The Chinese (Web Servers) Are Coming 231
Glyn Moody writes "The February 2009 Netcraft survey is not the usual 'Apache continues to trounce Microsoft IIS' story: there's a new entrant — from China. 'This majority of this month's growth is down to the appearance of 20 million Chinese sites served by QZHTTP. This web server is used by QQ to serve millions of Qzone sites beneath the qq.com domain.' What exactly is this QZHTTP, and what does it all mean for the world of Web servers?"
Self-Censored (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Self-Censored (Score:5, Funny)
Self Censoring Web servers! Automatically removes all politically sensitive info for you! This will catch on quick, I bet!
pfft. I've had this running as an apache module for years. mod_bigbrother ftw.
Re: (Score:2)
pfft. I've had this running as an apache module for years. mod_bigbrother ftw.
OK, I admit it, I googled mod_bigbrother to see if it really existed.
It doesn't yet, but given the number of modules that exist for Apache
Re: (Score:2)
Your plugin isn't secure enough. I use mod_devnull.so
but they have dependencies (Score:2)
mod_moron and mod_troll have to be preinstalled. i guess that is the setup you are using anyway so no problem.
Trade me your valuable Gold for my worthless Money (Score:2)
Re:Trade me your valuable Gold for my worthless Mo (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
This of course is true as long the majority is not forced under 30$k level because then the only branch of economy that actually sees growth is security firms and prison service.
One must also ask question based on recent events - how much of these 19m$ (to keep your example) is real and how much was value 'added' by finance sector (mostly using spreadsheet software)?
By all means - let people make their business and get rich or super rich but if balance is lost then society dissipates and the only way to ke
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
trickle-down economics *works*.
Yeah, it got Reagan elected. As an economic theory, it's bunk - rich people are rich because they spend a lot less than they earn.
Re: (Score:2)
trickle-down economics *works*.
Yeah, it got Reagan elected. As an economic theory, it's bunk - rich people are rich because they spend a lot less than they earn.
Or, failing that, because they spent a lot before the rest of us caught on.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Self-Censored (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Yes it works. It gives jobs to people in Dubai, India, and China, all completely irrelevant to the average American.
Trickle down economics doesn't do a single damn thing for the American who is out of work and needing a job. Getting projects done like infrastructure does create American jobs. Look how the US got out of the Great Depression. It wasn't trickle down spending that pulled us out of that, it was getting people to build bridges, roads, and infrastructure.
In previous recessions, the FED was abl
Re: (Score:2)
In any case, there's currently no tax on long-term capital gains. If corporations need cash, why not cut the corporate income tax, rather than giving money to the rich and hoping they'll invest it?
Investing isn't likely to be the first place anyone would put their money right now. Even the rich might just turn around and buy treasury bonds, or foreign bonds/investments. After all, the "socialist" European countries are more likely to keep
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Lets just look recently eh?
Giving money to the rich in the form of tax cuts has left the economy in a great state has it not?
Frankly the naivety of folk who believe in the con called trickle down effect borders on complete stupidity.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, it can handle heavy loads, but how quickly can your web server sync its logs with gov.cn?
Re: (Score:2)
But it's also funny. Wasn't it Heinlein who posited that all humor is based in pain?
Corrected Story Blurb (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
exactly.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
This web server is used by QQ to serve millions of Qzone sites beneath the qq.com domain.'
I don't think whoever modded you troll understands the meaning of QQ...
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
Nippon QQ
Ash gala wonderful
Easy rider salad the mall
Who dong hide label
GOO! GOO! GOO! GOO!
BUS! BUS! BUS! BUS!
Re: (Score:2)
Last I checked, it was net/phone-slang for 'cry moar.'[sic] As in QQ noob.[siq]
I suspect that isn't what you mean, though.
Re: (Score:2, Funny)
net/phone-slang ? I tried to emerge that, and nothing happened. Is this a new variant of slang that supports voip? Where can I get it?
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
As in, a dozen men stand around a woman and QQ all over her face.
Pheature creep... (Score:2)
Ah, is it still considered phishing when it's a feature enabled by default?
Just curious.
Re:Pheature creep... (Score:5, Funny)
Ah, is it still considered phishing when it's a feature enabled by default?
Just curious.
Teach one man to phish and he can feed...
Teach 20 million to phish and you have the Internet.
Population growth (Score:5, Funny)
The GeoCities of China? (Score:5, Interesting)
Its parent company is a media company [wikipedia.org]
What exactly is this QZHTTP?
I honestly don't know. Never heard of it before now, my Google Fu finds nothing in English. Indicating it is most likely propriety to Tancent QQ ...
... won't every large company soon be able to foot the bill on and house (what appears to be) 20 million web servers? I guess IP addressing, routing & bandwidth will always be a problem but the hardware is sure getting to the point.
I hope this didn't affect the IPv4 exhaustion date [wikipedia.org].
I guess this could also just be a whole lot of fuss over something that will become common place. I mean with the event of virtualization, hilarious 32 core chips due out and predictably cheap storage/memory
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:4, Informative)
My guess on the QZHTTP thing is that they're simply sending their own banner, rather than that of their real server. It's not exactly rocket science. Anyone who's good enough to handle millions of domains can set one line of configuration I wish we had some examples. The qq.com domain itself, besides being pathetically slow, gives these headers:
telnet www.qq.com 80
Connected to www.qq.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET ? HTTP/1.1
HTTP/1.0 400 Bad Request
Server: squid/2.6.STABLE5
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:17:23 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 1336
Expires: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:17:23 GMT
X-Squid-Error: ERR_INVALID_URL 0
X-Cache: MISS from rainny.qq.com
Via: 1.0 rainny.qq.com:80 (squid/2.6.STABLE5)
Connection: close
So, I'd guess they're basing that analysis on the Via or X-Cache lines (or both)
For those who aren't familiar with the headers, this is what it looks like from Slashdot
telnet slashdot.org 80
Trying 216.34.181.45...
Connected to slashdot.org.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET ? HTTP/1.1
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:19:49 GMT
Server: Apache/1.3.41 (Unix) mod_perl/1.31-rc4
Connection: close
Transfer-Encoding: chunked
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Vary: Accept-Encoding, User-Agent
I'll simpify the rest, and just show the "Server:" line.
Apache.org: Server: Apache/2.2.9 (Unix)
Microsoft: Server: Microsoft-HTTPAPI/2.0
Whitehouse.gov: Server: AkamaiGHost
cnn.com: Server: Apache
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Netcraft confirms it! Apache is dying, to be replaced by Apache!
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:5, Informative)
Try qzone.qq.com rather than just qq.com.
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:41:06 GMT
Server: QZHTTP-2.3
Content-type: text/html
Content-length: 1728
Connection: close
Re: (Score:2)
telnet qzone.qq.com 80
Trying 58.251.60.181...
Connected to qzone.qq.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET - HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Server: qhttpd
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 235
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>400 Bad Request</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><H2>400 Bad Request</H2>Your request has bad syntax or is inherently impossible to satisfy.<HR><ADDRESS><A HREF="http://w
Am I Seeing Double? (Score:2)
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:5, Informative)
I think you are mistaken here.
The sites in question are not qq.com they are subdomains of .qzone.qq.com
(BTW http://qzone.qq.com/ [qq.com] by itself does not use QZHTTP 2.3 web server software it uses Apache)
like
http://182273490.qzone.qq.com/ [qq.com]
Here is the netcraft report for that site:
http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=182273490.qzone.qq.com [netcraft.com]
These sites appear to be running on Linux and state they are running QZHTTP-2.3 web server software.
Yes you can edit the banner but often netcraft digs further into it then this (response times, packet information, etc) and doesn't blindly use the banner value.
It is likely to be using a modified version of Apache like Google do with their GWS (Google Web Server) software.
And thus given a separate version of web server software in its own right. So I suspect there has to be a significant changes to the normal operation/code of Apache (or whatever they have modded). It could be a whole new set of web server software but likely a significantly modified version.
Hope it helps
Re: (Score:2)
Mod parent up.
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:4, Interesting)
Spoofing headers to fool Netcraft is nothing new. Bruce Perens did it [netcraft.com] with his Open Source Parking project. He was using lighttpd but wanted to help Apache's numbers.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Two things:
Use netcat, not telnet.
Send a HEAD request, not a bogus GET.
Re: (Score:2)
X-Cache: MISS from rainny.qq.com
Via: 1.0 rainny.qq.com:80 (squid/2.6.STABLE5)
Connection: close
So, I'd guess there basing that analysis on the Via or X-Cache lines (or both)
From the X-Cache line you can find the server name but not the server type...
From the via line you can find the server which in this example is squid... nothing to do with QZHTTP.
Using qzone.qq.com you get:-
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Server: qhttpd
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 235
Re:The GeoCities of China? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know about malware in QQ's software, but QQ is much more than just China's answer to Microsoft Messenger.
QQ is a portal site that links to search engines and also provides users a place to create their "home" on the Internet, much like live.com and other sites.
Yes, QQ is insanely popular in China, as is MSN and Yahoo! chat.
It's apache (Score:2)
I'll bet dollars to donuts it's just "a patchy" apache. This raises the question as to how netcraft should determine speciation...
Might be a version of thttpd instead (Score:5, Insightful)
telnet qzone.qq.com 80
Trying 58.251.60.181...
Connected to qzone.qq.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET - HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request
Server: qhttpd
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 235
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>400 Bad Request</TITLE></HEAD><BODY><H2>400 Bad Request</H2>Your request has bad syntax or is inherently impossible to satisfy.<HR><ADDRESS><A HREF="http://www.tencent.com/">qhttpd Server</A></ADDRESS></BODY></HTML>
Compare that message with:
thttpd-2.25b
libhttpd.c: "Your request has bad syntax or is inherently impossible to satisfy.\n";
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Proprietary? Perhaps. But I'd be willing to bet that the codebase is more than likely a fork of Apache or another open source web server, or else a "customised" version of IIS. Copyrights are not a Chinese concept, and I doubt that a site as large as QQ claims to be is running off a web server they rolled themselves.
Re: (Score:2)
We don't use that word widely in the major variants of UK English either.
Neck-and-neck (Score:4, Insightful)
LOL- good to see MS prompted to fight for its second place standing.
Why mock this ? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I don't understand the people mocking this. Sure this is probably a service a la geocities with a minority of webpages worth of any interest. But some are. Internet gains million of new users and publishers and people just dismiss this as non-significant while we should try to build bridges. As ugly a Myspace-QQ bridge may sound, it could be a worthwhile objective...
At least Geocities was better than Myspace.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Barely. I think the only way in which Geocities wins that contest is there were no integrated forums/walls on each garish, color-clashing, animation heavy page.
Geocities had fewer instances of black text over very dark and busy background images, and slightly less music loading with the page. Also, for awhile people put quasi-content on geocities. Little freeware apps, etc. I haven't seen something useful yet on Myspace.
Re: (Score:2)
I think you have very rose-tinted memorise of geocities. It didn't have as much black text on a black background, but it did have a lot of fluorescent text on a repeating background image.
MySpace, at least, is used by a few bands. Weird Al, for example, has put a few tracks up there for free download.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't understand the people mocking this. Sure this is probably a service a la geocities with a minority of webpages worth of any interest. But some are. Internet gains million of new users and publishers and people just dismiss this as non-significant while we should try to build bridges. As ugly a Myspace-QQ bridge may sound, it could be a worthwhile objective...
There are times that I'd like to give China a small hint on the best way to culturally take the US would be. First mandate an entire generation
Re:Why mock this ? (Score:5, Funny)
We'd learn some sweet Mandarin phrases, get some space ships, and then live in a pseudo wild-west sci-fi sort of situation.
Just remember; I do the job, I get paid.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Why do you want to do this?
It seems you want to elevate the Chinese by introducing them to your superior culture.
An entire generation of Chinese students is ALREADY learning English.
They ALREADY have net books and cell phones.
They ALREADY have their own mirror internet with youtube and facebook clones.
And I already know the real average Chinese point of view because I asked them. They think their nation and culture is superior, just like most people from every other nation and culture.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Seriously, what would be the point of this ? Do you think they don't have their own blogosphere, slashdot, webcomics, news sources ? All in the language that the biggest part of humanity uses ?
Re:Why mock this ? (Score:5, Funny)
A) Americans, learn a foreign language? You must be joking.
B) Taking over French things is the Germans' job.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Hey, that's not fair. I saw one good Geocities site....
Once....
A long time ago...
Ok, you're right. :)
Re: (Score:2)
I like your geocities page and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
Dumb as a brick, I installed MS ME.
GeoCities == 1999 (Score:2)
Alright, I'm calling your bluff: link to one GeoCities page worth our time.
http://www.geocities.com/rcwoolley/ [geocities.com]
Pretty clever... and no clashing-colour or non-scrolling-starfield background in sight!
:-)
At the same time, it's hardly topical and doesn't exactly counter the notion that nothing on GeoCities has been updated since the year 2000...
Software vs. content (Score:3, Insightful)
"...What exactly is this QZHTTP, and what does it all mean for the world of Web servers?"
Ah, what does it all mean? I dunno, are the Chinese proposing some sort of new web server protocol standard? Is there a new RFC out?
Seems we might be confusing web content with web server software and/or protocols. IM and blogging isn't exactly new, and neither is the idea that whatever China chooses to put online en masse would be larger than just about anything else in the world based on their population numbers alone.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Ah, what does it all mean? I dunno, are the Chinese proposing some sort of new web server protocol standard? Is there a new RFC out?
They've just called their software 'QZHTTP'. Try 'telnet qzone.qq.com 80' and 'HEAD / HTTP/1.0' and you'll see for yourself:
Server: QZHTTP-2.3
I don't think anyone's suggesting there's a new protocol here.
Websites (Score:5, Interesting)
What exactly is this QZHTTP (Score:3, Funny)
LOL web admins (Score:2)
Let's see how all you pro free-trade computer people make out now. Boy, after decades of saying that auto-workers should make the same as their chinese counterparts, how will it feel to hear corporations saying the same about computer people?
Re: (Score:2)
Is there any reason why someone should make more here for the same work than someone in Asia? Do you apply the same logic toward automation and the resulting cost savings?
Whether by computers or by cheap labour in China, reducing the cost of production generates wealth. If you want all the jobs to stay in the US - automotive, coffee plantations, shoe manufacturing, fruit picking, etc - how would you have time to create new te
Re: (Score:2)
Is there any reason why someone should make more here for the same work than someone in Asia? Do you apply the same logic toward automation and the resulting cost savings?
Yeah, I would prefer to not live in a one room hut with 20 people. I like to have more than one TV. In fact, come to think of it, I really, really like electricity.
Re:LOL web admins (Score:4, Insightful)
Every job has a cost - the opportunity cost. Reduce that cost and you increase wealth.
It's whose wealth is being increased, is the question that we're asking here.
Re: (Score:2)
Is there any reason why someone should make more here for the same work than someone in Asia?
Yes.
How is the price of bread set in the United States?
How is the price of bread set in China?
Once you see the difference there you should be able to understand why it is critical for someone here to be paid differently than someone in China, and why Tariffs can be used not just for protection and isolation, but to foster a healthy global economy.
-Rick
Re: (Score:2)
Let's see how all you pro free-trade computer people make out now. Boy, after decades of saying that auto-workers should make the same as their chinese counterparts, how will it feel to hear corporations saying the same about computer people?
I guess you have been hiding under a rock for the last 6+ years or so and entirely missed the whole offshoring-to-India movement? Thousands of jobs forever lost to the WalMarts of India IT.
Frankly, if those jobs went to China from India, I'd probably laugh at this point. It would only be a change in accent from the people I have to deal with every day already. The level of service couldn't possibly go lower.
Re: (Score:2)
I guess you have been hiding under a rock for the last 6+ years or so and entirely missed the whole offshoring-to-India movement? Thousands of jobs forever lost to the WalMarts of India IT.
No, I really haven't. I noticed it most when American Express offshored its customer service, and they position themselves as a premium service card. I've actually argued that of all the dumb things that McCain and Republicans did in the campaigns of the last, oh, 6 years, was to be in favor of free trade. It's politic
The biggest problem with QZHTTP (Score:5, Funny)
An hour later and your browser is hungry for headers again.
The Great Scrabble Offensive of Twenty Ought-Nine! (Score:5, Funny)
In other news, (Score:5, Funny)
served by QZHTTP. This web server is used by QQ to serve millions of Qzone sites beneath the qq.com domain
A quorum of queasy, quitting queens, quaffing questionable quaaludes, quietly quote quips of quality quite exquisitely.
Please no more... (Score:5, Insightful)
Stop linking to zero content, zero insight, zero analysis blogs!
oblig (Score:4, Funny)
Don't swim against the current, but perpendicular to it.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
But to be fair, it's a story about web servers. The most mundane of all implementation details-- who even slightly gives a crap whether a site uses IIS, Apache, or Bob's Discount House of HTML Hosting?
QQ more noob! (Score:2)
What's the point of the second article. (Score:2)
What makes this all slightly troubling is that I don't know anything about QZHTTP: I presume it's not open souce, since I can't find any links to its code.
The only point that I could find from the second article (oh wait, random vapid blog post referencing the first article). What kind of logic is this? "I don't know anything about X, therefore X must be a scourge upon the earth." I personally don't know anything about Glyn Moody, so I assume he is a SCO shill trying to incite terrorism.
Logic (Score:2)
What kind of logic is this? "I don't know anything about X, therefore X must be a scourge upon the earth."
Well, it's not the logic in the article you're referencing, so my guess is that it's reductio ad absurdum.
Getting back to the logic in the article itself... if it was open source, then he would likely have been able to find it by searching the web. He tried to find links to it, failed, so it's a reasonable assumption that it's not open source. He obviously doesn't like the idea that it's proprietary. Pe
Netcraft confirms it (Score:2)
I, for one, am thrilled! (Score:3, Insightful)
It's a whole new arena from which the Chinese hackers can continue to launch their lame--but oh, so annoying--port scans and root login attempts. I'm jaded enough to be willing to bet money that the security will be up to the usual high Chinese standards--absent unless they decide to block something. Every day I have the same struggle: Bad Self says, "Just block the whole goddamned country." Good Self says, "Shame on you." One of these days, Bad Self is going to win.
(Speaking of lame login attempts, the firewall just blocked the first one ever from Rwanda. Good Self is telling me that I should be encouraged that they actually have an Internet there...)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You have to love the kits they use too... I saw a "Sendmail WIZ" exploit attempt a couple months ago. :)
Frightening? (Score:2)
I don't get why the article is being sensationalist about this. Is it simply a re-configured Apache? Is it a new closed source platform? I just don't know. It's curious, yes, but hardly frightening.
Competition *IS* good right?
Maybe I'm missing something like... Is the server itself doing anything odd other than "being mysterious"?
Less QQ... (Score:2)
Actually, wait. Considering this is China, I'll accept QQ instead of pewpew.
fortune cookie (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Apache can do this (Score:2)
Server: Apache/2.2.0 - However, I know for a fact it is running 2.2.11
That can easily be changed in the mod security ruleset to be anything. Like this: Server: Myfakehttpdtakesovertheworld/1.9
I'd bet it is just apache.
qhttpd (Score:5, Interesting)
they're using qhttpd and linux.
filtered/parsed results from running :
nmap -A -T4 -F 182273490.qzone.qq.com
Port80-TCP : i686-pc-linux-gnu
501 Method Not Implemented
The requested method 'OPTIONS' is not implemented by this server.
http://www.tencent.com/ [tencent.com] - qhttpd Server
Server: qhttpd
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Content-Length: 255
info on qhttpd :
http://www.xman.org/Qhttpd/design.shtml [xman.org]
Goofy question (Score:2)
" What exactly is this QZHTTP, and what does it all mean for the world of Web servers?"
I think the first question is settled on the page referenced (as well as in another reply here), but the second one really cracked me up. Why should it mean anything of import to "the world of web servers"?
Even if it were truly a new piece of code written in China as opposed to Apache (maybe with mods, maybe not), why would anyone outside China worry? As for the Chinese, I suspect they're far more concerned with overall
Really? (Score:2)
Re:Good News ! Dear China : +1, Informative (Score:4, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
think. then it will.
Re: (Score:2)
Uh, based on this Slashdot comment [slashdot.org] I get the feeling they built it themselves from scratch. None of the mainstream FOSS servers would be implemented so badly that they'd give you the entire HTML page in the response to a HEAD request. Not even IIS is dumb enough to do that.