Microsoft Considers "Instant On" Windows 440
Barence writes "In what might be a glimpse of things to come in Windows 7, Microsoft is asking customers whether they would be interested in a new 'Instant-on' version of Windows. 'We would like your feedback on a new concept,' the Microsoft survey states. 'The Instant On experience is different from "Full Windows" because it limits what activities you can do and what applications you can have access to.' Sounds interesting but hardly new: Asus and Dell have produced laptops that provide swift access to apps and data using Linux subsystems."
Finally some progress... (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Finally some progress... (Score:4, Funny)
No, the Blue Screen is the "Instant Off" feature.
Re:Finally some progress... (Score:4, Insightful)
I was actually kind of excited when I read the headline here. I thought maybe they were going to propose bringing up the full OS "instantly." This limited OS thing doesn't seem particularly useful to me. My Dell laptop already has an "instant on" media player thing, and I never use it.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Don't you dare hit the "Media Direct" button!
It'll hose your MBR!
I think newer versions (3 and up) don't do this, since they don't use the HPA method anymore.
There are guides out there describing how to dual boot those Vostro laptops. You can make a hackintosh on those guys fairly easily, as well. XP/OSX, XP/Linux, Linux/OSX, whatever you want.
Main power button boots into one, Media Direct button boots into the other. No more choosing things from a bootloader!
I would LOVE to see motherboards (and cases)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
This guy is going so fast he doesn't have time for vowels or full words.
Next Windows should be Windows Verde (Score:5, Interesting)
The green os. 12-18% better power savings for 'always-on' desktops. Sell it to the CFO, not the CTO, and leverage half the marketing budget to the Windows Green campaign. Don't bother with other features or capabilities. They are unneeded, and do nothing to drive adoption or deployment. (Sorry, feature teams.)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
The green os. 12-18% better power savings for 'always-on' desktops. Sell it to the CFO, not the CTO, and leverage half the marketing budget to the Windows Green campaign. Don't bother with other features or capabilities. They are unneeded, and do nothing to drive adoption or deployment. (Sorry, feature teams.)
You got modded funny, but that's a pretty damn brilliant marketing gimmick. Better than anything Microsoft has come up with recently, that's for sure.
Green for Windows Verde, then brown for ... (Score:5, Funny)
Presumably the box and ads would be green, too? Then maybe they could have a color-coded release scheme, instead of the letters and numbers used to date. A green campaign for Windows Verde, followed by a brown campaign for the upgrade to Windows Merde! :D
Cheers,
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Presumably the box and ads would be green, too?
Maybe, but recycled cardboard would probably be better.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The best part is that the screen would be green as well [windowsreference.com].
Re:Next Windows should be Windows Verde (Score:5, Interesting)
You are forgetting the benefits of instant login machines. Instant on and instant login saves 5-15 minutes per day of user time. GEICO used to insist that their employees were logged in and ready to take calls when their shifts started. This got them a class-action lawsuit over the non-paid work and overtime accrued by their phone reps. (are your company's practices as unfair?)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, I used to work in a call center with the same policy. I eventually told them their options were A) I leave my computer on 24x7 and show up on time and ready to rock, or B) I take overtime for showing up 10 minutes early to start my computer.
They chose A, despite B being much cheaper.
Re:Next Windows should be Windows Verde (Score:4, Insightful)
Too bad they didn't use the BIOS or Wake-on-LAN to turn the PC 10 minutes before your shift starts.
Re:Next Windows should be Windows Verde (Score:5, Insightful)
I imagine in most cases it's the login rather than the boot itself that takes the time....
Re:Next Windows should be Windows Verde (Score:4, Insightful)
Mod parent up. Booting up an XP machine is often a lot faster than the time it takes to login, and wait for the OS to become responsive as it loads all the startup crap.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I'm currently trying to find someone in Gitmo who is willing to trade places with me, but so far, they'd all rather stay in there than use VBScript...
Off by one letter (Score:3, Funny)
You're off by one letter
1,$s/V/M/
Grab your French dictionaries for that one, folks, and laugh.
Windows Merde!
Debunked for years. (Score:3, Funny)
I'd say you were beating a dead horse, but the horse has so completely decomposed, even the skeleton has been ground to dust and blown away. You're beating the ground where the dead horse used to be.
Re:Hype and Power management failure. (Score:5, Insightful)
After reading your journal entry, I'm a little confused on how you believe Microsoft "intentionally sabotaged" power management under Linux? Of all the evidence presented in the Iowa case, surely you have something more specific than an email that proves nothing at all other than Bill Gates' reluctance to release something for free?
Also, if your claim that Microsoft somehow crippled ACPI (and/or APM) to hurt Linux... how come ACPI works as well (or as badly, depending on your hardware) as it does on Windows? Specifically, if Microsoft, *BSD and Linux all implement the same open standard, how is that intentional sabotage by "M$"?
And, going back to your journal entry, I see you never did reply to any of the posts that challenge your interpretation of this problem. Why is that?
My opinion (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:My opinion (Score:5, Funny)
In all honesty, I love the multiple minutes it takes to bring up windows now. Instant on would be a detriment.
Oh my God, the fucking Comcast turtle posts to Slashdot.
Re:My opinion (Score:5, Funny)
"Instant On" Would be the worst thing EVER!!!
Windows is a great excuse to get up, get some coffee or tea, and spend the first 15 minutes of your day doing NOTHING.
Re:My opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:My opinion (Score:5, Informative)
Me, for one. Even new, my laptop took at least 5 minutes to load it up. My work computers are cluttered with stuff the IT guy put on it and usually has to restart at least once during the boot process. I don't have administrator status and wouldn't know what I'm doing anyway.
I think most of us users would agree that spending more time figuring out how to get our computers to load in less than 5 minutes would be a waste of more time. I would definitely prefer it if my computer turned on instantly without having to tinker around with it and likely break it.
(Note that I'm not asking for advice here, I don't want to mess with it and am fine with how my computers work right now.)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Me, for one. Even new, my laptop took at least 5 minutes to load it up. My work computers are cluttered with stuff the IT guy put on it and usually has to restart at least once during the boot process.
Has to reboot at least once during the boot process? So you're saying you never reach the desktop?
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
What are these "users" doing posting on Slashdot? BBC Weather is that way --> :)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
What are these "users" doing posting on Slashdot?
1. Trying to learn more about computers. I know, I know, /. is about claiming you know more than you do, not learning. I'm also coming to realize also that although people here can come up with a fix to any computer issue, it usually is much more of a hassle than the issue, only works in theory, and even then only under specific circumstances (namely, it might be able to work for the angry IT guy who suggested it, but if your machine is configured differently it won't, and by the way you're an idiot for n
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Join the military. Our networks push so much junk onto clients, it makes Core 2 Duos crawl.
I've seen boot/OS load times on clean installs go from ~1 minute to 10 minutes (after logging onto the domain). And I'm not exaggerating; I timed it.
Re:My opinion (Score:4, Interesting)
Funny but true. I turn on my computer. Go start a cup of coffee in the brew machine. Come back and type in my password. Go finish making my coffee. Chit-chat with some of my co-workers. When I return to my desk the Windows desktop is finally responsive even though it appeared about 2 minutes previously. Finally I load Outlook and that takes another two minutes.
So, 5-10 minutes of my day every day is spent waiting for Windows. That's 40 hours a year. Microsoft owes my company 1 week of my salary. If they were forced to pay, they'd have to raise their prices for windows and office a whole hell of a lot to be profitable.
Granted some of this is a function of hardware, login scripts that MS has no control over, etc, etc, etc, but it is a fun thought experiment.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
If this was for a Linux distribution people would love it. But because it has windows on it... It makes it bad.
Yes because as we all know... (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously is there anyone on
Jesus this is like Digg more and more everyday.
OK bitches mod me down now.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
> ANYTHING that Windows wants to do to improve sucks and linux has already
> done it, done it better, cured cancer, etc.
Actually.... Linux hasn't done it YET but almost certainly will before Microsoft can ship this idea. This all started with the embedded Linux distros to get around the long boot times for Windows (and most current Linux distros, lets be fair) and Microsoft now wants to play "me too!" but Linux is already moving on to solve the actual problem. Fedora demoed an Asus EEEPC booting to a
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Mod parent left!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Instant on UI (Score:5, Funny)
The UI for the new "Instant-On Windows" is a black screen with the text "C:\>".
Re: (Score:2)
I would have thought it would be:
Your group is currently "mkpasswd". This indicates that /etc/passwd (and possibly /etc/group) files should be rebuilt. /etc/passwd /etc/group
the
See the man pages for mkpasswd and mkgroup then, for example, run
mkpasswd -l [-d] >
mkgroup -l [-d] >
Note that the -d switch is necessary for domain users.
goodb0fh@b0fhmobile ~
That way, I can run mplayer and other things too.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Instant on UI (Score:5, Funny)
And if you choose A, you'll get three pop-ups:
"Are you sure you want to boot to application? Yes/No"
"Windows needs your permission to use this program: Windows. If you do not trust the source do not use this program. This program can potentially harm your computer. Allow/Cancel"
"Confirm boot-up to Windows: Yes/No"
Re:Instant on UI (Score:5, Funny)
How cute, an emoticon of a frowning bald guy with a goatee! What does it mean?
Re:Instant on UI (Score:5, Funny)
Maybe it means Steve Ballmer grew a goatee?
BSOD=Instant Off (Score:3, Funny)
MS finally got around to complementing their Instant Off feature!
Kudos to them!
WinTerm (Score:2)
Sounds like a windows terminal to me. You can be instant on, and lease all your applications from microsoft.
Of course, now that we have metered service back, that will again kill the ASP business model off, this time once and for all. ( just in time for us all having enough bandwidth to make it finally work, the rug was pulled out from underneath us )
Why give an option? (Score:5, Insightful)
Certainly there must be a way to offer these "instant on" apps while the rest of the subsystems load in the background. And if that's true then there's no need for an option, just always do it. It sounds like it's only an all-or-nothing proposition because they're copying the way others are currently doing it.
Re:Why give an option? (Score:5, Funny)
"...because they're copying the way others are currently doing it."
because they're innovating the way others are currently doing it.
Re: (Score:2)
Now that MS does not need to brand MS Windows, and in fact ran away from the brand with MS Vista, some work was done to get move to the desktop qui
Nothing new here.... (Score:2, Interesting)
Nothing new here....Headlights. (Score:5, Insightful)
"Why is it that Microsoft has no original ideas of their own?"
One could very well ask FOSS the same question. Any takers?
"The worse part of this whole thing is, Microsoft convinces the public that their idea is something new!!!"
Like Apple?
Re: (Score:2)
Apple borrows a lot from existing technology but I have never seen them claim that they invented it. Where people see Apple as a leader is that they have at times been a pioneer in implementing it before others have. For example, PCs started coming with USB (which was invented by Intel) around 1993, however Apple was the first to drop all their other peripheral ports besides USB (and Firewire) starting with the original iMac. To this day, most PCs motherboards still come with legacy PS/2 and s
FOSS is innovation - just a different kind (Score:5, Insightful)
People always claim that FOSS (usually they just mean Linux, and in particular the KDE and GNOME desktops) just copies Microsoft and/or Apple, so "where's the innovation".
Well, this is where. FOSS made it possible for Asus and Dell to think about instant on computing. With Windows, you'd only have it if Microsoft came up with the idea. With Linux, anyone is free to come up with the idea. Even people not associated with Linux development per se.
That's what open source innovation is about. Providing the freedom to innovate. Yes Linux is still playing catchup (to a limited extent these days) in matching mainstream desktop functionality and in keeping up with all the closed de-facto 'standards' that keep appearing due to the fact that the marketplace is still a heavily distorted Monopoly dominated one.
So don't expect a new desktop paradigm (which most people probably don't even want). But expect a host of new devices (EeePC, Android, TiVo, etc) made possible by the true open source innovation - freedom to reuse.
Re:Nothing new here....Headlights. (Score:5, Informative)
"One could very well ask FOSS the same question. Any takers?"
You can ask but I guarantee you that FOSS has more original ideas then Microsoft.
"Like Apple?"
Apple at least embraces the open source community and plays an active role in it.
Apple embraces the open source community with the most locked down systems and electronics made by any vendor not working on a defense contract. That must be a tight embrace.
Re: (Score:2)
I would think it comes from having almost no competition for nearly a long time. Look at what happened to IE after they won the browser wars. Now that there is competition, they have to shift from the strategy of defense to offense. The problem is in the meantime, MS has added multiple lines of businesses and find themselves unfocused without a clear strategy of what to do with so many fronts. A strong leader might be able to point them in the
Nope. (Score:5, Insightful)
Instant on is useless if you can't do everything you want; which is what this is.
How about an don't need to reboot version?
Re: (Score:2)
I'm curious, did you need to do a full reboot (like for a kernel upgrade), or did you just need to log out and back in, or maybe restart X?
Cheers,
I have a great name for this (Score:2)
They can call it DOS.
Instant on while it loads up the rest? (Score:2, Insightful)
Can't we have best of both worlds? Perhaps booting instantly a browser and basic apps, and then loading up other stuff in the background?
Or how about it loading up bits that you need, when you need them?
What an original idea - NOT! (Score:2, Informative)
What joke!
We did this with an 68020 Amiga 2000 back in the early ninties. We bought an eeprom board and burned the whole Amiga OS (all 6 880K floppies and the rom image) to eeprom then plugged the board into the rom slot. The Amiga came up within milliseconds with the Workbench screen. Of course if you tried to do this with windows you would need 100 gigbytes of memory to do it...
Ok, next original idea from Microsoft please....
Re:What an original idea - NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
No one said it was an original idea.
Does it need to be an original idea for them to implement it? Are only original ideas worth adding to an OS?
Re:What an original idea - NOT! (Score:4, Insightful)
"Does it need to be an original idea for them to implement it?"
Only if it is Microsoft - the bar is higher for them because nobody likes the company.
Re:What an original idea - NOT! (Score:5, Informative)
No one said it was an original idea.
Does it need to be an original idea for them to implement it? Are only original ideas worth adding to an OS?
Nobody, that is, except Microsoft in the actual survey. From TFA:
"We would like your feedback on a new concept," the Microsoft survey states, according to a leaked version sent to Engadget.
Full windows? (Score:2, Interesting)
The concept is called 'Instant On'. 'Instant On' takes your computer from being completely powered down or 'turned off' to being usable for a few specific activities in a very short amount of time."
Glad they clarified that powered down and turned off are the same thing. S3, anyone? Small power draw and "instant on" with "full features." I wonder if instant on will be (much) faster than resuming from hibernate. It would be hard to justify an instant on for limited features unless it's
New? (Score:2)
So maybe it's not the first time it's been done... Speaking as someone whose stuck on Windows in certain regards of his job, I would absolutely be interested in an instant-on subsystem which allows some utility in a standard Windows install without all the overhead that comes along with it.
My needs when running to meetings, on the road, and taking notes in seminars do not call for much more than a pen and paper, but my handwriting sucks. If its packaged into a standard windows install, its more likely that
Well, that explains it all again (Score:4, Insightful)
Easy Lazy Instant-On/Off... (Score:5, Interesting)
Boot the system. Now snapshot a memory image (a'la hybernate).
Now for "instant on", set up the page table and start running, and in the background, lazily swap in the rest of the memory. Anything you need immediately gets paged from disk, and the rest of the state gets swept up over the next 30 seconds.
Also, in the background, do "lazy write" as well: Any page that is stable for >X seconds but the disk is still active, write it out, so that going back to sleep (rehibernating) can be fast as well.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
So? How many "interesting" hardware reconfigurations happen?
If the hardware has changed, reboot the F@#er.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What I'm saying is that as soon as you try to actually do *anything*, like click on a button, the OS will have to load all of the virtual pages on disk containing needed libraries as the application traverses down its software stack. Your mouse click will generate an interrupt, which then needs to invoke the USB subsystem, which then invokes a callback which generates a windowing system message, which then gets routed to your processes, which then loads your process' window event callback function. Eventu
Re:Easy Lazy Instant-On/Off... (Score:5, Interesting)
Of course, if Windows hibernation operated anything like Linux hibernation, it would work a lot better.
For reference, Linux hibernation doesn't bother writing non-writable memory pages to the hibernation file. So the hibernation file is much smaller compared to Windows. (Which is why Linux can hibernate to a swap file.)
But this is because Linux can 'swap' from the original executable file into memory. So when it unhibernates, it 'unswaps' most of the programs from their original location, only loading the data segments from the swap file.
Of course, a good portion of the program is already in swap, so what actually happens is that all data segments not in the swap file are written to it, with as much executable segments overwritten as needed to fit those in. It is very very fast.
As opposed to Windows, which sits down and writes out all of physical memory to another file, and then has to load it all back in.(It might even write out 'clean' memory pages that are already in the swap file and unchanged since they were loaded back in memory, but I bet MS is smarter than that.)
Granted, Linux still has to, eventually, load all the programs into memory too, but it can load them in via 'swap', which is fairly invisible to the end user.
I'd enjoy it if they focused it on... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd enjoy an "instant-on" version of Windows if they focused it on productivity software and casual access to the internet. I'd also need to see it improve laptop battery life by a fair amount. Let's speculate: if this version of Windows allowed you to run Microsoft Office, Internet Explorer (with overhead plugins turned off, such as FlashPlayer) and gave you access to file servers (FTP, SSH, etc.) and sported a 50% battery life improvement, I'd use it! This is a perfect setup for what I need from my lap
linux subsystems? (Score:2)
I can attest to the fact that Dell uses XP Embedded for Dell Media Direct, and always has. I don't know about Asus.
Ancient technology (Score:2)
Pffft! I had 'instant on' applications with my old VIC-20 computer.
How about we just fix the existing sleep mode? (Score:3, Informative)
Normal Windows would be fine if it could sleep/wake up without locking up or losing half the devices and forcing a reboot.
It about time! (Score:3, Funny)
It's good to hear that Microsoft is looking into "instant on" technology. It would be a good complement to their "instant stop" technology.
priorities (Score:4, Funny)
You have installed a new 'Instant On'(tm) aware application. Do you want to reboot in order for the change to take effect?
[Reboot Now] [Remind me every 2 minutes] [Go away but reboot without another warning in rand(5,10) minutes]
Why can't we have both? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why should people have to choose between instantly on and fully functional? Can't Microsoft be ambitious enough to aim to make windows boot fast? This is like they're giving up on that as if it's just not possible, and instead offer some half-way compromise.
Re:Uptime... (Score:5, Funny)
System Up Time: 0 Days, 21 Hours, 32 Minutes, 58 Seconds
Windows Update :( Not "off" but restart.
Re:Uptime... (Score:5, Interesting)
System Up Time: 0 Days, 21 Hours, 32 Minutes, 58 Seconds
Windows Update :( Not "off" but restart.
Hm. I run both Windows and Mac. I can't remember the last time I did any update to a Mac that didn't require a restart. It's really pretty annoying.
Windows has gotten much better about not requiring restarts for updates. A huge change from its Windows 95/98 and NT days.
Re:Uptime... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Yeah, now in every update pack only 2 out of 10 updates require restart.
If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:5, Insightful)
But I can think of plenty of reasons to turn a notebook off. For example, a kernel update (we get those a lot in Fedora). Or a hardware upgrade. Or a low battery. Or extended storage. Or, if you are using a dual-boot system, to switch OSes.
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:5, Funny)
FreeBSD box :) up 465 days, 1:48, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
FreeBSD box :) up 465 days, 1:48, 1 user, load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
Bah, HPUX 11.0:
2:00pm up 613 days, 19:43, 17 users, load average: 0.19, 0.19, 0.19
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:5, Funny)
I can't whip it out AND be close enough to the keyboard to type.
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:5, Funny)
I'd tell you my OpenVMS uptime but it would be awkward and uncomfortable to see you cry.
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:4, Funny)
I'd tell you my OpenVMS uptime but it would be awkward and uncomfortable to see you cry.
Slashdot: Where uptime is considered the equivalent of your penis size. :-)
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:4, Interesting)
My Ubuntu machine has uptimes that are about 30-90 days, which is entirely based on new kernel releases. I've never had an unintended reboot (e.g. from a freeze or crash).
(Yes, there are methods [slashdot.org] of updating the kernel without rebooting... but most people with massive uptimes seem to achieve it not by using these tricks but rather by not touching the box.)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
You know that you can still get VMS systems from HP right?
The Vax was a great machine and VMS is a great OS. Too bad that didn't get open sourced.
Probably would have been an even better platform than Unix.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:If you wanted an uptime contest... (Score:5, Funny)
I see your FreeBSD and raise you, um . . . FreeBSD
su-2.05$ uptime 10:57AM up 737 days, 1:11, 11 users, load averages: 0.01, 0.07, 0.07
You guys are all weak. Windows Vista Ultimate:
11:03:42 up 1010 days, 8:11, 1 user, load average: 0.99, 0.99, 0.99
I'm almost completely booted up now!
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Wow! Has Vista been out that long already? Man, time flies....
Re:Uptime... (Score:5, Interesting)
Because I have a secondary monitor to the left of my Microsoft Windows Vista laptop. Why is that an issue?
- Because after undocking, Microsoft Outlook insists on opening on that (non-existent) monitor.
- Because after re-docking, Microsoft Windows insists on logically placing my external monitor to the RIGHT of my Laptop, and swapping the screens that the start bar and sidebar show up on.
- Because after undocking, carrying my laptop to the conference room and plugging it into the projector, all kinds of weird things happen.
That's why I shutdown daily.
Re:Uptime... (Score:5, Insightful)
The only practical way this will ever work is coercing hardware manufacturers to stick to more specific standards. In practice, ACPI hasn't solved it.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, I want that Splashtop Toaster that they have in their video demo. Apparently it's a no-wait one. You just turn it on and up pops the toast, no waiting whatsoever!!
Cool! At least that's probably what the toast is. It's a bad analogy worthy of slashdot, even my windoze box boots faster than it takes to toast a couple rounds of bread. Or even a bagel. But I digress.
Re:Wow! What a novel idea! (Score:5, Informative)
Right, because this was all about Microsoft claiming a new idea. Slashdot retards attack!!!
I know this is Slashdot, but you could at least try to RTFA:
We would like your feedback on a new concept...The concept is called 'Instant On'. 'Instant On' takes your computer from being completely powered down or 'turned off' to being usable for a few specific activities in a very short amount of time.
Quick! Slashdot Microsoft apologists to the rescue!
Re:Sounds like MinWin (Score:4, Informative)
Try end it all [google.com]. It doesnt affect boot time, you do a normal boot and then run end-it-all, but its great for games, you get more fps and, more important, less crashes.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Ehm, people will just slack off those 2 minutes in other ways. For example by chatting around the coffee-maker.
Boosting productivity by shaving *minutes* off of a workflow (especially a once-a-day one) is a myth.
Premature optimization in business processes is just as harmful as it is in computing.
Try to optimize tasks that amount to hours of overhead each day first - then look after the 2 minute thingies.
The most common sources of overhead in modern organizations are, still, unclear communication-paths and
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Now when someone figures out the "instant green" gadget to make red lights turn green so you are never stuck at an intersection I will pay any amount!
It's already been done, and use of one of those gadgets by civilians was made a federal crime over three years ago. [wired.com] Sorry.
~Philly