Dymaxion Car Being Restored 121
An anonymous reader notes that R. Buckminster Fuller's Dymaxion Car is being restored by the company Crosthwaite and Gardiner. Only three of the vehicles were produced in the 1930s and only one survives. "Synchronofile.com has been granted the great honor of announcing the restoration of the Dymaxion Car — because our readers are now invited to help in the project. Can you identify the manufacturer for the component shown at the link?"
I recognize a flux capacitor when I see one (Score:5, Funny)
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Not for a restoration project.
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Crosthwaite and Gardiner. (Score:4, Funny)
Slashdot Users (Score:1)
Slashdot users
Get their knowledge
From many years
In junior college.
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Burma Shave
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... and no reference would be complete without a mention of the work that they did for Audi restoring Auto Unions from the 30s:
http://www.ianmacfarlane.co.uk/ianHome.htm [ianmacfarlane.co.uk]
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=i7pI99iOezo [youtube.com]
(I was lucky enough to see the both reproduction and restored C and D types running at Donington a few years ago)
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You do realize not everyone is British here, right?
You do realize not everyone is not British here, right?
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An immature joke does not imply an immature jester or even an immature audience. I'm 50 and I still get the occasional chuckle out of the way "fanny" is used in the US. The city in SE Asia called "Phuket" also amuses me in a Bevis and Butthead kinda way.
Personally I found the OP's joke too obvious to be funny but why do you feel compelled to throw a
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Is it that difficult for you to show a different kind of maturity and just be indifferent (or even pleased) that someone else is having a laugh?
That is an excellent question, one I wish was considered more broadly and frequently than the fleeting forum a momentary flash of brilliance in a random slashdot post offers.
As far as your sense of humour goes, all I have to say is Thank God for Wikipedia [wikipedia.org].
Pretty cool ride, actually (Score:5, Informative)
The Dymaxion car was a concept car designed by U.S. inventor and architect Buckminster Fuller during 1933. The word Dymaxion is a brand name that Fuller gave to several of his inventions, to emphasize that he considered them part of a more general project to improve humanity's living conditions. The car had a fuel efficiency of 30 miles per US gallon (7.8 L/100 km; 36 mpg-imp). It could transport 11 passengers. While Fuller claimed it could do speeds of 120 miles per hour (190 km/h), the fastest documented speed was 90 miles per hour (140 km/h).
not bad for a 30's car and a V8 (albeit an 84hp V8).
Re:Pretty cool ride, actually (Score:5, Informative)
It's on Damn Interesting as well: http://www.damninteresting.com/the-extraordinary-dymaxion-automobile [damninteresting.com]
The car flopped because the prototype had a fatal accident in an auto show, so the investors pulled out.
Re:Pretty cool ride, actually (Score:4, Informative)
More precisely,
The Dymaxion was later exonerated when an investigation showed that the other driver had likely been at fault, but the damage wreaked by the negative press had condemned the project to the scrap heap of history.
Re:Pretty cool ride, actually (Score:4, Insightful)
In at least this respect, B. Fuller should have taken the advice of automotive industry engineers of the day, who would have told him that this (steering arrangement) was a waste of time. It is generally presumed to be impossible to build a mechanical rear-wheel-steering system that exhibits positive stability (that being the natural tendency to hold a straight line, AND to return to a straight line on its own when you release the steering controls in a turn).
Positive stability isn't necessary for slow vehicles such as forklifts and construction and agricultural tractors, but it is critical for high-speed vehicles.
I recall reading that one (Dymaxion) was eventually converted to front-wheel steering, just so that it could to an exhibition run on a test track at typical car speeds.
~
Re:Pretty cool ride, actually (Score:5, Interesting)
Greetings and salutations...
First off, please understand that I consider Bucky Fuller to be in the running for the smartest inventor of the 20th century, and, (at least SO far) the 21st, so I have a small amount of bias towards him. Do a bit of research and SEE what basic parts of today's society his inventions have become - say, like Celotex.
Now, as for the Dymaxion car... Here is an interesting link that seems to be a pretty complete history.
http://www.washedashore.com/projects/dymax/chronology.html
The car was, as is pointed out, a concept car, and, was in the process of evolving through its three incarnations. Each one was further away from the "pie in the sky" design, and closer to something that could be put in the hands of the average idiot, without them killing themselves in the first thirty minutes. The car also had some PRETTY innovative designs in it, including state of the art materials, and, individual suspension on all the wheels, with a decoupling of the body from the chassis, producing a VERY smooth ride. In "the Dymaxion world of Buckminster Fuller", it is quoted that the car could drive across a plowed field, at high speed, with the passengers feeling very little vibration or jostling.
I also question your assertion that rear wheel steering is unstable or dangerous. It is, I agree, different in its response to steering commands, but, I am not entirely sure that it is SO different that it is hard to get used to. I would think that the appropriate caster angle would tend to push the steered wheel back to a straight position, just as it works with front steered vehicles.
Your recollection as correct, but incomplete, as the third model of the Dymaxion car was a ALL-WHEEL steered vehicle.
Another poster says something about the danger of roll-overs. Fuller understood physics quite well, which is why the single wheel was located in the rear. Trikes are only prone to rolling over because the force vectors are unsupported by a single FRONT wheel. By putting the two wheels up front, it brings great stability to the vehicle. As an example of this...take a wheel barrow...put a bunch of stone in it, then, try pushing it along the ground, with the single wheel out front. It is hard to keep it upright and stable, and, to make turns. Then, take the same wheelbarrow, and, PULL it along by the handles. All of a sudden that wheelbarrow becomes a model of stability and maneuverability.
Regards
Dave Mundt
The Dynamaxion was one of the worst designs ever. (Score:5, Interesting)
The 2-front 1-rear three wheeler design is vastly supervisor to the 1-front 2-rear. But the big problem I see with the Dynamaxion is three fold:
1) In an emergency situation, people react by crushing the break pedal. In a front wheel steering car this increases the down force on the steering wheels, improving traction, and gives the driver more control over the car. In a rear wheel steering vehicle, when the breaks are applied hard, weight still transfers from the rear axle to the front. But that means less down-force on the rear wheel and less steering control.
2) The cab forward design of the body put the majority of the vehicle's weight over the front axle already making the vehicle steer and handle worth a crap even under only moderate breaking.
3) The accident that kill the driver was the other vehicle's driver's fault. But that driver was guilty of following too close. When the driver of the Dynamaxion hit the breaks (transferring weight to the front axle, and the person following too close hit the REAR of the Dynamaxion, the vehicle flipped forward. Even though it was the other drivers fault, it was the incredibly poor design of the vehicle that allowed it to roll in such a manor.
There were amazing technological feats to this car, but the single rear wheel steering combined with the cab forward body was absolutely 100% retarded.
If you want to see the pinnacle of 3-wheeler technology, look into the T-Rex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Rex_(automobile) [wikipedia.org] And Aptera http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aptera_2e [wikipedia.org] or some of the tilt-steering prototypes.
-Rick
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The car was dangerous because it used rear-wheel steering.
In at least this respect, B. Fuller should have taken the advice of automotive industry engineers of the day, who would have told him that this (steering arrangement) was a waste of time. It is generally presumed to be impossible to build a mechanical rear-wheel-steering system that exhibits positive stability (that being the natural tendency to hold a straight line, AND to return to a straight line on its own when you release the steering controls in a turn).
Positive stability isn't necessary for slow vehicles such as forklifts and construction and agricultural tractors, but it is critical for high-speed vehicles.
I recall reading that one (Dymaxion) was eventually converted to front-wheel steering, just so that it could to an exhibition run on a test track at typical car speeds.
~
Thrust SSC used single rear wheel steering and it broke the sound barrier.
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Technically, it had two closely-spaced wheels in the back. But I think that the huge airplane-like stabilizer fins had more to do with keeping it pointed forward than any of its wheels did.
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Looks like he invented the first mini van!
Wait for it..
For Soccer moms.
Yes, it's a joke that requires thinking, sorry.
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damm.. 1933 and it got 36 mpg.
76 years later. and my car gets 34 mpg.
theres something really wrong with this...
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wrong. 1933 it got 36mpg WITH A V8 ENGINE and a 20 FOOT LONG BODY.
geniuses like fuller arent around anymore. dont you love progress ?
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wrong. 1933 it got 36mpg WITH A V8 ENGINE and a 20 FOOT LONG BODY.
geniuses like fuller arent around anymore. dont you love progress ?
I've long been a fan of this vehicle, but it's basically a light airplane fuselage stripped of wings and control surfaces. Of course it will have great economy and straight-line performance. That doesn't make it a practical, comfortable or safe ground vehicle.
Modern computerized control systems could probably address its stability issues, but a competitive modern version would probably have to be much heavier to provide crashworthiness, sound deadening, climate control, etc. Highway mileage would always be
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That we still use fossils.
The cool ride didn't have pollution controls (Score:1)
Nothing against Bucky, but I wonder what kind of mileage you'd get if your car didn't have all the various emission and safety features that decrease mileage.
Is it Shenzhen Kiss-jia Company? (Score:2)
Is it the Shenzhen Kiss-jia Company [kiss-jia.com]?
More info you worthless editors! (Score:4, Informative)
After reading the "summary" and all the links I still don't know what any of this means. From what I gather three cars were made in the 1930s and they need to know who made the turn signals. Thats about all so far....
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You'll know more than most slashdotters after the 3MB of images linked from the summary brings that server to its knees.
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Car by the guy [wikipedia.org] who got buckminsterfulerine or buckyballs [wikipedia.org] (of nanotechnology fame) named after him. Famous for his geodesic dome designs. He was somewhat of a quirky inventor type. Now hand in your geek card ;-)
Pictures (Score:5, Informative)
Seriously, an article on some obscure car should include at least one image so we know what the heck it's talking about.
http://www.washedashore.com/projects/dymax/pictures.html
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My dad used to take me to vintage rallys when I was a kid in the 60's. TFA reminds me of a car that used to show up at most of the rallys. It had one ornate kerosene headlamp, there was a card inside the lamp offering a reward for "my other eye". The card was there for at least 10yrs that I know of, I often wonder if he found it?
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And please make the URL clickable too! :)
http://www.washedashore.com/projects/dymax/pictures.html [washedashore.com]
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It is clickable. Haven't you installed the Linkification plugin?
Here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/190 [mozilla.org]
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Why do I need that extension if /. can do it? Also, I don't use Firefox.
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There's something about it that looks disturbingly like a very large cockroach.
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There's a video [youtube.com] of the car in action, as well. Apparently Amelia Earhart is in the back seat.
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Apparently it's NOT Amelia Earhart in the back seat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_car [wikipedia.org]
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We need help too. (Score:5, Funny)
Hi it's Iran here, we need help re-constructing this piece of history [wikipedia.org].
Details of components can be found by following the link above.
Easy enough... (Score:2)
Just aim a cannon[loaded with a fissionable warhead at high velocity] at some fissionable material. The more FM, the better.
Just make sure you try this at 'home', after all, it's not rocket surgery...;-)
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I think it's best to stop loading FM before the cannon gets hot enough to cook breakfast on, YMMV.
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But the link was to fat man. Fat man was a plutonium implosion device, much more complicated than the simple uranium gun mechanism in Little Boy. You can't use the simple gun mechanism on Plutonium.
James
Cool - when can I order one? (Score:4, Interesting)
Just kidding here. But it was a beautiful idea. RBF may have been a crackpot, but he was my sort of crackpot - no axiom sacred. Yes, they weren't exactly safe, but then Ralf Nader wouldn't have passed on the Model A Ford-era cars with their beam front axles and rather philosophical approach to braking and steering, either.
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You know, a hybrid car with a sterling engine wouldn't really be that bad of an idea.
I had thought up a few practical(ish) applications for Sterling engines, but couldn't find anywhere to buy a working one of any substantial size. Sure, I've found instructions on making one with a couple soda cans, but nothing that would make a few HP and spin a generator head.
How well would a hybrid parked in the sun do, if you could produce say 11hp to spin a 6Kw generator hea
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Thanks for the link.
The most practical application that I wanted to find info for was a friend in Alaska. They're in geothermal active areas, so a subterranean loop would provide for a very warm side, always warmer than the cool side of the ambient air. A lot of people up there live off-grid, and have to truck, boat, or fly diesel fuel in to keep their generators going. That's a cumbersome task in mid winter.
For us folks farther south, I liked the idea of usin
Pardon my ignorance... (Score:2)
Does it have to be 120VAC 60Hz?
I know inverters lose energy in the conversion, but could not DC at *some* voltage be usable/efficient enough to make this worthwhile for examination/exploration?
I am just asking, 'cause I am out of my area of expertise here, and am probably off course if it hasn't been done yet....just curious.
Maybe it's more efficient to use *n*VAC and not convert to DC, or to optimise VAC to the engine?
On the surface, to a layman, this may seem possible...or I am truly over my head here and
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It's just a matter of what you're trying to power with it. :)
I'm converting a city bus to be an RV, and have been looking at what's available in a lot of different ways. For electrical stuff, I could go with any standard, since I'm starting with a blank slate. It provides 12VDC and 24VDC. Ideally, I would want to go with 24VDC for everything, but it's not exactly easy to find COTS equipment like that. In other words, if the refrigerator or TV fails, you can't just run down t
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Here are some sites you might be interested in:
http://howardhallfarm.com/freewatt.html [howardhallfarm.com]
http://www.infiniacorp.com/ [infiniacorp.com]
http://www.mrsolar.com/ [mrsolar.com]
http://www.dodsbir.net/selections/abs071/osdabs071.htm [dodsbir.net]
http://www.stirling-tech.com/ [stirling-tech.com]
You might want to also contact the Honda Motor Company, as they mass produce the engine type you are interested in (they use them in their Hybrids).
The New Nomads (Score:3, Interesting)
The most practical application that I wanted to find info for was a friend in Alaska. They're in geothermal active areas, so a subterranean loop would provide for a very warm side, always warmer than the cool side of the ambient air. A lot of people up there live off-grid, and have to truck, boat, or fly diesel fuel in to keep their generators going. That's a cumbersome task in mid winter.
Ok, you've generated some nice imagery there. Somehow I took your Alaskan environment and tied it up in my mind with Dymaxion cars and Fuller-dome shaped (shush, Stewart, let me work with this) trailers using Stirling engines. You'd only travel when the sun was up, or when you had fuel for the iron stove in the back to run the engine.
There's something very Steampunk, very Golden Age of SF, Popular Mechanix cover about the image. "Well, looks like the sun's coming out. Pack up everybody, let's get ready t
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Stirling with an "i".
Perhaps he wants an engine made of Sterling silver [wikipedia.org]?
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...something with a bit better stability control
Yes, well, anybody who has flown a taildragger can understand why this car could never be "naturally" stable. The usual experiment with a shopping cart can dramatically show you why.
KSJ (Score:2)
Surely a skilled machinist could just make a matching turn signal indicator from scratch.
A quick google reveals
KSJ Auto Sales NJ
KSJ Auto Parts Malaysia
KSJ Engineering India
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Yeah, it looks like a pretty standard school bus turn signal lamp to me. Hard to tell for sure without a better idea of the size, though. It would have been helpful if they had included some sort of scale in the photo.
Re:KSJ scale (Score:2)
Re:KSJ (Score:4, Informative)
30 MPG... in the 1930s (Score:4, Interesting)
According to the Wikipedia article [wikipedia.org], the Dymaxion car had 30 MPG and could transport 11 passengers with only three wheels. Suck on that, Detroit.
Re:30 MPG... in the 1930s (Score:4, Insightful)
If you took that thing and updated it to meet current U.S. safety and emissions requirements, you'd get nowhere near the same gas mileage.
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The thing had a canvas roof. You don't get much lighter than that.
The GP was correct; this car's efficiency would drop like a rock if brought up to spec. Heck, it'd drop like a rock if you merely tested the existing thing on a modern drivecycle. Also, the rear wheel steering was a really, really bad idea.
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Re:30 MPG... in the 1930s (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh yeah, because all of those cars from the sixties and early seventies got such great gas mileage before they had to add the emissions control equipment. And the cars were so much lighter then too without seatbelts and air bags.
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Try comparing the weight of an 80s or 90s car to the same class today.
The Honda Accord, for example, has gained about 550 KG (1200 pounds) over its various iterations.
I don't know how much of this is due to attempts to make the car more comfortable and quiet, and how much is due to safety regulations, but efficiency gains are definitely being eaten by weight gains.
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unusual if (Score:2, Interesting)
It is said that the fatal crash which cursed the prototype was due to astonishment.
Despite its remarkable innovations the Dymaxion car misfitted common sense.
Here's the photo. Looks like American design. (Score:1)
Euro's are shaking.
http://0p3nfr4m3w0rk.org/install/dymaxion-car.jpg [0p3nfr4m3w0rk.org]
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Looks more like the gondola of a blimp to me.
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speaking as an amateur machinist... (Score:2, Insightful)
Who *cares* who made the part? It'd obviously be trivial for any competent machine shop to duplicate.
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It's sheet metal, not machined from stock, so that machine shop would have to produce dies for the job.
Do-able, but it would be several hundred dollars worth of work at least for the shell, then more money to duplicate the lens. Looks like a generic add-on light of the era.
Posting the thing in Hemmings Motor News along with contacting appropriate firms for help would make much more sense.
Anyone who restores old cars should be thoroughly familiar with Hemmings, which has been around for decades:
http://www.he [hemmings.com]
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No, it could be cut from existing materials. Anyone who is good with metal could recreate it.
Crumpet catcher (Score:2)
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Heh, "crumpet catcher" nice.
Although I believe the historically correct nomenclature is "Vaginal lodestone"
Strumpet catcher on rye.... (Score:2)
Galls would yearn to be picked up...
[my emphasis on OP's spelling choice]
Do you mean Gauls [wikipedia.org], Gals [wikipedia.org], or 'gals'[as in females].
Or is this some kind of kinky gall bladder pr0n I have not heard of yet....
You need to be more specific.....this is /. after all...Definitively worth an article on /. ;-)
And don't blame this on 'sticky keys' either....Clean Off/Out Your Keyboard!!!!
The obvious question that should be asked... (Score:2)
Why, in seventy years, haven't we seen anything half as innovative in either design or efficiency come to market?
To my mind this in itself is reason enough for Detroit to have wound up a wholly owned subsidiary of the US government, which also guarantees that we will never see anything remotely progressive taking to the road in these United States.
Yugo anyone?
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There have been plenty of 40+ mpg cars with anemic engines and minimal metal brought to market; most people don't buy them.
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anemic engines
This had a V8 and more room than a tiny subcompact.
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This had a V8 and more room than a tiny subcompact.
An *anemic* V8. A typical modern 4-cylinder (and even a few 3-cylinder) economy car engines are more powerful than that one.
The OP also said the car had minimal metal. He didn't say that the small amount of metal wasn't stretched out over a large interior volume.
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I know it's ahrd to tell from car commercials, but engin power is determined be a lot of factoirs, and the number of cylynders is just one.
For example, what id each cylinder was only 1 inch in diameter. You wouldn't get a lot of power.
I used an extreme examples to make a point.
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Perhaps because, while it was visionary in a number of areas it wasn't actually very good as a car?
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Right on. People get so engrossed in the hero-worship of kooky "inventors" that they seem to check all and any critical abilities at the door.
As for this wacko of a "car", one could ask questions like: How do you install windshield wipers on a curved window composed of a bunch of panes? What is the dynamic stability of this three-wheeled wonder when turning at 120 km/h? Side wind, anyone? What is the traction one can get of a single rear mounted wheel transferring the entire output of the power-train on a
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The single rear wheel steering system hasn't been used by any manufacturer on any serious car (save $200 rickshaw bicycle/motorbike conversions somewhere in the Orient) during all of these decades with many millions of vehicles produced. I find it rather unlikely that a workable concept would be ignored by countless engineers world over for the last 60 years or so...
And there is still the problem of general dynamic stability, by d
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You might want to look into the details of the accident before saying it didn't cause much trouble.
No control when skidding, and it would roll forward when rear ended.
It's an interesting car, but many interesting cars turn out not to be practicle.
A funnier thing to remember is that he basically invented the first mini van....and mini vans are what Soccer moms drive.
Taking this seriously... (Score:3, Interesting)
It's been similarly pointed out that electric vehicles were very successful - at the end of the 19th century, because lead acid cell powered vehicles work well at horse speeds and horse ranges. Once the IC engine made much higher speeds and longer ranges possible, the electric buggy was dead.
Once trucks started their steady growt
Re:Taking this seriously... (Score:4, Interesting)
The reason you haven't seen anything so innovative in 70 years is that the last 70 years have had constant steady progress.
Not to rain on that parade, but in the mid-1930s we had V-8 engines for cars, which could accommodate no more than 6 passengers comfortably and got well under 30 MPG. Airplanes one the other hand had rotary engines a la the Armstrong-Siddeley [flightglobal.com] or Pratt & Whitney [wikipedia.org], carrying up to 14 passengers and with flight range capabilities of up to 745 miles.
Today we have 4 cylinder engines in cars that can barely accommodate four adults comfortably, let alone six, with a few models sporting MPG ratings in the 40+ range, but with fleet averages still far below that. Contrast that with aircraft, which have enjoyed brutes like this one [geae.com] for decades, and whose carrying capacities have increased geometrically since the 1930's and whose range can extend to the thousands of miles.
Anti-lock brakes, power steering, GPS in-dash navigation, and all the other bells and whistles are all well and good. But aside from computer controls and fuel injection (another technology from the last century), we are still being driven by the same engine Henry Ford used, in little metal (though now increasingly plastic) compartments not radically different from those used in 1930.
If the same attention to innovation and invention had been nurtured in the automotive industry as it was in the aircraft industry who knows what we'd be "driving" now.
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So, by your definition, we'll have made progress if every person on the road is driving a V-12 powered bus?
Hate to break it to you, but the rather ordinary V4 in my car generates more power output than pretty much any consumer-grade car manufactured prior to 1980, and comes close to matching the V-12s used by Ferrari in the 70s. I'd call that quite significant progress. Even more impressively, Volkswagen's 4cyl diesel can even come close to those numbers, produce more torque, and still attain 40-50mpg, wh
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One word: Aptera [aptera.com]
The real reason that we haven't seen innovation is that we have allowed the automobile industry to be structured in such a way that rewards huge, monolithic corporations rather than entrepreneurs. Why do we need huge dealer/distributor networks for cars, when everything else can be purchased over the web? Why do we have parts and service departments that only work on one bra
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One word: Aptera
OMG! Thanks for that link. This is one worth watching.
As for the rest of your points... I couldn't agree more, especially with "Fuck the monolithic corporations -- let them fail."
Bailouts prevent Darwinian principles from thinning the herd.
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Browse some of the vids on YouTube, or its appearance on Jay Leno's Garage. Awesome vehicle, isn't it? I have my reservation down -- I'm in the 300s (the waiting list is over 4k long).
They're making a 2e (electric), 2h (plug-in hybrid), and 2g (gas-only), as well as a 4-series (4 wheels, four seats, but still with the Aptera philosophy of extreme safety and efficiency).
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What? Car are far more efficient, and more innovative.
Yeah, the government has never done anything progressive~
Of course all the American auto manufactures are completly changing and innovating right now. The ONLY role the government has to do with these companies is high end financial. So fi Dodge wanted to buy another company, the government would need to approve. The government isn't in the engineering and design meeting.
Cool, but fatally flawed (Score:3, Interesting)
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"I just think there might be a reason why nobody uses rear wheel steering."
Apply brakes in a curve and you'd promptly swap ends. It would steer like a pallet jack.
Big project (Score:2)
They're trying to restore the entire car, and all they have to start with is a turn signal light? And they're looking to replace that! Looks like a lot of remanufacturing will need to occur.
It looks like the oscar myer weinermobile (Score:2)
Yes it does.
Would You Buy a Used Trike from this Man? (Score:2, Interesting)