tax? If not, you're a normal run-of-the-mill home user.
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Your not really well with grammar, much less anything.
Pot Kettle (Score:3, Funny)
> Your not really well with grammar, much less anything.
"Your"??? What was that about grammar again?
Re:How is this difficult? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I purchase Latitudes, and precision computers. If someone wanted an Inspirion it may be different.
Good thing the Inspiron comes with Ubuntu.
That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
They are so friendly and customer-focused that you have to jump through hoops to get the product that you want. Why do we put up with this shit when we wouldn't accept this from almost any other industry?
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
We accept this from almost every industry. Automobiles, appliances, internet services, telephone service, cell phone services(pay to receive calls? You all are nuts to swallow that), and most of all your government. Everybody complains like hell, but they keep on buying the BS.
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There is nothing stopping you from starting a competing company that doesn't have those problems. Or you just not purchase those products. Hey you can even setup a movement to get others to boycott such products and you do it well enough it may work. Yes none of those solutions are easy but where does it say Life should be easy, in any counties laws. The fact that taking the BS is so much easier then doing something about it thus it continues.
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We accept this from almost every industry. Automobiles, appliances, internet services, telephone service, cell phone services(pay to receive calls? You all are nuts to swallow that), and most of all your government. Everybody complains like hell, but they keep on buying the BS.
Americans PAY to receive cellphone calls? Can someone confirm that? Do people find this ridiculous, or is this commonly accepted?
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:4, Informative)
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Informative)
Americans PAY to receive cellphone calls? Can someone confirm that? Do people find this ridiculous, or is this commonly accepted?
Yes, it's true, and it's commonly accepted. The reason is a bit long.
Historically, cell phone service cost quite a bit more to provide than landline service, so someone has to pay more when a cell phone is part of a call.
Most of the world has taken the view that the caller should pay more when calling a cell phone, and that the cell phone recipient shouldn't pay for the call.
In the USA, people have long been used to making unlimited local calls on landlines.
Unlike many countries, cell phones in the USA (and Canada) do not have a reserved numbering scheme where the phone number clearly identifies that this number is a cell phone.
It was tried to have a reserved numbering scheme to identify cell phones and charge the caller more for calling a cell phone. The market overwhelmingly rejected it. People said, "You want me to pay more to call you on your cell phone? Get a real phone you piece of [censored] yuppie!" and refused to call. For market acceptance, the caller could not be charged extra to call a cell phone.
So, the only other person to charge for the call was the cell phone owner.
So, US cellphone ownwers pay to make & receive calls. On the other hand, it doesn't cost more to call a cellphone instead of a landline, and it usually costs less to make an outgoing call from a cell phone.
Frankly, many of you non-USians are getting screwed on calls. I once called my friend on her mobile in Sydney, Australia. My call had to cross the entire Pacific ocean, but I still paid less to talk to her than her mother (located in Sydney, Australia) does to call her on her mobile. Why? Competition and not having to deal with the local oligopoly.
Further, cellphone calls are getting very cheap in the US. Many carriers have unlimited plans for $100 USD or less - unlimited incoming & outgoing local calls, domestic long distance, data, and SMS.
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The vast majority of American phone plans are a flat rate for a fixed number of minutes, not a per-minute charge. For home phone service, it's usually a flat rate for an unlimited number of minutes (some plans even give unlimited long distance). Apparently, given a choice, people prefer paying the same amount every month instead of a variable amount depending on the calls they
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Wireless telephones [wikipedia.org] were invented in the U.S in 1908.
The concept of cells and handoffs between cells [wikipedia.org] were also invented in the U.S. by AT&T /
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Funny)
Well, when I'm at a bar, the bartender usually keeps on bringing me more beer when he sees my glass is almost empty until I say "when". I call it "opt out". The system works.
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Funny)
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:4, Funny)
Drinking milk is fine. Montoring toilet paper usage is another matter completely.
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
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cell phone services(pay to receive calls? You all are nuts to swallow that)
Not that I totally agree with the practice, but in defence of the wireless providers, you are using airtime and their network whether the call is incoming or outgoing.
That's not a good defence.
A better defence is "it costs more to provide the cellphone service, so calls must cost more. The people making calls, with the US numbering system, don't know if they're calling a landline or a cellphone, so it's not fair to charge them. Thus, the recipient of the call pays the extra."
In the UK, all mobile numbers begin with 07, and all normal landline numbers begin with 01, 02 or 03, so it's fair to customers to charge more for calls to mobiles. But, this means you can't move a n
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
They are so friendly and customer-focused that you have to jump through hoops to get the product that you want. Why do we put up with this shit when we wouldn't accept this from almost any other industry?
An industry related example: Good luck buying a power PC Apple Mac direct from the manufacturer. That's right - even if you ask really nicely, and even if they were still making them less than two years ago. It's an old product, and you can't get it any more.
A car analogy: Good luck buying a Jaguar XJ220 direct from Jag. It's an older model. They don't make them any more.
OK, so with software it's a bit different - 'making' them is as simple as copying the data, insofaras manufacture goes. But no company can make something and offer no help or support, period. That's not legal. If they want to lay old tech to rest, then that's their decision.
Yes, Vista is inferior to XP in many ways. Lots of new products are inferior to old products in many ways. If a company is done with a product, consumers do not have a right to force them to keep supplying it.
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with your car analogy is that you can still buy a Jag XJ220 used. It is illegal to resell old copies of Windows XP for use in new computers. Now if Microsoft were to allow that, it might not be such a big deal.
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
It is illegal to resell old copies of Windows XP for use in new computers.
The right of first sale [wikipedia.org] has been consistently upheld by every court decision I am aware of. Do you know something I don't?
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:4, Informative)
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Informative)
However, recently the first sale right was upheld by the court in the Softman v. Adobe case - Softman was the guy who wanted to sell an Adobe Product via e-bay. Technically, they said, if the license is "forever" it can be considered a product being sold.
From http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5628 [linuxjournal.com] :
"The Court understands fully why licensing has many advantages for software publishers. However, this preference does not alter the Court's analysis that the substance of the transaction at issue here is a sale and not a license," Judge Pregerson writes. If you put your money down and walked away with a CD, you bought that copy, EULA or no EULA.
More info in the wikipedia entry [wikipedia.org].
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It is illegal to resell old copies of Windows XP for use in new computers.
The right of first sale has been consistently upheld by every court decision I am aware of. Do you know something I don't?
The GP was incorrect in that it generally is not illegal to resell XP or other software. However, that is a bit misleading because most Windows licenses cannot be reused due to the terms of OEM OS licenses. The license is valid only on the computer with which it was sold so you're limited to selling only the boxed retail copies of Windows. Additionally, when the marketplace ignores the right of first sale (as eBay does), it make it difficult to sell the product even if you have the legal right to do so.
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Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Interesting)
If that's the case for gifts, where you've paid money for something, the case for right of resale would be even stronger.
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Seriously?
That might be the case in the US of A ( not sure, as my lack of knowledge regarding US law is surpassed only by my lack of interest in US law), but over here in good old blighty we certainly can resell copies. CEX, a large high street retailer of second hand computer goods, will happily flog you a used copy of XP pro or home. Link [cex.co.uk]
Try not to wince too much at the prices.
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It's still there, but that doesn't stop anyone from suing you for bogus reasons and proceeding to drag out the suit for years until you run out of money to pay your defense lawyer(s).
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Last I heard (a few years ago now), Jaguar had at least 24 XJ220's in a warehouse, the result of canceled pre-orders based on the prototype car having a V12 engine and all wheel drive. The production version had a turbo V6, rear wheel drive, and a 30% price increase.
Re:That's Microsoft for you (Score:5, Insightful)
cripes,. you can buy OEM copies of XP all over the place.
go to newegg.com and buy a oem copy and a mouse.
All done. Why did this even get to slashdot?
Re:That's a *monopoly* for you (Score:5, Insightful)
So we see in this example the difference - when you're a monopoly, you sell crap and people have no choice. Jaguar on the other hand had trouble unloading their stock, and I'm sure people with half-a-million bucks to blow on car simply went and got Porche's, Ferrari's etc instead...
So to simply state that you can't buy an old model car is missing part of the point. I'm going to suggest that had the car sold well, it could well still be available today. Porsche has been making the 911 for many years and will make it for many more since it sells very well. Ford (for reasons beyond me) tried to replace the Mustang with the Probe and the outcry from the public resulted in the return of the Mustang - now you can't buy the Probe. Coke tried New Coke, today we pretty much have Coke.
There's plenty of examples in industry where successful companies respond to customer demand and sell them what they want, and when the company goes off the path they actually listen to their customers. This is because they have to compete with other companies offering customers an alternative.
Lucky for Microsoft they don't have such baggage to worry about. ...and this goes for most of the other examples I'm reading here like cell-phone and internet service providers. The lack of competition leaves a lot of power in the hands of the company to do what it wants instead of providing what the customer is demanding.
Obvious answer? (Score:5, Funny)
An Internet connection.
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Indeed :)
I feel absolutely nothing about installing a pirated copy of XP SP3 on any new hardware. In fact, I fully expect Microsoft's lawyers to contact me asking for a list of all the hardware I've bought recently with Vista OEM on, so that they can give me a price difference refund for "downgrading".
Re:Obvious answer? (Score:5, Insightful)
If you're buying your first computer, are you really going to know the difference between XP and Vista? Are you really going to MISS XP enough to want it that much?
With XP? How about without Windows? (Score:4, Interesting)
I have been looking at ordering a new laptop. I have been considering the Lenovo IdeaPad Y510 with the 256MB nVidia graphics card. My plan is to wipe it and use Ubuntu (according to ubuntuforums.org the Y510 is nicely compatible out of the box.) I'd rather not pay the Windows tax.
Anyone know if I talk to Lenovo I can get them to sell me the laptop without Windows?
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Re:With XP? How about without Windows? (Score:5, Informative)
It'd be great if some laptops were sold with a blank harddrive
You mean, "Isn't it great that plenty of laptops are sold with blank hard drives." Go to pricewatch.com and check the 'laptops, no OS' section or google for 'laptop barebones'. They'll all be the original brands, Clevo, Compal, Asus, etc, and not the reseller brands, Sony, Dell, HP, etc. But it'll be the same thing and cost less. What you get with the big names is 1: a support phone line, 2: the exact same laptop with a brand name sticker strangers will respect you for being able to afford and, of course 3: Windows.
Assurance that */Linux has a driver (Score:3, Interesting)
Go to pricewatch.com and check the 'laptops, no OS' section or google for 'laptop barebones'. They'll all be the original brands, Clevo, Compal, Asus, etc, and not the reseller brands, Sony, Dell, HP, etc. But it'll be the same thing and cost less. What you get with the big names is 1: a support phone line, 2: the exact same laptop with a brand name sticker strangers will respect you for being able to afford and, of course 3: Windows.
4: Assurance that the operating system that you plan to install contains drivers for the hardware in the laptop. Is there a way to exclude laptops from pricewatch's results that contain a major component (e.g. accelerated video, WLAN, Bluetooth) with no */Linux support?
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Re:With XP? How about without Windows? (Score:5, Informative)
I bought a T81 from Lenovo with SuSe Linux 10 on it; no windows tax. That was direct from Lenovo.com
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Anyone know if I talk to Lenovo I can get them to sell me the laptop without Windows?
Ask them:
http://www.lenovo.com/contact/us/en/ [lenovo.com]
1-866-96-THINK
If they do, they'll tell you. If they don't, then they need to hear it from us that we want to be able to buy systems without the MS tax. If we don't ask, they will never know that's what we want.
Torrent (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:Torrent (Score:4, Insightful)
I downloaded a copy of XP to run under parallels from a torrent. It was a custom ISO that did not require activation or entering a serial number. It also gets the updates perfectly every time without complaint.
I had more trouble setting up virtual machines in VMWare at work with legit copies than I did with the pirated copy.
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Or perhaps (Score:2, Insightful)
be prepared to walk.
That's how I was able to order a business machine from Dell. I told the sales rep that it was either that or HP as the consumer end didn't have what I want.
The easy way... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
1) Obtain ancient boxen (at some cost)
2)Obtain XP >=SP2 (somehow...)
3) Install yourself
4) ?????
5) NO PROFIT!!!!! FAIL!!!!
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Re:The easy way... (Score:5, Informative)
NO.
The steps I've seen documented are:
1) Get an XP CD and key. The CD has to match the key (e.g., OEM CD with OEM key, retail CD with retail key). Just to answer a FAQ: Yes, ANY. Even if it's an already activated copy of XP, or with OEM versions, bound to another machine and activated. Heck, it can be activated through Microsoft, too. You just need a legic CD and key, regardless of whether or not it's been activated, requires activation, what have you. (BTW, I think you need XP Pro - you can't downgrade to XP Home... but I could be wrong (Vista Home->XP Home? I know Vista Buziness+ -> XP Pro).
2) Use that CD and key to install XP.
3) When you activate, choose the phone option, and call Microsoft. Tell them you're downgrading your Vista to XP, and give them your Vista key, the code that the phone-activation shows (and possibly the key you're using). They'll then give you a code to enter in to activate it.
You cannot do an internet activation (since Microsoft needs to know you're exercising your downgrade rights).
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I think you need XP Pro - you can't downgrade to XP Home... but I could be wrong (Vista Home->XP Home? I know Vista Buziness+ -> XP Pro).
According to Microsoft the only copies that let you downgrade are Vista Business and Vista Ultimate, there is no downgrade rights w/ Vista Home.
Article is slashdotted. Here is a mirror: (Score:5, Informative)
What does it take to get a PC with XP?
Our reporter tried to buy a computer with Windows XP preinstalled on it from the United States' nine biggest PC makers. His findings: You can get one, but be prepared to fib.
Christopher Null (PC World (US online)) 17/07/2008 15:58:43
I won't waste time rehashing the argument over whether Windows Vista is any good. The fact remains that lots of people prefer Windows XP, and they'll go to great lengths to get it.
The problem: Windows XP "officially" went off the market on June 30, 2008, and computer vendors aren't supposed to sell new machines configured with any version of Windows except Vista.
Fortunately for XP enthusiasts and Vista vetoers, the PC marketplace still has a loophole or two in it. In response to pressure from customers, Microsoft has made some concessions for people who really want XP, offering a lifeline for users willing and able to wade through the company's convoluted downgrading program. The upshot is that virtually every copy of Vista Business or Vista Ultimate Edition is sold with a license for XP, which a computer manufacturer can exercise to install XP Professional on any Vista Business or Vista Ultimate PC.
But just because a manufacturer can install XP doesn't mean that it will. And just because its official policy permits it to sell XP machines doesn't mean that its employees understand that policy.
To find out how difficult it is to get a new XP machine these days, I asked the nine largest PC vendors in the United States--Dell, HP, Gateway, Toshiba, Acer, Fujitsu, Lenovo, Sony, and Asus--about the specifics of their downgrade policies. Then, to see how closely the official story synced up with the reality in the marketplace, I called sales representatives for each company and asked them whether I could purchase a new laptop equipped with XP from them.
The verdict? Downgrade policies are all over the map, and more than a few rank-and-file sales reps have a sketchy understanding of those policies. Some notebook PC sellers make getting XP preinstalled on a new laptop a snap; others don't offer it under any circumstance. As a rule of thumb, your odds of finding a machine with XP and a sales rep who knows how to configure a machine with that OS are far greater if you call the business sales line instead of the consumer sales line. (Be prepared to fib and say you're planning to buy 25 computers during the next 12 months.) Getting XP via online purchase can be tricky, too.
Here's how each manufacturer's formal policy--and informal reality--shakes out.
Dell
The Official Word: Dell has one of the most extensive and detailed policies on Windows XP of the nine vendors I investigated, but getting XP preinstalled on a machine may cost you extra. The company outlines the situation in this blog posting, where the company explains that though the XP downgrade program targets corporate customers, it's an option for general consumers, too. Though the rules are complicated, they are in line with those of most other sellers. To be eligible for an XP downgrade, you must be purchasing a Latitude laptop, an OptiPlex desktop, a Precision workstation, a Vostro laptop or desktop, an XPS 630 desktop, or an M1730 laptop. The machine must be specced to come with Vista Business or Vista Ultimate, and you can downgrade only to XP Professional. You must pay a $20 to $50 fee for the downgrade if you're buying a Vostro or XPS; corporate clients receive the downgrade at no charge. The program is slated to run until January 31, 2009, but Dell says that even after that it will continue to make some enterprise-level exceptions.
The Real Deal: Alas, not all Dell reps seemed to be up to speed on the company's XP strategy. First I tried to purchase an Inspiron running XP for "home use" (that's not covered in Dell's policy, but I decided to try my luck anyway). The harried sales rep I spoke to told me, "We don't have any computers running XP any more." After some pushing, he acknowledged that "I think business has them" but ins
Vendor Lock In (Score:2, Insightful)
For whatever it is now, Windows wasn't all that great even 15 years ago. Very rudimentary, few supported applications and all that.
It was all the corporate adoption and the developer ecosystem that has brought Windows to what it is now. I'm sure with more widespread usage we can get Linux to be a
Try different suppliers (Score:5, Informative)
Does anyone remember (Score:5, Interesting)
when Windows 95 first came out. Microsoft were so confident that users would enjoy it they even included the ability to roll back to Windows 3.1
I wonder why they didn't include this option with Windows Vista...
Re:Does anyone remember (Score:4, Interesting)
Here's something shocking... Windows 3.11 (both Windows and Windows for Workgroups) outsold Windows 95 in both 1995 and 1996 calendar years. The reverse didn't happen until 1997. In fact, so many PCs were sold with Win3.1x after the introduction of Win95, catching software vendors by surprise, that several 32-bit apps initially released as Win95-only got back-ported to Windows 3.1x & Win32s in a subsequent interim release. (Case-in-point: Corel Print House from 1995/1996).
Your useless trivia for the day...
Vista vs XP (Score:5, Informative)
Not that a large discussion needs to be had here as the article likely pertains (OCIDNRTFA) to home ownership, but I've chosen to start using Vista at work as of about 3 weeks ago.
And it's, uh, fine. I have 2 GB of memory installed, Vista boots up to use half of that. Firefox, Thunderbird, Photoshop, server admin tools, web design programs are what I use mostly (and putty). The re-install process of everything got a little old with the administrator prompts (I run as a normal user, something I was reluctant to do in XP), but at the same time, it's nice not to have to choose Run as... all the time.
We use it at home on a laptop as well (the kids' gaming machine is XP) and aside from taking 30 seconds to connect to the wireless after sleeping, it's fine.
I think I just don't have any really high-performance needs, so Vista actually works for me. Whole Disk encryption is easier as well with Vista I hear, though I don't use it.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
And it's, uh, fine.
Uhmmm.....I'm pretty sure you're not allowed to say things like that around here.
Re:Vista vs XP (Score:4, Informative)
Good question. So far I personally have gained:
1) Actual easier use of admin rights while running under a normal user account and therefore better security (as you're more likely to run as a normal user)
2) The snippet tool (ok, this is just handy, and I'm sure is duplicated in lots of freeware)
3) Better performance monitor
4) 64-bit support (don't mention XP 64...that OS isn't really usable)
There are other functions I haven't delved into yet such as the easier whole disk encryption, single-image installation, etc.
I'm not saying it's worth the jump from XP, but having actually tried it from a user's perspective, it's not as horrible as I'd imagined.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Which is fine, Vista isn't the unusable brain-dead pile of steaming poop some would have you beleve, and it has some benefits over XP. I think you've named them all except for 1 (when you try to delete a load of files, any that are locked will show a prompt with 'skip' option).
Vista however....
hogs memory - you've seen this already.
hogs disk space (check your WinSxS directory, it isn't small. this is more of a big deal in this age of VMs and smaller, power-efficient machines)
Explorer will occasionally start
Such a funny name... (Score:2)
...if Christopher had been a Devin, I guess XP just got piped to /dev/Null.
So backwards... (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft: No.
You: Please..?
Why purchase XP at all? (Score:5, Insightful)
Alright this Vista thing has got a little out of hand. Here's a quick recap on events up till now:
1) Microsoft Released Windows Vista
2) Windows Vista failed to live up to people's expectations
3) People said "stick with Windows XP for now"
4) People complained about the normal driver and application compatibility issues
5) Somewhere along the line "stick with Windows XP for now" got turned into "Windows Vista sucks - stick with XP indefinitely."
So now we have people paying the same amount of money either way and going out of their way to pickup Windows XP. I could appreciate that position a year when issues still existed but those have all but gone today.
Vista is about as big of a leap as going from virgin XP to XP SP2. Meaning a few nice features but not really worth money. It has very few bugs and at least as many as XP currently does.
Windows ME was terrible. But let's be clear - Vista isn't ME. Because Windows ME was genuinely an unstable buggy monster as opposed to Vista which is just a very minor upgrade with a huge price tag.
Yes it eats more memory. SuperFetch converts all of your available free memory into better program loading times. These pages are marked so that they can be disposed of very quickly but when viewing a memory map it appears as if memory usage has skyrocketed.
Re:Why purchase XP at all? (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Vista SP1 runs slower than XP SP3 on the same hardware for network operations (copy, unrar etc). It's noticeably 'laggier' for general UI interfaces. There were some benches around a while back showing the disparity.
I've noticed it on a number of systems, I have 4 pcs currently with dual or triple boot (vista, xp, ubuntu) - all with 2-4GB of RAM, dual or quad core 2's etc, so it's not hardware lacking.
Mind you, if your hardware is anything less than ninja, vista will CRAWL.
I sysadmin a 1200 user network. Vi
Re:Why purchase XP at all? (Score:5, Insightful)
>> Yes it eats more memory. SuperFetch converts all of your available free memory into better program loading times. These pages are marked so that they can be disposed of very quickly but when viewing a memory map it appears as if memory usage has skyrocketed.
I know the theory, but it doesn't work in practice (at least not on my machine). When the system uses so much ram that you're hitting swap, you lose. Whether that's superfetch or something else, I really don't care. I just know that XP uses about 200, while Vista uses about 500-600 on boot, and the Vista install is brand new. And when I open programs that RAM is not freed like the theory says. The system just ends up swapping like crazy, which slows everything down to unbearable speeds and eats my laptop battery.
Sure I only have 1GB of RAM. But that's plenty for XP and plenty for Linux, so I'm not inclined to spend money on hardware to run an OS with zero advantages.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Really? All the Vista issues from a year ago are gone now?
Please tell me, then, how to get our HP Designjet 500 42" plotter working in Vista? Because apparently, HP has no drivers for anything newer than Windows XP for it (or many other older, but expensive large format plotters of theirs).
That alone is a great reason for our company to stick with XP Pro.
"Christopher Null"? Really? (Score:5, Funny)
Must be hell. Does he have a brother named Bobby Tables? [xkcd.com]
Tigerdirect (Score:3, Informative)
Tigerdirect still sells PC's with XP, both desktops and laptops. You can even buy a barebones system with XP (not preinstalled)
They have good prices too.
http://www.tigerdirect.com/ [tigerdirect.com]
Re:special favors (Score:5, Funny)
Hi. We were talking about how to get Windows XP, not your weekend plans.
Thanks.
Joe Consumer wants XP... (Score:3, Interesting)
To anyone who actually cares about XP vs Vista (Joe Consumer is probably just going to take Vista or whatever, and doesn't care), don't you already have tons of copies of XP already around?
1. Joe Consumer wants XP. I recently directed a "Joe Consumer" friend of mine through the steps needed to get a laptop with XP on it, because that's what he wanted.
2. I don't have "tons of copies" of XP around. Just Windows 2000. I've already been through this with XP, and still haven't seen a compelling reason to upgrade