HTC Considering Buying Own OS 240
An anonymous reader writes "HTC Corp chairwoman Cher Wang announced that the company is interested in buying an operating system. From the article: 'After the global PC heavyweight Hewlett-Packard Co. (HP) announced on Aug. 18 a plan to spin off its PC business and stop sales of its TouchPad tablet that uses the WebOS operating system, a slew of manufacturers like HTC and Samsung reportedly have been trying to acquire the WebOS platform to expand their mobile market reach. 'We have given it thought and we have discussed it internally, but we will not do it on impulse,' Wang said in an interview with the Economic Observer of China.'"
Out of their minds? (Score:5, Insightful)
So they don't realize that they have their position in the cellphone-market BECAUSE they use Android insted of IN SPITE of it?
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android is not open. the source code to the upcoming version is locked up by google. making devices on older versions means the geeks don't want them and it's a race to the bottom of me too phones.
Re:Out of their minds? (Score:5, Informative)
HTC has access to the Honeycomb source code, just like many other manufacturers, meaning it's a non-issue for them.
Just because it's not on the AOSP doesn't mean that vendors don't have it.
Unless you're specifically referring to Ice Cream Sandwich, in which case this is no different to ANY other version of Android, whereby a select group got access first, then everyone else. Besides, HTC has done a lot (more than most) to differentiate themselves from other Manufacturers, with Sense.
What I think most people miss is that HTC don't just make Android phone. They also make Windows Phones and (for some reason known only to them) Brew phones. What's the big deal with having another OS they can peddle, something that they can make entirely theirs? Samsung has Bada, yet they're still doing pretty well with Android, so it can be done.
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expand their mobile market reach.
Reads as: "So no one else has this option."
The only reason anyone would want to have this, is simply so no one else would have it. I know it sounds pretty crazy but if a company has the rights to WebOS, then who knows what might happen?! In reality, WebOS may just be a yawn and no one really wants it for an actual project, but then again the companies in question don't know that for sure, so why not get a piece of the action while the getting is good? That way if it does become something big they
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When I was using HTCs, it was with Windows Mobile. They had their position before Android. HTC makes great hardware. I'd argue that using Android would benefit them, but what if they pulled a RIM and include a compatibility layer? Then you have the best of everything.
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HTC makes great hardware.
HTC has made plenty of noob mistakes, like Raphael's keyboard connector which pulls out when the keyboard slides out a bunch of times.
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Have had the phone for 2 years, no problem here. Not saying it doesn't happen, but for some it doesn't.
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Using Android IS benefiting them.
Trying to have a "me too" OS at this point without major backers beyond themselves would be an epic failure.
Look at how well Samsung Bada is doing... Or to be more specific, NOT doing. Android is consisting of an increasingly large percentage of Samsung's mobile market share.
Unless Google completely screws up the Motorola situations, I don't see Samsung or HTC dropping Android any time soon. It would leave a product vacuum (non-Moto Android phones) that new players would
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Using Android IS benefiting them.
In what way? By making less and less profits quarter over quarter as its only way to compete is by making their phones cheaper by continually decreasing the profit margins on their devices? Apple now gets 2/3rds of the global smartphone profits while HTC is now fighting amongst a half dozen other big companies for an ever shrinking pool of profits and is fighting a similar race to the bottom that has led to HP to ditch its PC division.
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Which is better than what people are making on other OSes, look at the losses Win Phone and WebOS are making. Some profit is better than no profit. Do you think car makers should only make high margin luxury cars?
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This is a competition, you have to be the best or improving, there's no such thing as "enough." Mobile manufacturers aren't going to settle for crumbs at Google's table, slitting each others throats while Google rides their back, extracting all the value from the platform. Particularly considering that Google is now going to be making their own phones and competing with them directly.
I suppose it isn't a good thing that Apple's vacuuming-up more of their customer's mone
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No offense against Google, but HTC is the only cell phone provider that's developed a UI for Android that's actually an improvement over the stock platform. Both Samsung's TouchWiz and Motorola's MotoBlur UI changes just make the Android phones they run under phone slower and flakier.
If any cell phone provided can make WebOS a serious contender, it's HTC.
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Yeah, let's make another OS with no app. You know, the apps, the thing that nowadays make smartphones popular.
I really can't understand HTC strategy, even their lineup strategy. They talk about differentiation while most of their phones look the same, have similar specs and similar prices. HTC Sensation? Just like the HTC Desire HD... I am no Apple fan, but Apple's lineup, using old models as a cheap alternative make much more sense than throwing money at new models while retailers can't sell th
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Damn true.
Yeah, let's make another OS with no app. You know, the apps, the thing that nowadays make smartphones popular.
I really can't understand HTC strategy, even their lineup strategy. They talk about differentiation while most of their phones look the same, have similar specs and similar prices. HTC Sensation? Just like the HTC Desire HD... I am no Apple fan, but Apple's lineup, using old models as a cheap alternative make much more sense than throwing money at new models while retailers can't sell the old ones fast enough.
Did it occur to you that 50 well made apps are worth more (to a paltform) than 20,000 shitty apps?
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As far as I can see, what we get on small apps store is 45 shitty apps. Have a look at the OVI app store. Did I make my point?
I do not know about the Window Phone 7 app store, but I bet that's the same.
Of course quantity != quality, but you have more quality apps on the android and on the iphone store than on any other application store. Furthermore, most people don't care about quality. They want their generic apps (Facebook, XYZ newspaper, etc...) and a lot of other apps, mostly free.
Does Apple advertise
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True, but if one of those 20,000 shitty apps does what you want, even if it's shitty, it's still better than having none of the 50 quality apps do what you want.
And that's the point - having half a million apps implies a ton of crap (always has). However, there's a pretty damn good chance that there's one app that does what you want, even if it's shitty. And to a user, even if it's shitty, it beats not having i
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I did not know about the exclusive-naming in the US, that's an interesting piece of marketing bullshit.
Patents? (Score:2)
So they don't realize that they have their position in the cellphone-market BECAUSE they use Android insted of IN SPITE of it?
Maybe they want WebOS because of it’s patents?
Maybe you noticed that there is a bit of a patent race between the Apple / Google etc. as they buy up Motorola etc. It does not do HTC any good to have hitched it’s company to Android and see Apple et. al. shut it down.
With WebOS in it’s back pocket, HTC can threaten to counter sue if anybody sues them.
One just have to love the ill defined patens being issued.
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So explain why there were in that same position before Android existed.
Just because you only recently learned who there are doesn't mean they are actually new kids on the block.
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What position is that? A race to the bottom of thin margins with all the other Android companies who are continually getting less and less of the global smartphone profits whilst Apple continually gets more and more of the profits quarter over quarter? That's a pretty shitty position to be in. HTC probably wants to differentiate itself in a way that they can actually get higher margin devices sold rather than fighting over a continually shrinking pool of profits.
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HTC only has the ability to use Android (all of it), because they do what Google tells them. Google has made it clear that Android licensees are to toe the line. HTC, and every other handset manufacturer SHOULD be concerned if their entire business rests upon Google's whims, with no backup plan.
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They also realize they will have to compete with Android's own maker, who will very likely get even bigger exclusivity windows now than before.
They also realize defending Android in court is costing them too much money just to be forced into licensing agreements while the android creators sit comfortably in the sideline free of lawsuits.
They also realize that Google is becoming too controlling.
They also realize it is them, the phone makers, that made Android successful, not Google.
If there is one company th
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So they don't realize that they have their position in the cellphone-market BECAUSE they use Android insted of IN SPITE of it?
You, like so many others, don't understand the concept of long term planning.
Seems like 'next quarter' disease has spread way further than ever anticipated.
Not considering Microsoft tax (Score:2)
I don't really know, but does WebOS have to pay the Microsoft Patent tax ?
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Re:Out of their minds? (Score:4, Funny)
Yes, but you can't measure "good UI" in an Excel diagram, thus that's outside the thought space of CEOs.
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You know, this seems like the standard corporate-bashing, 'you're not an IT-guy like me, you'll never 'get it', knee-jerk response...
But seeing how most companies behave, it seem about right (apart from Apple and Google, who do seem to put UI design on the agenda).
Re:Out of their minds? (Score:4)
You know, this seems like the standard corporate-bashing, 'you're not an IT-guy like me, you'll never 'get it', knee-jerk response...
Oh, but most IT-guys don't get it either. Computing has become mainstream, and it's hard to give up old thinking constructs (like more features being better unconditionally).
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Oh, but most IT-guys don't get it either. Computing has become mainstream, and it's hard to give up old thinking constructs (like more features being better unconditionally).
Yeah that just doesn't compute. I don't think I'll ever get it.
With a physical object it would be understandable, if more features were always better everything would be a ridiculous contraption like Homer's dream car [blogspot.com] - and a "jack of all trades but master of none."
But with computers we can get all the upsides of more features with none of the downsides (at least in software), so it makes no sense. It's like putting less books in a library if you had practically unlimited space and low fetch time.
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But with computers we can get all the upsides of more features with none of the downsides (at least in software), so it makes no sense. It's like putting less books in a library if you had practically unlimited space and low fetch time.
It's not quite so much of a difference between hardware and software as you think. For example, take a look at the VLC preferences [site-hosts.net]. Note that "advanced options" is unchecked there, the list would actually be longer. Now suppose a layperson would like to set up a HTTP proxy, because their network requires one (note that 99% of the human population would even fail to understand it this far). Where can that be found? It's in Input / Codecs -> Access modules -> HTTP(S) -> HTTP proxy. No way in hell wou
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If the options menu had a search feature (like Windows 7's Start menu) then it would be easy to find, wouldn't it?
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If the options menu had a search feature (like Windows 7's Start menu) then it would be easy to find, wouldn't it?
Yes, as long as the name of that option is known (which isn't a given in general. For example, how's the feature called for removing the black bars of a video?), but in my observations, laypeople aren't that good in filtering out nonrelevant information. They see everything at once, get scared, declare that they don't know how to do it not even noticing that search field there and cry for help (or switch to a simpler application if they're a bit above the norm).
In order to use anything (hardware, software
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99% of vlc users will never see that.
Hiding the extra features is better than not having them. It lets you have a clear interface 99% of the time, but still support all that extra stuff.
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What's the motivation for implementing features that are never used, because they're hidden deep down where they can't be found? They only take up precious development time.
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If you want to dumb everything down and remove configurability until nothing scares the 'layman' we might as well just abolish anything that isn't branded Gerber or Fisher Price.
That's why I'm a fan of having multiple applications for doing the same thing, one per target user group. VLC might be the app for computer enthusiasts, and something like QuickTime Player X might be the app for laypeople (QuickTime Player X doesn't even have preferences). Of course that's more work for the developers, but every one can get a usable product.
Note however, that the size of these groups becomes smaller and smaller, the more sophisticated the required knowledge becomes. That's why most companie
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"with computers we can get all the upsides of more features with none of the downsides (at least in software)"
Actually, the proper terms would include "bloat", "resource hungry", and "cpu intensive". Sorry, but there really ARE downsides to all those features.
Need an example? Install any Linux distro, with Gnome3. Look at your resource consumption. It's out of this world! Now, do a new installation of the same distro with Gnome2. Check out your resource consumption, and you'll find that you're using l
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Not all features require more stuff to be running in memory. Most don't. What does Gnome3 have that XFCE doesn't? Some eye candy?
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This is why modularity is good, linux as a whole is very good for this (don't like gnome3? run gnome2, or xfce, or enlightenment etc etc...), and the kernel is especially good (you can compile features as modules, or turn them off entirely to build a lean mean kernel)... More software should be build like this, with modules selectable at compile time or runtime.
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I hope you're not saying that IT people think "more features being better unconditionally", because sane programmers absolutely do NOT believe that (the insane ones went nuts by trying to add feature after feature).
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I hope you're not saying that IT people think "more features being better unconditionally", because sane programmers absolutely do NOT believe that
No, I'm just saying that this is the old thinking construct in IT. However, I'm pretty sure that many IT folks would add feature after feature if it weren't for time/money constraints or laziness, thinking that it'd improve the product.
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It's a good OS, and P
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Yes you can. This is what Microsoft does with its UI studies.
Okay, bad example. (Yes, I'm dreading Win8)
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Are you referring to Mojave, where Microsoft proved that Vista is much better than XP [webmonkey.com]? :)
I'm sure those studies help a lot.
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Yes, but you can't measure "good UI" in an Excel diagram
I beg to differ. http://i.imgur.com/teooN.png [imgur.com]
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What if you put it in a PowerPoint slide?
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Exactly. People aren't interested in another OS. The problem with multiple OSs in the smartphone market is the same as it was in the PC market of the 1980 when developers wrote software for Commodore, Apple, MS-DOS, CP/M, Atari, TRS-80, TI, etc. If the developers don't see a big enough market to go out of their way to write for your obscure OS, then forget it - no software for you.
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They can differentiate themselves in those 2 areas with Android just fine.
No, they can't ... they can't because they are just like EVERY OTHER ANDROID PHONE ON THE PLANET.
People don't give a fuck about hardware specs, just that its 'good enough', at that point software makes the difference. And the difference with Android is what? The amount of carrier mandated shit they put on your phone or how long it takes to jailbreak it .... err, root it.
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Anyone that thinks HTCs Android handsets are the same as everyone elses has clearly not used HTC Sense.
There ie plenty of scope for HTC to bolt all sorts of cool apps and UI gizmos on top of Android and in so doing, differentiate their handsets from everyone elses.
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They don't? One of the biggest selling points for me when I bought the HTC Sensation was the dual-core 1.2 GHz CPU. The 8 Mp camera is nice too. And the Gorilla Glass. And the big screen.
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Other than the big screen and maybe the impact resistant glass, most people don't care. Are the pictures clear enough? I don't care if the camera is 8MP or 6MP if the pictures are clear enough for my needs. Really, the cameras on cell phones are getting enough pixels that they're becoming irrelevant. The glass isn't good enough to keep up with the sensors. My wife's Nikon D70 is a few years old now, but it's only 7.5 MP, and you can already tell when she uses inferior lenses. I seriously doubt there's
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That may be the case, but it is what it is. You don't have nVidia commissioning games that only work on their hardware, or to use a car analogy, you don't have manufacturers coming up with their own weird basic control UIs, and that's generally a good thing for the end users.
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or to use a car analogy, you don't have manufacturers coming up with their own weird basic control UIs
You certainly did in the early days!
We're only a few years in to the finger touchscreen smartphone. I don't think that anyone would claim that WebOS, iOS, Windows, or Android has the touch interface perfected just yet.
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Most SmartPhone OSes are .."Good Enough" at this point. Microsoft has been riding that train forever.
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Microsoft has been riding that train forever.
MS is actually a bit late to the finger touch screen game. They have done the stylus thing for years, but people weren't buying those in large numbers.
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If your approach to the competition requires a different/better operating system than they have, it's an uphill battle to hit critical mass with apps and THEN try and persuade customers that your OS is so superior they should abandon the "safe bets" of IOS and Android.
There is a great reward for introducing an exclusive, nifty OS that gets the job done and is loved by everyone. Problem is, most who try this approach will see their product end up on the "island of misfit toys".
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Kind of like the PC market, where using windows doesn't give you an edge over your competition... Which is why Apple (being the only one not dependent on windows) are the only manufacturer making any decent margin, and big players like IBM and now HP are looking to exit the market.
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I can see the benefit of a backup plan in case Google gets petulant. For most of the industry, the backup plan is Windows Mobile.
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No, they have. They realized that they were completely dependent on Google to draw in customers for them, and that they had no way to differentiate themselves from a half-dozen competitors that are in exactly the same business, not to mention any number of HTC wannabes that could pop up at any moment.
They're not completely dependent on Google. HTC also produce Windows and even BREW phones. Of course it may be those other handsets aren't exactly flying off shelves but then HTC should be asking why they're selling so many Android phones and why they're questioning getting their own OS.
I certainly don't see much merit in using WebOS instead unless HTC are going to go the whole hog and open source it. They simply won't get the interest otherwise.
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Bad plan (Score:3)
I'm not one to harp on about Open Source and Linux, but in this one case it is a situation where HTC should be investing that cash into their own Linux/Android branch rather than buying WebOS which is worth little or nothing.
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Because they don't like Google and its policies? Android is great but that's because it has an app store that goes along with it. People want apps, lots of them but companies don't want Google to come along with the deal.
By rolling their own version of Android it's unlikely they'll be in with the Android app store and it would be just as useless as having WebOS (or any other OS "worth little or nothing").
Re:Bad plan (Score:4, Insightful)
People want apps only because of the extra functionality (and entertainment, in the case of games). Android isn't great, it's merely good enough, and what makes it good enough isn't the enormous amount of apps you can download, it's the fact that you usually don't need them due to the excellent Google integration. Android without Google would be fairly shit, for a Linux OS.
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Having used both, I'd much rather have a WebOS device than an Android one. It was seriously let down by the hardware, not by the software. For example, in WebOS you have a conversation with a person, and whether it's via SMS, IM, or email it just seamlessly flows together. With Android, these are all separate streams.
HTC has shown that they can do hardware pretty well, so if they made a WebOS phone I'd be sorely tempted. I'd definitely recommend it to non-technical friends - WebOS is a not more user
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"For example, in WebOS you have a conversation with a person, and whether it's via SMS, IM, or email it just seamlessly flows together. With Android, these are all separate streams. "
Oh god I HATE unified messaging approaches such as this. A messaging medium with a limit of 120 characters per message has NO business being merged with email.
Look at how shitty Facebooks' messaging system has become since they removed the distinction between "email" style messages and IMs. No more subject lines, I get emails
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Maybe I was lucky with my original Pre, but I loved the OS and didn't have a problem with the hardware either. The design was great, I liked the keyboard and it never actually let me down.
I particularly liked the physical switch to turn the phone to silent, so that you could toggle it without having to open the phone up or use the screen. I also loved the glowing notification light which stayed on when you had a missed email/call/SMS. The Android equivalent is poor by comparison and goes out after five minu
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If they could turn WebOS into a launcher / UI.... (Score:2)
Meego (Score:2)
They can always run with Nokia's abandoned Meego OS. They wouldn't even need to buy it out.
I would recommend that they buy out myriadgroup who make Alien Dalvik to ease porting of Android apps to their own store. I always suspected that myriadgroup was trying to get bought out by Nokia before Feb 19.
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If they build a MeeGo GSM phone with modern hardware and a physical keyboard I'll buy it.
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And USB-OTG with HDMI/DisplayPort. Then it can be a PC too.
I firmly believe that Meego is the only mobile OS with the best chances of bridging the gap between phone, tablet and PC. Just change the window manager.
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I think those two are part of "modern hardware" at this point. Everything has had HDMI/DisplayPort for about a year now and more and more devices are offering USB OTG.
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All right! They've got two customers!
Go for it HTC!
TRON? (Score:3)
I'd wonder if they've considered the TRON [wikipedia.org] OS. Of course, hardly anyone in the US has ever heard of it, despite its being one of the most-installed OSs in the rest of the world. But the US is no longer an important part of the phone industry, y'know. And 99% of the customers don't know or care what OS the phone is running.
You'd think they'd be attracted to an OS that was designed for small gadgets, and which started life with strong support for all the world's languages, not just English.
Re:TRON? (Score:5, Insightful)
But the US is no longer an important part of the phone industry, y'know
What do you mean 'no longer?' The US has never been an important part of the phone industry, from the perspective of handset makers. They don't sell phones to customers, they sell them to networks, who demand a low price and will only bundle phones with the really expensive contracts with a 20% APR loan hidden in the details if they don't get a very low price. Then they'll try to rip out all of the best features of the phone, leaving them network-branded devices, with most of the uniqueness gone.
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Then they'll try to rip out all of the best features of the phone, leaving them network-branded devices, with most of the uniqueness gone.
It's one of the reasons I bought an iPhone: No network-branded crap.
(I don't live in the US, but they do that here too if they can).
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Umm, what? The US was never a terribly commanding customer, since Europe also had pretty strong, early, GSM adoption, and the US has historically been in thrall of what suits the carriers, which made for (until recently) a market overwhelmingly composed of crippled dumbphones. They've also never done huge amounts of phone hardware manufacture; but the phone industry has arguably never been more American than it is now when it comes to softw
They completely miss the point (Score:2)
They miss the point of why they're being sued. It's not because Android may or may not infringe on patents. It's because they're a competitor in an extremely lucrative market, and they'll still be a competitor - and a target - regardless of what OS their phones use.
Lots of OSes to pick (Score:5, Interesting)
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There are several cool zombie like OS:es that is ripe for resurrection: AmigaOS, MorphOS, Plan 9 and Haiku. One could even put an OpenStep foundation on top of any of these or something more conventional OS like Linux or xBSD and tap some similarities with iOS.
OK, since you've opened up the Pandora's box of Ancient Code, what about:
CP/M - lightweight, simple. If it could run on a Z-80, think of what it will do on an A9.
MS-DOS - yeah, a little clunky but if Microsoft complained about Copyright and stuff, you can just shift to FreeDOS. Hell, we could add QEMM and Quarterdeck for multitasking.
OS/2 - Should be able to fly on modern hardware. Add a few big buttons and you're golden.
and maybe a couple of others. Make the hardware Steampunkish and you've got an enti
Ahh WebOS (Score:5, Interesting)
WebOS is one of those mobile OS's that reminds me of BeOS. The techies love it. But fails to get a strong customer base.
I think it was mostly due with Palms hacking WebOS to in essence Hack into iTunes to gets its media (for iPod Support) causing its main competitor Apple to keep changing their method to block WebOS, from accessing its system without Apples permission.
So Early Adopters would have shaky Music support where it is supported one day then the next it will stop then they will have 2 week later they will have it again then stop. Granted I don't approve of Apple locking down iTunes to only Apple devices, however Palm just ignoring Apples policies just because they don't like them isn't good enough, and ends up hurting their customers more then just saying we don't support iTunes but they these other popular services.
In the mean time while Palm is fighting it gave Android the time to perfect its system and get it out, without all the baggage that Palm has made for itself.
They already have one.. (Score:4, Interesting)
Although.. I bought an HP TouchPad in the firesale intending to move it to Android from webOS, but actually it's a nice OS (although it has its limits). There's already an application library for it, not huge, but a good start. It would be a shame to see webOS vanish completely..
A Phone and Android is not enough (Score:3, Insightful)
A Phone and Android is not enough these days. In order to compete you need a network, an Application store and a stream of income that develops from that. Google sucks up all the added value from Android.
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Mod this comment up. Even if HTC became the dominate Android manufacturer Google would still be cherry picking the profits through their control of the Android app store.
WebOS is a very nice platform with an reasonable selection of *good* apps (1,500 apps might not sound like much compared to 50,000 but if the 1,500 include most of the very popular options you can still have a great experience). The Palm hardware was terrible - always a year behind what the rest of the industry was selling. HTC makes sol
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A Phone and Android is not enough these days. In order to compete you need a network, an Application store and a stream of income that develops from that. Google sucks
This shows how stupid western business have become (Score:2)
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I actually think that IBM does have vision, and made the right move. The thing about IBM is that it does keep reinventing itself, and the PC was just a stage in its evolution.
HP now tries to mimic that, but it has no clue.
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I'd love to see
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and seeing how netflix and skype went, i'll be the first one to buy a handset from HTC and Samsung before they dump android just to not have it supported by developers
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And yet all of the carriers only offer replacement if a phone goes bad while under contract. Support? The only phones that even have any kind of actual tech support are Win7 versions as you can get an answer from MS, otherwise you might as well buy a plain feature phone instead of any type of smart phone since the carrier isn't going to offer more then replacement while it's under contract.
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HTC makes Android, Windows and Brew phones. Why would this make them dump them all?
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Or following your own logic, Motorola is going to drop support for any non-Android phone any day now, which means it's a perfectly stable Android company.
That one is believable since Google is buying Motorola's phone division.
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Palm (and HP) produced sub-par hardware with excellent software. This makes up for a sub-par phone.
Throw in a killer phone such as the Galaxy S II with WebOS and you'll see if they don't sell like hotcakes.
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Nail, head hit. WebOS is a good OS, but so is BlackberryOS. However, one of the biggest reasons that people have moved to Android and iOS is because of the third party apps, mainly games.
What has hamstrung Windows Phone 7 is this exact thing. The OS is solid, the hardware conforms to a decent spec guideline for a snappy UI, and the security model is good. However, without the apps, people will turn their nose up at it and buy a device using a platform that their friends and acquaintances use.
In a way, w
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Secondly, OS's come and go. iOS and Android have their day currently, but eventually they will fade like everyone else
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While not trivial, the strict "OS" bare-metal-to-userspace stuff is more or less a solved and commodified problem. Going with BSD would allow you to avoid the GPL in your kernel; but if your plan is to distinguish your smartphone in the marketplace based on your uniquely awesome proprietary kerne