Microsoft Launches New "Get the Facts" Campaign 524
ko9 writes that Microsoft has re-launched its "'Get the facts' campaign, in an attempt to promote Internet Explorer 8. It contains a chart that compares IE8 to Firefox and Chrome. Needless to say, IE8 comes out as the clear winner, with MS suggesting it is the only browser to provide features like 'privacy,' 'security,' 'reliability.' It even claims to have Firefox beat in 'customizability.'"
I got the facts ... (Score:5, Funny)
Lies and Lying Liars. (Score:5, Insightful)
The story is, quite simply, that it is appallingly easy of companies to shamelessly and flagrantly lie, to produce the most obvious falsehoods, and for absolutely no one whatsoever to bother stating the obvious fact; that they are appalling liars.
It's not even deceptive wording, or qualified phrases we're talking about here. Most companies and organisations just come right out an lie nowadays. Some choice selections from the article. Note that the tick marks in the article next to browsers are replaced by stars here.
A lie.
A falsehood.
A barefaced, shameless, utterly false lie. For you see, there is no W3C CSS 2.1 test suite. There is a Pre-Alpha CSS 2.1 Test Suite [w3.org], but upon further investigation it can be seen that the IE team themselves have submitted at least 3221 of the 3708 test cases [msdn.com], or at least that was the case last August 18th.
Perhaps some would argue that these are merely exaggerations or omissions, not lies. I beg to differ. Taking these statements as truths would lead one to believe that IE has less exploits, less chance of exposing private data and a higher or equal chance of rendering web pages correctly that either Firefox or Chrome. All three conclusions are false. These are lies.
Some will believe them, but even sadder, more will not accept them as lies.
P.S.
My reply text is being squashed into a 25 character wide column to the right of a mass of grey. It would be great if Slashdot rendered properly these days.
P.P.S.
Perhaps I'll try it in IE8!
Re:Lies and Lying Liars. (Score:5, Informative)
My reply text is being squashed into a 25 character wide column to the right of a mass of grey. It would be great if Slashdot rendered properly these days.
It appears that this is due to a bug in the CSS which prevents proper line breaking in the grey line under the comment title ('by ObsessiveMathsFreak...'). I see this quite often, but can't work out why it happily line-wraps on some but doesn't on all. If you make your browser window wider, eventually you will get to the point where it all fits on one line and then the comment suddenly displays correctly.
MS business model: Take advantage of weaknesses (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft got as big as it is only because it was possible to take advantage of the ignorance of the average person about computers.
Re:Lies and Lying Liars. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Lies and Lying Liars. (Score:5, Insightful)
How about a compromise? ObsessiveMathsFreak can stop calling Microsoft liars on their "Get the Facts" campaign and we can all assume all of Microsoft's facts aren't facts until such time that they offer evidence to support their supposed facts. Until then, we can all complain about how Microsoft is wasting everyone's time.
Re:Lies and Lying Liars. (Score:4, Insightful)
I fundamentally disagree with this interpretation. In virtually every claim made on the article page, the statement is quantifiable and objective. On the matters of security, privacy, and web standards objective tests will show that the claims being made are false, and are indeed, lies.
Yet, it makes no difference. In a sense, we have become too accustomed, too inculcated, by the lies thrown at us every day by advertisements, newspapers, press releases and not-a-denial-denials that are throw at us every day by people who profess to be telling the truth. Indeed, it is a far rarer thing to hear a genuinely true claim from a corporation or organisation than it is to hear a lie or gross exaggeration. To obtain the truth, it is necessary to read between the lines and examine the distorted, yet objective, context and come to only a subjective conclusion. But this subjective conclusion can contain more truth than all the objective falsehoods.
Its easy for Microsoft and others to get away with this kind of thing because we live in a culture where such lies are not only permitted, but permitted to stand unopposed. With the increasing sophistication of marketers, PR departments and spin doctors of all kinds, it has become all but impossible for anyone to challenge these packs of lies. The only people who can, the news media, have consciously chosen not to. Indeed, the modern news media is at the forefront of the industry of disinformation, and indeed is often then instrument and chief instigator of its content.
In such an environment, ordinary people must either assume that every message they read is true, or every one is false. May have chosen the latter. A friend of mine recently expressed genuine surprise that a cheaper dishwasher powered he purchased gave inferior results. He assumed, as many do, that messages proclaiming higher quality in more expensive brands were simply lies, and that equal quality could be obtained with cheaper products. He assumed this because most of the time, they are lies.
Such cynicism in the general public explains why so many higher quality brands fail in the face of a glut of cheap, low quality produce from China and elsewhere. People assume that protestations of quality are a lie, and turn to the only metric they can objectively assess with certainty; Price. Western marketing is slowly killing its own products, one lie at a time.
If you live in a culture of lies, then anything subjective, anything at all, becomes totally suspect. "Quality of Goods", "Quality of Service", "Experience", "Loyalty", "Competence", "Leadership", "Trust". All become swamped in doubt. Only objective, bottom-line numbers can be trusted any more. Price, productivity, age, wages, profit/loss. And as companies begin to manipulate those [wikipedia.org], what are we going to be left with in the end?
Re:I got the facts ... (Score:4, Interesting)
This is pathetic and infuriating at the same time, which is common with MS propaganda. As I went over the list (as well as the mythbusting [microsoft.com] bit) I laughed in a "black humor" sort of way -- it reads like a parody, kind of like something you'd read on TheOnion.
Isn't it nice that as long as you keep things just ambiguous enough, you can use the word "FACT" in an ad to state just about anything. At some point, if the law doesn't intervene, they will start positioning Google as the "Dark Corporation that spies on you", and Apple as a religious cult. I'm pretty sure they could do that now and they'd be un-sue-able.
Re:I got the facts ... (Score:5, Interesting)
No, it's definitely about getting the facts. Just not all of the facts.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Or the right facts.
Re:I got the facts ... (Score:4, Insightful)
And not even the facts they present are right.
What's more worrying is that the people they provide this campaign to aren't the most technically competent people, but rather people in management positions that are liable to trust whatever they get sent to them, especially from Microsoft.
Like the Accelerators - I don't even want them. It's Clippy all over again!
As for developer tools - the visual studio tools doesn't help much, sometimes you need to analyze the end result in the web browser, and Firefox with Firebug will help a lot. And the source view in Firefox is a lot better since it's color-coded.
"but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8" - But not Adblock Plus, which is the one I REALLY like. There are some fixes allowing a limping adblock plugin in IE, but not completely. And I don't want a browser that is fully loaded with all potential customizations that's out there, I want to have it under control and not bloated!
Performance - what fact is that, they are just buzzing. Most of the performance issues we see are often the network itself or stupid servers. And IE is really crappy to inform the user of the transfer progress.
The privacy features - I can't say that I feel any privacy when using IE, I feel that I have the least privacy when using that browser since it is the most targeted browser and also the browser which allows me the least control.
And finally - they aren't comparing with Opera. Probably because they won't dare to do it!
Re:I got the facts ... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I got the facts ... (Score:5, Informative)
As for developer tools - the visual studio tools doesn't help much, sometimes you need to analyze the end result in the web browser, and Firefox with Firebug will help a lot. And the source view in Firefox is a lot better since it's color-coded.
This article is about IE8, which you do not appear to have used. The developer tools in IE8 are pretty decent, certainly far better than what comes with Mozilla Firefox by default. For starters it now also colour-codes the source code as well instead of just passing it out to notepad. I know they should have done this years ago, but we can at least recognise that they have finally done it.
I work on a very complicated, hosted web application and I have yet to find anything broken by IE8. In contrast IE7 broke a whole bunch of stuff so with this in mind I have been testing our application on IE8 since the first beta came out. Now that it has finally been released as stable I have installed it on a few of my machines and it seems to have some nice other features.
I really like the ability to highlight text then search Google for it using the right click menu. I know this is just robbed from Mozilla, buy they do say copying is the highest form of flattery.
I also like the ability to highlight text then see it translated into a different language in a little popup. Hopefully this is not patented so other browsers can now copy it but I am probably being overly optimistic here.
So all in all it is not a bad browser. On the other hand, this "Get the Facts" page did make me laugh as some of it is utter baloney. Suggesting IE8 is the only browser that offers you privacy seems to completely ignore Chrome and its incognito mode.
I also had to giggle at the performance bit since there is no way IE8 matches Chrome in real world Javascript performance. I have not benchmarked this, but in the AJAX applications I have to use on a daily basis Chrome seems more snappy and I always value how fast something feels over some theoretical benchmark any day.
And finally - they aren't comparing with Opera. Probably because they won't dare to do it!
Or they choose to not bother comparing with a browser that is not really a competitor in the desktop market. I know it has been around for years and has loads of great features and is probably more standards compliant and whatever else, but it has no market share on the desktop amongst non-geeks.
I have never once been asked by a client to ensure a site works in Opera. I keep it on my machine and test in it to be thorough. On the other hand I do get asked about Firefox a lot, Safari occasionally and Chrome once or twice. Obviously nobody would ask about IE since that is still the defacto web browser on the desktop.
Re:I got the facts ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Why on this or any other earth would you include developer tools in a browser by default?
Most of the people who use your browser will never, ever use these tools. Those who need them can download when. if the need them.
Extra crap pasted onto your browser just adds another potential exploit, and slows things down.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Fechez la vache!
It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Funny)
Sure, Firefox may win in sheer number of add-ons, but many of the customizations you'd want to download for Firefox are already a part of Internet Explorer 8 -- right out of the box.
Those Grapes are Sour ANYWAY!
And nothing is worse than this one:
Web Standards
It's a tie. Internet Explorer 8 passes more of the World Wide Web Consortium's CSS 2.1 test cases than any other browser, but Firefox 3 has more support for some evolving standards.
Did you hear that? Because my head just fucking exploded.
And what the hell does "Manageability" mean? Rate at which the browser is able to be handled or controled? What the hell?! And their little quip for this one:
Neither Firefox nor Chrome provide guidance or enterprise tools. That's just not nice.
You know what's not nice? Having to write in my freaking javascript if(IE){ do tons of fucked up shit } else { everybody else's predictable behavior }. You know what else isn't nice? The scourge of websites that will forever taint the web because you couldn't get your shit together for IE6 and then you let it fester for years.
I am so done with internet explorer in any form. This ridiculous campaign is just here to piss me off. Microsoft has no one to blame but themselves for making me jaded and opposed to any form of IE.
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Funny)
aving to write in my freaking javascript if(IE){ do tons of fucked up shit } else { everybody else's predictable behavior }.
We should have started a campaign years ago to change that for:
if(IE){ } else { display page }
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Funny)
No.
if (IE) { send_drive_by_download_of_Firefox_with_IE_deleter } else { display page }
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Interesting)
It shouldn't be so hard to:
if (IE) {
hack IE
Download and install FF with IE skin
Set Desktop link to point FF
Set default browser to FF
Open FF to current page
Close and uninstall IE
}
Re: (Score:3)
Well, you'd e able to tell a few things were different. For example you'd be able to keep around 50 tabs open without the need for a quantum computer. Also, 80% of the content will render faster, by a factor of 5. If there's considerable use of JavaScript the page will be far more responsive, and you'll probably get features you don't see normally (because functionality is watered-down for IE, on many/most web-apps).
There's quite a bit of truth in that if(IE){}else{} statement:
if(ie){
Preload
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
if (IE) { send_drive_by_download_of_Firefox_with_IE_deleter } else { display page }
This post is currently modded as Funny, but this should definitely be the strategy of those who care about standards. At least for a while, an attempt to educate the public.
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Unfortunately, our corporation has mandated IE6. Sometimes its about managerial stubbornness, not user awareness.
Your CTO or equivalent should be putting a stop to that, and if he is not, he is not doing his job.
P.S. WTF is up with comment post dialog. Nice work, slashdot. Fucked it up AGAIN.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
He could be forced to himself.
I am currently forced to support, if not mandate, IE6. Reason? Our main web application was programmed braindead enough to work only (!) in IE6. Yes, the dev team are migrating it. Rather, they've been migrating (and billing) for almost 2 years now.
What? Do without? The company hangs on that effing application. Vendor lock-in doesn't only exist in consumer electronics...
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Funny)
I have a freaking huge customer (multi-national Fortune 100) that has mandated IE 6. Ouch ouch ouch. As a developer of web sites, I have to keep Win 98 in a VM on my laptop to test in IE 6.
IE 8 does not thrill me, as I now have to worry about 3 IE browsers.
Two words: Active Directory (Score:5, Informative)
And what the hell does "Manageability" mean? Rate at which the browser is able to be handled or controled? What the hell?!
I think "manageability" might have something to do with the IT department's ability to control settings on hundreds or thousands of computers in an Active Directory environment through Group Policy objects. Do Mozilla, Opera, and Google provide analogous tools to manage thousands of installations of Firefox, Opera, or Chrome?
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Sure, in a megacorporation or school environment I could see that being a useful feature. The inhabitants of those environments have little choice over their tools and are easy to extort through the neverending licensing/upgrade merry-go-round. Just the sort of vict^H^H^H^Hcustomer that Microsoft is looking for.
For me, I prefer a browser that is actually standards compliant (to the extent possible since the standards are a fast moving target), cross-platform and easier for ME, the end-user, to customize t
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Two words: Active Directory (Score:5, Informative)
Firefox has a MSI version that can be deployed on a whole domain: http://www.frontmotion.com/Firefox/index.htm [frontmotion.com]
Re:Two words: Active Directory (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Two words: Active Directory (Score:5, Insightful)
No, a third party has an MSI of Firefox. Mozilla still hasn't stepped up to the plate.
Isn't that the strength of open source? It's done, even if it's not done by Mozilla.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re:It's Too Late, I'm Done with IE (Score:5, Funny)
It's all about you, isn't it?
Well, I don't mean to sound narcissistic but this is how I imagine it happened:
Microsoft Web Admin: It's Friday, I'm bored. Let's do something fun.
Microsoft Web Developer: You want to go down to the gym and practice our aim at throwing chairs.
Microsoft Web Admin: Nah, that's not as fun anymore. Plus all the Stallman effigies are in disrepair.
Microsoft Web Developer: I know! Let's put up another page that makes all the Slashdot users shit themselves again!
Microsoft Web Admin: Oh man, that was pretty funny when we submitted the itsbetterwithwindows [slashdot.org] story and made it sound like that was Asus' idea.
Microsoft Web Developer: Hahaha, yeah, good times. Ok, I'll put something up claiming IE8 superiority. You get ready to post stuff some shill defenses.
Microsoft Web Admin: Oh, god, they're going to have aneurysms, this never gets old!
Microsoft Web Developer: What do you give for the over/under on number of posts?
Microsoft Web Admin: 300
Microsoft Web Developer: I'll put $20 on the over.
Microsoft Web Admin: You're on.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
but don't need this kind of guerrilla marketing that pretty much pisses people off.
Actually, I am not too sure if that is a bad thing. I have this warm fuzzy feeling in my belly that with each marketing campaign that pisses people off, MS are bringing themselves one step closer to the tipping point where people will start dropping anything with the MS logo on it as if it were a red hot fire-poker.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Mod parent up.
Firefox deployment is seriously hampered by the lack of official MSI packages and administrative templates for Group Policy.
Lots of people have pointed out that some random third parties have MSI packages on their website. That's nice, but my boss won't deploy a core application downloaded from some guy's homepage. So what's left... I can roll my own package, except that Firefox has hundreds of fiddly little files, which change rapidly across versions, so I have to do this over.. and over.. an
But does it run on linux? (Score:5, Funny)
I can't find it in the repos.
Re:But does it run on linux? (Score:4, Informative)
No, but you can run IE6 and IE7 [tatanka.com.br].
Re:But does it run on linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Two wrongs... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Two wrongs... (Score:5, Interesting)
Its campaign may be rubbish, but it's working! Also, we have been pounding MS for sticking to IE6 for long enough. Now that they're trying to get users to switch to a better browser (IE8 may not be the best, but it's definitely a lot better than IE6) we pound them again. They may claim what IE8 is better than Firefox/Opera/Safari/Chrome put together, we may hate them for that, but we have to spare a bit of love for the fact that they're finally letting their users know that they can have better than IE6. Now, unless they suddenly stop supporting IE8 and put it in the WGA program, we should be thanking them.
Re:Two wrongs... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not the best FF advert I've seen.
Having said that, I think it's not desperate and needy like "Okay... how much to use IE8? Ten grand? [microsoft.com]"
Re:Two wrongs... (Score:5, Funny)
Yes, Mozilla is lying.
They put a tick next to "Compatible with modern Web pages and technologies" for IE.
It is more customisable (Score:5, Funny)
Excelent Microsoft products (Score:4, Insightful)
I love my Microsoft keyboard. I love my Microsoft mouse.
I loved their Z-80 Softcard on my Apple II.
It's too bad they insist on making second-rate software. Their hardware is excelent.
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:5, Funny)
Tell that to my 5th Xbox 360!
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:5, Funny)
/\
|____ [not a fast learner]
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:5, Funny)
Yeah, but that's because they had all their best people working on Vista at the time.
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:5, Funny)
Now, I dual-boot Ubuntu and XP. The pure gold part is that roughly 75% of the time, XP doesn't recognize the hardware at first and I have to piss around replugging the USB cable, pressing the connect button and watching tiny green flashing lights for ten minutes before I can log in. When I boot Ubuntu, it just works.
So it becomes clear, the reason that Microsoft's software is second-rate is that it wasn't made to run on linux.
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:4, Informative)
The real fun comes a couple years into owning it, when Microsoft completely cuts support for Windows, while it still works perfectly everywhere else.
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Excelent Microsoft products (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
The best input device I have ever used, bar none, is the Microsoft Trackball Explorer.
It was so good, in fact, that Microsoft - inevitably - stopped selling it, in favour of a crappy unloved cheapo thumb-ball. The proper Explorers now sell on eBay for $150 and up - if you can get one. The ball alone sells for $45. Heheh, balls.
Customizability... (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
what a laugh (Score:5, Insightful)
IE is going to have to work damn hard to get rid of that reputation amoungst developers
Re:what a laugh (Score:5, Interesting)
The problem is that for every one of us developers that hates IE, there are 10 more developers who know nothing else and think this Firefox thing is some hippie fad, and are very adamant about it. Frontpage and .Net have caused immeasurable damage to the web with their completely broken markup, but if you're the kind of imbecile who knows nothing but Frontpage, your P.O.V. is that all the other browsers suck.
No matter how you slice it, it is always easier to support a single platform, than to support all of them. It just so happens that when you develop "for" Firefox, you're usually closer to that cross-browser goal than had you aimed for IE in the first place. But then once in a while, I'll forget to test my template in IE and sure enough, that's the one that breaks.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The problem is that for every one of us developers that hates IE, there are 10 more developers who know nothing else and think this Firefox thing is some hippie fad, and are very adamant about it.
That may have been true 10 years ago, but now, I would have a hard time finding a web developer who doesn't take Firefox seriously. Maybe in a large corporate infrastructure where the site is to be used by employees who are not allowed to have any browser other than IE...
Re: (Score:3)
The problem is that for every one of us developers that hates IE, there are 10 more developers who know nothing else and think this Firefox thing
Don't you meant that "Foxfire" thing
Web standards (Score:3, Interesting)
The first step on the road to recovery is admitting that you have a problem. Maybe Internet Explorer 8 is a born again standards compliant browser if it needs a special button to render sites designed for IE6.
If you can't beat 'em, tie 'em? (Score:4, Interesting)
It's pretty hilarious on all of the categories which are ties that Microsoft admits the other browsers are better, but then discounts the reasons why because, according to them, it turns out that the category doesn't matter for some reason or another so, it's a TIE!
Just for kicks (Score:5, Insightful)
Compe up with a native Linux/BSD version Microsoft, and then we will talk.
Overrun by business managers... (Score:5, Insightful)
No doubt MS is overrun by business managers, which I am sure is most of their problems. To a business person, the product is the after thought, but the marketing is the most important thing. IE does not have problems because of poor marketing. It has problems because of of countless security issues with the code itself that have in the past left machines very vulnerable to malicious attempts. Any technology person can tell you this, but I bet this will not be presented as a "fact" on their marketing campaign...
Hrmm (Score:5, Funny)
They seemed to take out a couple of categories from the original chart.
* Browser most likely to cause the user to pull out hair - IE8
* Browser able to download viruses and malware the fastest - IE8
* Browser able to crash and take your whole OS down faster than a $2 hooker - IE8
The facts from Microsoft's point of view. (Score:5, Insightful)
They're using the definition of fact that says: "fact : a statement accepted as true as the basis for argument or inference "
The catch is, it's biased people at MS who "accept it as true" on the "basis for [inherently flawwed] argument or inference"
Microsoft is becoming infamous for these bogus get the "facts" campaigns, which are really marketing attempts to use Microsoft's truth to distort common belief, replacing the facts with MS' contrived point of view.
Audience is Microsoft employees. (Score:5, Insightful)
Javascript (Score:5, Interesting)
I notice that the very last item is about performance.
I can load up the entire inventory of my network in around 3 seconds in Chrome and Opera. It takes 11 seconds in IE8.
Not fast at all.
"Ease of Use" (Score:5, Insightful)
I have absolutely no idea what those things are, or for that matter where in IE8 you can find them.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
After some investigation I did find the "Accelerators", seems to be a collection of plugins to do things with selected text (other than searching the internet).
According to the help "Web Slices" appear to be special features offered by websites. So unless a website supports that you won't have any use for it. It's probably some advanced RSS feature, or widget like thing.
But "Visual Search Suggestions" remains an unknown feature.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Double Blind (Score:4, Interesting)
Use of quotes (Score:5, Funny)
Microsoft Launches New "Get the Facts" Campaign
'Microsoft Launches New Get the "Facts" Campaign' There, fixed that for you....
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I always called it a "Get The Facts Out" campaign, or "GTFO" for short.
I don't get it... (Score:4, Insightful)
Fact: Internet Exploiter is PART OF THE USER INTERFACE of every windows operating system since 95.
Fact: You can't uninstall IE without effecting your core operating system functionality. (Windows updates, programs that use IE's rendering engine for their own user interface - antivirus software, I'm looking at you!)
Fact: A VAST majority of Windows users have automatic updates enabled by default and will receive IE8 whether they like it or not (and they probably won't care anyway, as most users couldn't even tell you what version of IE they're running in the first place.)
Fact: Internet Exploiter has nearly always been, is currently and will always be the most used browser on Windows platforms. Yes, suck it up FF/O/Etc fans. We will gain market share, but when you're aftermarket and not OEM, people generally don't care. How many people change the stereo in their car? Sure. You can get an awesome stereo to replace the factory one, but if the factory one functions correctly and lets you listen to music, then why change?
I have worked in IT for over 10 years in the frontline. I'm tech support at a retail store, so my customers are the general public. We load FF on every PC that comes in and encourage our customers to use it. We load IE8 on every clean install of Windows we do because, and here's a really important point, that's the only safe time to upgrade IE without having the OS get screwed over. When IE8 first became a "Critical Windows update" and customers were installing it, we were inundated with fxxked computers that lost network connectivity, or crashed, or ran dog slow.
Hell, I recommend customers use OpenOfficeOrg instead of forking money out for Office.
And you can blabber on about developers. I do some web developing myself and I adhere to the W3C standards - NOT Microsoft standards. But the END USER doesn't care. If the page works fine, then whoopedy-doo! If they run FF/O/etc and the page doesn't work, where do they go? Do they send emails to the website? Do they complain to the W3C? Do they send mail to Firefox? No. They click the shiny (e) icon and try it there. Then what? Most users will continue their browsing experience in IE. Why switch back and forth between 2 browsers? End users see that as redundant.
This may be a little off-topic, but how about an "Only works with IE" blacklist website where IExclusive (hehe, I just came up with that LOL) websites are NAMED AND SHAMED. Then promote the shit out of the site. Maybe developers who cater only to Microsoft's needs would think twice about firing up Fro... Front.... Frontpa.... damnit, I can't say it.
A better campaign for IE8... (Score:4, Funny)
We'll hide your porn.
Did you notice the browsers they used? (Score:5, Insightful)
Apple Safari v3
Google Chrome 1.0.154
Microsoft Internet Explorer v8 (RC1)
Microsoft Internet Explorer v7
Mozilla Firefox v3.07
Opera 9.64
So they compare a Release Candidate vs "older browsers"?
Safari is at version 4 as a regular release, not sure about any beta's or RC's...
I'm using Chrome 2.0.172.31 right now to post this
Firefox is at 3.5 for a Beta (Or RC by now..)
Opera is at 10 for a Beta
They should have done apples to apples. When the IE8 RC was out, so was pre-releases of FF 3.5, Opera 10, as well as Safari and Chrome in more updated versions than they used.
Microsoft going the way of Motorola (Score:3, Insightful)
Who is the target audience? (Score:3, Interesting)
Who are they aiming at here? Certainly not this group. Definitely not developers. Anyone in IT is going to get a good laugh. It's just surreal.
It's like this ad campaign was designed when the execs were baked. It sounded good in the hot tub but when reality strikes, they discover that planning ad campaigns when you're high is a really bad idea.
If there's some super sekret ad strategy at work here I'd sure like to know what it is, because it's hard to see it as anything but a massive waste of time and money. I don't think most people even care and it reminds the development community how much they hate IE.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmmm. (Score:4, Interesting)
My first thought was to laugh myself silly with a touch of indignant rage.
But actually I take this a bit more seriously.. There is a well known phenomenon (that I am sure somebody else knows the name of) where people tend to believe what they read and we are not the target audience of this advertising tripe. Many people who will read this (and do not know better) will believe it and follow it and pass it on. And that irritates mes.
In this fraternity we all sit back and mock the ridiculous claims and statement in their FUD and sales - but at the end of the day they are quietly winning the war with one ill educated person swayed towards their cause after another.
I sure have no answers, but I do not feel like mocking this kind of crap anymore.
At work I use FF - but I am forced to use IE for the corporate portal because apparently only IE can possibly work on the portal, so they paid somebody to edit the script to reject all "non-approved" browsers. That is the end result of ill informed high up decisions based on fluff like this.
Lies, Damned Lies, and Advertising (Score:4, Insightful)
Time was, you only had to take an advertiser's claims with one grain of salt, but in the last few decades it seems like there's been a kind of hyper-inflation; now, you can't even read an advertisement critically to filter the hyperbole and extract some useful information, because there isn't any left. After years of being unabashedly lied to by advertisers, we now have no choice but to assume that all advertising is pure, unadulterated lies.
It's a little sad; it only took a few companies abusing the consumers' trust to ruin it for everyone.
Can we come up with coherent rebuttals? (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Can we come up with coherent rebuttals? (Score:5, Informative)
1) IE8 does much worse at ACID3, so it is less standards compliant.
2) What IE8 does out of the box covers what a few Firefox extensions do, out of thousands available. Where are Tree Style Tabs? No squint? No Script? Its All text? (to pick a few I like)
3) Compatibility not that good because there are sure to be lots of sites around that still serve IE7 CSS workarounds to IE 8.
4) Performance does matter for very javascript heavy pages, which are now quite common
5) IE8 developer tools cannot match Firefox + Web developer Toolbar + Firebug + YSlow etc...
6) The others have malware protection. What about MS's generally bad track record.
7) tab isolation and recovery are not the be all and end all of reliability: how reliable is the rendering engine for example? It is better not to crash than to recover.
8) Firefox has some terrific ease of use features, as does Opera. The search in the FF location bar, and Opera quick dial come to mind, but there are a lot more.
9) IE is Windows only, which is also bad for security.
Victory at hand (Score:5, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The "Get the Macs" Campaign? (Score:3, Funny)
M$ has finally admitted that the Mac Platform runs Windows best?
How to destroy the meaning of a word. (Score:5, Insightful)
fact (plural facts)
1. An honest observation.
2. Something actual as opposed to invented.
In this story, the Gettysburg Address is a fact, but the rest is fiction.
3. Something which has become real.
The promise of television became a fact in the 1920s.
4. Something concrete used as a basis for further interpretation.
Let's look at the facts of the case before deciding.
5. An objective consensus on a fundamental reality that has been agreed upon by a substantial number of people.
There is no doubting the fact that the Earth orbits the Sun.
6. Information about a particular subject.
The facts about space travel.
Microsoft adds this to the list:
7. Something Microsoft pulls out of their asses.
"Get the facts".
They have given bogus 'facts' about their software offerings with regards to Linux, and now to Firefox. Do they think we're idiots? Are they really that scared about competition? That they need to resort to outright lying? How can you build a trust-relationship with them, if you can't trust them when they come out with 'facts'? What happened to ethics?
Re:How to destroy the meaning of a word. (Score:5, Funny)
Analysis comes from the word anal and the ancient Greek word "ysis", meaning "to pull numbers from".
-Scott Adams
Bizzaro? (Score:3, Funny)
What is this? Bizzaro World?
FTC Advertising Guidelines (Score:3, Interesting)
I think Microsoft is over the line with this campaign from a legal standpoint and will get the smackdown from the FTC.
Fromt the STATEMENT OF POLICY REGARDING COMPARATIVE ADVERTISING http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-compare.htm [ftc.gov].
"The Commission has supported the use of brand comparisons where the bases of comparison are clearly identified. Comparative advertising, when truthful and non-deceptive, is a source of important information to consumers and assists them in making rational purchase decisions."
If the page "Clearly Identifies" the basis of the comparison, I don't see it.
And
"Some industry codes which prohibit practices such as "disparagement," "disparagement of competitors," "improper disparagement," "unfairly attacking," "discrediting," may operate as a restriction on comparative advertising. The Commission has previously held that disparaging advertising is permissible so long as it is truthful and not deceptive."
As many others have pointed out, several of the claims are, to put it generously, a stretch.
Parody (Score:5, Funny)
Parody of Microsoft's browser comparison [kilianvalkhof.com]
Re:Sure... (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, the 'customizability' advantage comes from the fact that IE can be quickly customized by third parties, online, in real time and without even needing to notify you.
Re:Sure... (Score:4, Funny)
Viagra is for lovers what steroids are to weighhtlifters. I'm average to mediocre without it, but give me a blue pill and I'll give her an orgasm.
If you're over 50 all you have to do to get a prescription is ask the doctor. Insurance even covers it.
It's actually for men whose wives have gotton so old, fat, and ugly that NOBODY could get it up for them without drugs. Ever noticed that the commercials for these drugs have gius with hot wives? Christ, anybody who couldn't get it up with those women must be gay. It's for guys with UGLY wives!
IE8 and vista (Score:4, Interesting)
I had to uninstall IE8 from vista because it screwed up folder views for all of Vista. For some weird reason, on some systems, IE8 causes every folder to be opened in a new window. The only fix at the time was to go back to IE7. Pretty sad when upgrading a browser downgrades your OS.
Re:Translation (Score:5, Interesting)
I think they don't get it. And to be honest Mozilla no longer does too. Customization is great. It is (well, was) the great thing about Firefox. Once you start packing a whole load of features into the basic browser you are losing all that flexibility. That's what add-ons are for, giving the user choice, while keeping the basic browser fast and effective.
I'm not using IE8 this side of Hell freezing over. However, I do appreciate upping the ante and offering competition.
Mozilla sat on their asses in terms of efficiency and effectiveness, while they stuff the basic browser full of crap in the same way they destroyed Netscape. That's the one good thing about IE8 it kicks Mozilla up the ass.
Now maybe Mozilla can start working harder on memory leaks, multi-threading, making Firefox not suck on a Mac, and getting rid of needless bloat like the Awesome bar.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Now, this is the bit where I call you an idiot. Every modern browser has support for auto-playing MP3s (unless you are on a stock Linux install in a jurisdiction where software patents are legal, but then you're as likely
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not sure if you can blame any browser if your frontpage has 188 Errors, 6 warnings on the html validator.
(try hiding your script language) !