If ET Calls, Who Speaks For Humanity? 371
EagleHasLanded writes "Who speaks for humankind if ET calls on us? Paul Davies, chairman of the SETI Post-Detection Taskgroup, is a likely ambassador. But Allen Tough founded the Invitation to ETI Web site, which encourages ET to make contact via email (and also strongly discourages humans from impersonating ET). But an individual in the UK got over some of the hurdles designed to weed out hoaxers, before finally throwing in the towel."
Just in case... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not exactly rigorous, but it gets the main points across.
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Interesting)
It's not exactly rigorous, but it gets the main points across.
It's a load of bunk. (Biggest bit: A knife fight today is the same as a knife fight 10,000 years ago. Technology advances, but only to physical limits. Oh, and not only does nobody remember the Indians that Columbus met, but most Native peoples don't date themselves as "Post-Columbian" and "Pre-Columbian.")
Anyway, if an alien shows up and decides to "make contact", they'll be in one of two situations.
1: They didn't plan it, and this is an emergency or an accident. Offer help if you can, but only if they accept it. Mostly, just stay the @#$ out of their way and try not to get killed. And for the love of god, don't kill them until they've killed one of us. (Yes, that probably means that "first contact bob" would be "first trophy bob." if they're here to hunt. Sucks to be bob.)
2; They did plan it, and made contact deliberately. It doesn't take more than a day to notice that the species creating buildings and machines and launching crap into space is sentient, and they'll learn a hell of a lot more about us by watching us for another day or two rather than picking one of us at random and watching us flail around. Greet them in your common habit and vernacular FIRST, and only resort to random flailings and scribbling on the floor if they don't respond.
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Ants and termites build cities, and beavers build dams, and we don't seem to care.
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Ants and termites build cities, and beavers build dams, and we don't seem to care.
That's because they don't build cities and damns. You show me an ant, termite or beaver who can build a damn and a city, and I'll show you something I'd like to give to the aliens.
Re:Just in case... (Score:4, Interesting)
Duncan Lunan from ASTRA [easynet.co.uk] wrote a couple of books on the subject in the early 1970s and basically fleshed out the possibilities you outlined, going through various permutations, including ones where we initiate contact, either inside our own solar system or outside. It was an interesting read but don't know if the books are accessible on the web yet.
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And I totally agree that they'll know we're sentient, and odds are good they'll be able to have perfect translators pretty damn quickly once they've come into contact with our radio transmissions, if they're ab
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Funny)
And I totally agree that they'll know we're sentient
"Sure, the bipeds on the third planet are merely sentient, they're not >äðûæé< . Thus, it's perfectly okay to anal-probe them; we have every right as an >äðûæé< species."
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Insightful)
Someone mod the parent up.
Is there any particular reason an alien species would be any nicer to other species than we are to other species?
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Insightful)
Ditto.
Let's hope that they won't judge us on that. If they do, we're pretty well screwed.
“You are capable of such wonderful dreams,and such terrible nightmares.”
Hell, we can't even treat other members of our OWN species decently, as a whole, much less other species.
Some say we're in our adolescence, I'd argue we're still in the terrible two's" stage, where, as a species, we haven't developed a learned sense of ethics...
SB
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Insightful)
We regularly leave our planet by use of technology and have harnessed the power of the atom?
That's not to say it's enough, but those are at least two things that would probably differentiate us quite a bit.
But if we're not 6-dimensional beings and don't *smell* the *pretty* colors, we might seem like a talking dog or a counting horse. They might be amazed by the dog (but will never consider it an equal), but they'll only be temporarily amused by the horse until they wanted to ride somewhere, make some glue, or eat horse-chops.
Strange magical physics don't even have to be in play; the aliens only have to believe that quality X is more important than intelligence (or that quality X denotes intelligence), and if we don't have it, then we're defacto non-intelligent.
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Not only that, but the next aliens that come along may believe the exact opposite, so trying to custom-craft your reactions is a mistake no matter how you plan it.
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Strange magical physics don't even have to be in play; the aliens only have to believe that quality X is more important than intelligence (or that quality X denotes intelligence), and if we don't have it, then we're defacto non-intelligent.
John Varley wrote some novels with this as part of the back story. The aliens felt that there were only two types of intelligence: cetaceans and a kind living in gas giants. They kicked humans off earth and left them to live like rats on the moon and other inhospitable places. In The Ophichi Hotline [amazon.com] he even imagined us getting in contact with other species who had suffered the same fate.
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It's a load of bunk. (Biggest bit: A knife fight today is the same as a knife fight 10,000 years ago. Technology advances, but only to physical limits. Oh, and not only does nobody remember the Indians that Columbus met, but most Native peoples don't date themselves as "Post-Columbian" and "Pre-Columbian.")
Um... No.
In fact if an Native American met a crusader knight wearing chainmail, he's have a hard time killing him with a knife.
Actually, during Columbus's time, they still wore plate armor much of the tim
Re:Just in case... (Score:4, Interesting)
3) They might be criminals, political refugees, or any other "undesirable" on the run, who see our remote backward world as a good hideout (this falls somewhere between "planned" and "seredipitous" at least for them). Maybe the scum of their species, maybe the oppressed. Maybe they'll think "Cool, suckers to exploit!" or bring down their version of the law on our heads for harbouring a fugitive.
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So it's 1620 all over again, but this time we're all Red Indians and the pilgrims are green?
Watch out for the blankets.
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"Not exactly rigorous"... it doesn't withstand two seconds of critical thought.
The aliens will be quite used to things flailing like crazy and trying to get away... They know this is what non-self-aware organisms do.
Well, except plants -- those stand still. So standing still or moving tells them nothing.
The fact that you're still alive will mean they're going to allow us to exist.
Tell that to any barnyard animal. Maybe they're not hungry yet?
I mean, I'll agree that fighting is probably futile, but you never know. We don't know how to defend against a nuke, but we do actually know about enough to visit other planets, if we were willing to expend the resources and wait the insane amonut of time.
They won't speak your language, and won't be able to mess with your thoughts.
No good reason to believe
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That's pretty good; also pretty funny, it's obvious they were going for the humor angle. I do like the math bit.
One caveat; any aliens that meet us here on Earth (which is where it will happen, at least for some decades, more likely centuries) will likely have been watching our radio/tv/digital output and have a pretty good idea of what is going on, if they can decode our transmissions. (I think it's likely they will be able to, any aliens with the technology to travel across interstellar s
Re:Just in case... (Score:5, Insightful)
any aliens with the technology to travel across interstellar space would have to have some pretty phenomenal computer technology
The only thing safe to assume about aliens is that they will be ALIEN. As in, completely unlike us in every way. It's a mistake to terrestrialize ETs, let alone anthropomorphize them. Their concept of 'communication', let alone their culture and motivations, will likely be be so wildly different than ours as to be beyond our ability to even conceive of it. Hell, we have a hard enough time understanding and communicating with other HUMAN cultures. Aliens, especially aliens sophisticated enough to cross interstellar distances? Forget about it.
Re:Just in case... (Score:4, Insightful)
I see your point, but if there are aliens who are capable of traveling across interstellar space and navigating it without computer technology of some sort, there will likely never EVER be any common ground with us to communicate thru.
We rely on our technology for communications, more and more so the more technically advanced we get. Any form of communication has to have some sort of symbolic nature, otherwise it's not communication.
Like I said elsewhere, unless they communicate via telepathy, there has to be at least some common ground, technology wise. However, just because WE can't understand THEM, doesn't mean that THEY won't be able to understand US.
At the risk of providing fodder for fruitcakes, technically they could already be living amongst us, and we'd never know they were there. I am familiar with Clarke's Law wrt advanced technology...
I think it much more likely that any aliens who would go to the trouble of trying to contact us - as a species - via a means we are familiar with would use the means of communication we are capable of detecting.
Otherwise there wouldn't be much point in attempting to do so.
SB
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DNA forming by accident is already a longshot as it is
As far as I am aware, the formation of organic life has been generally considered extremely likely since, like, the fifties [wikipedia.org]. It's even been shown that organic molecules are relatively common in deep space [space.com].
Its too late. (Score:5, Insightful)
Our TV broadcasts have already spoken for us, and it wasn't a good message.
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Re:Its too late. (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't that in the eye of the beholder?
We're us - and though we do so with a lot of falling down and getting back up again, we generally strive to better ourselves and our fellow man all the time.
If that makes us unworthy of a casual visit, or more worthy of evaporation, by some alien civilization, so be it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6ya7ZRlrEo [youtube.com] - "My Way", Frank Sinatra.
As it stands - we don't know -what- a particular alien civilization might enjoy... perhaps they're big fans of WW2 and want to include us in an intergalactic battle. Or maybe they just love Britney Spears and will come over to abduct all of the * Got Talent, * Idol, * Factor show people. Or maybe they'll catch one of the many talks from Stephen Hawking from old broadcasts and think it would be a jolly good time to sit down and have a chat with him via their neural interface gadgetry. So there's no point in entertaining the thought of "What Would The Aliens Do?" any more than WWJD-shirts do.. just carry on doing what we're doing for our own (planet's) good.
Re:Its too late. (Score:5, Funny)
"This is ancient Earth's most foolish program! Why does Ross, the largest Friend, simply not eat the others?"
Neighbours. Everybody needs good NEIGHBOURS (Score:2)
I consider that pretty fucking bad, but you know. It could be worse.
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I can't say I blame this woman [theaustralian.com.au]. Twelve years of Neighbours. I wonder if they ever made her watch it?
Re:Its too late. (Score:5, Insightful)
Our TV broadcasts have already spoken for us, and it wasn't a good message.
I hear Single Female Lawyer [wikipedia.org] has some fans.
ET Will Pick.. (Score:2, Interesting)
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Wouldn't ET pick the ones they wanted to initiate conversations with first? Possibly the ones less likely to point a gun at them?
What do they know?
I say we put them in the middle of a joint session of Congress. That should be enough to scare them right off the planet.
Re:ET Will Pick.. (Score:5, Funny)
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Likely as that may seem there is always the possibility of some other scenario, such as that depicted in The Road Not Taken [wikipedia.org] where the aliens figure the humans are primitive and easily conquered only to discover that while humans may not yet have the tools for interstellar travel they are much more advanced in pretty much everything else, including warfare.
Re:ET Will Pick.. (Score:5, Funny)
I'm sorry, I thought they were visiting Earth.
Just say yes (Score:5, Funny)
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That, and whatever you do, do not let doves fly when the aliens land [youtube.com]!
Clearly (Score:3, Funny)
Jodie Foster!
obviously (Score:4, Funny)
if et calls we should great them with the communication of the other animals on the planet (well some of them),first. Before grating them ourselfs.
this would show them that we can appreciate the communication of other life forms, and even put that communication before the communication of ourselfs.
If we are to communicate we need to demonstrate empathy, since the only thing we know about them is that they can communicate, empathy via appreciation of the communication of other life forms on our own planet may demonstrate we can empathize with them.
This should reduce fear and hostility towards us, and aid in good relations. in respect they may attempt to empathise with us a little more.
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Dear God man, they're aliens, not hippies or PETA members. A good firm handshake and slap on the back. Sheesh.
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wouldn't you smile before a good firm handshake and slap on the back.
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for those of you who aren't autistic spectrum.
a smile make you appear friendly, being friendly is appreciating and empathizing.
a smile show this because it induces a sense of warmth and pleasure in someone else.
it demonstrates appreciation though empathy.
you may or may not have relised that (EDIII seemed to over look it), but try it next time your on a date, or going for a job.
Re:obviously (Score:5, Insightful)
But in other cases, baring your teeth is a sign that you're planning to bite down on their neck.
Humans smile to relax each other. Some animals use it are a threat. We wouldn't know what showing teeth means in an alien's culture.
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Chimpanzee's smile as a form of aggression and warning. And they're practically our siblings as far as genetics is concerned. We're talking ALIENS here. If a smile is that radically different between two species so closely related, what the hell kind of message would it mean for an organism that's not even FROM Earth?
Re:obviously (Score:4, Insightful)
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wouldn't you smile before a good firm handshake and slap on the back.
Oh yeah, bear your teeth, seize their forelimb, then strike them between the main arm joints. That'll give them a warm reception. Or make them shit right on the landing ramp...
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This is a nonsense (Score:5, Funny)
Do not accept High Beyond protocol packets (Score:2, Funny)
I've read my sci-fi and I know how dangerous alien email can be.
I vote for.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Morgan Freeman.
Re:I vote for.... (Score:4, Informative)
Morgan Freeman.
There are only two main reasons anyone would bother to contact us: curiosity, or as a prelude to invasion. Given the not inconsiderable chances of the second (if you can communicate FTL, you can probably travel that way too...) I think Gordon Freeman would be a better choice.
Bruce Campbell (Score:3, Funny)
Bruce Campbell. No matter what happens, he's seen it all before.
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Whoever answers the phone? (Score:5, Insightful)
Obviously, there's no good answer to this question. No matter who was picked, by whatever process, some group on the planet would resent it.
Personally I think Sagan had it right - we pick someone who doesn't have a religious or political agenda, is broadly educated especially in sciences, and
would be willing to perform the task.*
(Hmm... Richard Dawkins? *g*)
* No, really:
1) No religious agenda - doesn't matter whether or not the aliens have religion. If they don't, they'll likely think us backward. If they do, it's possible they will be offended by our version(s) - and it's certain that picking anyone who professes one major religion would piss off the other major religions.
2) No political agenda. I doubt I need to explain this one; the person will be speaking for ALL HUMANITY.
3) Broadly educated - in trying to understand a totally alien viewpoint, experience in many different fields would be essential.
4) ... especially in the sciences - because it's likely anyone who *could* contact us would be extremely far along in the sciences. Unless they're doing it with telepathy...
5) Volunteer, of course.
SB
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Science? Are you kidding me? We need someone well trained in diplomacy to speak on our behalf. Someone who's only trained in science won't have the requisite background in deal making, understanding different points of view, and convincing others more powerful than we not to wipe us out. Honestly, I wouldn't trust a pure scientist on any of that.
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Judging from how we treat animals that are less mentally and technologically developed than ourselves, I would argue that a very, very cute person would be the best option.
That is if ET has a sense of cuteness. Otherwise I would guess that we are what scientists technically refer to as "fucked".
Re:Whoever answers the phone? (Score:5, Insightful)
requisite background in deal making, understanding different points of view, and convincing others more powerful than we not to wipe us out
Sure they do. Nearly all scientists are familiar with the grant application process ;-)
SB
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No. Diplomats have preconceived notions that predicate on their experience negotiating between assholes with human agendas. You're almost suggesting to assign a psychologist to speak on our behalf. Shadowbearer's list of qualifications has a heavy basis in neutrality. We want that. A person who simply represents us as an average. Let the aliens who dragged themselves all this way decide if they like what we are.
No diplomats "spinning" things to make us look better than we are. I would really prefer t
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I hear that France has already preemptively surrendered to ET because of this article.
Hilarious! A one-liner about French people being quick to surrender! That joke just never gets old! It's almost as funny as the "Polish people are stupid" jokes, or the "Jewish people like money" jokes! Maybe next you could tell one about lazy Mexicans...
Take Them to Your Lizard... (Score:2)
http://wso.williams.edu/~rcarson/lizards.html [williams.edu]
That is all.
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What we really need is a major scientific break-in.
Davies, ORLY? (Score:2)
Why would we want a religious philosopher to speak to aliens on our behalf?
Re:Davies, ORLY? (Score:5, Insightful)
So, you assume that atheists are correct and that aliens, assuming they even exist would be atheists?
Personally, I suspect that's true, but I don't know. However, I see three possibilities:
Now, of those, do you really think #2 is likely? (If you do, you probably should investigate how religion arose on this planet.)
No, the likelier possibilities are option #1, in which case, any religious individual would make us seem backwards and primitive; or #3, in which case, any religion we choose to represent would likely be weird and possibly offensive to them.
Who would you suggest? An obnoxious pompous prick like Dawkins?
Funny... when I believed, I thought the same way you did. About Randi, also.
Eventually, I realized that what I saw as "arrogance" was merely the courage to stand up to popular dogmas. They were attacking things I held dear, and that made me defensive, so of course I saw them as arrogant and disruptive.
real science, rather than trying to prove the non-existence of god.
Dawkins is an evolutionary biologist, and you might notice he's also written several books about that. If you investigate what he actually does with his time, you'll probably find he spends far more time doing exactly that -- real science.
You seem to be confused into thinking that all atheists are necessarily "militant atheists", and that this would be the first thing on their minds when they encounter an alien being. That's not the concern at all. The concern is that the last thing we want is to be trying to tell an alien the "good news".
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nobody really knows how religion arose in the first place,
Well, yes and no. We have some good theories, and we've watched real religions arise fairly recently -- cargo cults being the obvious example.
The best thing we could do is present an unbiased synopsis of religion as it exists wrt humanity, and explain to them that we are all individuals and that we try to do our best in letting each and every one of us hold our own beliefs.
That's unfortunately only true for a minority of the world.
Atheists, at least so far, haven't started any wars.
The AC pointed out Stalin. There are two crucial issues here: First, no one goes to the war in the name of atheism, while they do in the name of religion. Second, the term "atheist" simply means one who is not a theist -- there is no unifying belief or dogma, no requirement that atheists be scientifically mind
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Re:Davies, ORLY? (Score:5, Interesting)
It is possible that our scientists could be mostly wrong about everything.
And pretty much every scientist out there agrees with you. It's the religious people who can't admit they're wrong, and that's the reason they shouldn't speak for us. Humility would indeed be the best practice.
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Is Richard Dawkins up to snuff with his science? I don'
Anybody but the British! (Score:5, Funny)
Please hope the Brits don't make first contact with ET, their track record [wikipedia.org] isn't so hot when it comes to handling these things...
easy answer (Score:2)
Rick Astley (Score:2, Funny)
Nobody (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't we already have someone appropriate? (Score:2, Insightful)
I mean... we have the UN right? so wouldnt' Ban Kyi Moon be the appropriate choice?
Obligatory Gary Larson (Score:2, Funny)
Hilarious as always. [hubpages.com]
applying a human solution to an alien problem (Score:2)
No one (Score:4, Insightful)
No one speaks for "humanity." Everyone speaks for themselves. But, I suppose that won't stop some sleazebag politician from claiming to speak for a few million or billion other people...
Will All The Extra-Terresterials... (Score:2)
please leave the store!
i.e. whoever's holding the mic?
Don't know...just hope it's not (Score:2)
HOLLYWOOD!!!!
It's strange no one thought of HIM! (Score:4, Funny)
The one and only...the G.O.A.T...The man who has banged every green chick from here to the Delta Quadrant...
WILLIAM SHATNER!!!
Hmmm...now i know why aliens do not dare to land...they obviously mistook ST-TOS for reality...;-)
If ET Calls, Who Speaks For Humanity? (Score:5, Insightful)
Whoever picks up the phone. Hopefully it will not be one of our "leaders".
Ban Ki-moon (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I do. (Score:5, Funny)
I do. Next question, please.
Geez Louise! Dozens of answers already and not a single one of you has suggested Kent Brockman. What is wrong with you people?!?
Well, I for one do not welcome such a cataclysmic failure in geek cred. Our insect overlords can't get here soon enough, if you ask me.
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"Our insect overlords can't get here soon enough, if you ask me."
I agree. I've heard that they taste like chicken, if you deep fry them. Mmmm-mmmm. Southern fried insect overlords - a hillbilly delight!!
Richard Gere? (Score:2)
Richard Gere, is that you?
(last 20 seconds)
http://www.searchforvideo.com/watchclip/?id=2665332 [searchforvideo.com]
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Nice to meet you. Would you kindly take me to your leader?
Re:I do. (Score:4, Funny)
Wouldn't this be a good slashdot poll? Maybe we should put kdawson in charge.
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I suggest we let ELIZA do the talking.
Why are you interested in mutilating our cows.
Re:I do. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I do. (Score:5, Funny)
Nah, I think it should be a muppet, keep'em guessing is my advice. The drummer Animal might do well, or Kermit if we'd like to appear reasonable.
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And WEAK! Better to use the guy that throws the fishes. You know he means business.
Re:I do. (Score:5, Funny)
Clearly, Sarah Palin should do the talking for us. This way, the ET's won't bother us, thinking there's no intelligent life on Earth.
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I was thinking John Boehner. Can you imagine the glee with which he's going to be made to eat his words?
List of people who should NOT contact aliens (Score:3, Interesting)
Sheezus, if this were to be continued, we'd have millions of posts, all suggesting one extra person.
I'll try and shorten it. Here's a start, anyway:
List of people who should NOT be allowed to participate in First Contact:
Politicians
Actors
Reality show participants
Tom Cruise
Jack Thompson
Elvis (Yeah, he's dead, but that doesn't stop some people)
Astrologers (of any stripe)
Fundamentalists (of any stripe)
?To be continu
Re:I do. (Score:5, Funny)
Clearly, Sarah Palin should do the talking for us.
After all, she can see outer space from her back porch.
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Meanwhile, just go about your business, but keep in mind that they are watching, and judging.
So, what you're saying is, my mom is an alien?
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Cowboy Neal as the ONLY option!
Re:Obama (Score:4, Insightful)
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Drew Barrymore?
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Perhaps ET will dress appropriately and drop himself in some backwater region and take up handyman work while talking to various local groups about stars and galaxies and destiny etc. if ET shows up, voluntarily or by force of accident.
It's just as likely that ET will have seen our broadcasts and decided this is not really the kind of neighborhood that they want to live in, never mind an occasional visit. Just the same, given mankind's penchant for xenophobia it's more likely than not that any ET who actual
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That won't work, waggling that silly finger in the air will be a dead giveaway the guy is whack-job. If you really want to scare them, how about Ronald MacDonald, he should give anyone the heebie-jeebies. But if you really want to wind them up, I vote for Alan Greenspan. One look at what he "accomplished" and they won't dare send anyone near here lest the financial contagion wipes out their entire economy. If you think quantum mechanics is weird, you ain't seen nothing like the havoc entangled econotrons ca
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No, Tom Skerritt.