Nokia Sells Qt 193
Google85 writes "Now that Nokia has shifted to a Windows Phone-centric smartphone strategy, it's only natural for the company to divest itself of responsibility with regard to the Qt framework. It has been announced Digia will acquire the Qt commercial licensing and services business from Nokia, including the transfer of some 3,500 desktop and embedded customers actively using Qt today."
So much for plan B... (Score:5, Insightful)
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But I'm a KDE user you insensitive clod!
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You mean... But I'm the KDE user you insensitive clod!
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:4, Interesting)
QT's customers are developers who licence QT commercial edition, not end users. This includes companies such as Opera and Google who's products are used by millions of people.
But I'm sure you knew that already.
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I'm more concerned about the trolling that will result
What about the TrollTeching?
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All 350 of us have 10 desktops apiece. That's easily 3500 users. One is for regular day-to-day use, one is for running my webbrowser in a clean state to reduce tracking, while the other 8 are for testing hangs, crashes, and other bugs, with clean .kde directories.
(I keed... I love my KDE SC 4.6.1 environment. And my wife and four-year-old daughter don't mind 4.5.5 on their machine.)
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One of capitalism's many problems is that corporations are run by capitalistic humans, and such humans concern themselves by definition with rational self-interest.
The huge bonus from completing a deal which is extremely risky in the long term ('sup banking crisis?) mean that any fallout will be of no consequence to those responsible for completing the deal.
It doesn't matter that history has shown over and over that Microsoft are consistent and excellent at assassinating their bedfellows. All that matters i
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And the path that they were taking earlier was going to be super successful right? They failed bigtime at Meego with multiyear delays and instead of slipping into irrelevance are making a good try.
> It doesn't matter that history has shown over and over that Microsoft are consistent and excellent at assassinating their bedfellows
Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ? Even in the software space, they have "assassinated" companies by making better software(if they don't they fail, see Microsoft Money vs. Quicke
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ahem.... PlaysForSure?
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MeeGo has existed for just over a year, and is still underway. Nokia's failure was entirely internal and resulted in them obstructing the growth of Maemo. Don't point and MeeGo and say "it has failed" when you actually mean Nokia.
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Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ?
All of those vendors also sell Linux devices. And all but Sony actively support Linux. If Redmond Washington fall off into the ocean tomorrow, they still have viable product, especially Sony. Nokia, on the other hand will have nothing.
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And the path that they were taking earlier was going to be super successful right?
Why do you trolls have to phrase it as an either/or situation? Windows Phone 7 is a flop [computerworld.com] and Nokia hitched their wagon to it. There were other options. [msn.com]
Like HP, Dell, Asus, Acer, Sony ?
Yeah, their Windows lap dogs are doing reasonably well fighting over the scraps.
Umm, if Android was chosen, won't Nokia be fighting for the 'scraps' with Motorola, HTC, Samsung, Sony, etc. as you put it? Be consistent!
Atleast MS was offering them a better deal because it's a nascent platform, Google's wouldn't even care much at this point. And I thought Goldman Sachs analysts were riled on here? Unless it's to suit you I guess. Anyway, Nokia jumping on might make it
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But Maemo was not. And they were just merging it with Moblin to make MeeGo.
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One of capitalism's many problems...
Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
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One of capitalism's many problems...
Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
Probably because giving up your capital doesn't get you out of capitalism. It only makes your position inside capitalism worse.
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One of capitalism's many problems...
Why is it that people that rail against capitalism are steadfastly resistant to giving up all of their own capital?
Probably because giving up your capital doesn't get you out of capitalism. It only makes your position inside capitalism worse.
Oh, sure, it will get you "out of" capitalism. Just don't confuse capitalism with banking. "Capital" is just having a way to get food for dinner without spending your day gathering food. If you don't like that lifestyle, just give it up and live hand-to-mouth.
All systems in the civilized world use capitalism. The question is should individuals be allowed to control their own capital, or just a few select individuals?
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It's a problem insofar as one's "rational self-interest" can mean "burn in Hell, the rest of you". A sociopath may well be rationally self-interested.
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Um, sociopaths generally ARE rationally self-interested, as a rule, and much more so than other people. That's the problem with them. The rest of us have morality, so if there's an action that we could do to benefit ourselves, but which will hurt other people, we generally won't do it. A sociopath won't consider the other people, so he'll just do it.
Sociopaths who are smart tend to do very well in life, because they don't have to worry about that morality stuff slowing them down. So they rise up in soci
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:4, Insightful)
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It's way too predictable. The person in charge of Nokia has a LOT of Microsoft stock and no Nokia stock, or so I've read. It was this that upset Nokia employees the most -- it was clear from the beginning where this person's interests would lie. And so now it is all coming to pass.
And it's not like Microsoft's previous dealings with phone makers were resulted in anything better. I seem to recall a story from years ago when Microsoft was initially trying to get a phone making partner to work with them --
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Why do you think the board hired him in the first place in place of the local talent and VPs ? They obviously knew by that time that Meego was a failed project and they had to go in the new direction. They probably decided by then that WP7 or Android was the way to go and hired the new boss accordingly.
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Gee, hire MS drone, big surprise when he decides to "standardize" on MS software. Who could have predicted that?
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So they decided that having failed in the mobile market, they would tie up with MS who also failed, and the combination would be a winner!
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No, I didn't know that actually. The last I heard was as I stated. This is news to me.
So whooops! I was wrong.
Yeah, I would rather see Nokia going Android than Windows. Sure Nokia would be competing in a much more difficult market teeming with competition, but it's better than dying. Every Windows phone I have seen to date has sucked. Even "typical end users" found them intolerable.
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Re:So much for plan B... (Score:5, Informative)
Elop already sold [reuters.com] all MS stock and bought 150K Nokia stock on 17th of February.
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Shame on you trying to sully a perfectly good conspiracy theory with facts...this is /. you should know better.
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:4, Funny)
The fact just reinforces another conspiracy theory: Nokia is poised to fail and MS is going to buy it for the pennies.
Why else Elop would invest into stock of the failing company?
P.S. For every fact, one can always find even more twisted conspiracy theory. ;)
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Because now the shares are cheap. And gives more power to Elop.
Nearing collapse, to avoid liquidation, to take Nokia over, MS would buy all the Nokia's shares. And during such takeovers the price normally is set slightly higher than the market one.
P.S. The whole point of conspiracy theories is that they do not have to many any sense at all ;)
He made Nokia's stock drop 25% on the 11th (Score:2)
8.5 billion usd of value wiped off the market capitalisation just before he bought. Quite impressive.
Wouldn't have liked to be an existing shareholder though...
And still dropping... Good job!
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:4, Insightful)
I guess they are really going "all in" on Windows mobile. Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent on a single outside vendor with a track record for not caring about partners.
'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:5, Insightful)
'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.
It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.
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'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.
It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.
It's death of Nokia as a respected brand, sooner or later it will be death of Nokia entirely.
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'Kinda risky' is putting it mildly. Watching Nokia is like watching an alcoholic drinking themselves to death. It's tragic.
I doubt it's death, so much as transformation. Before the announcement Nokia was an innovator producing distinct hardware & software. After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC. Perhaps it's cheaper to do, but at the end of the day Nokia's brand will be severely tarnished.
It's also worth noting that Nokia is the only manufacturer to bet the farm on a single phone OS vendor. LG, Samsung and HTC all have their fingers in many pies (e.g. WP7, Android, Bada, Brew). It seems like a good way to hedge if the WP7 ship sinks which is entirely possible.
It's death of Nokia as a respected brand, sooner or later it will be death of Nokia entirely.
I'll argue that Nokia was already on it's death bed (as a respected brand), they were completely missing in the smart phone market, which is the market you need to be in if you want to be a respected cell phone manufacturer brand. Yes, they were working on neat products, but it seemed that they were quite a bit away from shipping (and being new, they carried a lot of risk as well).
I think that Nokia was forced to going third party, where the choices are Android and WP7. think going with WP7 was a good i
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I'll argue that Nokia was already on it's death bed (as a respected brand), they were completely missing in the smart phone market, which is the market you need to be in if you want to be a respected cell phone manufacturer brand. Yes, they were working on neat products, but it seemed that they were quite a bit away from shipping (and being new, they carried a lot of risk as well).
Nokia did have smart phone offerings such as the C7. The C7 has been praised for its hardware and the software is tolerable but most reviews suggest Symbian is just poor by comparison to iOS or Android.
I really don't understand why they didn't just dump Symbian for Android. They could have skinned it to look like Symbian, maybe even include a Symbian / QT runtime so apps still work, and integrate Ovi in there too. Then they'd have a modern smart phone with legacy support and they'd be back in the game wh
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:4, Interesting)
WTF!
The good bit of Symbian - uses orders of magnitude less resources that the competition.
The bad bit - the UI from hell.
And you suggest putting a Symbian UI on Android?
Like I said, WTF.
(Check out SBP mobile shell for Symbian to see what could have been done if Nokia weren't totally fucked up. Look at it running on a low-end piece of junk like the 5320 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZtKTOTus7s [youtube.com] ).
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WTF are you talking about ? They're not getting any cash : http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/debunk-elop-never-said-microsoft-is-paying-nokia-billions-of-do/ [engadget.com]
I think it's pretty obvious that Nokia are being given hundreds of millions, possibly billions in order to transition to Windows Phone 7. Companies don't make such radical u-turns and run straight into their enemy's camp without a large financial incentive behind it.
That doesn't mean Nokia are being paid in cold cash. It might be in the form of licence fee waivers, marketing assistance, premium developer support, advertising revnues, app store revenues / waivers, server licences etc.
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They're not getting any cash : http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/debunk-elop-never-said-microsoft-is-paying-nokia-billions-of-do/ [engadget.com]
That article is pure speculation. We don't know what Nokia is getting.
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Sorry, I have to call bullshit here.
Nokia died as a reputable brand when they kept trying to sell their pieces of junk as smartphones. They wanted in on the iPhone market but really couldn't bring anything other than rehashes of a dumbphone with browsers.
I really think Nokia made a terrible decision throwing everything behind WP7. As was stated by GGP, Nokia has cirrhosis and still visits the pub every night.
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:4, Interesting)
After the announcement they become one of Microsoft's bitches pumping out handsets which are substantially similar to the likes coming out from LG / Samsung / HTC.
Not quite. There's no "dedicated" WP7 vendor so far - all of the companies you've listed mostly do Android phones (Samsung is also pushing its Bada on low-cost phones); WP is the odd one in their lineup. Nokia, meanwhile, could become the maker of WP phones - much like HTC did back in the day when they rode the WinMo wave. The trick is in knowing when to jump off.
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Hardware guidelines mostly define the baseline, and can be higher. IIRC the only restriction on that is screen resolution, which is fixed at 800x480 (though app developers were already warned to expect a higher second option coming eventually, and should code their stuff accordingly). Oh yes, and ARM as an architecture. It seems to me that there's still a lot of leeway there if one wants to "innovate".
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I doubt it's death, so much as transformation.
Both can be right - death is a transformation as well.
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I doubt it's death, so much as transformation.
Both can be right - death is a transformation as well.
Death is also quite stable, a goal Microsoft is striving for with this. :)
Re:So much for plan B... (Score:5, Informative)
Well, Nokia still owns Qt... Digia is only handling the commercial software licensing and professional services for Qt. Basically, Digia are licensed to sell the product, but Nokia still owns and develops it in-house.
Not exactly going "all in".
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They sold the part that makes money and kept the part that costs money. I'm not sure how long that kind of arrangement can last, at least insofar as they actually plan to continue developing Qt.
They may not be all in yet, but the pot odds are going to push them in before the end of the hand.
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Remember, there CEO is a softie, and due to the nature of the laws over there, is not able to own any sizable amount of stock in the company. All of his stock is in Microsoft. I think it is reasonable to say if WM7 fails, Microsoft stock will take a hit. Right now all of is value and worth is in Microsoft stock. Plus he has drank the MS tainted kool-aid for years. Any technology not created in Redmond is NOT good technology....unless Microsoft can buy it.
As a good general rule of thumb. You should not have
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I'm happy to see they are not killing it outright but time will tell if the new owner isn't also a Microsoft "friend" and pulls the plug or does something effectively the same, ie m
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Either that, or it's the new CEO getting rid of as much of his predecessor's legacy as possible(and since it's a sale, it looks like a + in the books) even to the long-term detriment of the company.
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You are kidding right? This was actually a takeover of Nokia by Microsoft. There is no "outside vendor."
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I am pretty sure the new CEO can get his old job at Microsoft back in case this one goes bust. So at least one person at Nokia still has his plan B.
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Kinda risky making your entire company totally dependent
Yes and no. In publicly traded companies, perception is freqently more important than reality. From a public investor's perspective, showing you're fully committed to Windows rather than half in with hedged bets, can go a long, long ways toward ensuring investor confidence. That's not to say it necessarily worked, but chances are, that's at least part of the equation.
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I wouldn't go as far as some, and claim that ALL deals with MS are expensive to the one making the deal, but there are a large number of cases where they have "stolen" IP of various sorts (though never trademarks) via either tricky contracts, or just outright. A small enough company doesn't have much hope in defending itself against MS. Even if they win, they lose. (The court damages never cover the real damages.) Several of these cases have made the news, and when one figures that most companies would
They sort of had to (Score:5, Informative)
(For those of you who don’t know what it is, the KDE Free Qt Foundation is what we call a “poison pill” for Trolltech: should we ever stop releasing open source versions of Qt, the foundation is given the right to unilaterally release the last version of Qt under the BSD license.
So, why not get some $$$ while you can, right?
Re:They sort of didn't have to (Score:3)
I have no idea what Nokia expected to do with Qt to be honest.
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What Does Poison Pill Mean?
A defensive strategy used by a corporation to discourage a hostile takeover by another company. Poison pills are used to make the target company less attractive to the acquirer. There are two types of poison pills: (1) A flip-in allows existing shareholders (except the acquirer) to buy more shares at a discount. (2) A flip-over allows stockholders to buy the acquirer's shares at a discounted price after the merger.
So definitely not a poison pill
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That was the definition when the concept was first created but it has been used in many other ways since.
Now it is more generally a clause in a contract or agreement that ensures a particular behaviour or outcome by outlining the penalty if that condition is not satisfied.
So in this case it is a poison pill.
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What does that agreement say about the case where they start releasing versions that contain features patented by another company, but which they have an agreement with such that they won't get sued...but nobody else is protected? I'd bet that that counts as releasing an open source version, even if you don't dare use it.
This was one of the considerations in the wording of the GPL3.
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What does that agreement say about the case where they start releasing versions that contain features patented by another company, but which they have an agreement with such that they won't get sued...but nobody else is protected? I'd bet that that counts as releasing an open source version, even if you don't dare use it.
This was one of the considerations in the wording of the GPL3.
That would still be a violation of the GPL v2, as it would be a restriction on downstream recipients ability to do anything they want with the code, including, but not limited to, distribution of the code and compiling and running it for any purpose whatsoever.
Digia (Score:3)
I assume Digia are after commercial licensing fees, service agreements and support contracts for Qt and will attempt to build up the user base.
Kinda sad to see Nokia vanish into a death spiral though. I really cannot see Windows based smart phones gaining traction against iPhone/Android unless they are really something special or are heavily discounted. I find the whole business tactic fairly incomprehensible to be honest, but I am assuming other people know more than me here.
Given Nokia's position what else could they have done to preserve the market share? Any Ideas?
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They did that. It's called the N900.
But early in they then dumped the linux distro called Maemo they had put on the N900 and merged it with Intels Moblin
and that kinda stopped developers to make apps for the N900.
So they mishandled it and didn't had a long term plan for it.
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>Assign more developers and resource so MeeGo.
Yes, adding more resources to a project makes it go faster and smoother. /sarcasm
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Meego (Score:2)
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Surely they can. Only, they're more focused on tablets. I believe we the users are most interested in the power of the mobiles in our pockets.
I'm personally concerned with having the same OS on handheld, tablet, and desktop. I don't want to maintain multiple software ecosystems.
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you're quite right - unfortunately Nokia appears to think that the single ecosystem should be .NET. If only consumers thought so too they'd be onto a winning strategy :)
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Then you should have loved Maemo. It was pretty much Debian. While I haven't seen a Debian tablet yet, I do know that Debian Works For Me very well on my laptop, servers and smartphone, so that's two out of three.
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with the convergence of ios and osx and android 3.0 for tablets, the future is largely 'single ecosystem'.
Unfortunately for intel i can't see meego gaining much traction against those 2.
A 3rd player needs a mini-Apple zeal in producing a focussed product delivery. HP? Their roadmap for webos looks promising and unlike nokia have concrete timeframes.
Solution? Partner hp-intel. Webos dumps qualcomm and directfb for wayland and a powervr based soc like omap4. Powervr is also embedded in atom! So both companies
Nokia did not sell Qt (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Nokia did not sell Qt (Score:5, Insightful)
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they 'hope' to continue selling Qt-capable symbian devices by the truckload until their wp7 offering is ready. With an already declining market share they'll have to cut into margins. i.e. Superior hardware against android oems.
In short, nokia have 9 months, not 2 years. WP7 phones must be shipping in xmas stockings or they're doomed. iPhone5 will be out...
Wow, that was fast (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Wow, that was fast (Score:4, Informative)
Little surprise as Microsoft is a QT competitor (Score:3)
Naturally an alliance with Microsoft must include getting rid of Microsoft competitors, so little surprise there. Just confirms that whatever Nokia's gonna do, it'll not involve anything else then Microsoft approved "best" practices.
Digia makes Linux smartphones (Score:2)
Looks good from a QT/KDE perspective. Digia develops Symbian, and QT and MeeGo Linux smartphones, and have had a partnership with Trolltech.
No they didn't (Score:2)
What happened /., you used to be cool.
FUD much? No more stories about inaccurate (technical) reporting anymore from you then, pot kettle and all that.
But what does it mean for development? (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the commercial licensing side of Qt, *NOT* Qt. The major thing that will matter to the open source community is whether Qt will still be developed as a robust cross platform toolkit, not so much what happens to the commercial licensing business. Even Qt's future on phones doesn't concern me too much - the smart phone industry moving towards "app store" models and locked down platforms is a much bigger concern. (I'm just waiting for Apple to announce they're moving to an App Store model for all their desktop machines...)
Where Qt really shines is as a toolkit for graphical applications on the desktop. THAT's what ultimately concerns me - will the developers who have made Qt such an outstanding cross platform graphical toolkit will be allowed to continue their work as a paid, full time job? Never mind the phones, KDE and a vast array of non-KDE desktop applications that are important parts of the open source ecosystem rely on Qt (especially those that have to deploy on Windows). Would the commercial Linux vendors step in to keep the Qt devs programming, much as they have hired Linux kernel folk in the past? Libreoffice indicates they will act to protect key elements of open source, so fingers crossed. A statement along those lines would be reassuring, if they are in fact able and willing to fall back to that solution if necessary.
Response from David Stone @ Qt (Score:5, Informative)
Hi all
Here are a few points that might add clarity.
Nokia did not 'sell Qt'. It selected a partner to sell commercial licenses and support services, a task that is currently done by Nokia. Qt is offered under two licenses - commercial and LGPL - and the large (majority in fact) base of non commercial users are not impacted by this change.
The agreement lets Nokia focus on Qt for its core businesses, and ensures Qt commercial customers - mainly in the desktop and embedded space - are given top service by a company that has commercial Qt licensing at the core of its interests.
The development of Qt has not been sold or outsourced and is not impacted by this change. Nokia's commitment to advancing and developing Qt for all Qt users has not changed - it remains commited.
You can read some more details at http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/03/07/nokia-and-digia-working-together
Regards
David Stone
Communications Manager, Qt
I've seem something like this before. (Score:2)
Qt-Gon Jinn: Do you hear that flushing sound?
Jar-Jar Nokia: *Nod*
Qt-Gon Jinn: That is the sound of you flushing your business down to toilet.
Nemoidian Ballmer: BRING ME NEW ASSMONKEY!
Jar-Jar Nokia: My fucked up! My fucked up!
search terms = microsoft digia (Score:5, Interesting)
Watch Qt licensing and support fees to skyrocket to drive Qt out of the market. Nokia won't be implicated but that is probably the plan. Anything cross platform has _always_ been a threat to Microsoft and they have done everything legal and many time illegal to destroy these. Qt is a threat to Microsoft and destroying Qt also helps them hurt companies like Google and Adobe who base many of their tools and products on Qt. IMO
I figured this would happen but hoped it wouldn't. it sucks.
LoB
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Digia is just a quite generic Finnish integrator / consulting company with a large mobile division (relatively speaking) and some own products that they sell mostly domestically e.g Progress based ERP and mobile company phonebook with multiplatform support. They do partner with about any main stream software vendor like Microsoft, Oracle, IBM or Progress. I do not think they are particularly evil unless they got paid big time for being one.
Strange think is that Digia bought QT licencing business as they do
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This is a good thing, and horrible headline! (Score:2)
Ever since the Qt acquisition by Nokia, Qt on the desktop has been neglected in favour of the latest shiny mobile thing. Now that commercial customers finally get someone to talk to who do not have years to catch up on their competition (and are understandably a bit busy), we might expect desktop features to move forward as well.
Granted, some of the things that is coming out of the mobile efforts also do greatly benefit the desktop side, but still, the focus has clearly been elsewhere.
Also, what is up with
So... (Score:2)
they are finnished with it, then?
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Yeah right.
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True, if only Nokia had thousands of people working on useful stuff instead of (obviously) drowing in bureaucracy, Qt would be a world-beater.
however, as its open-source, you'll find the Lighthouse project has already got Qt working on Android, and an Qt-iPhone [qt-iphone.com] project is making good inroads too.
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In any given month I maintain/develop in a
Re:Free of Microsoft (Score:4, Funny)
To paraphrase the old saying Objective-C is all the speed and familiarity of Smalltalk combined with all the safety and conciseness of C.
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If you own Nokia stock, I would recommend divesting of it asap.
I did at a small loss, not that I had more than a few hundred dollars worth anyway. From the look of the prices so did many other people.
A few days later I was asked if I want to apply for a linux admin job for Nokia. I'm staying well clear of that one.
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That doesn't seem to be what's happened here. Here they used a LESS emotional headline than was warranted.
What's actually happening is the Noika is removing all financial benefit to itself from Qt being successful, but is continuing to control development.
If your product depends on Qt, I think it's time for you to either sponsor a fork, or to switch your dependencies.