First Look At Windows 7 On an Entry-Level Netbook 435
davidmwilliams sends in his IT Wire review of how Windows 7RC1 performs on an Acer Aspire One netbook. Summing up: it runs, it won't win any speed competitions, you won't want to play Crysis on it, and it's pretty OK for light-duty, everyday tasks. In related news, several readers have noted that Windows 7 RC1 is now available; one anonymous reader notes "This time, Microsoft was smart not to limit the time that it's available or the number of keys. It will be up for download until July, so there's lots of time to grab a copy."
Worth a try (Score:5, Funny)
troll?? Me thinks its a joke (Score:2)
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At the risk of being redundant (Score:5, Insightful)
as many others type this in at the same time - but it sounds like it pretty much runs like all other netbooks - regardless of the OS.
Re:At the risk of being redundant (Score:5, Informative)
as many others type this in at the same time - but it sounds like it pretty much runs like all other netbooks - regardless of the OS.
I agree except for one quote:
Once I had loaded Microsoft Office 2007 the 1GB of RAM became insufficient and the computer started page faulting.
I don't know if 1GB of RAM should be too little for an OS and MS Word. I will say that my 5 year old laptop has no problem running Office 2000 on Windows XP ... with 512MB of very very slow ram. The same laptop has no problems running a simplified Linux with Open Office either. I say "simplified" because, yes, the default Ubuntu graphics shitfest causes it to be a bit unstable at times.
I'm not sure which piece of the equation is making a glorified word processing program page fault on 1GB of RAM but I think that's a bit ridiculous.
Re:At the risk of being redundant (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not sure which piece of the equation is making a glorified word processing program page fault on 1GB of RAM but I think that's a bit ridiculous.
Yeah? Try Office 2007. Well, my comment is probably redundant as well - What would you expect from MS?
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I'm not sure which piece of the equation is making a glorified word processing program page fault on 1GB of RAM but I think that's a bit ridiculous.
I used to think the same about an anti-virus running on barebones windows, until I saw the Norton Suite running on Vista...
Re:At the risk of being redundant (Score:4, Informative)
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I agree with you on almost all of your points, though I have to disagree on cmake. Compared to autotools it's wicked fast, it's far more platform independant, and it makes life much easier for the developer. Autotools was always a complete pain in the ass but with cmake I can spend my time actually coding instead of hacking together a build system.
Re:At the risk of being redundant (Score:5, Funny)
My vintage 2000 500MHz P-III, fully maxed out with 384MB of RAM ran Win98 for years, was later upgraded to Win98SE, then upgraded again to XP-Pro SP3, recently.
(I know, I know, you should ALWAYS install new and NEVER upgrade, but I have licensed software on it for which I no longer have install media or keys, and heck, it worked.)
Anyway it runs Firefox and Office 2003 just fine, if slowly.
When my kids misbehave, they have to use it instead of the regular machine to do their homework for an appropriate period of time.
When they REALLY misbehave, I disable MS Office (by changing the ACL on the install directory) and force them to run OpenOffice (with Java enabled) on it.
Works great. They RARELY misbehave anymore.
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Compare to Ubuntu (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know if 1GB of RAM should be too little for an OS and MS Word.
I'm on ubuntu, using 871 MB of RAM atm, with firefox using a whopping 16% of my total 2 GB (= 327 MB).
My systems runs ok, but I guess it'll get a lost faster if I kill fi
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Word might be to blame. Microsoft states that Word needs 256MB RAM minimum, and 1GB RAM for grammar and contextual spelling to be turned on.
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At an earlier point in TFA, the author states (emphasis mine)
Upon logging in, and without any other programs installed or running, 7.73GB of the hard drive was used already. On a roomy 160GB hard drive that's not a problem but if your netbook uses a solid state hard disk then space may be more of a premium.
The task manager's performance tab showed 33 processes running and 465MB of RAM - or about 45% - in use while sitting idle. While nearly half the RAM being consumed without actually doing anything useful may be concerning it's not actually a big deal. Microsoft claim that Windows 7 (and Vista too, but its success is arguable) pre-loads parts of programs it expects you to use.
So the 465MB of RAM actually seem to be the consumption of Windows 7, because there were no applications besides the OS installed that could be preloaded. The rest obviously is the fault of Office 2007. Which is also a lot more than I'd expect from an office application.
For comparison:
Right now, I'm running Windows XP SP3, have several SeaMonkey(Browser) windows open and I have started Open Office with a small text document. Memory usage according
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Yeah, but a well designed OS doesn't page to disk when it's not necessary. If the entire OS and the app suite can be held in RAM, then it should be. If Win7 is generating page faults, then either the entire memory requirement is greater than the installed RAM or Win7 is swapping stuff out when it shouldn't. Either way, Win7 doesn't come out looking all that great as far as I'm concerned.
Re:At the risk of being redundant (Score:5, Insightful)
There are two schools of thought on this issue. There is yours, then there is what most experts believe.
Most experts will tell you that there is no reason to keep 50+% of the app in memory when it's not being used. That memory can be put to better use by increasing the buffers and caches. It's silly to keep parts of an app in memory that aren't being used.
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Also I know som
entry level? (Score:4, Insightful)
Would you really call those specs "entry level", as in "the lowest specs available"?
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That's what I have on my large Averatec 2250 laptop (with upgraded RAM and hard drive). My "netbook" is OLPC XO.
Re:entry level? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:entry level? (Score:5, Interesting)
Are netbooks anything other than "entry level".
My wife bought an Asus netbook a few weeks ago and opted to pay a couple hundred bucks more for a nicer model. There are some predictable upgrades you get for a few bucks more, but the most impressive is the expanded battery. While she was installing Office 2007 on her fully charged battery I asked her to hover the cursor over the power gauge, and lo and behold it reported 6.5 hours of battery remaining - and that was at nearly full load. She can take notes in school all day without being tethered to an electrical socket. That's quite a leap forward in mobile computing, though as TFA specifies, she won't be playing Crysis on the thing. Guild Wars, however...
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Still enough.
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Entry Level != Lowest Spec Available
The lowest spec available would be a niche market for people that need a very low powered machine - eg the original Eee PC. Many netbooks actually have 2GB of RAM. Those specs ARE pretty typical entry-level netbook specs looking at the reviews sat on my desk.
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640kb ought to be enought for anyone.
My, oh my, how far we've come. 1000x isn't even minimal, any more.
Must be some sort of Windows Guru (Score:5, Funny)
hehehehehehe
"However, at all times it was a stable experience, just increasingly slower as I attempted to do more simultaneously."
Re:Must be some sort of Windows Guru (Score:5, Funny)
you don't know what a page fault is, do you?
It's an electoral liability in the House of Representatives.
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I wish I had mod points for you. You are right. This guy apparently doesn't know. From his post, it appears that he thinks a page fault is something like a blue screen error or GPF. The truth is, page fault is the technical term for what people commonly refer to as swapping. The program tried to access a page of memory that is no longer resident in physical memory and has been swapped out to the virtual memory swap file. It is treated much like any other invalid memory access, in that the program is suspend
But what about the sidebar? (Score:4, Interesting)
The one thing I really like about Vista is the sidebar, I find it pretty useful having currency converter, calendar and such immediately to hand. In Windows 7 they seem to have done away with it and made the gadgets stand alone such that they either obscure windows if set to always on top, or they hide behind them otherwise making them either annoying or useless depending on which setting you have.
As the performance tweaks in Windows 7 don't matter to me because my machine is powerful enough that I've not had performance issues in Vista nor noticed a difference with Windows 7 beta anyway and as I don't find the new taskbar worthwhile is there anything in Windows 7 that makes it worthwhile?
I can see Windows 7 being good for those who held on to XP, but for those of us who did switch to Vista and have had no problems with it (so all 3 of us then :p), and particularly those of us who liked the sidebar it seems a step backwards. I can't see the gadgets being worthwhile to anyone in their current incarnation - has anyone found them useful when they're only ever out the way or in the way?
Re:But what about the sidebar? (Score:5, Insightful)
How many times per hour do you need to convert currency, or check what today's date is? If that's your business, then you're using the wrong tool. If it's NOT your business, then the widgets are just masturbation.
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That's an oversimplified view of my usage patterns.
I buy/sell stuff online from other countries a fair bit and like having an immediate way to do the currency conversion.
Weather is handy to see, as I can keep an eye out for sudden major drops outdoors as I grow tropical plants in a cold climate so sometimes need to act if the temp drops too much but also because I do a 45 minute commute to/from work every day and so have the weather for home and work and depending on the weather at both locations I alter my
Re:But what about the sidebar? (Score:5, Informative)
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I don't like the sidebar because there just aren't enough apps to make it useful. I use it at work because I like the currency converter and a remote desktop access manager gadget, but I arbitrarily stuck 3 post-it note gadgets on there to fill the rest of the space. At home the only gadget I cared about was a multiple POP3 mail checker, but I'm not about to sacrifice a huge chunk of screen width just for that.
That's one thing I adore about Windows 7. I can stick those gadgets anywhere and they don't tak
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I actually... (Score:2)
Whoa (Score:5, Insightful)
Hold on, WTH:
- It takes 450-odd Mb of RAM to just sit at a clean, freshly installed desktop. I'm still running networks of machines that run on XP with 512Mb and suffer no appreciable performance loss (admittedly well-managed in terms of applications, but we run Office too).
- When you install Office 2007, it swaps like mad with 1Gb of RAM.
- It takes 7Gb of drive space to install.
That is *not* a comfortable operating system for a netbook, it really isn't. My XP laptop is about as powerful as that netbook (although mine is dual-core and has a much nicer graphics card) and yet it'll take all of the above amounts of RAM, for a basic Office install - but I have a ton of other crap installed and running (my current Opera session is taking 70Mb of RAM, for instance). So what you have is *not* a netbook but a run-of-the-mill laptop. However, if I was to try to run this on, say, an Asus EEEPC it's likely to fall flat on its face before you even start (4Gb flash, oops, bang). Where XP would be quite happy, I'd like to add (or at worst, a nLite CD would work). And that's before you even START actually using the damn thing to get work done.
Just off the top of my head, booting a Slackware CD, pressing "yes" to everything, etc. will get you into a full X-Windows environment with several window managers, thousands of apps, all in under 5Gb storage (most of that being silly stuff like gcc, KDE I18n, and TeX) and able to run in a few hundred Meg RAM. With OpenOffice, yeah you might get a bit of swapping went you first load but the point of netbooks etc. is the nice suspend options, and it sounds like it wouldn't be anywhere near as bad.
I know this is all based on a "blog-o-expert", but hell... it's obviously not suited to the task. Just like XP isn't really suited to the task. But it sounds like it does an even worse job. Yeah, with some tweaking you can probably get rid of a lot of crap but you're never going to be able to pare it down as far as XP, or any version of Linux.
So in the age of netbooks, where people are getting them thrown at them with their mobile phone contracts, MS's idea is to release (and thus force upon people) a new OS that doesn't really handle them at all unless you voluntarily soup them up and kill their performance/battery life. Good plan. I was seriously half expecting a special "7 mobile" edition at some point that would merge the CE and NT-based product lines for netbooks, seeing how that's the buzzword at the moment. In the absense of that, another growing OS is hardly a surprise. I'm actually pleasantly surprised that it wasn't a LOT worse than this. Vista upgrades were a really, really big deal and killed many an upgrade plan stone dead. This isn't in those realms, but it's hardly good news.
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Uh, you do know that RAM is cheap, right? I understand that it's annoying to buy more RAM to use an OS that has no additional features that are of interest except support, but really who runs computers with 512 MB of RAM? For corporations with thousands of computers this might be annoying. On the other hand, since they have thousands of computers they can probably afford it. I don't think consumers will care that much. This seems to be a tempest in a teapot to me.
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Uh, you do know that RAM is cheap, right?
Cheap in dollars or cheap in watts?
who runs computers with 512 MB of RAM?
People who use PCs with old chipsets that aren't compatible with larger RAM modules.
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> Uh, you do know that RAM is cheap, right?
That's true. But, you know that (ostensibly to keep costs down, but probably also for marketing reasons) netbooks are often limited by the manufacturer as to how much ram they can hold, right?
For example, the spec sheet for the Acer Aspire One, the netbook used in the article, has "1 Gb RAM max". So unless you're good with a soldering iron, that's all you're getting. And at $350 (street), the Aspire One is not even at the bottom end.
I suspect that even
In short... it is Vista SP3 plus lipstick... (Score:2)
All the positive media hype notwithstanding.... 7 will receive the same response from the user community as did Vista. Bloatware... just not suitable for Netbooks.
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It takes 450-odd Mb of RAM to just sit at a clean, freshly installed desktop.
FTFA:
While nearly half the RAM being consumed without actually doing anything useful may be concerning it's not actually a big deal. Microsoft claim that Windows 7 (and Vista too, but its success is arguable) pre-loads parts of programs it expects you to use.
Unused RAM is not doing anything for you.
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I recently tried Windows 7 and Ubuntu 9.04 on my older laptop. To my dismay, neither worked out of the box, nor could I overcome driver problems in a reasonable time period (1 hour). So, back to XP. It's frustrating. I haven't tried a slackware distro in ages, so maybe I'll give that a shot but my hopes for working broadcom 43xx wifi drivers aren't high... Harder to understand why radeon xpress cards aren't supported in Windows 7 given that they work fine in Vista...
So, drivers are my first big complai
Windows 7 is for latte sippers. VISTA! (Score:5, Funny)
Could everyone please sign up to the Save Vista [today.com] campaign. Like Hummer like Chrysler, like Edsel, Vista shows the might of full-sized American industrial production. Itâ(TM)s a monument to everything that makes us great. We can't let it be trashed for misguided corporate attempts to suck up to latte sippers.
Say No To Seven! VISTA VISTA VISTA! All the way!
I really want Windows to carry on being crap (Score:2, Insightful)
Now that I've switched away from windows after getting stuck with Vista, it's so annoying that the next release by all accounts is actually going to be passably good (though is that astroturfing?).
It's annoying because Windows is like a wife-beating husband. You live with it for years and years of pain, disappointment and broken promises, but just when you think you're ready to leave forever they turn around all smiles and sweetness.
I'm tired of MS's patent crap. I'm tired of the DRM. I'm tired of the FUD.
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It's annoying because Windows is like a wife-beating husband. You live with it for years and years of pain, disappointment and broken promises, but just when you think you're ready to leave forever they turn around all smiles and sweetness.
So it's like running Linux, except that at some point Windows does turn around to "smiles and sweetness." Linux just kept punching.
Re:I really want Windows to carry on being crap (Score:4, Interesting)
I'm tired of MS's patent crap.
It's not really your problem, unless you are working as a competitor, but I doubt you are.
I'm tired of the DRM.
Don't purchase DRM protected content. Two birds, one stone
I'm tired of the FUD.
Oh, you made a poor choice with Linux then. There's plenty of FUD to be had. Been to BoycotNovell lately? COLA? Read any Kdawson posts?
I'm tired of mediocre product after mediocre product.
Linux is a good choice for you then. It's not even a product. More of a garage band of programmers trying to find solutions without a problem.
I'm tired of their high prices.
Considering as important and widespread as Windows is, its price is pretty reasonable. You can even upgrade for a discount.
I'm tired of them stacking the ISO.
Yes, because God forbid Microsoft, who knows about creating software to handle documents, gets involved in creating a document standard nobody really gives a shit about in the first place.
I'm tired of embrace extend extinguish.
You got FOSS dude, why shed a tear for proprietary crapware?
I'm tired of fixing other people's computers from malware.
Fortunately for you, Linux will never be popular enough to be a prime target.
I'm tired of the overwhelming OS storage footprints, and everything else they do to ruin computing for everyone.
Correction: Ruined for you. Don't push your beliefs on everyone else. You are just one person, and a pretty grumpy one at that. If your budget for computer hardware is tight, then Linux is your obvious choice.
I'm tired of the whole company and I wish everyone would dump them forever.
Ha ha, dream on.
Excellent (Score:5, Funny)
Excellent! The top speed of Windows 7 is 7.9 rather than 5.9. That a 34% increase.
This is how things compare to me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lets see...
* Spend $50-60 on a 2 gig ram chip.
* Spend $200+ on Windows 7 (Netbook Version)
* Spend $40-60 on antivirus.
* Spend $200 on Office
* Limited to three applications.
After buying a Netbook PC.
OR
* Spend $50-60 on a 2 gig ram chip.
* Download and install Ubuntu Netbook Remix 9.04.
* Stick with Open Office and still handle most Office documents.
* Unlimited applications.
After buying a Netbook PC.
Hmmm... tough choice there.
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Well, for starters, 2 gig of ram costs about $35. Even less if you're buying in bulk like an OEM.
Next, the starter edition (limited to 3 apps) is more like $10 than $200. Microsoft's idea is that those that need more will upgrade to a versin that doesn't have the limit.
Next, Microsoft has recently said they will be providing Antivirus free sometime in the future, not sure when that will happen though. There are also half a dozen free anti-virus options like AVG and Avast.
Then you can run OpenOffice or Sy
My kingdom for an editor! (Score:3, Interesting)
Funny, I never realized unlimited time ends in July. Why the hell is there an inane quote from an anonymous reader in the summary? Why not just say, "MS is making the beta available until July, much longer than earlier releases." I realize this is
Crysis? (Score:3, Insightful)
Well duh - the same thing can be said about the same netbook running XP or Linux. Where's the Windows 7 RC1 review?
Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm pretty sure Dell Mini 9 + OSX = breaking the license. Or has apple suddenly made an about face in this regard?
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The license agreement may not even be legal.
Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:5, Interesting)
Just breaking the license doesn't make it illegal. We've all seen unenforceable clauses in licenses and until Apple's license is tested in court, we won't know if the "Apple-branded" hardware bit is legitimate or not.
Of course, if you pirate a copy, instead of buying one that is illegal.
But if you buy a copy of OSX and install it on a non-Apple-branded computer, somehow I doubt that Apple will make too much of a fuss.
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I didn't say it was illegal - I said it breaks the license. There are plenty of negative ramifications to being in that state that have nothing to do with legality.
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Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:4, Informative)
Limited support? Lack of drivers?
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Really? Try running OS X on a non-intel or with something other than a broadcom wireless card. it will shit all over itself.
To run os x on the aspire one, you have to swap the wireless card, the touchpad drivers are a pain and sleep doesn't always work.
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OS X doesn't even support Apple's own floppy drives.
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support
patches that could break things
legal issues should apple decide it is worth the trouble (and let me restate, it doesn't have to be illegal for this to come up)
those are what I can think of off the top of my head.
hardware lock in like that is illegal in some area (Score:2)
hardware lock in like that is illegal in some areas even in the us the DMCA says that you can hack your iphone to put it on a other network.
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I don't understand why the word illegal keeps coming up. I didn't say it was illegal, I just wouldn't characterize as running software on unsupported hardware as "win".
Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:5, Insightful)
Some of us don't care? :)
Seriously, if I pay Apple for a copy of Leopard, I'll damn well use it wherever I please - with the full understanding that it is unsupported.
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That's fine - I just wouldn't call running unsupported software that may or may not work with your hardware "win". I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, I just wouldn't characterize it as the best alternative - as the OP seemed to do.
Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:5, Informative)
I tried one of the win7 betas but gave up quickly because I could find no working network driver for my onboard NIC. I installed the new RC on Thursday and the OS is an absolute dream. It feels light years ahead of everything I've ever used, and the streamlined interface has forced me to re-evaluate my insistence on turning off new features to make it work more like win95. You should give it another shake - my compatibility issues have been very minimal.
As for your comment about Linux replacing Windows when the application support is there, I think it's going to take more than that. Windows' sleek UI and excellent vendor driver support save the user time worth more than the entry price over its lifespan, plus Microsoft offers tech support for its products. With Linux it's inevitable that an end user will be forced to do something at the commandline, and realistically that's a huge time sink or maybe a deal breaker for the average user. This is just my opinion but Linux just feels like it is eternally playing catch-up, and by the time they're 60% of the way there Windows will have jumped forward to an entirely new era. Linux gets better every single month but it's never been on par in terms of the holistic computing experience - drivers, software, productivity, and even freeware are all in better shape on Windows, so that's why I've stuck with it despite trying many new Linux distros from time to time.
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I would not agree to that. Having been on Ubuntu as my primary desktop for 9 months now, I can say that there are no reasons for loosing any time. Maybe you should remove those critic's goggles and approach Linux with a more open mind. Because your commentary stinks of prejudice.
The only item that keeps me coming back to windows are some of the applications.
In any case most of thing
Asus Eee and Ubuntu Netbook Remix FTW (Score:3, Informative)
I tried one of the Windows betas, but I gave up because it was buggy. I installed the new Ubuntu RC, and it was an absolute dream. It felt light years ahead of any Windows I had ever used.
As for your comment about Windows replacing Linux when the software support is there, I think it's going to take more than that. Ubuntu's slick UI and unparalleled driver support save the user time worth more than the entry price over it's lifespan. Oh wait. It's free. Double win.
Want a terminal emulator (for programming r
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The average user has so many problems on Windows that there are an entire industries dedicated to fixing their problems.
The Windows UI is crap. The everything and the kitchen sink program listing is awful. Most of the admin utilities are hideous and about as unintuitive as they come.
If Windows was even marginally as "easy to use" as is claimed, then my name would not be in the mental rolodex of everyone I know where I am listed under "can fix my computer".
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I don't think Linux distributions are a different era, they're a completely new paradigm and Linux is a different 'holistic computing experience' from Windows or Macintosh. I've used Linux at home for at least 10 yea
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So every company and organization copies from each other, it's not just linux doing it.
You're absolutely right. But (and I could be wrong), I don't think that's what the GP was referring to. The reason I say this, is I feel the same way.
I have tried a number of Linux distributions, and I have even really liked some of them (Gentoo was my favorite - used it for well over a year), but I always keep coming back to Windows. Why? I can't really describe it. I know Linux is powerful. I know Linux allows complete customization. And, the Linux community has been pretty awesome (again, Gentoo w
Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:4, Informative)
Sorry but have you tried Windows 7 yet? There is much more going for it than translucency. The UI actually helps me do tasks more quickly. "Sleek" doesn't only refer to cosmetic aspects - it also describes the ease with which you can perform tasks by removing intermediate steps.
When you copy files the taskbar thumbnail shows a progress bar. You can search from the Start button for any program, email, or document, and all without touching the mouse. When you're managing files you can drag 2 windows to either side of the screen to stack them horizontally, keeping each window fully in view, and when you're done you can move them away from the edge and they return to their previous size. You can pin document shortcuts to program icons so that you can right-click the program to directly jump to that document with that app, instead of having to open the app and browse to the desired document. You can repurpose the "shut down" button on the Start Menu to restart, hibernate, sleep, or whatever you want.
I could go on and on (just ask me if you want more examples - I've been playing with the OS all weekend). I loved Vista but Win7 makes it feel like an old clunker. It's a very user task-minded UI design, and it doesn't take a Microsoft salesman to see this.
Re:Dell Mini 9 + OSX = win (Score:4, Informative)
One of the major issues with the typical package manager is information overload. It's just way too much stuff, and there's no way for someone to easily compare two apps that do the same thing. No screenshots, no user reviews, nothing but a typically terse description of what the app is supposed to do (which may not even be what it really does).
Unless you like installing apps and playing around with them, you're stuck going out to freshmeat or something similar to read more detailed descriptions of thigns, but then you're in the same boat as the typical windows users that goes to download.com or similar. In other words, the information overload combined with the lack of detailed information to make judgements with make the typical package manager very difficult to use for most people.
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Some package managers do have a star system whi
Dell Mini 9 with Ubuntu (Score:4, Informative)
Dell won't sell me the Mini 9 without a Windows license
In what country? In the United States, three out of four pictured Dell Inspiron Mini 9 configurations have a "Customize with Ubuntu" button [dell.com].
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Re:Browser is the OS (Score:4, Informative)
a browser written in assembly and a SQLite database
FAIL
Let's see your browser written in Assembly with Java and Flash 10 support.
What you want is called Damn Small Linux. With a little hacking and whacking you could do the sqlite thing but it just stuffs things into flat files IIRC. There are others as well but I've found it to have a good balance between size and functionality. It has a lot more than the browser, but once you have the kernel, X, the browser, and the JRE you might as well have some other stuff.
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Maybe it sounds a bit trollish, but Windows is in reality a 'browser OS'. The CMD prompt really isn't a DOS prompt or at least not in its 'out-of-the-box' form. (Desktop abstractions on any system are just browsers, but at least one can go 'under the hood' in a fairly straight-forward manner on Unix-like systems.)
The previous author appears to want a stand-alone browser that requires no OS and is written in assembly. I'm sure it would run circles around any compiled browser -- even at 100MHz. ;) Unfortunate
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take a look at the crunchpad. It hasn't been released yetbut it will be a tablet and a modified Linux that boots into a browser only. No shells just a browser.
Personally I can't wait. No bqckground apps means decent betterylife.
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The article says it is Windows 7 RC1, which I believe is still only available in one version - which means it isn't whatever will be the 'lite' version. As for the numbers I don't know but I wouldn't think someone has them. But I doubt the 3 app limit is in play.
Re:Ok, but what about memory? (Score:5, Insightful)
What are the minimum memory requirements, and how much of that will be eaten by the OS itself?
Both Vista and 7 strive to consume as much memory as possible to precache commonly loaded executables. This cuts down on execution time and helps minimize disk access to a small extent. It's a smart use of resources, and it flushes RAM as required for games and such. Why buy RAM just to keep it unallocated, right?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I/O is precious. As a user of nLite, I've seen first-hand what disabling prefetching, auto-defrag, and thumbnails can do. Folders open quicker in explorer, games start faster, and Firefox does too.
Why buy RAM and keep it unallocated?
Because the Windows security model requires that memory pages be zero'd out before being used. I wonder how long it'd take to zero out 400MB and allocate it to other processes? 10ms? 20ms? 150ms?
There is a delay. It's not as bad as java garbage collection, but it still has to be
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yes, but if caching stuff to RAM impedes running applications, it defeats the purpose it began with.
It doesn't do that. It caches things when its idle, and it takes no time at all to flush pages of memory that don't need to be written to disk if something running needs the memory, so why bring it up?
It does however show that its using a lot of RAM so twits looking at total ram allocated and then running around squawking about how high it is aren't contributing anything to the discussion.
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Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
So its Shareware then. Nothing wrong with that and why shouldn't they get paid if you like it enough to keep using it?
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Or, it's an RC version, which is an unfinished product, has bugs and won't receive any security updates.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not a production software and it's not freeware.
It's an unfinished piece of code that's released by MS to enthusiasts who want to try it out and participate in ironing out problems and bugs that remain in it. We all know that they won't completely succeed, but still...
In any case MS is very upfront with how long the RC will function and what will happen when the TESTING period expires.
People who have any other expectations from this code are probably not paying too much attention.
Re: (Score:2)
13 months is a pretty generous fuse on a time bomb. How many other commercial products let you use it free for a day, never mind a year?
Re:But (Score:5, Insightful)
Nonsense. Nothing can force you to buy it; you could always go back to your previous OS. This is like saying at the end of a test drive, you're "forced" to buy the car. Only if you want to keep using the new car!
Re:Windows has ESP? (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a really bad example. With Windows Vista and Windows 7 I *DO* have my desktop in 15 seconds. I've never had that with any previous version of Windows. Much of the "pre-loading" is actually done post boot. MS have even moved many services that don't need to be ready straight away (eg Defender) to the new "Delayed Start" setting (see services.msc) so they load after your desktop is already ready.
Vista and Windows 7 use a lot of RAM for caching so that your computer is faster. It's not using more RAM just to annoy you. After all, you PAID for that RAM, so why not actually use it to speed up your system? If an application needs lots of RAM and you're running short on physical RAM, it will free up that RAM and make it available for use by other applications automatically so you haven't lost anything.
If you're that bothered - just stick with Windows 98 which doesn't do any of this stuff.
Re:Windows has ESP? (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, which I find annoying. As soon as I have my desktop up I want to open my usual host of applications, and I'm stuck waiting forever for them because the system is thrashing about trying to load a bunch of other crap Windows thinks I might possibly want to load at some unspecified point in the future.
Besides, I have no idea what criteria Windows uses to determine what my "likely" programs are, but if it's even remotely like the criteria it uses to display "Often Used" and "Rarely Used" in the Add/Remove Programs applet, I have zero faith in it whatsoever.
I agree with the parent poster. Windows should focus on being stable, not trying to predict what I might want to do, because it's never been good at that and the performance benefits are dubious at best and counterproductive at worst.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Besides, I have no idea what criteria Windows uses to determine what my "likely" programs are, but if it's even remotely like the criteria it uses to display "Often Used" and "Rarely Used" in the Add/Remove Programs applet, I have zero faith in it whatsoever.
Here's good evidence that you don't know you're talking about. Win7 (and even Vista for that matter) doesn't display any data about how often it thinks you use a program.
Right, which I find annoying. As soon as I have my desktop up I want to open my usual host of applications, and I'm stuck waiting forever for them because the system is thrashing about trying to load a bunch of other crap Windows thinks I might possibly want to load at some unspecified point in the future.
Perhaps you should try installing Win7 and seeing what happens before drawing your conclusions. Based on your previous comment, you haven't even tried.
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What good is your RAM if you keep it empty? Wouldn't it be better for your OS to learn what tasks you do frequently and make those tasks more convenient for you to do? Yes, you might answer this question differently than others, but I think the majority would be willing to sacrifice some seconds at boot in order to save them later.
Here's an analogy for you. Televisions don't really turn off - they just go into a low power state so that they can be more responsive when you turn them on. Why should your T
Re:Windows has ESP? (Score:4, Insightful)
The other thing which would bother me is to see my hard drive cranking through bits when I haven't asked it to do anything. When I see that happening on my machine, I immediately open my activity monitor to check on all my processes. Again, this can be alleviated with user notifications and education, but it sounds like Microsoft failed to do that.
I think the meat of the issue is that people want to be in control of their machines. Even at the expense of wasted resources. If Microsoft can educate as well as provide a great service, then there is no issue. Alas, it appears that they failed in that regard.