Windows 7 Anti-Piracy Plans 403
Slatterz writes "Microsoft has announced that the forthcoming Windows 7 operating system will contain a number of piracy 'tweaks' it says are designed to protect the interests of customers. Under the new regime users will be expected to validate their software in a much more precise way than before. Other Microsoft operating systems and anti-piracy measures, including Windows Genuine Advantage, allowed users to delay 'activation,' but Windows 7 will make it harder to ignore repeated messages. According to Joe Williams, general manager for Worldwide Genuine Windows at Microsoft, counterfeit software 'delivers a poor experience and impacts customer satisfaction with our products, particularly if users do not know that their software is non-genuine.' Williams gave the example of one piracy exploit that caused more than a million reported system crashes on machines running non-genuine Windows Vista before Microsoft was able to resolve it."
I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Funny)
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Interesting)
The sad thing is that just yesterday [slashdot.org] I was praising Windows 7 for being at least a fairly reasonable improvement over Vista.
In a rather ironic twist, anti-piracy measures like this are the only thing that would stop me from buying it. Given Williams' comments, this may be the fastest I've changed my mind on a potential (future) purchase.
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Insightful)
So they can halve their user-share.
... among people who understand what is happening, who are a small minority. The average person does not get it. All he knows is that "it doesn't work", and pay someone to "fix it", or simply buy a new computer. These people also are only vaguely aware that there is any other option than Windows (I actually originally wrote "any other option for an OS than Windows", but remembered that the average person does not really know what an OS is) and therefore a difficult time will not push people to other OSs.
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Funny)
My aunt is of the "Buy new computer when kids fuck up OS by downloading any random shit they come across" mentality.
I don't mind. I get a reasonably-new computer every year to cannibalize for parts out of it.
I wish she'd just let me fix it so she could buy a much nicer computer for them to really break something in every two years for better parts...
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Interesting)
Congrats, you fail at humor.
I fix her computer every time I get a chance to (She's two hours away, I can't just pop over and fix it every other evening), and try to educate her high school age children what NOT to do on the internet.
Her husband doesn't trust anyone without a company name on the side of their truck to do anything, so if he comes in while I'm working on it, I have to pretend to just be surfing the internet, or else I'm the one to blame for breaking it, despite it usually going on for a week or two that it's bogged down with virii, or a driver disappeared, or whatever new problem they've caused it to develop.
Occasionally, I go over to fix the latest problem, and I get there and I'm told "Oh... nevermind, we just went out and bought another computer. Do you want the old one?" so I take it, because otherwise it'll just sit in their basement until it goes out to the curb on trash day.
This is a process that has repeated since, oh, 2003 or so. At this point, it's a cycle of defeat. There's nothing more I can do.
I schedule antivirus scans for whenever I think they'll have the computer on, they just cancel it because it makes their computer slower (They never buy decent computers, and I'm clearly not an expert because I don't have a sign on my vehicle, so I don't get consulted... despite the fact that I BUILD COMPUTERS FOR A LIVING.) or if I set it to run at boot, they cancel it because they want online >>>>>>NOW not when it finishes, and they turn it off as soon as they're done with it.
I thought I had taught them how to run it on their own, but every time I ask them to demonstrate what I taught them the last time I was there, they can't even recall what program it was I installed. Sometimes, they've uninstalled it.
Their latest issue, they had over 40,000 infections. I told them it was time to just wipe the hard drive and start fresh, but they wouldn't have it, so I started up the antivirus program in safe mode and told them not to touch it. I even stayed the night so I could monitor it periodically.
I get up in the middle of the night and what do I find? One of the kids on the computer, playing a game.
I ask what happened to the scan, since I KNEW it was nowhere near done... "Oh, I got bored waiting."
Pardon my not growing, though. I guess I'll have to try better next time. Maybe install a cattle prod, or hell, try beating them.
(And no, I can't just lock down their accounts, because it's not my computer and the kids would throw a bitchfit. I tried it once. They won't accept Linux of any sort either, but it's understandable because one of them is a Sims2 junkie, and from what I've seen WINE doesn't get along with it... not that SHE knows that, but eh.)
So, do YOU have any brilliant suggestions that won't end up with me being labeled the antichrist of IT, or were you just coming in with a "DAMN GREEDY KIDS!" comment? They're using XP Home.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Plug the live wire from the mains to the ON/OFF switch. They they will lose the habit of playing with it.
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Another thing I forgot to mention a few comments ago - The reason I have to stop doing whatever I'm doing when my uncle comes in is because he throws huge fits whenever something isn't fixed immediately, or if he immediately breaks it after (Or, on occasion, if something just plain isn't fixable.) and tends to decide that whoever's responsible is no longer welcome in the house, and my aunt doesn't want that turned on me.
Especially since he has a tendency to get virii on his computer doing pretty much the ex
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Interesting)
For the average person who got the OS with the computer, activation problems means that Microsoft has NOT gotten Anti-Piracy to work right. Legitimate users should not be bothered by the system.
If that happens anyway, I guess it will happen across the board, for people with and without solid computer knowledge. Most of them (your "average person") might believe it was their own mistake, but a few will say goodbye to Windows. But overall, I expect the numbers to be small in this category.
The interesting question is "what happens with the freeloaders if they cannot pirate Windows 7". Lets assume Microsoft comes up with something really hard to crack. It follows that
1) some will pay up for Windows 7
2) many will install XP instead (plenty of hacked versions and pirated Corporate Editions in the wild)
3) some will say goodbye to Windows as above.
1) is what Microsoft obviously wants.
2) is sort of what happens right now, but for other reasons (People prefer XP over Vista). Microsoft won't like it, but it will not make their situation worse.
3) hurts Microsoft's market share, other OS will gain some more visibility.
My guess:
Microsoft gains some money from 1) but 3) will hurt them more in the long run.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure. Half of the pirates don't even want it for free. Does not necessarily means the copy protection is better. ;-)
Re:I Hope They Get Anti-Piracy to Work This Time (Score:5, Insightful)
If you could get a 5 licence Windows 7 (or XP) licence pack for $100 more than a single licence, it wouldn't be so unpalatable.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Yes, but not from microsoft.
What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Insightful)
"counterfeit software delivers a poor experience and impacts customer satisfaction with our products, particularly if users do not know that their software is non-genuine."
Since it's byte for byte identical whether it's "counterfeit" or "real", what does that say about Windows 7?
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Interesting)
Genuine windows was something dreamt up in the marketing department, but the theory is that "counterfeit" copies are virus ridden.
Basically this just isn't the case, and VLK editions are much nicer to use because of the lack of activation.
Windows XP 64 was especially awesome because it escaped Microsoft's focus on crappy anti-piracy bloat such as WGA, since it wasn't such a main stream OS. I've never had compatibility problems, so for me, pirated XP64 is the best MS OS ever.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:4, Interesting)
Genuine windows was something dreamt up in the marketing department, but the theory is that "counterfeit" copies are virus ridden.
Actually, they would be because Microsoft will block hacked ones from getting updates to fix glaring security holes. So when you look at the viral load of the interweb, just remember that you're looking at a lot of unlicensed copies of Windows that have been turned into botnet zombies. Microsoft's anti-"piracy" efforts make the world a less secure place.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Informative)
You're wrong. Non-genuine versions of Windows will still receive critical updates (including security updates).
However: Only through Auto-Update - you will not be able to access the Windows Update website and select the fixes you want to install.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage [wikipedia.org]
You test it out if you don't feel like trusting Wikipedia on this. :)
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Informative)
See the page: http://www.microsoft.com/genuine/downloads/FAQ.aspx [microsoft.com]
Look for the question: Do security updates require validation?
When Windows is detected as non-genuine, the automatic updates client will only download Critical Updates. It is not possible to use the Windows Update or Microsoft Update sites in that case. However, the individual patch downloads are still available though Microsoft's download site. When downloading individual patches, you can download any Critical Update patches, but validation is required to download other patches. For non-patch downloads validation is usually not required, but it varies.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:4, Interesting)
Hold back the non-essential downloads for pirated copies, but let them have the security fixes.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
There are plenty of preinfected torrents on Piratebay and other public trackers.
Personally, i have no issue with people using Windows without paying for it, even though i do.
However, when you start charging money for loading illegal versions of Windows on other peoples computers, that crosses a line - these people are also what Microsoft is mostly after.
This happens more often than you think, i've seen it more than once, even from companies that seem reputable on the outside.
And don't get me started on comp
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Insightful)
Pirate copies don't have to deal with activation, entering of license codes etc...
There are also pirated distributions, which come pre bundled with updates, more drivers and third party apps... The pirate copies are just better than the genuine ones.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Interesting)
There are pirated versions of XP that will update just like any legal version.
I know lots of people who bought every single version of Windows until they rolled out WGA. Full price.
Then, when WGA was forced on them, they decided to find alternate means of obtaining Windows. None of their machines have been infected and they are all up-to-date with patches.
Re:What does that say about the product? (Score:5, Funny)
"You see, when counterfeit software shows up in the hands of some unlucky customer, Big Louie, an associate of ours, shows up as well. After a spirited discussion of the matter with said customer, Big Louie tells us that the customer does not approve of the resulting experience counterfeit software brings and much prefers the experience of genuine software, wherein Big Louie does not intervene."
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
"Essentially, Microsoft has put a killswitch/disabling tool in Windows 7 that can shut down/cripple versions of 7 that are pirated. Since this is marketing, we're going to couch the discussion in a way that sounds like we are doing this for the customer, so they know that the overpriced software called Windows 7 wasn't a copied version from a shady supplier."
The only reason this story is on
That's not true (Score:2, Insightful)
Usually the pirates disable those incessant messages begging you to register. Which is the poorer experience?
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
They do.
Check MSDN or TechNet.
The interests of customers? (Score:5, Informative)
it says are designed to protect the interests of customers
Hahahaha!
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Even for MS, this is surely shoveling the BS to astonishing new heights.
I think they'd be better off just not commenting on it at all, rather than trying to completely BS us. At these levels all it's doing is insulting our intelligence. Really, who wouldn't cough up their coffee if they had someone trying to say that to them with a straight face?
Re:The interests of customers? (Score:4, Insightful)
eh, I like this part. " Williams gave the example of one piracy exploit that caused more than a million reported system crashes on machines running non-genuine Windows Vista before Microsoft was able to resolve it." versus the "WGA was broken and so only the people who had non-genuine copies were able to use Vista".
Re:The interests of customers? (Score:5, Insightful)
" Williams gave the example of one piracy exploit that caused more than a million reported system crashes on machines running non-genuine Windows Vista before Microsoft was able to resolve it."
Versus the two million crashes on machines running genuine Windows Vista?
but it's now WAT instead of WGA (Score:5, Informative)
Lot's of fun I think - but since Microsoft is changing the name from WGA to WAT you should trust them to put the kill switch in your computer [computerworld.com]
I'm so happy I can do all my computing without having anyone's kill switch in my computer... sorry was I gloating?
Re:but it's now WAT instead of WGA (Score:5, Funny)
Soon they will rename it as "*The* Windows Activation Technologies", at which point it will be known as TWAT.
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According to Joe Williams, general manager for Worldwide Genuine Windows at Microsoft, Windows "delivers a poor experience and impacts customer satisfaction with our products..."
There, fixed that for ya.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, especially since it's followed by, "Other Microsoft operating systems and anti-piracy measures, including Windows Genuine Advantage, allowed users to delay 'activation', but Windows 7 will make it harder to ignore repeated messages."
So they make it harder for customers to activate when it's convenient for the customer, and makes it harder to ignore the nagging to activate. And the purpose of that is to protect the interests of customers?
The name "Windows Genuine Advantage" has always seemed like a
It's true! (Score:2)
Microsoft executives are "customers". They buy things!
You didn't think they meant "Microsoft's customers", did you? ;)
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Microsoft is not public (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
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It's just a troll from the Complaint Generator.
http://www.pakin.org/complaint/ [pakin.org]
Really? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
One of the biggest sources of piracy Microsoft is trying to clamp down on is the local "Joe's Computer Hut"-type shop. Joe puts together motherboards and chips and sells $300 computers, including Windows. But what Joe's customers don't realize is that Joe is installing pirated copies.
And I used to work for one. I took a job in Florida working for a company (AVC Concepts of Bradenton, Florida. Now defunct.) that did just that. The owner sold computers with pirated copies of Windows XP installed. Around this time in 2006, Microsoft started to distribute WGA. Needless to say, we got calls from customers who's machines were flagged running pirated copies. It was my job to pick these machines up, bring them back to the shop and replace the pirated OS with a legitimate copy.
My boss instructed me to lie to customers and tell them that they had a valid copy, but that Microsoft's own Windows Genuine Advantage was fouled up. Blame Microsoft. It's an easy excuse that customers easily accept without much fuss.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The one thing MS have done really well, is convince people that computers are inherently unreliable devices that just never work properly...
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, but here's the question: How does that help Microsoft's customers? It doesn't help the customer who bought a computer from Joe, because their computer now has stopped working until the customer pays more money. On the other hand, that customer isn't even Microsoft's customer, because that person hasn't bought anything from Microsoft.
As a Microsoft customer, I don't see how hurting Joe or hurting Joe's customer can help me at all. I can tell you that I've had difficulties in the past with Microsoft's activation and WGA, so I know that these things can hurt customers.
So that leaves two possibilities, as far as I can tell:
Although I have purchased many of copies of Windows and Office through Microsoft's eOpen program, they do not consider me a "customer".
Either way, this inclines me even further to look for an alternative vendor. I don't like when vendors lie to me, and when the vendor says, "The customer is always right," I want that to be me. When I'm giving someone lots of money, I want them to be trying to keep me happy, and to be reluctant to screw me over.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Funny)
Except that for XP, we use VLKs which never get flagged by WGA because they belong to organizations far bigger than us from whom MS will never revoke the keys. Never Ever.
- Joe
Re: (Score:2)
I think that the anti-piracy stuff for folks that don't know its pirated is more common in non-US and western European locales where you can buy impressively authentic looking XP/Vista on the street for $5.
No one who gets XP/Vista "from a friend" thinks its legit, unless they're very clueless.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Given how hard it is to compete with Dell and HP, I can see smaller system builders wanting to give in to the temptation of not paying the microsoft tax and using the savings to put a pirate version of Windows to make a more attractive price point. Of course, they could put a free OS on it but that would only further enforce that they sell machines that "aren't like the big boy's".
LGA (Score:4, Funny)
A lot more of those shops will switch to GNU/Linux when they realise that they can install Linux Genuine Advantage [linuxgenui...antage.org] instead.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, I've seen it quite a bit. Usually what happens is a non-techy person will ask the neighbor kid to fix their computer. The neighbor kid puts on a pirated version because of laziness, anti-MS feelings, lack of a product key, etc. The non-techy person doesn't know the difference and never does manual updates, so they don't find out until WGA tells them.
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
The neighbor kid puts on a pirated version because of laziness, anti-MS feelings, lack of a product key, etc.
Or that finding the original media and product key for the box in question is either impossible (no media came with the box - that's what the hidden partition is for) or just nearly impossible ("maybe it's with all those manuals and boxes in the attic"). Dealing with a consumer Windows box is a PITA.
Re:Really? (Score:4, Insightful)
You know what? As long as that machine I'm fixing has a sticker on it for a legitimate Windows license key of the same type as the one I'm installing -- I don't fricking care. They got their money. One machine, one license, the transaction is done.
Microsoft already makes it enough of a nightmare for non-technical users to reinstall their system from scratch, because it is a rarity these days for OEMs to provide proper Windows install disks. I'm not jumping through hoops on my volunteer time just to reassure Microsoft that everything is legitimate. I look at the sticker on the machine, which Microsoft tells me is supposed to be an indication of a legitimate license, and do the task as efficiently as possible. On the off chance that it might not be legitimate, I'm not wasting my time on the phone to verify a license they already sold with the machine and presumably had registered once before. There's nothing in it for me or the person I'm trying to help, unless you count wasted time.
If they want to pay me for the information or discount Windows if I provide the information so they can track piracy, great. Then I might do it. But the idea that WGA and license activation is in the customer's interest is a joke.
Re: (Score:2)
Well I think that what Microsoft has tried to claim is that WGA is supposed to protect people from installing pirated versions that might have malware or other malicious hacks pre-installed. It is possible to slipstream hacks into an install DVD and then try to sell it as a real copy. So theoretically WGA could help customers detect that.
On the other hand, I don't particularly see that as the effect of WGA. For one thing, if someone is clever enough to engage in that sort of behavior, it wouldn't surpri
Re: (Score:2)
Or, people like me that have a valid license yet "Windows Genuine Advantage" reports is illegal. That's a great customer experience right there... especially since nowhere does it let me dispute or have it fixed... just a link to buy software I already bought. (Win XP Pro SP2)
Not FUD!! (Score:4, Interesting)
No, that's not FUD.
This very thing happened to me, and MS' response after talking to many people over an hour and a half was:'you need to buy another XP Pro license at around $130 USD', IIRC. I even offered to send them the cd and case with the hologram and my receipt(original, not the copy I was going to keep for myself) to no avail.
I was told my only option was to purchase the new license. I replied that 'no, that is not my only option, as I have this Linux install cd in my hand as we are speaking, and am dropping all MS product use.' And so I have ran some GNU/Linux distro since then.
Check my posting history on this subject...at the time I ranted probably a little/lot too much about this. I was not doing anything 'shady/dodgey' at the time to bring this on myself.
MS admitted it 'could' be due to all of the 'keygen' stuff out there, but my copy became non-legit through no action/inaction/fault of my own. I bought those cd's from a 'reputable', nationwide retailer-with intact packaging, etc..- in good faith with cash money, and that was not 'good enough' for MS.
Not FUD. Period.
Now I have access via my job to two copies of XP Pro*, and two copies of both Vista Enterprise and Office 2007, all of which will suffer bit rot before I think about using them.
They have 'lost userbase/marketshare' of three PC's here on my home network, as I wiped Windows off and installed Linux.(all three were legit, 100% compliant with MS Windows terms)
I repeat, that was not FUD!
*to be pedantic, it's actually six copies total of XP. I get two each copies of: XP Pro(no Service packs), XP Pro SP2, and XP Pro SP2 Upgrade Version.
And when Fallout 3 came out, I did set up an XP partition with one license for XP Pro SP2, but it only lasted about three months until I got tired of 'the MS Way', wiped it, and installed Linux Mint in it's place.
Linux has me too spoiled by now to go back to Windows, even just to play games.
Hasn't MS learned *anything* over the years? (Score:5, Funny)
It's amazing that after all this time Microsoft still believe they can win the fight against piracy. As long as there is someone that builds anti-piracy measures in there will be people willing to hack around and take them out. Equal and opposite forces. Look at the iPhone for example; it took very little time for people with no previous knowledge of the device to have a working solution for jailbreaking the phone and installing pirated apps. MS needs to come up with viable solutions instead of crippling the user's experience.
Oh, shit, that's right, we're talking about Microsoft. Never mind; carry on with Ubuntu installs. ;-)
=Smidge=
Re:Hasn't MS learned *anything* over the years? (Score:5, Interesting)
As a user of an OS that is actually zero cost, I would love to see MS actually enforce piracy protections effectively. That is one way to grow linux use. Once people figure out they can no longer "borrow" their buddies disk, they will start looking for alternatives.. and really, you don't even have to be 100% successful. If you make the process difficult enough, people will give up!
Re:Hasn't MS learned *anything* over the years? (Score:5, Funny)
If you make the process difficult enough, people will give up!
Sounds like the first few times I tried to switch to Linux.
*ducks*
Re: (Score:2)
It's amazing that after all this time Microsoft still believe they can win the fight against piracy.
I'm not so sure this is actually about "piracy". What if this is about maintaining a perception? We currently have a lot of industry using commodity OSes (Linux, *BSD... maybe even Solaris). It isn't too far off when we'll look at the OS as a commodity layer. That doesn't bode well with Microsoft's (current) business model.
At one point, copyright infringement of Windows wasn't a big deal as it just further enforced Windows adoption. However, if you're trying to battle the perception that the OS is a co
Re: (Score:2)
Look at the iPhone for example; it took very little time for people with no previous knowledge of the device to have a working solution for jailbreaking the phone and installing pirated apps.
They weren't pirated apps. They were simply not blessed by Apple.
most people won't care (Score:5, Interesting)
because they buy their copy of windows with a new PC from Dell or HP and it's tied to the hardware and probably won't need to be activated.
for the DIY it probably makes sense to buy a technet sub and get "free" Ultimate copies of the OS. my msdn license keys for Vista say up to 10 activations and you can give it out to other people for "marketing purposes"
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my msdn license keys for Vista say up to 10 activations and you can give it out to other people for "marketing purposes"
Does it actually say that? Last time I checked out getting an MSDN subscription for free OS and goodies I saw the part about "non-production evaluation purposes only" and figured it's not worth the potential risk opening myself to surprise audits, especially after signing up for a subscription with my real name and address.
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That is the primary reason why Genuine Disadvantage is so pointless. Almost everyone who owns a PC has licensed copy of Windows. People are not going crazy upgrading their old PC to Vista or Windows 7 as that would be Stupid because it will run so slow on these systems. So piracy of Windows is really low. Office on the other hand is a different story. But GA It gets in your way if you want to Virtualize your OS (Or worse Virtualize a boot partition so you can swap them around), or upgrade your Computer to
+5, Funny to Microsoft (Score:5, Insightful)
...it says are designed to protect the interests of customers. Under the new regime users will be expected to validate their software in a much more precise way than before... Windows 7 will make it harder to ignore repeated messages.
That's it - I cannot top that - I can't even try.
This is just precious... (Score:5, Interesting)
Any code made by someone can be broken by someone.
Some consumers have already realized they don't have to put up with this bullshit, I hope more do every day.
Fine (Score:5, Insightful)
As long as this doesn't victimize legitimate users. That's where the whole anti-piracy thing usually breaks down.
What about all of the false-negatives?!? (Score:5, Interesting)
"Williams gave the example of one piracy exploit that caused more than a million reported system crashes on machines running non-genuine Windows Vista before Microsoft was able to resolve it."
WTF do you care what happens to people running pirated copies? Why don't you tell us about all of the times WGA has screwed up legitimate installations with false positives? I've actually had to "hack" a few falsely tagged installations so they'd run until I had time to go through the hassle of getting my system re-legitimized. And I don't maintain that many windows systems. I can only imagine the shitstorm that could be caused in a company with thousands of identical systems that, through some quirk, got nailed with a false positive from WGA.
WGA does absolutely nothing to protect legitimate consumers. Nothing. The only thing WGA can do to any specific installation is disable it. It can't ENHANCE or IMPROVE the system in any way.
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This isn't about people who intentionall use pirated copies. This is about Bulk, whoelsale pirate copies, where the user has paid someone full price for what they think is a legitimate copy of windows.
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Do you honestly believe that? WGA has NO way of stopping BULK wholesale pirate copies if the wholesaler knows what he is doing.
Keep dreaming in your little world because the day that MS gets it right is the day that they will loose market share. You can get complete systems cheaper than you can get a retail XP CD. either they will fill landfills or someone like myself will load an alternate OS.
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WGA is also Spyware, it reports back to Microsoft the list of software applications you installed on your computer and other things.
How about selling licenses at a reasonable cost? (Score:5, Insightful)
Can you really blame people for piracy when you set the retail price of a license at $100-$200 and the big OEM price at $10-$50?
Pretty soon it'll be easier to get a windows license by buying a netbook and throwing the hardware away.
Re: (Score:2)
Duh. Why do you think they came up with Starter Edition for netbooks?
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
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OEM licenses aren't transferable, so technically you still would not have a legit license in Microsoft's eyes.
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Except that I believe Microsoft OEM licenses are not transferable. Crazy as it sounds, that Windows license isn't even yours to use as you please, even though you paid for it. It's lunacy.
Re:How about selling licenses at a reasonable cost (Score:5, Insightful)
"protect the interests of customers" (Score:5, Insightful)
Do what you have to to protect your bottom line, but do not bullshit like this. Customer interests would be equally served with an unobtrusive alert that would let them know that the software is probably counterfeit but not interfere with their work.
Although, I doubt it will really help MS financially. Everyone else is moving away from DRM - think of iTunes - and throughout the history of commercial software, most successful companies were the ones that stayed away from parallel port dongles, non-standard floppy formats or entering "word 6 on line 5 on page 15 of game manual". This included Microsoft until a few years back.
Besides most of their profit comes from OEMs and business users. Neither group is likely to use counterfeit software. On the other hand, they will be royally pissed off if this affects even 0.01% of their users.
Re:"protect the interests of customers" (Score:5, Insightful)
throughout the history of commercial software, most successful companies were the ones that stayed away from parallel port dongles, non-standard floppy formats or entering "word 6 on line 5 on page 15 of game manual".
And guess what all major video game consoles use? Non-standard disc formats.
Why? (Score:2)
Why try to stop the piracy?
They would be far better-served by selling the Home/Pro versions of the OS at $99 / $149 and allowing easy transport of licenses.
They only lose tons of money when trying to stop piracy.
I WOULD pay for it if it meant I could have a physical copy of the OS (on a PRESSED disc) and I didn't have to deal with activation and other such bullshit.
I would encourage others to "just buy it" if it meant I could easily wipe their Dell and install using their key/disc (seriously, supply custome
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I also would be much more willing to buy Windows at $100. I want to agree with you. I really do.
BUT, there's always going to be a group of people who will take advantage and try to get it for free. Microsoft no doubt knows that they're just flushing the money and losing the arms race, but I'm sure they see no other option. Their honest customers are stuck paying full price and most of the rest will never pay anyway.
It sucks all the way around.
Is he speaking English or New Speak? (Score:5, Insightful)
The words all make sense by themselves, but collectively it is like he is trying to redefine every word he uses.
> "Consumers face potential identity theft, system failures and unrecoverable data loss,"
That isn't a consequence of piracy. It may be the consequence of malware, spyware, worms, or viruses, but you can't blame piracy for any of that.
> "Customers want to know that they are using the genuine high-quality Microsoft product they paid for, and they want to know that their systems are more secure and that their software does not contain malicious code"
What about customers who want to use Microsoft products without paying for them at all. Not to defend them, but that is what we are talking about when we discuss piracy. If someone takes a "genuine" copy of Windows and disables your license validation code, what does that have to do with making their system more or less secure and what does it have to do with malicious code. If anything, a hacked copy of Windows may be more secure and less malicious because it isn't "phoning home" to Microsoft.
> "We see many cases of customers who wanted to buy genuine software and believed they did, only to find out later that they were victims of software piracy."
Wow. This one just made my head hurt. They are completely trying to redefine victim here. That's like calling a bank robber the victim of his crime because he stubbed his toe running out of the bank.
I guess I'm supposed to read all the above and think that Microsoft is acting benevolently to make sure no malicious code has been inserted into the operating system at install time. If that was really some sort of crisis that needed to be solved, they could simply ship install CDs with known signatures and provide a mechanism for checking those signature. Problem solved with no need for checking hardware configurations, issuing serial numbers, tracking activations, etc.
What a bunch of asshats.
0wned Windows Installs (Score:5, Interesting)
Believe it or not, there's actually something to say about ensuring Windows is "genuine" as such; and really this is new to Vista +...
I've seen a few Vista installs now where Windows was completely screwed (no laughing at the back) for no apparent reason, and more importantly would not update. On digging around a bit more, it turned out almost in every case they'd downloaded it off bittorrent/emule, burnt it to disc, and fired it up.
Thing is, Vista is more flexible than ever for OEMs and system builders to streamline their own stuff into the install process so this is a hackers dream; take most popular OS on the planet; "Customise" it with rootkit/trojan; release to downloaders via bittorent and tada...pre-rooted Windows for the pirating masses.
So that's why there is some value in knowing your Windows came from Microsoft direct (rather than some h4x0r)
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Yup, a lot of vista isos on the net are pre-rooted.
Poor experience? (Score:5, Interesting)
counterfeit software "delivers a poor experience and impacts customer satisfaction with our products
Obviously he hasn't tried Johnny's Ultimate version of XP. It's awesome! A great experience and it offers great satisfaction. MS should hire him.
important message (Score:2)
To Trash-Bin with the whole thing already!
Dear Microsoft (Score:2)
YOU SUCK! [andyousuck.com]
Seriously, does anyone REALLY this to work? All it will do is cut down on the absolutely MOST casual pirates and annoy legitimate customers. The tighter they make it, the more this is true. Determined individuals WILL ALWAYS find a way to circumvent their measures. ALWAYS.
I'm not likely to pirate an OS...I like being able to run it with all the updates and I'm happy knowing that my software is legit...but that's certainly not even a close consideration as to what most people are going to do.
Loo
New improved nagware (Score:2)
Our patented nagware is a guaranteed success because we say so, and believe us, if you don't say so, we'll know and pay you a visit to "educate" you. All of o
This will only increase the number of (Score:3, Informative)
false positives.
For example under Windows XP, if the Firewall blocked the WGA verification internet connection, your copy of XP got called "grayware" because it could not verify the genuineness of the XP install.
If you reformatted and reinstalled, sometimes you got activation problems anyway, requiring you to log on to your Passport account and activate the Windows that way, and then WGA still says you might not be legit.
With Microsoft forcing activation, it will only lead to more "false positives" in genuine Windows usage.
great pc sales will DROP (Score:2, Insightful)
let's all pirate (Score:4, Insightful)
You gotta love it (Score:3, Interesting)
Virtual machine detection for license enforcement (Score:5, Insightful)
As is somewhat well-known, Microsoft's license agreement says only the Ultimate, Business and possibly Home Premium editions are permitted to be run under a virtual machine. In Vista, they didn't enforce this technologically.
This might change in Windows 7. I found some assembly code in the Windows 7 beta kernel that was detecting whether it was running under a virtual machine. This code was in functions clearly related to license management. The beta version was Ultimate, so I don't think anyone noticed that VMs don't work...
uhh, wait a minute (Score:4, Insightful)
nope, that's not piracy, that's by design.
Anti-Piracy never works (Score:3, Informative)
Activation is a pain in the ass, always has been. The only result of this "stronger" activation will be more piracy, because the cracked version is liberated from this draconian bullshit.
It's true for games, it's even more true for Windows. If I have the option of installing my genuine, licenced copy and fuss with reactivation every time I upgrade (few months), or going with a cracked/VLK version that doesn't have that nagware, I'll go with the cracked one, because my time is actually worth something to me and I'm not about to waste an hour on the phone with Microsoft's 3rd-world scripted support staff to beg for permission to upgrade my hard disk.
Re:Official position (Score:4, Funny)
So what, you thought MS was a bunch of open source hippies all this time who were only being stopped from releasing the source of the entire OS for free by the tyrannical Bill Gates?
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I am hear all week, try the veal.
You mean "see" all week. And I hate veal. *throws a tomato* GET OFF THE STAGE!!!!