Ultramobile PC To Make a Comeback? 140
jfruhlinger writes "Remember the Oqo and other 'ultra-mobile PCs' — full-fledged Windows machines in a cell phone form factor, pushed without success in the early-to-mid '00s? Well, Japan's NTT DoCoMo thinks that they could still catch on, making plans for a Windows 7 computer with a 4-inch, 1024-by-600 screen."
heh. says it is much heavier (Score:1)
I suppose due to the extra battery needed for Atom. :)
http://www.geek.com/articles/chips/arm-posts-cortex-a9-vs-atom-performance-video-intel-should-be-worried-2010016/
http://netbooked.net/images/sized/images/uploads/articles/arm-vs-atom2-600x217.jpg
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MS PUMPS MILLIONS into crap OEM efforts like this.
It's like pouring gasoline onto a pile of wet, green leaves.
There's always a LOT of smoke - and never any fire. Remember the Samsung and HP tablet computers?
I already have one... (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:I already have one... (Score:4, Insightful)
More importantly, Android applications are all designed with a touch based user interface in mind. One of the major issues with previous generations of tablets was that they relied on traditional applications which could work with a touch interface, but they were never designed for it. This made using the device for non-basic functions a headache. I remember the Oqo quite well, and as a geek I wanted one (or a Sharp Zarus...). However as an engineer and end user, I knew it was never practical and would be primarily an expensive toy.
Zaurus (Score:2)
I've still got a Zaurus although I haven't used it in a while. It is a great little machine and the transflective LCD is the best screen besides e-ink for use outdoors.
It isn't a machine for running Windows though. Who would want to run Windows on a machine that small?
It's also a bit funny that the Zaurus applications still seem as fast and responsive as Android apps on a Galaxy S. The graphics aren't fancy but the CPU speed and flash speed seem just as good. Has there really been no improvement in the last
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Ah, the Zaurus. I still use my SL-5600 for night time reading.
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Guess what? I have an Android with a 10 inch screen and a full size (bluetooth) keyboard. Now it no longer does everything I'd ever want because I expect more. Now I expect to run OpenOffice on it for example, and so far I can't. For no good reason that matters to me as a user.
Just saying that if Google wants to keep the march on Microsoft, it's time to wake up to the fact that a pad is not in fact a large phone. Can't say how irritating it is when I run a "mobility browser" on the Xoom and it pulls up a du
Remember the Oqo ...? (Score:2)
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They both ran XP
Slashdotters generally try to block XP out of their memory, which might explain the failure to recall here.
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Meh, XP was OK as StarcraftOS, at least until Starcraft started working well under wine. I'd still be running XP for games if it wasn't for DX10.
purpose (Score:3)
I considered buying a Nokia N810 once upon a time, but I went with something from Archos instead, because i only needed web browsing and multimedia. This was a time before iDevices or Android devices became a PC in your pocket.
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Doesn't improve on what we already have (Score:2)
It could possibly serve as a business person's primary PC upon which the employee simply connect this device up to larger peripherals when in the office and simply uses it as a hand held device on the go.
They'll need to have a cell phone and a computer anyway so why use this when you could either have a laptop or a desktop at work and use your cell phone on the go? This idea provides lots of limitations and design compromises without any significant advantages over what is already available. There might be a few teeny tiny niche markets for this sort of device but frankly I don't see much point to it. If I must run Windows, a netbook is pretty damn portable and can be plugged into a larger monitor/keyboa
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They don't need to have both if one device really will serve both needs.
The single smaller device just needs to be able to be treated like a real PC or like any other device it needs to.
The iPods already have a prescident for this. There's a sort of "tablet" shell that you can buy for an iPod that will give it a bigger tablet-like screen. You could do the same for a mobile terminal (laptop) or a non-mobile terminal (workstation).
The only real problem is that you might want to treat your device as a phone wh
Converging to the phone not the PC (Score:2)
They don't need to have both if one device really will serve both needs.
You left out the word "well". It needs to serve both needs well. My smartphone already is (theoretically) capable of pretty much everything this device could do AND it makes phone calls. In time your phone probably will be able to plug into a much larger monitor. Furthermore Windows was very much NOT designed to be used on a 4 inch screen. I've got really good eyesight and can't imaging doing anything productive on it that my smartphone can't already do.
The iPods already have a prescident for this. There's a sort of "tablet" shell that you can buy for an iPod that will give it a bigger tablet-like screen.
Even taking your word for it I have never seen o
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Windows PC market. None of the devices you pointed to can run MS Office 2010 nicely.
That being said, why would anyone want to run and OS that is designed for much higher screen resolutions on a device that can't run those resolutions? I want a device that has an OS that is designed to run at that resolution, like Android or iOS.
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Windows wasn't designed to run at 1024x600? That's news to me, considering that minimum res for Windows 7 is 800x600.
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It used to be that nobody bothered to change their defaults. Those defaults for Windows used to be 640x480.
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Have you tried to RUN windows 7 at 800x600?
If you want to run Windows 7 on your PC, here's what it takes:
1 gigahertz (GHz) or faster 32-bit (x86) or 64-bit (x64) processor
1 gigabyte (GB) RAM (32-bit) or 2 GB RAM (64-bit)
16 GB available hard disk space (32-bit) or 20 GB (64-bit)
DirectX 9 graphics device with WDDM 1.0 or higher driver
It wasn't designed for that system. It isn't functional on tha
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Not only will resolution impact usability, but something with a 4" screen will probably resort to a chiclet keyboard or touch screen. Who is going to use Office '10 in any productive capacity with those limitations?
Limited use (Score:2)
A tiny computer that runs software designed for a much larger screen will be useful to a limited number of people. For most Android, IOS, WebOS, and maybe WP7 would all be a better OS in that environment.
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The idea, I believe, is that it has enough processing power to be used as a main computing device
According to the spec sheet, it has a 1.2 GHz Atom that "always runs at half speed", i.e., 600 MHz. And by 600 MHz, I mean Atom 600 MHz. Not, for example, Core Solo. Bear in mind also, this is with Windows 7. Do you really think that's enough power to be used as anything more than a novelty?
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Where's the spec sheet? Can't seem to find it.
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Yeah... and the first PC ran at something like 4.77Mhz.
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Much the same target as the 9" MacBook Air, I'd imagine—people who need extreme portability but still need to be able to run existing apps. Think frequent fliers.
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My bad. 11". That'll teach me to mention form factors from memory. Yeah, 4" is probably too small to be generally useful. I didn't realize it was quite *that* small. I've seen usable micro-laptops with screens down to about 7". That's about as small as makes sense, IMO.
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MacBook Air 11" screen and keyboard.
This 4" screen.
Those are very different devices.
Pics (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey guise, I found a picture! It runs Debian Linux!
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0c/Nokia_N900-1.jpg/788px-Nokia_N900-1.jpg [wikimedia.org]
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I'm pretty sure I can control the universe from my N900. Its the best portable computing device I've ever used. I do Android platform work for fun as well, and I like to use the N900 to scare people. "Why yes, my two year old phone can run Gingerbread, what, your brand new phone can't?" :)
I like the current windows UI (Score:1)
its much better than the old standard, but lets be realistic, its still pretty kludgey with a mouse and a giant screen, I cant imagine how poorly it would do on such a tiny interface with that high of a resolution
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As an owner of a Fujitsu U2010, which has a 1280x800 screen measuring 5.6" at the diagonal, the answer is: not too shabby, being equipped with a thumbstick and touchscreen. Basically it should end up revolving around how decent that pointing thing (looks kinda like a trackball?) works out.
Why Windows 7? (Score:3)
I can see no reason why a hardware manufacturer would put so much effort into what, in this past decade, has proven a complete failure: putting a desktop OS into a mobile form factor.
Given that Android source exists, why would a mobile device manufacturer even consider a non-free, licensed OS which has proved unsuccessful so far? Perhaps it's because of Microsoft's patent warchest (and their willingness to use it)?
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But... How much will it cost? (Score:2)
One argument says
It's Windows. Therefore we MUST Charge the same as we do for the X86 version
On the otherhand
It's Windows but we have to compete with OS's that are essentially given away. (Android & iOS) So we have to give it away.
If the ydid that and for some really strange reason it took off then the MS share price would plummet like a stone. In an instant one of their cash cows has gone.
Cue throwing of chairs in Redmond.
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if it's x86, it would be silly if it didn't run windows at all.
it's too bad sideshow-while-the-computer-itself-is-sleeping-mostly seems like a forgotten idea nowadays.
anyways, they would choose it over android to differentiate. and also to prove that it can run a real os, which can run real programs in a pinch. and also because realistically they would have to co-operate with google to stay current on android, and also perhaps there aren't x86 compatible opengl drivers and such for android on x86.
though I d
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People know and understand Windows, and don't have to learn arcane command line syntax or application imcompatibility.
The GP referenced Android. It doesn't even come with a way to get to the command line much less the need to learn any syntax. Considering it has the highest smartphone market share, I'd say there are millions and millions of people that "know and understand" it. Application incompatibility? There are 200,000 applications in the Android market and many outside of it. All of the staples anyone would need on a four inch screen device that you shove in your pocket are present and accounted for. And if it
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People know and understand Windows, and don't have to learn arcane command line syntax or application imcompatibility.
[...] Application incompatibility? There are 200,000 applications in the Android market and many outside of it. \
You are either being disingenuous or you haven't really tried many of those 200,000+ apps... To say that they are all compatible with every Android device is basically absurd; to say that the average user doesn't have to worry about incompatibility is only true if the user limits themselves to email, social media, and perhaps a few games.
The desktop/laptop hardware platform, for all it's flaws, does an undeniably great job of being astoundingly similar on pretty much every device out there (with the except
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To say that they are all compatible with every Android device is basically absurd
Whoa, what? I guess it's a good thing I didn't say that then. Of course all Android apps aren't compatible with all devices. Do you really think all Windows applications will work with this cell phone? What the GP was implying with his swipe about application incompatibility was that people (with the winphone device) will be able to use the apps they are used to, i.e., Windows desktop stuff. Which is a very dubious claim as the vast majority of that stuff is not going to be usable on a 4" 1024x600 scre
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Furthermore, if you don't like the Android model, you don't have to use an Android phone. [...] For everybody else, I would recommend whatever the latest Nexus model on the market happens to be as that's where the mainstream officially sanctioned Android action is.
Golf clap. "If you disagree with me, go away!" There's a bulletproof argument. Excuse me while I go spend $600 on a Nexus handset, only to be required to still pay an exorbitant amount for a data plan. Gee, isn't freedom great!
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Furthermore, if you don't like the Android model, you don't have to use an Android phone.
There are pros and cons to every model so at the end of it, you have to pick your poison. That's just another way of saying it.
Excuse me while I go spend $600 on a Nexus handset
Samsung: $199 on contract and $549 new. [samsung.com] That's something like, oh, let me think, every other single phone on every US carrier in its class!
only to be required to still pay an exorbitant amount for a data plan
Hmmm... pay your $529 at T-Mo and knock ten dollars a month off of any plan because you brought your own phone. Damn if that doesn't bring the total price of phone and service over a two year contract to within a few dollars of what you would
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Before Android and iOS, those "millions and millions of people" were using regular cellphones without "app stores" or touch screens. Nobody cared about app stores a decade ago, when even the idea of putting a camera on a phone would lead to "Why? What for? But I already have a camera!"
If some new sort of smartphone could introduce a new killer feature, like (for instance) the ability to run all desktop PC software, then that might well leave Android and iOS behind, just as the non-smart cellphones have bee
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The LG GW990 seemed close to a PC compatible cellphone, but it was never released.
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The Windows user interface as it is today does not work well with touchscreens.
I'm currently working on a project that uses a Windows tablet (time constraints won't allow a port to a different OS) and while our application is doing reasonably well by now, working with Windows itself is a major pain in the ass.
Maybe Windows 8 will fix that, but for now I can't recommend using a Windows tablet as general purpose PC. If you need to run only one specific software and the software vendor knows what he is doing,
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You are so very very WRONG.
Apple has sold 160 million iOS devices [techcrunch.com] and Google reports that there are 100 million Android devices out there. [mashable.com] That's over a quarter billion devices running operating systems that a) didn't even exist 4 years ago and b) came to market being compatible with exactly zero existing apps.
Whats the need? (Score:2)
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Fewer people use PCs in Japan than elsewhere, I think because of commute times. Phones are more often used to do all sorts of tasks. Trying to extend that beyond Japan ignores a lot of cultural factors however.
Comment removed (Score:3)
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Back around 1949, or 1950, My dad bought a portable Zenith TV. It weighed about 50 pounds, had 60 tubes, and a 2" screen. A year or so later, he purchased a magnifying lens for the for the set -- it was about 8", sat on a metal stand in front of the TV and made it almost watchable. (At least for me, a 7 year old at the time), sitting about 3 or 4 ft away. A year or two later, we got a 15" Black and White Philco, which was a definite improvement.
So, are we going the same route with cell phones and compute
System DPI (Score:2)
But does it turn into a robot? (Score:4, Funny)
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No, but if you get 5 of them in different colors, they form Docotron, a huge robot 120 feet high with a sword.
It will be a flop just like the viao UX (Score:2)
It will be a flop just like the SONY VAIO UX.
The Fujitsu U series has advantages. (Score:4, Interesting)
I own one and when I corporate traveled it was my constant companion.
The most significant advantage is that the physically small and compact machine that runs your full desktop.
Plug it into the docking station and...abracadabra... you have full size monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
Travel without the docking station? You can still use the tiny dongle to attach to ethernet and VGA while using the USB keyboard mouse.
Battery life SMOKES most smartphones I have owned since 2007.
I can't say it applies to all Ultras, but I still use my Fujistu for the occasional travel.
A Great Idea! (Score:3)
A computer that could be plugged into a more powerful computer, where it would either use the more powerful comuter's resources or just the more powerful computer's display and input features.
That would be very cool.
Too many compromises (Score:2)
A computer that could be plugged into a more powerful computer, where it would either use the more powerful comuter's resources or just the more powerful computer's display and input features.
Why not just use a more powerful computer to begin with? To work you would need bigger displays available in every location you plan to visit which just isn't likely to happen. Want to work from the local coffee shop? A laptop immediately becomes a better option. You probably are already carrying a smartphone anyway so why carry a redundant compact device that can't make calls?
I can already plug my netbook into a much higher resolution screen and connect a keyboard and mouse. If I need real horsepower
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Nevertheless, the idea of physically carrying all of your data and associated programs with you in a compact format that you can access anywhere is a very appealing idea.
Already available (Score:2)
Nevertheless, the idea of physically carrying all of your data and associated programs with you in a compact format that you can access anywhere is a very appealing idea.
Agreed but we already have that or something heading quickly in that direction with smartphones. Just being mobile isn't enough. I can carry all my applications on a USB flash drive but that doesn't make them especially useful. I had a Nokia "smartphone" (an E70) that theoretically could do almost everything an iPhone could do but the interface was so bad that it was basically useless for any real work. The interface matters. Smartphones are going to continue to get more powerful and should serve exact
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But a docking station effected through USB and software!!
Comeback? (Score:3)
Making a 'comeback'? You keep using that word, but I am not sure it means what you think it means.
Seriously, if almost nobody ever bought an 'ultramobile' computer, and if it was a flop ... this isn't a comeback, this is a second attempt at becoming something people care about.
And, as lots of people have pointed out already ... it sounds an awful lot like current smartphones.
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You have hit the nail squarely with this one. People have been trying to push UMPCs about as long as we've had SMT x86 processors with no success whatsoever.
Meanwhile, as has been pointed out already in this thread, we're getting dual-core phones now, about to get quad-core ones, they're starting to get HDMI output... The UMPC is here, it just doesn't have an x86 processor, and good riddance. I have nothing against my Phenom II X3 but I'm not married to it either.
I don't remember the Oqo, do you? (Score:2)
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the price was the thing that killed oqo, toshiba liberetto & others. they were cool devices, but not at that price available to people who would have thought of them as cool devices(kids, teens & nerds, the versatility makes it a potent time killer).
Why not just offer custom sizes? (Score:2)
It's a tablet. It's a phone. It's something in between. Meh.
Cut to the chase and offer custom sizes.
The obvious "why not", is that you can't just take a knife and slice some real estate off a full sized screen. You'd have to source screens in multiple sizes, possibly from different vendors.
Too much cost for a niche product (Score:2)
Cut to the chase and offer custom sizes.
Costs too much for what is a niche product to begin with. Every option that is offered costs extra to produce and we're not talking small amounts of money either. Part of the reason Apple is able to be so profitable is because they offer relatively few variations and so don't incur the manufacturing, testing, support, logistics and marketing costs.
Battery (Score:2)
Size matters (Score:2, Interesting)
Many people said "An iPad is just a big iPod touch" and that's technically correct. Also, it is technically correct to say "A swimming pool is just a big bathtub." What some people don't realize is that even if two things are identical in all ways except size, the difference in size alone can make quite a difference in what is possible. You can't swim laps in a bathtub, and you can't deliver the full experience of an app like Pages on a device with a screen that's smaller than a business card.
Similarly, ful
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That 1024x768 screen in the iPad makes all the difference compared to the 960x640 display of it's business card sized brother. Just like swimming laps in a bath tub!
Sounds like a great argument until you actually think about it.
Now, Windows doesn't work well on tiny screens, that's true, but it's completely unrelated to your pushing of the nonsensical specialness of the iPad. It's also not clear why you think there no common need or big market for a device when you assume that the iPad is needed for some
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Your logic is amazing!
I think a billion+ people are now going to return their iPads from the clutches of 10-year-old kids and hospital workers because they find nothing special about an iPad.
I'm sure those back-orders are a fluke.
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That wasn't the point I was making at all. I wasn't setting this up as iPad vs UMPC. I was pointing out that some people thought the iPad was nothing special compared to the iPod, that it was just bigger, but that's not the case. And it works both ways. Making something that's identical to something else, just smaller, does not mean that it's equally good.
Making the iPod bigger didn't make it just bigger, it made new things possible. Making a PC this small doesn't just make it smaller, it makes it worse. DE
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That's just like the "porn-star" is technically using the same equipment as the "non porn-star" only, when he folds it in half, it's "just like" the average Slash-dot Johnson.
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Desktop Windows can have different frontends to suit particular applications. "Media Center" would be one example - intended to be displayed on a large TV and operated by remote control from some distance away.
No reason why there couldn't also be cellphone frontends for desktop Windows. The frontend would do all the smartphone stuff you are used to. But there would be support for regular Windows desktop applications as well. App store optional, no jailbreak necessary, any Windows app will just work.
Sounds
Reenact Brazil (Score:1)
If you put a fresnel lens and a keyboard on it, you could set up a "Brazil" style office.
Could you dock it? (Score:2)
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I'd be game if something like this came with a docking station like the Atrix does.
Only reason I'm not touching the Atrix right now is the $500 price tag on the docking station.
I suspect the future of mobile computer is a model similar to that - only something the form of a mobile phone would have the processing power of a mid-range laptop you could get today. I'd love to be able to easily swap from my mobile device to my primary computing device - especially if it could handle gaming to a decent level (I k
Still waiting for a good tablet. (Score:2)
I didn't think Japanese had ever given up on these kinds of PCs. Sony kept making Windows tablets for quite a while after they had given up on the US market. In fact, I think they probably have never stopped making them.
I have an old Sony tablet, running XP, which was released back in 2004. It was sitting around at my old company several years ago so I got it for free. I certainly wouldn't have paid the $1,000+ the thing cost when new.
People seriously underestimate the utility of a full-fledged PC in such a
1024-by-600 screen? WTF?!? (Score:2)
Oh come on. Haven't we learned anything from the horrible resolution debacle that NetBook manufacturers imposed on us by introducing yet another screen resolution? Making screens that are not at least "standard" (1024x768) relegates many programs to either a crippled status or simply makes them extremely inconvenient to use. Many dialog boxes extend beyond a 600 pixel resolution. Pretty much everything is formatted to display properly in at least a 768 vertical resolution. Or are they trying to ride on the
Microsoft sales dept rearing it's ugly head again (Score:2)
Microsoft pushed the UMPC as well as Tablets in the early 00's so they could sell Windows licenses. The only reason they are pushing it again is so they can sell Windows licenses. Windows Phone/Mobile has always been a large flop and nobody wants to use it. There are now devices out between 4-8" that do what I want from a computer that size and they're called cell-phones now. There are devices between 7" and 12" that do what I want from a computer that size and they're called tablets now. Anything larger is
Portable computing needs head mounted display (Score:2)
And data entry gloves.
Call me when I can wear it on my hip, see 3200x1600 resolution, and "wiggle my fingers" to type. I.e., it reads my gestures.
And when it has 16 hours of life, at least.
--PeterM
NTT DoCoMo is not a hardware maker! (Score:2)
They're just putting the thing in their lineup.It's not like they are shelling out to produce the thing.
PC (Score:2)
It's not a PC unless it has a floppy drive.
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And Fujitsu has been making ultramobile PCs for years, the u810 came out in 2007. [cnet.com] I have a 2 lbs Fujitsu UMPC running Windows 7 with a 9" touchscreen at 1280x768. It's worth about $200 used.
How is this newsworthy?
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UMPCs are smaller than subnotebooks, have a display measuring 12.7cm to 17.8cm (5 to 7 inches), and are operated like tablet PCs using a touchscreen or stylus. [wikipedia.org] Although it lists the lower limit to the screen being 5" there are examples on that page of UMPCs with screens as small as 4".
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Which is why he referred to the U810 first, which has a 5 inch screen. I happen to own its successor, the U2010/U820.
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The UH900 isn't bad, except for the non-convertibility, which relegates the touchscreen to gimmick status.
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2007? Hell, I had a Toshiba Libretto back in the late 90s and I bought it used. About the size of a VHS tape. (Remember those?)
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Doubtful, unless you're talking about selling huge quantities. In small quantities you end up being bumped to the back of all lines and end up paying more for most components than you otherwise would pay. Other than the price, Open Pandora [openpandora.org] does all the other things you're asking for. Admittedly, I've been waiting for mine for ages, but it does offer the things that you're asking for in a form factor that's easily hand held.
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I still can't believe they want 500 bones for that thing, especially after the charlie-foxtrot that the GP2X turned out to be...
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"Handheld" and "full keyboard"/"full-sized keyboard" seem to be at odds with each other.
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Get a used Droid 1, install a normal linux userland and be on your way.
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You could probably pick up a used Fujitsu U820 on eBay for less than $500 and install Linux on that.
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My phone does all I want, if I want more I would want a brick PC with no display but I can plug in a HUD and whip out a fold up keyboard (Had one for my palm that was fantastic and folded up to the size of the palm pilot), pointing device.
At that point I can have a virtual 24" display and a real portable pocket device to type on a comfortable keyboard and use a trackpoint to clicky clicky. then fold up the keyboard, take off the earpiece hud and go.
Bonus points of you make the HUD transparent so it can be