Rumors Flying On $20 Billion Microsoft Offer For Yahoo 112
gadgetopia is one of many who wrote to tell us about the many rumors flying around that Microsoft may be aiming another deal at Yahoo, this time for $20 billion. The story was apparently originally broken by the UK-based site Times Online, and contained lots of details about the supposed deal. Since then, Ross Levinsohn, reported to be part of the new management team, has denied there is any truth to these rumors, leading to questions about where all of this supposed information came from. Yahoo has declined to comment officially.
Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:5, Insightful)
In this climate I don't see Microsoft buying -anything- for a $20B outlay unless it were the next Google. And Yahoo isn't.
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree, Yahoo's revenue streams have been dropping and their annual profit's have not been good. MS would have to have a compelling reason to buy Yahoo as the acquisition would probably not give them a competitive advantage over Google.
With all this talk of Windows in the cloud, and seeing what Microsoft have just done by adding Netflix to the Xbox 360, it appears like they are looking seriously to selling appliances/subscription services. If they could convert even a fraction of their OEM market into hosted services, it could be as lucrative as their Office and Server licensing streams.
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:4, Insightful)
Microsoft doesnt want Yahoo to make money, they want Yahoo for the hits and content.
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Microsoft doesn't want Yahoo. It wants Yahoo out of the way.
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Microsoft doesn't want Google to not have Yahoo. Microsoft wants Google's cute sister.
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:5, Informative)
Correct, Yahoo owns a great deal of Google stock due to the patent dispute around online marketing.
Why Google is not taking care of this is kind of beyond me.
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Microsoft wants Yahoo patent portfolio.
and Zimbra.
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Uh, no. They don't give two squats about either.
What they do want is the advertiser base for sponsored search.
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I'm not sure why they would spend $20 billion to serve ads on Yahoo's search. What would make more sense to me to to buy everything *except* Yahoo's search (mail, flickr, etc). Yahoo has some sweet web apps, and I think that would better compete with Google. MS already has search.
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Yahoo has a revenue stream? you mean people still use them despite their over cluttered pages and inferior services.
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I do believe they have a revenue stream and an "Exchange Killer [zimbra.com]" (at least a competitor) and they are definitely one of the top five search engines. I think search engine ranks right now must be... 1) Google, 2) Google, 3) Google, 4) Yahoo, and 5) Google. So a second MS acquisition attempt is very plausible.
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A better question would be, why is gmail trying to suppress that information? Check your spam folder, and click on 'Display images below' (otherwise, you won't see it).
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft has money to spend and AAA corporate credit. Exxon-Mobil grade credit. Why shouldn't it be out shopping for bargains?
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No kidding. This is the perfect time for a shopping spree. Guys like Yahoo's shareholders will be screaming for this sort of a buyout to save them from losing their shirts.
Microsoft has more cash than Jesus right now. They have nothing to worry about.
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft has more cash than Jesus right now. They have nothing to worry about.
Not likely. According to this website [slashdot.org], in the year 2000 alone, American evangelical Christians raked in $2.66T (yes, that's trillion, no, that's not a typo.) If, according the site, 9% of these 'born-again' Christians tithed -- contributed 10% of their income -- then that should be about $23.94B in 2000 alone. If we count all 9 years between 2000 and 2008, and people are giving to Jesus at the same rates, I figure since 2000, Jesus must've raked in at least $200 billion or so, probably more. Let's be conservative and say the number is closer $300 billion.
That makes Microsoft's $30 billion or so in current cash (according to Google Finance) seem a bit puny in comparison, huh?
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Woooooooosh.
(The single entity, is, of course, Jesus. That's why it's funny. Laugh.)
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It's not like God needs it?
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Miracles are free, of course. Hell, Jesus' frickin' father supposedly created the flippin' Earth and everything on it in 7 days with $0!!! (Money hadn't been invented yet...) Certainly something as relatively mundane as turning water into wine must be even cheaper than free.
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This purchase rumor was proven false on the 30th of November The same day it was announced. http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4AT1AO20081130 [reuters.com]
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They'd definitely buy, this is a great buyers market after all. The trouble is that this story was pretty thoroughly debunked yesterday [techcrunch.com].
Yahoo is closer to Google than you think (Score:3, Insightful)
Yahoo is one of the few companies that's positioned anywhere near a place where they could grab a share of what Google's doing.
They have some of the web's most trafficked destinations -- I think they're still #1 in traffic even with the rise of the social networking sites. Part of it's mindshare and brand recognition, part of it is the sheer variety the apps in their portal portfolio (flickr, delicious, groups...).
Microsoft right now is in a position where they are losing control of the web as a platform. E
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Yahoo's market capitalization is only $14,904,080,000.00 as of today, so why would MS offer to buy Yahoo for 33% more than the market value of the company?
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I am saying it's stupid.
Re:Sounds like pump-n-dump (Score:5, Informative)
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If he knows what he's doing ... (Score:2)
He runs OS X.
But we all know the real answer. :) Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm this dogfood tastes greaaaat.
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Whoever mods parent Funny gets their privileges revoked.
Hmmm. (Score:5, Funny)
44 billion to 20 billion.
Are they trying to actually buy the company or do they just happen to have cameras in place at the Yahoo Shareholders Meetings. Maybe Ballmer just wants to have some footage of some other hypertensive sweaty jumping exec to replace his favorite internet memes.
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Realistically, if Microsoft don't buy yahoo, they're probably going to go under anyway. About the only thing they've got left is selling API's so people can data mine anything you've got in Yahoo.
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Well given that even 20 billion is more than the shares are currently worth, I'd say the drop is pretty understandable.
Realistically, if Microsoft don't buy yahoo, they're probably going to go under anyway. About the only thing they've got left is selling API's so people can data mine anything you've got in Yahoo.
If that's true then Google really is an unstoppable behemoth now. Honestly, there isn't enough room on the internet for Yahoo to make a living too? I don't get it. But, I suppose that's why I'm a geek and not a suit.
Surely there's a way for a Yahoo to shed 50% of its mass and use its name recognition to drive some kind of revenue stream. Even if it is just selling tee-shirts or something dumb like that. It worked for /. and thinkGeek (sort of I guess).
Going under? I don't know. I certainly agree that they a
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There's plenty of internet left for everyone and a whole lot of others.
What there isn't is a lot of space left for old style search engines and content aggregators like Yahoo.
For better or worse, google has that sector pretty well locked up tight.
That doesn't mean that yahoo can't pull a rabbit out of their hat, that's always possible. If the economy hadn't tanked I'd even say it was likely, but they, like a whole host of IT(and other) companies which have fairly good long term prospects, but serious short
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Which, despite your sarcasm, they did. Google's got enough eyeballs as it is, we don't need them scooping up near all of them.
Hardly (Score:2)
That couldn't possibly be true. Surely, Yahoo is holding out for $10B, given their track record.
Perhaps they are waiting for a government bailout?
Feds won't allow it (Score:3, Insightful)
They better get their sale concluded before next year.
Hostile takeover (Score:5, Interesting)
I recall reading an article a while back that Microsoft wasn't able to pursue unless Jerry Yang was ousted.
Well, from now to then:
* Ichann was elected to the board
* Yang received severe criticism from the FUD machine
* The project management of Yahoo services just went plain crazy (like deleting all of your user information in an 'upgrade')
* <<insert more stupid crap here>>
* Yang "stepped down"
* And now report are that the 44.6 billion dollar deal is a mere 20 billion.
Say what you will, but this isn't mere chance. Yahoo was one of the companies that helped to make the internet what it is today, and I am very suspicious about most nearly everything on the list above.
Think what you will, but the only sane one in this deal was Jerry Yang from the start. Microsoft is ruthless - and this shows just how ruthless they are.
Re:Hostile takeover (Score:5, Insightful)
Think what you will, but the only sane one in this deal was Jerry Yang from the start. Microsoft is ruthless - and this shows just how ruthless they are.
How could you blame Microsoft on this? They offered the 44.6B and were turned down by Jerry Yang. Let me repeat that last part....Jerry Yang, the sane one, turned down the deal. His decisions resulted in a lesser valued company and now according to this article Microsoft is making another offer. How this leads to M$=EVIL I don't know.
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Re:Hostile takeover (Score:5, Funny)
At his sister's wedding, Michael Corleone tells his then girlfriend Kay Adams the story of how Don Corleone helped his godson Johnny Fontane. Michael explains that his father went to convince Les Halley, the bandleader, to release Johnny from a personal service contract that was holding back Johnny's singing career. Halley refused both the initial offer of $20,000 and the following offer of $10,000, completely missing the significance of that lower offer.
You know what happened then.
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Jerry Yang wakes up to find Susan Decker's severed head in his bed?
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a) Microsoft raised stock prices based on these small comments, but I don't see how they can lower them, other than restoring them to where they were before they made these comments by denying any further interest. I don't know what makes you think MS is even behind this rumour. If you wanted to buy Yahoo, you would suppress rumours that you were about to buy them to keep the share price low. If you didn't want to buy Yahoo, you wouldn't do shit to make Yahoo's price go up anyway.
b) Yahoo isn't a baby,
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How could you blame Microsoft on this?
The question is what would the stock have done if Microsoft hadn't gotten involved.
Re:Hostile takeover (Score:5, Insightful)
Jerry Yang is the reason Yahoo is in the toilet
Uh, probably not. Over past 12 months Yahoo! is down 60%. But guess what? AMD is down 80%, the Dow is down 40%, Sun is down 85%, MSFT themselves are down 45%, even Apple is down 50%.
Shall we blame Jerry for 12 months of decline across the board?? If you correct for the market downturn, even just the Dow index, then Yahoo! has barely dipped.
(Actually the offer was made around 1 Feb, but the dips since then are about the same.)
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Think what you will, but the only sane one in this deal was Jerry Yang from the start. Microsoft is ruthless - and this shows just how ruthless they are.
Man I agree MS is ruthless and I respect Jerry Yang but I just can't blame Microsoft here. They gave Jerry a 44 BILLION offer, and a few weeks later, the company loses almost 25 billion in value directly because of his refusal to sell.
You mention some mistakes that Yahoo made but how is all that not his fault?
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They gave Jerry a 44 BILLION offer, and a few weeks later, the company loses almost 25 billion in value...
This is interesting. What caused that drop in value?
How does the Yahoo! before the offer differ from the Yahoo! after the offer? Did someone important leave? Did Yahoo! stop offering some critical service? If not, then what? A loss of ~50% of a company's value is kinda huge, no? Where did all that money go? Did it get lost in a sock drawer?
bogus. (Score:2)
ballmer is not doing it. yang can't broker it. nobody's got $20 billion in cash that isn't piled under the mattress and has some curious brown stains on top of the bag.
not going to happen.
Yahoo is not an end-all solution... (Score:5, Interesting)
Yahoo represents the "old web" that Google is beating the pants off of. I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft/MSN's own resources are as good or better. What Microsoft is trying to do is get a leg up on Google, and purchasing Yahoo just won't do that.
Microsoft is better off buying something smaller, perhaps InterActiveCorp (IAC), owners of Ask.com and Excite, Evite, and Match.com, but even then it's only accomplishing the same thing. Whatever base they draw from, be it Yahoo, IAC, or MSN itself, they're going to have to do some radical building of new technology to go anywhere.
They are going to have to invest in actual development firm(s), and buy some up-and-coming companies like 37signals to get some real innovation. However, Google has already been doing this, so MS is getting sloppy seconds, and when you add that to the fact that Microsoft is horrible at the this concept (it's more typical that MS buys a company, takes its most salable product and integrates it into the MS product, then shelves the rest of the company and fires the staff).
ASP.NET is going to need some serious help gaining AJAX support if it wants to be a contender (or is this Silverlight's aspiration? *shudder* ... Silverlight should contend with Flash. None of the big web2.0 apps use Flash). This absolutely must be key to their web services plan if they want to stay a "leader" in the PL field. Remember when Hotmail went offline because they couldn't successfully port it from BSD to Windows? They still managed to do it eventually (or does it just run though a proxy?) ... porting languages is MUCH harder.
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I think Yahoo has been slowly reinventing themselves in the past two years. To call them "the old web" is rather shortsighted.
Maybe they're not moving as quickly as many people would like, but that's a different institutional issue. Also, consider that Yahoo has a crapload of "old web" customers and users who in many cases are simply averse to change. You can't just one day drop them in a super slick Ajax interface that ties into nine different social sites and expect them to be thankful - because they just
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Recall that story not long ago about official jQuery support in Visual Studio?
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Not a surprise (Score:1)
Ballmer's misspeak a few weeks ago was another big clue.
Move along, nothing to see here.
Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
There's something you're overlooking -- neither Youtube.com nor Google Video allow the posting of porn. Yahoo! does, making it one of the few mainstream providers who do. After that you have specialty niche sites like redtube.com and pornhub.com.
Maybe Microsoft wants to get into cataloging porn? lulz.
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Well... Bill Gates does have a lot of time on his hands now...
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Maybe Microsoft wants to get into cataloging porn? lulz.
If so, i hope that the companies involved realize that Embrace, Extend, Extinguish does NOT only apply to the wacky snuff fetishists.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Funny)
After that you have specialty niche sites like redtube.com and pornhub.com.
This, my friends, is why I love Slashdot. I learn something new every day!
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Not to mention Yahoo Groups. If you ever wanted to read something like some hot Severus/Frodo NC-17 BDSM fanfic crossover with furry pics, that's the first place to look ;)
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
and a loss of revenue
I bet this is going to get modded down or thoroughly ignored by everyone in this thread, but I like to remind tha Yahoo is profitable to the tune of several hundreds of million USD per quarter. That's not money one would spit on, not in this climate or in any financial climate!
If that didn't quite sink in: Yahoo puts in the bank several $100.000.000/quarter.
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
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All companies are lying off people. (Score:2)
You sell less you need less people, you do so to keep the company profitable.
Honestly, in which planet are you living?
Re:Why? (Score:4, Informative)
Which certainly doesn't make it worth even $20,000,000,000, especially if there is no indication that that profitably is increasing.
Yahoo! is a mature company, not an up-and-coming star. Unless you've got some real synergies to realize by acquiring it, that means that its current profitability has to justify the cost of the acquisition. Even if it was making $1 billion per year in profit and showing signs of doing that indefinitely into the future, that would only be a 5% annual return on a $20 billion investment, which is decent, but not stellar; but its not doing that much, and its not showing a lot of promise of keeping up what profitability it has, either.
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So, we have a profitable company here that rakes in hundreds of millions of dollars per quarter? After paying the employees? After taxes? You mean, pure profit?
Why in fucking hell are they so eager to sell it then? How greedy can you even get? If this kinda attitude is the norm nowadays then I can only shake my head in disgust and say: everyone involved probably deserves what they'll get.
On a more productive note: If you're so worried that all your products are crap and that your profit *may* decline in
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One name: Carl Icahn. The man doesn't know the meaning of the term 'innovation'.
Gerry
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I approve of the general sentiment of your post :o)
I wish you good luck with your startup!!
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Which certainly doesn't make it worth even $20,000,000,000, especially if there is no indication that that profitably is increasing.
I agree. I hope you realize that in my post I did not imply that Yahoo was worth that kind of money. All I was saying is that Yahoo is a viable company. The fact that it's not appetizing to Microsoft is a good thing from my personal point of view, because I like Yahoo the way it is, and I think a Microsoft ownership would change their services to the worse.
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They're buying a big portion of the search market. Believe it or not some people still use Yahoo for search.
Google owns around 70% of the searches on the 'net and climbing.
Yahoo is a very distant 2nd at ~17%.
MSN is around 8%.
These figures are around a year old.
If they have any hope of catching Google they'll need to combine forces, jettison some overhead and then still work like crazy to gain every percent.
Man I still remember when Alta Vista owned Search. Those guys really blew it.
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Go away, leave us alone (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Go away, leave us alone (Score:4, Informative)
Microsoft isn't bleeding. It saw a modest growth in profits in its first quarter of FY 2009. If holiday sales are poor this season. it is far better positioned than most to weather the storm.
I've got a stone to sell you (Score:1)
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How do you confuse the man Ballmer with the term 'developer'?
Gerry
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" I keep remembering the desparate "I need a boot loader" email I got from his sorry ass via UUCP. I contributed one out of common grace. And in that he fucked me."
Wow, care to share that story?
IANAL (Score:2)
but could one explain to me how a convicted monopolist would be allowed to do this? Or maybe I'm way off base here
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That conviction was mostly fluff because even the people who brought the suit in the first place don't have any actual resolution to the underlying problem short of "make Microsoft stop making Operating Systems so we can be a monopol
All of Yahoo! or just search? (Score:2)
Aren't they just asset-stripping Yahoo!'s search business and throwing the rest back to die like a finless shark?
(Though does anyone use Yahoo! Search? Come to think of it, does anyone use any Yahoo! properties other than Flickr and del.icio.us these days?)
Still, at least then, Flickr won't be "upgraded" to an all-Silverlight/Windows Media service that integrates tightly with the Windows 7 desktop or something.
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"(Though does anyone use Yahoo! Search? Come to think of it, does anyone use any Yahoo! properties other than Flickr and del.icio.us these days?)"
I think a lot of people still use Yahoo! Mail, and finance.yahoo.com (their financial info website; the finance site is really well done, as far as I can tell, and I don't think Google has anything that quite compares to finance.yahoo.com).
I mostly stopped using Yahoo search a long time ago, though occasionally I'll try it to see if it gives me different results t
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