How To Make Money With Free Software 187
fons writes "Dutch Python hacker/artist Stani took part in a contest organised by the Dutch Ministry Of Finance to design a 5 euro commemorative coin. And he won, using only free software: 'The whole design was done for 100% with free software. The biggest part consists of custom software in Python, of course within the SPE editor. For the visual power I used PIL and pyCairo. From time to time also Gimp, Inkscape and Phatch helped quite a bit. All the developing and processing was done on GNU/Linux machines which were running Ubuntu/Debian. I would have loved to release the coin under the GPL, which could maybe solve the financial crisis. However for obvious reasons I was not allowed to do that.'"
Wow (Score:2)
that's a ice looking coin, well done.
Making money (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually, people printing too much money was how this crisis started in the first place.
(and they are going to solve it by
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Actually, people printing too much money was how this crisis started in the first place. ... issuing more credit).
(and they are going to solve it by
Is that what they call the XML solution?
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Is that what they call the XML solution?
With XML, you can just mod the syntax -1 Redundant. It doesn't work like that with financial crises...
Re:Making money (Score:4, Insightful)
Wasn't really caused by printing too much money (especially since a lot of the money was never printed, but just given out on paper). The issue is more that the money loaned out was secured in a way that didn't correctly model the risk of giving out that money. When it was found that the assumptions made were faulty and began to unwind, a whole ton of shit hit the fan. I'm not going to suggest (in this post) who caused the problem, loaners or takers, and if the problem is being best resolved, but the problem wasn't caused by loaning out too much.
Re:Making money (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, one should be careful of believing metaphors too much. It is possible to make your metaphor work, but only through considerable twists of logic. The question you have to ask whenever you do that: is it worth the effort? Does the metaphor tell you anything worth knowing? The GP is precisely right: people don't know how much risk they've undertaken, so they don't know how many of their assets are, in accounting terms, "cash equivalents". So what has happened is that the flow of money through the economy has been gummed up. This is exactly the opposite immediate effect from what you'd get "printing more money" (actually extending more credit). People would not be able to get rid of their dollars fast enough, lest they be inflated away.
Here's a metaphor that is much better than the printing one, a metaphor that derives from accounting but draws upon physics: anti-money. The way you get a certain number of dollars into circulation is to create an equal number of anti-dollars. Eventually, the dollars return to annihilate and be annihilated by anti-dollars.
The process of creating money and anti-money is called "credit".
Every dollar borrowed by a big bank from the Fed is balanced by an anti-dollar on the Fed's books. When the Fed reduces interest rates, then banks borrow more cheap dollars from it, putting more dollars into circulation, balanced by anti-dollars on the Fed's ledgers. However: while the Fed influences the money supply, it's not the only or main creator of money. Anybody can create money, perfectly legally by extending credit. A dollar exists if an only if everyone believes it is there..
If I were Warren Buffet, I could write on a piece of paper, "Pay to the bearer one million dollars. Signed, Warren Buffet" then hand you that piece of paper, writing "one million anti-dollars" on my ledgers. You could go out and spend that "million dollars" as if it were a bundle of 50,000 $20 bills. As long as that paper was absolutely convincing, as long as everybody agreed that note was worth a million dollars, it would be a million dollars.
You could deposit it in a bank, which put it in its vault. Since the note can't be conveniently divvied up, what they do in effect is create a million dollars of money and a million dollars of anti-money, securing the promise represented by that creation to their ability to demand a million dollars from me. That's very important. The promises represented by money form a kind of chain of obligations, ultimately anchored to the Treasury's endless ability to create dollars. When financial transactions occur, the chain is reconfigured. When I issue the note I forge a ring in the chain and link that to my upstream debtors. When your bank redeems the note, I take my ring out of the chain and splice them directly to my upstream debtors.
That's where printing comes in. Nobody wants a lot of physical dollars; they don't want tens of thousands of dollars in their wallets, or billions of dollars in bills in their vaults. But they want to know that if they yank on their end of the chain, the Treasury will respond by printing a dollar. That's what the full faith and credit of the United States amounts to: a promise to print as many dollars as the Fed says exists. In practice the amount of physical dollars is an infinitesimal fraction of the total dollars in circulation; the capacity to supply virtual demand is transmutes credit into money. If any upstream link in the chain is questionable, all the downstream credit ceases to be money and becomes investment.
The source of the current problem is that the financial system has attempted the equivalent of pulling itself up by the bootstraps. Individual institutions discovered that they could insure securities with things like credit default swaps. That means instead of carefully
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In the case of most banks, your sentence should be modified to "they had some money and gave ten, twenty, or more times that amount of money to people"
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You seem to be under the impression that all the banks just failed had the ability to print money. If they had, do you think they would have failed?
Printing too much money doesn't cause this kind of crisis, which is actually about a shortage of money. What printing too much money does is cause inflation. That's how the German hyperinflation [usagold.com] happened. During that period, the German economy roared right along, and everybody was employed, even though they were paid with worthless paper.
This is an excellent example (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is an excellent example (Score:5, Insightful)
Nevertheless, it's good publicity for FOSS. If you show that you can be productive with it, more adoption.
In fact, if more people that use FOSS say it, it will remove the stigma that such software is substandard to the business alternatives.
Re:This is an excellent example (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is an excellent example (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree with you but for different reasons. The judges would have been oblivious to the fact the free software was used to design the coin. They gave the award based in the design in front of them, uninfluenced by its means of production. The artist won 100% based on his design. Hence the first part of my comment.
Tool selection is part of the behind the scenes design process. The free software tools contributed to the artist's ability to realise his design. He might have been able to do it without free software, but would have had to divert effort from being creative into forcing the tools to do his will. Being able to afford the tools for the job is part of it, but I think a larger issue is that free software provided the customisability to get the job done.
This is why I think it's an excellent example: he won the prize entirely though his own resourcefulness, but free software allowed his resourcefulness to go places it otherwise could not have.
Observation: Funny that I just came out with words to the effect of "where do you want to go today?", the old MS slogan. The important thing is not the question, but the answer. Some software will let you go lots of places. The excellent case in point, the example of the coin, has demonstrated that free software's answer is "wherever you want to go".
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Pity the article makes it sound like the only way you can make a buck with free software is to enter an obscure competition to design a commemorative coin and then win. Then again that might not be too far off ;-)
This is a compiled example (Score:2)
"Free software released the artist from the constraints of having to fit in with someone else's idea of what software or technology he should be allowed to use, leaving him free to be creative and follow his own unique path."
Uh huh, and exactly what constraint was he under that a piece of paper and a number 6H pencil wouldn't solve? I know we all like to cheer on free software but in this example his "unique path" was constrained only by himself.
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This guy won due to superior design, not due to the fact that he used free software.
I disagree. I'm not saying the judges said "Ooh, this guy used Python, let's give him the prize." But they must have reacted to the unusual nature and the playfulness of his design, and that's very much a reflection of the way he went about designing it.
And the way Stani went about designing it is very unusual for a graphic designer. But not for a member of the Open Source community. The members of that community are motivated by their love of a clever hack, more so even than the desire to create useful sof
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Free software released the artist from the constraints of having to fit in with someone else's idea of what software or technology he should be allowed to use, leaving him free to be creative and follow his own unique path.
Because he could fix gimp bugs in a snap and pay me to design and implement for him his own half-gimp-half-emacs-half-manbearpig tool.
This is a story about how free software simply does the job and gets out of the way, not about how the starving artist is also a programmer or can afford one.
The story about why the free software simply does the job and gets out of the way, that's probably an interesting one.
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I just love making abundantly clear through my actions that I didn't even bother to read the summary.
I blame the editors ;)
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OMG, but don't you understand, that means someone somewhere has done something concrete that means something in the real world using FOSS software! That means that these billions of man-hours invested in developing FOSS weren't spent in vain!
Hallelujah and Freesoftwaruh Akbar!
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True, but I think the point is that it didn't restrict the designer in question.
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Release it open source if you can't maintain it yourself and will need help you can't afford, or that the majority of your income will come from selling support.
Otherwise, keep that shit to yourself. OSS is a pretty damn weak contract for making sure people give back to you.
Bugger the "owing FOSS". You don't owe shit. Unless you are using a project that has licensors regret. (Had that before - "Why don't your release source for your product?"... "Its internal"... "But its not in the *spirit* of the GPL")
I don't get it.... (Score:2, Insightful)
What's the big deal?
I've seen people recreate entire scenes from "Lost" in MS Paint, but it doesn't mean it's the easier or faster way to do it.
Just means it can be done. I'm not devaluing the work done here, or the benefit of open source software but seriously... I don't see the big deal in this article.
Re:I don't get it.... (Score:5, Informative)
Did you RTFA (or more specifically LATFC)? This coin has algorithmic outputs both on the front (the Queen made out of architect names) and on the back (an outline of Holland made out of books). I can't see how anybody could create it using Photoshop or Illustrator. The coin designer probably spent more time coding than sketching (like the book Snow Crash).
Also, it's beautiful. I want one, no, a few million of them.
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I can't see how anybody could create it using Photoshop or Illustrator. The coin designer probably spent more time coding than sketching (like the book Snow Crash).
A lesson to learn here is that if you can't see how, doesn't mean someone else doesn't as well :)
Photoshop/Illustrator are fully scriptable environments. By JS/VBScript on Windows, and JS/AppleScript on OSX. Every single option, action, brush stroke, whatever you can think of, is automatable, and Adobe software comes with a little IDE-like tool for writing and testing your Photoshop/Illustrator/Flash IDE/etc. scripts in.
But the truth is, it's even simpler to achieve the guts of this effect in Photoshop, with no script at all.
A simple text-on-a-path layer, a little blending mode play, and a levels adjustment layer.
This is not to put down his effort, if he wants to design with Python, by all means, he should do so.
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Seriously, he could have saved tons of time just by using a piece of paper, a pencil, and maybe a protractor/soda can to make the circle.
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The big deal is the creative way in which he used the software. RTFA.
That's Impressive (Score:5, Interesting)
My question is - did he just use open-source on principle, or did it confer an advantage on doing this project over the commercial alternatives? Or was it harder to do it with the open source software? Clearly it involved a lot of custom scripting. Did he go as far as to look at the source code to accomplish this, or dig into the software in other ways that couldn't be done with closed source? Anybody know?
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This guy is a master of symbolic design. He's the modern heir of the artistic geniuses who did all the dense symbolic religious iconography in early christian churches and for secret societies. It's perfectly fitting, since architecture, particularly classical architecture, is loaded with design secrets and hidden meanings, and the coin is about architecture. This coin being loaded with dense symbolism and being about architecture, I hope there's something masonic hidden on it somewhere. I assume the masons were active in The Netherlands?
My question is - did he just use open-source on principle, or did it confer an advantage on doing this project over the commercial alternatives? Or was it harder to do it with the open source software? Clearly it involved a lot of custom scripting. Did he go as far as to look at the source code to accomplish this, or dig into the software in other ways that couldn't be done with closed source? Anybody know?
I was thinking the same thing about his mastery of visual symbolism. However, in what sense are ancient greek and roman buildings dense with symbolism? Are you talking about the sculpture on them?
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I was thinking the same thing about his mastery of visual symbolism. However, in what sense are ancient greek and roman buildings dense with symbolism? Are you talking about the sculpture on them?
I took a class on Sacred Architecture, and basically, the Greek buildings are loaded to the hilt with meanings. Well, it was all mathematical, though. You can thank the Greek philosophers for first originating the idea of the Matrix. The reality we see with the senses is a shadow of the real world, which is mathematics.
For one, they liked to use the golden ratio wherever they could. Here's a page [milanovic.org] that has an image of the golden ratio in a Greek temple. Second, look closely at the columns. See who they t
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This coin being loaded with dense symbolism and being about architecture, I hope there's something masonic hidden on it somewhere. I assume the masons were active in The Netherlands?
Are they? Are they ever!
Why, just look at the way the guy is holding his hand in the photo at the bottom of this page [minfin.nl]! Can you believe it!? It's right out in front of everyone, there on this web page! I would think they would be more subtle about it.
Photo in question [minfin.nl]
but it's butt-ugly (Score:2)
i mean, don't get me wrong, i'm writing this on an Ubuntu box loaded with free software, some of which i even use. but free software in general can be unrefined and unapproachable. and that's exactly how i see this coin. even the denomination is not prominent. it seems to be designed to appeal to nerds (art or otherwise), and not the actual people that need to use it.
Re:That's Impressive (Score:4, Informative)
His editor is really good, but some performance issue on my 64bit. I prefer it over Erik4 otherwise.
I think you can savely assume that if he is not happy with something, he just changes the source code and recompiles.
As a Computer Graphics Instructor... (Score:5, Insightful)
So I started doing an extra credit assignment where I tell them they are not allowed to use Adobe products, and they have to design a postcard. They use any package they want; most use GIMP or Inkscape because they're free. Without fail, they come back and say, "hey, I can't do anything with this. It's not Adobe. It sucks." So I point out to them that their Adobe software skills make them think they're pretty good at design. But what happened to their awesome design skills when they started using another software package? Does the software really suck, or do they just hate it because of its non-Adobeness? I show them nicely-done work by other GIMP or Inkscape users. Blank looks. Lesson ensues.
Relying on a specific software package is fine. *Depending* on it is risky. And *not being able* to design using anything else because of some marketing-infused mental block just means you're spoiled and/or ignorant. Bravo for the true creativity displayed in the article.
Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... (Score:5, Insightful)
That test as akin to asking someone to type with a non-QWERTY style keyboard.
Your test did not challenge their design and creative abilities, it tested their ability to use different tools.
Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... (Score:5, Insightful)
If a student views himself as a craftsman who uses one tool, he needs to know that he is selling himself short, that is all. Half of the student's grade in these classes is based in the application of design principles independent of any specific specific software package. So for an extra credit assignment, that's more than appropriate.
Also, If I were teaching a keyboarding class, I'd have no problem exposing my students to Dvorak or Das Keyboard in similar optional, extra credit assignments.
Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... (Score:4, Insightful)
I believe there is value in learning to use multiple different tools, no matter what your trade.
The reason I said something was because you were talking about their design skills. But the extra credit assignment did not tackle the issue of design skills as much as it addressed their ability to use a different tool.
At the end of the day, I think it was a wonderful extra credit assignment to give them. Something to challenge how they see the tools they use and possibly expand their horizons.
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the ~ symbol, which I still haven't found on a UK keyboard
Home row, to the left of Enter.
I don't like being stuck with the US layout, but typically I'm only typing an email or something, so all that matters is that @ and " are switched. And I can't type £.
Much worse is the French layout, where QW is instead AZ, I can never find M, you have to press shift to get numbers. It's screwed up. You even need shift for . but not for , :-)
At least their Enter key is the right shape though
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:French_pc_keyboard.svg [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/ [wikipedia.org]
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Many of my new students think that once they *understand* how to use Photoshop better than most, they are now a graphic designer, creative person, illustrator, web designer, etc. (...) So I point out to them that their Adobe software skills make them think they're pretty good at design. But what happened to their awesome design skills when they started using another software package?
Eh, one tool or two they can still be damn crappy designers. And a good designer could use a pencil and crayons and be completely computer illiterate. I doubt it shows anything except that without understanding how a tool works, you can't use it well.
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Actually, I've identified the one-tool-only scenario as a stumblingblock for *my* students. So an extra tool thrown in there does seem to help. Other instructors may see things differently.
I don't see where I disagreed with that. But that's at a very high level, and perhaps some of these students will get tired of supporting Adobe, switch to GIMP, or find the
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Exactly, because everyone knows that only when you use GIMP will you become a "graphic designer, creative person, illustrator, web designer, etc".
Why don't you teach GIMP instead of Photoshop? Oh, that's right - nobody will pay you to teach it.
Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... (Score:4, Informative)
"You seem to be setting up a straw man. Can I help you with that?" -Clippy (because no, I never said what you suggest I did)
Most of my students have no context in which to understand the difference between the two. But since you asked, I will be teaching GIMP soon, as the art faculty in my college have demonstrated an interest in helping students grasp the Open Source aesthetic. Also, you may have noticed that I *do* teach GIMP currently, as an optional item.
I'm not sure where you heard that. The school has already shown interest in paying me more to develop a curriculum for more advanced students which would heavily involve Open Source software. We also like the idea of establishing a one-of-a-kind creative lab by spending more money on capable hardware installations than on software. You may have seen this happen at schools like MIT. But still, I come to /. to hear the old arguments against Open Source stuff, so...well played, my literal-nicked friend.
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Your lesson seemed a little muddled. Were you trying to show that tools don't make you creative or were you trying to promote open source tools? I can understand the blank stares.
As far as the advanced class you may be paid to teach someday, what is the point of it? Is the goal to teach students how to design for themselves or to teach them how to design using the tools they're likely to encounter working for somebody else. Promoting open source may possibly be good in the long run, but is it appropriate to
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This is the same rhetoric that always gets brought up in these /. discussions. As if an instructor would just cart in Open Source software one day and tell students they are forbidden to use some in-demand commercial package. Yeah, that sounds like a love of freedom to me.~
Does this type of presuppositional thinking usually help you communicate? It's failing here because you seem to be asking a question I've already a
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Re:As a Computer Graphics Instructor... (Score:5, Interesting)
Not really, but your comment may indicate that you're a bad reader. I was referring to my "new" students, the ones that come in on the first day with lots of presuppositions.
I don't see where I argue against that in my post. Also, "pales" is one of those words that doesn't exactly help anyone understand your point. More than needing to hear specific reasons, I'd want to know why you would feel the need to list them, considering the fact that you own both.
Are you saying that you can do that? Because for many who can't, this is actually a powerful lesson to learn. Many aspiring designers learn this lesson too late; I know a few who use adobe software not because "it works and I can express myself with it" but because "it makes me look professional in conversation." In fact, I am considering dropping a subcontractor for this reason. He can use the software, but he makes excuses for his lack of design training.
humor alert: It's a joke, and it's funny! (Score:5, Funny)
For the humor-impaired, it's a pun:
make (earn) money vs. make (design) money
referring to the often asked question, how do you make money with free software.
get it?
Even I could tell you that (Score:2, Funny)
All you need to do is this! Its simple and GUARANTEED to make YOU money! $$$!
Pay me $500 for the right to develop my wonderful ideas, and then just recruit TWO MORE PEOPLE to develop it for you, and promise that they get money! GUARANTEED RESULTS!!!! YOU can make FREE MONEY!! FREEEEEEE!!!!!!
Whatever. (Score:5, Informative)
The more talent you have, the less important the tools are.
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commemorative edition (Score:2)
I'd to love buy a commemorative edition, but the Royal Dutch Mint appears not to ship outside the EU.
I really like the coin (Score:2, Interesting)
and the thoughts that went into it.
I find the design pretty daring and radical. But still, without knowing anything about art or design, I can tell that a lot of thought went into it.
That it's done with free software is ++, and just goes to show how effective it can be, when put into capable hands.
congratulations.
And with the award money... (Score:5, Funny)
Asked what he was going to do with the award money, the artist said "I'll finally be able to afford Photoshop!" ;)
And?? (Score:3, Insightful)
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2) The oft stated "Linux is no good for graphic designers because it doesn't have photoshop" now has a response. Not that I see any photoshop users switching because of this, but serious professional graphics work has now been done on linux.
But is it art (Score:2)
.
To my eyes, at least, the coin looks like a technical exercise in mechanical drawing and perspective.
Ingenious, perhaps, but not necessarily emotionally satisfying:
benedick [matinmarkka.com]
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I bet Beatrix is looking in the mirror and saying "is my nose really that big?"
Back side of the coin (Score:2)
In other news ... (Score:2)
NASA design Apollo space project on the back of OSS paper napkins using OSS pencils.
Hooray, isn't OSS just the pants !
This is not news, this is an OSS wankfest.
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For obvious reasons (Score:2)
I would have loved to release the coin under the GPL, which could maybe solve the financial crisis. However for obvious reasons I was not allowed to do that.
What are the obvious reasons ? The coin will circulate, will be displayed in many website, its creation is sponsored by the state and is normally in the public domain. What prevents you from GPLing the files used for its creation ?
Stani's talk at python user group meeting (Score:3, Informative)
Stani explained the way he made the coin at a Dutch python user group meeting in Amsterdam. Everyone attending was really enthousiastic about it. http://reinout.vanrees.org/weblog/archive/2008/09/12/python-calculated-coin [vanrees.org]
Good to see that he's written an article himself with the full explanation and graphs! Nicely done.
Re:More like... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Yeah, I followed some of some of the links and it appears that he won the contest, not that he made any money in doing so.
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Re:More like... (Score:5, Funny)
You could have the same title for an article about an author that wrote a book using OpenOffice.
Slashdot actually rejected my submission when I did just that. It's a pity, too; Return of Macbeth is an instant classic.
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I believe you mean, "Return of the Scottish Character".
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Yet you don't say the name of that Scottish play yourself...
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Re:More like... (Score:5, Insightful)
But he was *making money*, get it? Coin - money...
Anyway, the interesting thing here is not that he designed something with free software, people do that all the time, but that his design won. Of course I didn't read the article, but A assume his was not the only entry, and that at least some other entries were prepared with proprietary software.
So it wouldn't be "an author wrote a book using OpenOffice" but rather "a book written using OpenOffice won some prize". Of course books created by free software regularly win top places at typography contests, so it would still not be that unusual.
There is, however, certain feeling among both professionals and public that in the area of graphics design, proprietary software rules, and using free software gives you a serious handicap. That is what makes this interesting.
he is also a notable Free software author (Score:2)
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I've always wanted to work in a mint. And then go on strike. To make less money.
(Not the original quote, and I can't remember who said it originally. But relevant for this context.)
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That coin, especially the back, has to be one of the ugliest things I've ever seen.
The distended anus of the child of tubgirl and Rick Astley?
For bunnies sakes. (Score:3, Insightful)
He won a design contest, the logical conclusion? He can't design.
Only in Slashdot ...
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The dutch actually have a long history of ugly modernist coinage.
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I'd rather have the old "Monopoly Money" Guilders than any-colour-you-like-as-long-as-its-green US Dollars. Since the move to Euros, it's not been the same.
Re:How to Make Money with Free Software (Score:4, Funny)
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Wow, that died quickly.
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I take it you don't know your ASCII table by heart? 00101111 00101110 is far from dead.
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C#!?!?!
If you think that's a step up, you really have a lot to learn.
Why don't you learn a real language. C, C++, Assembly, Java, Perl, forth, pascal, fortan or COBOL even, before criticizing Python.
But coming back with C# is just beyond lame.
Re:Fuck Python (Score:5, Funny)
The GP makes a post, saying "Fuck Python C# for life!", and you make a post essentially saying "Fuck C#, real languages for life!".
It's a real battle of wits, isn't it?
How dare someone prefer one programming language to another!
Re:Fuck Python (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Fuck Python (Score:5, Funny)
I hear you.
Fuck emacs, vi for life!
Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# (Score:3, Insightful)
I am a VI user not an Emacs user.
Why? Because emacs often requires installation, where VI is by default on almost every Linux and Unix system, it's also an extended version of "ed" that is a very useful tool.
Anyhow it's not small mindedness, because C# is closed and proprietary it very limited in it use.
For example you will not see developers porting the language to new systems. Only Microsoft can do that!
Hence it's not a real language in that respect.
How about project usage? Can you write an OS with it. Or
Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# (Score:4, Funny)
You just got whoooosh'd.
Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# (Score:5, Insightful)
So, basically, shovels are better than back hoes because with a shovel you can make both small and big holes, but with back-hoes, you can only make big holes. However, what you aren't taking into account is that while backhoes can't make small holes, they are way more efficient at making big ones.
And just for the record, a "small hole" is a low-level project, such as an operating system, and a "big hole" is a higher-level system, like a software program.
I'm not saying that C# is better than C, just that they have different purposes and are therefore better at different things.
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So, I saw your site, and see where you have a quote from Ken Thompson. Only, you attribute to him the authorship of C, when everyone knows C was created by Dennis Ritchie and Ken Thompson invented UNIX.
correct facts for life!
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First, you say that C# is a closed and proprietary language. You also say there is no spec for the C# language. While Microsoft's C# compiler itself may be closed source and proprietary software, it is an open standard per ECMA. You also state that developers won't be porting the language to new systems, yet I can count at least two compilers (both open source) available for non Microsoft systems.
You then ask if it can be used to create an operat
Re:Fuck Python, no, Fuck C# (Score:5, Funny)
it's also an extended version of "ed" that is a very useful tool.
Yesterday my Fedora 9 updater told me that I had a security update.
For ed.
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So the fact that a language is "hard" to figure out, means it's better?
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Yeah, Malbolge is the best language ever!
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Malbolge is a public domain esoteric programming language invented by Ben Olmstead in 1998, named after the eighth circle of hell in Dante's Inferno, the Malebolge.
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> Java and C# are nearly interchangeable
yes I know.
So then why bother with something closed source?
> Actionscript
This is it's own beast, I'd have the same gripes with flash, except it's getting much more open, and they have done an excellent job for what it is, but it's very limited in it's use again and so it's not a "real language" by my definition.
I am sure there is some compsci student out there that can come up with a better term for it, but it's a Niche Language and as such has limited use.
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So then why bother with something closed source?
a) Because it's better. Even though VS sucks donkey balls compared to Eclipse, and I'd rather program with 'cat' commands than ever use Monodevelop again, C# is the superior language, IMNSHO. And b) because it's not closed-source. The .NET Framework seems to be a patent minefield, but if you don't live in a country with retarded patent laws, Mono is an excellent way to develop applications in C#, and comes with full source-code.
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Why bother even playing with other people screwy stuff.
I program C, C++. It works everywhere! Does everything almost. the few places it's can't go is downloadable browser code. So I do Java - javascript for that. Active X has been a nightmare.
I have nothing against python, it seems to server it's users well, and it finding it's way in to many embedded applications, as well as the enterprise.
So far I have learned and used over 100+ languages, many are now dead or might as well be.
Things that I loved dearly l
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Why bother even playing with other people screwy stuff.
Because it's not. If you can't see that, your loss.
I program C, C++. It works everywhere! Does everything almost. the few places it's can't go is downloadable browser code.
Yeah, but the fact that it *can* do almost everywhere doesn't mean it should. Writing GUI apps in C in particular is a PITA, and C++ is still the ugliest, kludgiest language I've ever used, *far* worse than Perl. So, for GUI stuff, I use C# or Python and so far so good.
After some time you start to realize the different between real things with substance and shiny new objects that are being shoved down your throat.
C# being in the latter category.
Well, to you, to me it's one of the most enjoyable languages I've ever used, one that manages to extend it's "parent" language (Java, in this case) in ways that are actually useful to me and