Wine 1.2 Released 427
David Gerard writes "Stuck with that one Windows app you can't get rid of? Rejoice — Wine 1.2 is officially released! Apart from running pretty much any Windows application on Unix better than 1.0 (from 2008), major new features include 64-bit support, bi-directional text, and translation into thirty languages. And, of course, DirectX 9 is well-supported and DirectX 10 is getting better. Packages should hit the distros over the weekend, or you can get the source now."
Hmmmm. (Score:5, Funny)
DirectX 10 is getting better.
I wish someone would port Wine to WindowsXP.
Re:Hmmmm. (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Replacement to DOSBox? (Score:4, Interesting)
...or a Linux user. DOSEMU+FreeDOS is awesome for old apps (games still run better in DOSBox, though).
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The question was about a 20 year old app on a modern OS, not about a 20 year old app on a new version of the same OS. On *BSD and Linux, I can still run apps written for SCO UNIX or SysV, for example. I can run any of the Win3.x software I've tried under WINE on my Mac.
I can even run DOS and Commodore 64 software under emulation. Really, there's no reason not to expect 20 year old software to work. It's 5-10 year old apps that are likely to be a problem.
Re:Replacement to DOSBox? (Score:5, Interesting)
I do half my work using 1980s DTP software (Ventura GEM). Runs in XP fine full screen in glorious VGA resolution. Prints to Postscript which my HP laser can print as-is; and I can convert to to PDF if I need to exchange files with anyone.
Old software doesn't wear out; it just gets faster as hardware gets exponentially more powerful.
But I will look at running it under Wine, probably a safer bet in the long term than hoping Microsoft doesn't break it.
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Honestly, what the hell is the point of Xubuntu?
The words of a man who walks in with a predetermined opinion and never tries the actual product. Speed is a bullet point, but not a reason in itself to switch. Yes, there are a *number* of reasons to at least try out XFCE.
I just switched to XFCE recently on my netbook after being a Gnome user for 3-4 years. There are definitely reasons enough for it to exist and those reasons will amplify when Gnome 3.0 hits.
It is amazing how many gconf options for gnome are broken nowadays. Can't turn off the desktop b
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You think you're joking ... [winehq.org]
Oh just get Windows 7 (Score:3, Informative)
Seriously, I get a little tired of the "Ahhh MS has left XP behind!" types. Ok, I will give some credit initially. When Vista launched it required a heavy amount of resources for the day, and many people felt it was a poor OS (I disagree with most of their claims, but regardless). Fine, however now 7 is out. It has received large amount of acclaim as a good OS, is less resource intensive at the low end, and driver support is quite good. It is a very worthwhile upgrade, if you want to support new systems.
Als
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Re:Hmmmm. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hmmmm. (Score:4, Funny)
7 isn't bad if you turn Aero off. I'm posting this from a Windows 7 netbook, "Windows Classic" theme.
HAHA! This sounds exactly like a Linux apologist from 5 to 10 years ago.
"Linux isn't bad as long as you don't try to play anything proprietary like a flash video or avi. And as long as you buy the right sound card and video card, you'll be fine."
Re:Hmmmm. (Score:4, Insightful)
Some of us wasn't appologetical about it.
I've been a linux-only user since 1999. In that time, I've gone from KDE 1.X to 4.X (Okay, 4.x is still crap, 3.x was better :-). I've been through a huge load of linux distros (slack, debian, redhat, suse, mandrake, ubuntu, etc).
I don't regret it. I have a system I understand. I've learned way more about how computers and the internet works, than I would have if I had stayed with windows.
There certainly are things in Linux that aren't entirely up to scratch, even to this day. Sound is one of them. While there is plenty of options, they all suck in different and all non-interesting ways.
And then of course there is the problem of games. While there does exist a few, it is rather annoying to have to go through hoops with wine to get the games to run properly.
But would I switch back? I think not. The first thing I do when my computer is booted is to fire up a couple of xterms, since that's where I do most of my stuff. I can understand that not everyone wants be fiddling around in "the terminal" all the time, but that's where I feel at home. :-)
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There is nothing there that couldn't have been done in XP SP4 and almost all of that is something that was intentionally made deficient to increase sales of the new product. For example, there is a hack to install the new direct x versions on XP because there is no technical reason they can't run with full features.
"Windows 7 (and Vista?)"
If you are going to pretend those are different OS then I'm not sure we can even have a conversation.
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Except of course if you check the radio button under:
Windows Explorer -> Organize -> Folder and search options -> Search -> Always search file names and contents.
Why this is not default is probably because MS thought people won't want to search inside files for non-indexed directories.
After you choose that, searching for something searches files and contents. Searching for name:somefilename will search for "somefilename" in filenames.
Also check this [microsoft.com] out for some more advanced search syntax.
I used to use wine... (Score:5, Interesting)
Long ago when I first switched to Linux I made the decision that I would not run a dual boot environment and would instead use Wine to run my apps I NEEDED from Windows on my Linux machine.
Fast forward six months from that switch, I removed the NEEDED applications because I found better ones (hello GnuCash) and haven't used a Windows application or required Wine since then, that was almost 3 or 4 years ago now when I fully switched my desktop to Linux.
Re:I used to use wine... (Score:5, Insightful)
Gosh, you're SO L33T!
Why do you think the rest of us care?
I know its bad to feed the trolls but here's a thought...
My experience has shown me that I don't need Windows apps as much as I though I needed them, I found better alternatives and while Wine is great at some point you just have to sit back and wonder, "Is it worth it?"
I went through updates which broke previously working applications, I went through configuration edit after edit for each application to get things working and at one point just decided to look for a better way. Don't get me wrong Wine is great for beginning Linux but it really shows the flaws in many Windows programs and with closed source, you can stumble onto one at random even if you're coding to established API for compatibility.
So why my comment? I commented because I felt it showed that Wine helps break the reliance on Windows applications, it's great for transition but not for long haul requirements and I'm not commenting for the sake of commenting, a review of my account can attest to that. You however seem to enjoy placing your finger up your rear trying to tickle the back of your throat hoping something worthwhile will eventually come out of your mouth.
Too bad it is a miss today for you but thankfully, I'm at least not an anonymous coward like you.
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utorrent is working on a Linux port: http://torrentfreak.com/utorrent-for-linux-is-coming-finally-100601/ [torrentfreak.com]
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That's great for you and all, but almost every PC game that has ever been released is a testament to why Wine is still necessary (even if not necessary for some).
My words only express my experience, nothing more and nothing less.
I encourage those whom play Windows games to use Wine, to get Crossover Games and tell the game publishers, if you have a problem, call it in to support, go to their forums, make a little bit of noise showing your support for the game and your platform of choice, just don't be insane about it.
By all means use the tools available and work to make them better, give your feedback and help support those who work to support your gaming. Don't thi
Never Works Properly (Score:3, Insightful)
Apart from running pretty much any Windows application
Except the one you want to run requires about 5 hours of fucking around with Wine only to get about 70% of the functionality working and only 40% of the performance despite having being listed as GOLD PLATINUM UNOBTAINIUM in the wine-db. Hurray!
Re:Never Works Properly (Score:4, Interesting)
The summary doesn't say it runs "pretty much any Windows application", it says it runs "pretty much any Windows application better than Wine 1.0".
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I've never had problems with a program listed as "Platinum" on the newest version of wine. The problems I have are:
1. A lot of distros ship old versions of wine.
2. A lot of stuff is rated "bronze" (AKA: It might work if you're a wizard).
Re:Never Works Properly (Score:5, Interesting)
I can say with a high degree of confidence that it runs most applications flawlessly. Of course, you need to remove many of the new
Occasionally, you'll have to bring out the nerd in you and do some hacking to get games to work. For instance, it was a long process for me to get Red Alert 3 to work online and via LAN. The forums helped me a lot. It was also difficult to get Age Of Empires III to run, but I did it.
I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine. If they'd waste part of that time in contributing to the community, submitting patches, helping out in forums and irc, or simply stopping complaining, I think we'd be better.
Re:Never Works Properly (Score:5, Insightful)
"I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine."
It's because no-one complains worse than the people getting something for free.
No people complain when you over claim (Score:5, Insightful)
Wine, and in particular Wine fanboys, sell it as a sure fire way to run Windows apps on Linux. They happily point to success stories and say "See you can ditch Windows, just run your stuff in Wine! Look how well Office runs!" People then try it and discover three things:
1) It is complex as all get out. You don't just go and start Wine and run a Windows installer to put your application on. No, it is way fucking complex in many cases. Even people familiar with virtualization are amazed at how complex it gets.
2) It works poorly in many cases. A "working" app in Wine speak seems to mean "runs". It may have massive glitches. Most people take working to mean "Works fully with some minor glitches." Even so of the top apps have some rather noticeable glitches.
3) Plenty of stuff doesn't work at all, and there's no readily apparent reason. It just fails.
For example I was trying to move to a Linux desktop at work, to learn more about Linux and its working in our setup. However, being work, I had to be able to get everything done. So I tried Linux AV software and it was crap, couldn't do what I needed to do. I went and asked our Linux head if he'd be willing to help see if Wine could run Sony Vegas. He said sure. After 3 days of fairly intense work and research, he said no, he could find no way to make it run. He was pretty good too, he didn't blow this off he really tried.
So that's why people get mad. Wine shouldn't be marketed as a Windows compatibility layer. Wine is more of an experimental program that can help some Windows software run sometimes. If you want to get your hands dirty and mess around with some complex stuff, maybe it can make things happen. However it is not a friendly compatibility layer that you install and suddenly Windows apps can be run just like on Windows with ease.
People get mad because it is oversold, and because it is something they want. They hear "Windows on Linux," and get all excited. They can use Linux now and not have to sacrifice their computer experience. Then they try it and find no, they can't actually and get real angry.
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For example I was trying to move to a Linux desktop at work, to learn more about Linux and its working in our setup. However, being work, I had to be able to get everything done. So I tried Linux AV software and it was crap, couldn't do what I needed to do. I went and asked our Linux head if he'd be willing to help see if Wine could run Sony Vegas. He said sure. After 3 days of fairly intense work and research, he said no, he could find no way to make it run. He was pretty good too, he didn't blow this off he really tried.
The best place to check is the WineHQ application compatibility database. It'd have told your sysadmin in much less than three days that people have gotten it to run [winehq.org] but "Installing this was a mission though." and the best anyone's been able to give it a silver rating. The last test report is from almost a year ago though, it'd be very nice if your sysadmin took five minutes to write up a test report to tell others what he found. Anything less than a gold rating should not be used in a production environmen
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The best place to check is the WineHQ application compatibility database.
The WineHQ compatibility database is nearly fucking useless because it continually reports apps as working flawlessly when they don't even install. This is probably because wine is a moving target and they occasionally break something that has been working because Windows is such a minefield. Still, probably 90% of the games I've tried on Wine that said they worked great don't work at all. Wine is cool if you want to run Photoshop or something, but I have had to keep a Windows installation and a virtual mac
Re:No people complain when you over claim (Score:4, Insightful)
Really? in my experience nearly all mentions of Wine are along the lines of "hey, it's fairly hit-or-miss but perhaps Wine can help you, give it a try" rather than "use Wine, it can run every Windows app flawlessly!". Hell, even Wine's own website [winehq.org] states that it doesn't run everything so where you got the hype from I have no idea.
And in Wine's favor, my experience with them have been that nearly all apps either work out-of-the-box or don't at all. The ones that work-but-require-a-day-of-editing-config-files are more of a rarity that can be safely ignored by normal people since that issue will most likely be fixed by next version anyways. And if you absolutely *need* some specific app right here right now, well, you should've used VirtualBox to begin with.
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"I am only sorry that so many people end up bashing Wine."
It's because no-one complains worse than the people getting something for free.
My time is not free. So it's not free if I waste my time trying to get it to work after being told that it runs almost flawlessly only to find that it's going to take a significant investment of time and require me to become an expert hacker on the project. You see giving something away for free doesn't entitle a developer to be rude, arrogant, condescending abusive or a liar. I've seen all of these behaviours from developers giving something away for "free".
Re:Never Works Properly (Score:4, Funny)
*ducks*
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While I find Wine really impressive and congratulate all the contributors on what has been achieved, one of the persistent problems with Wine is how unpredictable it is. An applications might work flawlessly on one system and be unusable on another. My impression is that this has improved a lot since Wine 1.0 and the policy that newer Wine releases shall not break applications that were working before, and I count that as one of the most significant improvements ever to have been made. Still, if you take a
Are IE 7 or 8 useable? (Score:2)
Re:Are IE 7 or 8 useable? (Score:5, Funny)
IE 7 and 8 are not usable, but that has nothing to do with Wine.
Re:Are IE 7 or 8 useable? (Score:4, Insightful)
As we're referring to IE, the antecedent of your proposition is false therefore the consequent does not apply.
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Then it might be time to change banks.
I know I would if my bank forced me to use IE.
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Get an account with a real bank and keep the crappy account. Deposit checks and then transfer out to your real bank, transfer in when you need cash (or just use your debit).
In the modern world where you can use your debit card pretty much anywhere for any purchase of 50 cents or more with no fees how often do you really need cash? For that matter, unless you are running a business, how often do you receive cash and checks? Or really cash, you can mail check deposits.
If you absolutely have to have a physical
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Google ies4linux...
It's a bundle of wine designed specifically to run various versions of ie.
That said, can't you move to another bank? all the banks i've used here work fine with both safari and firefox (havent tried accessing them from anything else).
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Ies4Linux is largely unmaintained and obsolete and will break your wineprefix. Install ie6 or ie7 using winetricks. (Preferably each to their own wineprefix.)
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Google ies4linux... It's a bundle of wine designed specifically to run various versions of ie. That said, can't you move to another bank? all the banks i've used here work fine with both safari and firefox (havent tried accessing them from anything else).
Don't do this, the correct way to run IE these days is to get winetricks and run it, then tick the box for either ie6 or ie7, and then run it with "wine iexplore"
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Is your bank really IE only? Browser spoofing with an extension doesn't work?
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Obvious solution: Virtual box under linux will let you run whatever windows you want. Its graphic drivers are not good enough for most new 3D games (yet), but it certainly will let you do online banking...
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Change banks.
This means you can't even see that stuff on your smartphone.
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IE 7 installs in Winetricks but doesn't work too well as an app.
If they really don't support a current Firefox, it's time to find a new bank and tell them why.
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Finally! (Score:2)
I can play Solitare on linux!
Oh, wait....
StarCraft (Score:2)
Re:StarCraft (Score:5, Informative)
I saw recently that a fix went in to make shadows work correctly in SC2. I guess that probably means it works ok.
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Both Starcraft II and WoW:Cataclysm are getting a through workout by the Blizzard beta testers. So you can expect they will continue to work fine.
A recent Wow patch even found a kernel bug. Bad handling of debug trap instruction.
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So um... (Score:2)
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Wine doesn't do .NET at all, AFAIK
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I haven't used Wine in years, but according to the wine listing, at least some versions of .NET are fully working.
That being said, while overall the "Microsoft" implementation is more complete (obviously...), the Mono version has many APIs and goodies missing from the "official" version (such as a vastly superior I/O library). In the cases where these libraries can work on the standard version of .NET, it is not uncommon for .NET developers to use them. But not all do.
The mono Reflection lib is another one.
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It does .NET 2.0 somewhat, .NET 3.5 hardly at all and Mono. Mind you, Mono does .NET somewhat. I wouldn't expect too much of .NET in Wine, but it's worth a try.
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I'd be much obliged if you could point out a source for that.
Everything I can find on the subject indicates that you can use Mono, or you can use Wine to install MS .NET. I see nothing about Wine having it's own implementation, and it would seem to be rather redundant.
1.2 already? (Score:3, Interesting)
Wow, brings memories of the pre-1.0 phase. Do you remember when only the most basic apps would run in WINE and required a lot of tweaking? Nowadays I can run most apps but Game Maker (Like Hydorah, Spelunky, etc) based games. Even painting and music apps, or games like Touhou or other doujin arcade games work practically out of the box (mostly requiring directx 9 runtimes). I don't play much mainstream, but I have been satisfied with my indie/arcade gaming needs and WINE.
This is only going to get better with time, and I am kind of happy about it. Years ago I had to use virtualbox or use my laptop to run simplistic apps reliably, and it's not the case anymore (in my use case at least, you know, generalizing, anecdotal evidence, your mileage may vary, etc)
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Do you remember when only the most basic apps would run in WINE and required a lot of tweaking?
Yep. I remember thinking it would never reach v 1.0, just approach it asymptotically until we were running Half Life 10 on v0.9.9999999.
Quickbooks? Quicken? (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not even going to check the website. Pretty much everything worth running already works, except Quickbooks. That's the game killer for real desktop adoption. I completely understand why it's nearly impossible to make it happen, but It would sure be nice if Quickbooks completely worked.
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Steam (Score:3, Interesting)
Hopefully the wine project and Valve are working together on this and that linux version of steam pops up soon. I installed DAO via steam in linux the other day and there was an intermediate step about configuring wine (in the windows version of steam) that gives me some hope.
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Well, that and copious amounts of prayer.
Re:Every windows application (Score:5, Insightful)
I think Wine needs a usability team. Some kind of gui/tooling to make things easier for newbies to Wine.
Re:Every windows application (Score:5, Funny)
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....with a GUI front end....
Built with Visual Basic I hope!!
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Re:Every windows application (Score:4, Informative)
buy crossover. That is why they sell it.
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That is exactly why Codeweavers [codeweavers.com] makes money. And it is not even that expensive ...
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That is exactly why Codeweavers [codeweavers.com] makes money. And it is not even that expensive ...
Yeah it's basically me [yokozar.org] and the Vineyard author working on Wine usability at this point (Hopefully I can get Vineyard more or less finalized for inclusion in Ubuntu 10.10)
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Right, along with a native windows manager. Perhaps some kind of "task-bar" where we can see those windows and what they are doing. Of course we'll need a "task-manager" to control them. We'll also need some way to explore all those files, perhaps a "explorer." I'd also like a built in browser, or some way to "explore" the "internet." When we're done we should change the name of the project to reflect its new capabilities. How about a new acronym:
W ine
I is
N not a
D dumb
O open-source
W windows
S simulator
Yes
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The vineyard project is working on that, I believe: http://vineyardproject.org/
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PlayOnLinux makes a decent effort, but I don't think it helps WINE development much. It's basically a simple way to run predefined installation scripts that install into separate prefixes with different wine versions and custom settings. If you want to file any bugs, use vanilla wine. CodeWeavers sells a version that does pretty much the same thing and there your money mostly goes into making wine better. On the one side I like the POL approach as you don't get the %&%/%"#% regressions, the downside is
Play On Linux (Re:Every windows application) (Score:2, Informative)
Just the other day i discovered Play On Linux [playonlinux.com] which fits this need.
While games are a primary feature it includes support for many of the common apps as well.
In addition to apps with built in support you can find scripts in their forum for recent versions of Dreamweaver, Photoshop, and the like
.
Re:Every windows application (Score:5, Insightful)
You want Crossover.
(Buying Crossover funds Wine, by the way - half the Wine devs work for Codeweavers.)
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http://www.wine-doors.org/ [wine-doors.org] (i've never used it.)
Site returns:
"Very very broken and I don't have time to fix it."
Which pretty much says it all.
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Oh quit w(h)ining already.
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My copy of World of Warcraft (from Classic / Vanilla to WotLK) has never seen a Windows system thanks to Wine.
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Windows for $10? Where?
Besides, if it runs, it's faster to run the app on Wine than on a VM. Personally, for the random app I might need to run, Wine has been flawless.
Besides, Wine is more than the binary: winelib is an important part, as it allows programmers to port Windows software more easily, if they didn't start the project with portability in mind.
Re:Any success stories with Wine (Score:4, Informative)
AFAIK Wine and Cedega are still ahead of virtual machines in terms of graphics drivers and gaming. Wine is far from dead.
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Yea, you could _maybe_ find a copy of Windows 98 for $10...which isn't a bad idea, but I find that the apps that will run on that are also the apps than run flawlessly on Wine. Or Dosbox. Unless it's a pirated copy, there's no way in hell you're getting WinXP, Vista, or 7 for $10. More like $100+. And if you're gonna go pirated, you might as well just go to TPB and get it free.
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Yea, you could _maybe_ find a copy of Windows 98 for $10...which isn't a bad idea, but I find that the apps that will run on that are also the apps than run flawlessly on Wine
Ironically, I have difficulty running apps that old on my setup, because win16 is broken on macosx.
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One valuable aspect of Wine, particular the major releases like 1.2, is that it provides an API that developers can target to easily create Linux versions of their Windows programs. As nice as it would be if developers would make a fully native port of their application for Linux, it's often more practical to get something that works passably by tweaking an existing program to work with Wine. Sometimes these can even be compiled against Winelib [winehq.org] to create an ELF binary.
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Heck, even ~80% of the steam games I've tried have worked without any tweaking needed.
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>>>I raid 25/10's under wine with no problem
Think WINE 1.2 will run Netscape ISP's Dialup program or Web Accelerator? Last time I tried Wine crashed on both of these these programs. It also didn't run any Internet Explorer more advanced than IE6.
Anticipated question:
"You're still on dialup?"
Yes because I can't afford Cricket's $40/month bill you insensitive clod! /end meme. And also because I can't take my DSL with me when traveling. Plus it makes for a nice backup when the DSL fails.
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Tether to your cell phone.
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"I can't afford Cricket's $40/month bill you insensitive clod!", I assume that means his phone doesn't have a data plan.
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The winetricks script installs IE7 now. The app itself works pretty badly, but it works well enough to check rendering or provide a genuine MSHTML.
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Ahahaha. I mean that the app interface doesn't render properly and it's a bit weird at times.
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A number of Touhou games work, and Starcraft works. What else do you need?
Mass Effect 2 (Score:2)
I'm running Mass Effect 2 quite well.
Ubuntu 9.10 + Nvidia drivers.
Get steam and download a demo for a game if you want to see if it works for you.
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Steam and source engine games are coming to linux (native, no wine required) "soon". I don't know if that means this year or later.
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No idea about Steam, but I used to use Vent for WoW on wine without too many problems. Took a while to configure it properly, but it was more a problem of configuring audio on Wine than configuring audio for Vent (i.e. audio wasn't working for any apps). The fact that I have several soundcards didn't help...
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Steam and source games run great in wine, I have been playing them that way for years. They are even officially supported if you pay for crossover.
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I haven't tried it for recent games, but VMWare and VirtualBox both support 3D graphics in Windows VMs. VirtualBox is a little more involved to set up, though, and uses the Wine3D library (which only supports DX 8/9).
I have a VMWare Windows XP install just for playing old pre-DX8 Windows games.
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Virtual Machines are slow, no matter what. They require a windows license and they suck when it comes to D3D and even OpenGL. Wine fixes that. It is POSIX-compatible, AFAIK, and it is an excellent study case. It helps people migrate to differet OS/es and it doesn't eat up half your RAM just to launch a crapload of services that come in your typical Windows install