KDE 3.5 Fork Trinity Releases First Major Update 161
First time accepted submitter Z_God writes "Disappointed with KDE 4's performance and other shortcomings, Timothy Pearson continued KDE 3.5 development under the name Trinity. Tuesday the first major update of the Trinity Desktop Environment was released providing an alternative upgrade path for KDE users that do not feel comfortable with KDE 4. The Trinity Desktop Environment should provide a fast and familiar experience for all users expecting a traditional desktop environment. Packages are available for Debian, Ubuntu and Fedora from the Trinity project site."
Looks nice. (Score:2)
I might give this a try. One of the reasons I stopped using KDE was because it was painfully slow on my poor laptop.
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Good luck running kde4 quickly on my Pentium III laptop. Gnome2 still runs fine. Well, still meaning that it would if I still used it instead of fvwm....
QT 3.x still required? (Score:1)
QT 4 still buggy and slow compared to QT 3? (Score:1)
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Totally unsubstantiated claims. And FYI, porting something from Qt3 to Qt4 is not just a matter of switching libraries; painting among other things has to be done in a different way. This is one of the reasons why Plasma was written from scratch instead of porting Kicker in the first place.
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They are porting everything to use an abstraction layer (I believe called TQ), which they in turn hope to port to QT 4, but it's a long process.
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As far as I remember, port to Qt4 is planned for the future. You might want to check the project's roadmap, once the wesite becomes more responsive: http://www.trinitydesktop.org/wiki/bin/view/Developers/RoadMap [trinitydesktop.org]
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Probably not on freenode, or not exactly #trinity:
11:28:18 !! [join/#trinity] me [~myself@unaffiliated/me]
11:28:18 !! Topic for #trinity: Project Trinity - Decentral, Modular, Autonomous A.I.
11:28:18 !! Topic set by unknown [] (Thu May 29 21:24:17 2008)
11:28:18 !! Irssi: #trinity: Total of 2 nicks (1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 1 normal)
11:28:18 !! Channel #trinity created Thu Jan 21 19:43:28 2010
Too bad there's no easy way... (Score:1)
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I've not used gnome 3, but KDE 4 hardly feels that way. I get around just as well (if not better) than I did in 3.x
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I remember those years -- Gnome on Sawfish under TurboLinux looked real good. I loved the way it glistened. But it kept crashing, so I went back to whatever KDE was current then, 1.1, 1.2 I forgit.
So I am reminded of this when I try KDE-4. Pretty but dumb and unstable as well.
I will try trinity!
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You can! Download an old copy of the Mandrake installation discs. 7.2 will get you KDE 1; 8.2 will get you KDE 2. Having used both in their time, KDE1 is very much a first try, while the final releases of KDE 2 were actually pretty good.
Continue GNOME 2? (Score:2)
Great news about KDE3.5.
Now could we get a continuation of Gnome2?
We could call it Old Gnome Users of America [wikipedia.org].
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It's happening. Check out the Mate project. Linux Mint is considering using it in future releases.
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Thanks for sharing. Here's the link for it I found:
https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/MATE [archlinux.org]
I like polish and a good-looking desktop, but functionality comes first, and I basically just want to be able to work, not wonder what the flavor of the week desktop is now.
good name (Score:3)
Trinity is a good name for it, because the server got nuked!
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The fact that the server got overloaded is a testament to how much us KDE4 users hate KDE4 (and how much the KDE developers apparently hate us).
I've been using XFCE too and will probably switch my desktop here on a day where some upgrade breaks everything horribly, as it has several times in the past. However, I'll check out Trinity and see if it's worthy. I like the way XFCE looks, but there are a number of annoyances that I've not gotten past yet.
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Let's all take this opportunity to vote with our clicks.
Get in touch with your favorite distro and let them know you want to upgrade to old Gnome and old KDE.
If you were on Ubuntu, let Mint know the direction you want them to go in the future.
gone in 3 posts? (Score:5, Funny)
Nepomuk must be indexing the files on his server right now.
and Mate? (Score:3)
That's KDE, and what's with Gnome? Gnome3 consists nearly solely of regressions, there's barely any functionality left. The primary mode, "gnome-shell" is beyond words, acting as everyone has fat fingers on a 3'' touchscreen, combining worst ideas of iPhone and Windows Phone ("you can't run a program more than once", etc). The secondary mode, "gnome-fallback" is a bad joke too -- no usable panel, no desktop, no messing with the menu (try right clicking... try dragging...). Individual programs are no better: for example, someone had the brilliant idea of taking away the tray mode from RhythmBox. Oh, and network-manager (AKA "no network more complex than single DHCP") is a hard dependency.
There is a fork attempt called "Mate" but it doesn't look that promising yet. I wonder whether it's a matter of time, or if it's time to migrate to XFCE or something. As Linus and ESR said, XFCE feels like a big step back.
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your opinion. not sure what you mean by running a program more than once - try the middle button. gnome 2 didn't have a usable panel. It had a taskbar cluttered with tasks. The taskbar was a bad overly clicky idea from day one. No desktop? You mean icons on it? I usually fill my screen with windows. Why would I want icons -underneath- my windows? You have to drag them out of the way first.
I agree with you about rhythmbox.. sort of. It needs to be a top-b
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WHEN will Gnome finally design a UI to accommodate my tiny tiny fingers? We are stuck waiting for Frodo to fork Gnome and give us GnomeHobbit.
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That's KDE, and what's with Gnome? Gnome3 consists nearly solely of regressions, there's barely any functionality left. The primary mode, "gnome-shell" is beyond words, acting as everyone has fat fingers on a 3'' touchscreen, combining worst ideas of iPhone and Windows Phone ("you can't run a program more than once", etc). The secondary mode, "gnome-fallback" is a bad joke too -- no usable panel, no desktop, no messing with the menu (try right clicking... try dragging...).
Hear, hear. As a very happy Fedora
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Not a huge step back - I'm using Xfce with my favourite GNOME apps and it's not annoying me (which is my primary criterion).
IMPORTANT: If using Xubuntu, install fresh - any Unity infection on the system will mess with Xfce because it uses GTK+.
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Play on words (Score:2)
Is "Trinity" a deliberate allusion to "Unity"?
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Is "Trinity" a deliberate allusion to "Unity"?
No. Unity is merely one third of Trinity.
Its name is one of the few honest aspects of Unity.
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Is "Trinity" a deliberate allusion to "Unity"?
No. I believe it's a reference to the Holy Trinity.
As I understand it, Mr. Pearson is a devout Christian.
LK
Don't you love OSS? (Score:2)
This is one of the best things about OSS. Anyone can fork and when there is a strong need, the fork will happen.
I'm spoilt for choice
I pitty the slaves of a their Master's view of computing (yes, fanboys, I mean you)
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My main working laptop is still on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS and it's getting quite long in the tooth with the lack of up to date software features, even at base libraries level. For the time being, i practically have no upgrade path either, so if i want a particular up to date software package i am often forced dget -x/dpkg-buildpackage it from either Debia
Does anyone here use this? (Score:2)
Do any of you happen to know if KAudio Creator still works in Trinity? I've yet to find a CD ripper that actually works anywhere near as well as KAudio Creator for ripping tons of disk at a time, I open an instance for each drive and it works beautifully. All the rest of the rippers I've used are buggy as hell or more complicated than I want to deal with for the size of collection I have to rip (what's with K3B skipping the first track? It's been a known bug for a long time). I might throw Trinity on th
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Damn! (Score:3)
After my release-day copy of KDE 3.5 just finished compiling, too! Of all the luck...
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Yay, thanks Trinity team!!
Re:Someone please... (Score:5, Informative)
Someone did:
https://github.com/Perberos/Mate-Desktop-Environment [github.com]
http://k3rnel.net/2011/06/22/bluebubble-the-fine-manual/ [k3rnel.net]
Not sure how much mileage there is in these, though. Working on upgrading the crippled 'fallback' mode of Gnome 3 to something a bit closer to the Gnome 2 Panel might be more worthwhile in the long run. Meanwhile, there's Xfce.
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Personally, I'm an XFCE convert. The Xubuntu variant looks and feels very similar to the classic GNOME 2 Ubuntu, it's not overly flashy looking (I don't want my GUI to dazzle, I want it to stay out of my applications' way), and it's relatively hardware friendly. It's not as diligent about being slim as it used to be- but that's not necessarily a bad thing when I'm trying to use it as a full desktop environment on modern hardware.
Although I've never tried GNOME 3. Not a big fan of Unity for normal usage, alt
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Question for you: what is the program selection mechanism? Is it a drop-down menu like in Gnome2? Arranged by category (Accessories, Office, Games, Internet)?
Or do you have to right-click on the desktop to get a menu? Thereby implying you have to leave part of the desktop uncovered to work.
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Xfce is pretty much what Gnome used to be. It's fairly simple but configurable and comes with a handful of dock applets - with all Gnome 2 dock applets being avail
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I have to agree that forking GNOME 2 isn't quite as appealing as it might first sound. GNOME 3's fallback mode already works excellently (I use it!), and work really ought to be focused on refining that instead.
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Why do you hate freedom? A major point of open source is so that if you're dissatisfied with the direction a vendor goes, you can fork and maintain locally. That's what's going on here. You don't have to fucking use it, jerk.
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Oh yeah, well I'm going to fork Trinity to make it more like KDE 4!
Re:Trinity 3.5 (Score:5, Interesting)
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because change is NOT always good.
The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority. I have never experienced the level of outright frustration as when the KDE Plasma Weather Widget got stuck in a constant crash-restart loop and the KDE Crash Reporter burnt up all my RAM (in addition to stealing focus constantly.) In KDE 3.5 I could've simply killed the widget process. But in KDE4, no, I can;t, because killing the widget process wipes out my launcher, my desktop icons, my taskbar - all the critical system components I need to even do so much as load a damn terminal to kill the widget. Yes, I know, Ctrl-Alt-F2, but having to deal with that in the first place is just the solution that proves there's a problem.
I now run GNOME2. I tried GNOME3, Unity, and even KDE4. And I mean for 2-3 weeks each. I couldn't stand any of them. It's not that each has their little annoyances. I mean, GNOME2 is slap full of those as well. Rather, my issue with the latest generation of WMs is simply that they're growing more and more devoid of choice. Want a launcher on the left side? Good luck! Maybe loading another separate desktop widget system? Why would you want that?! Every little thing I try to do, these new WMs tell me "I can't do that." I'm not using GNOME2 because I love the eye candy (I prefer the LOOK of GNOME3, actually.) I'm using it because every time I want to do something that's not the default, GNOME2 lets me do it. It's the "have it your way" WM. Nothing in the latest generation actually offers that level of freedom-as-in-choice.
When the taskbar and program launcher (preferably a menu) in KDE4 is its own separate process, THEN I'll try it again. Critical system components should NOT be freaking widgets! That is dumb. And I will not upgrade to "dumber and choice-less" just because it looks pretty, else I could just go get a Mac.
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The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority.
And by "the desktop" you probably mean "a folder". I don't know about you, but my real wooden desktop doesn't look like a folder at all. Instead, it's filled with post-it notes, pencils, sometimes a notebook, a computer, a phone, a lamp and a Rubik cube. In short, it's filled with gadgets.
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It may be filled with gadgets, but it doesnt crash and burn just because a pencil tip gets broken off.
"The Desktop" is and has always been nothing but a very poor metaphor anyway. Get your damn desktop off my root window! ;)
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Damn right. The purpose of the root window is to provide something to click on to display the main menu, and somewhere to place iconified windows. Kids these days with their "shortcut icons" and "widgets" ...
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So you probably know this already, but for the benefit of similarly-minded but less-knowledgeable readers, there are many desktop environments for Linux -- open source breeds choice, after all.
We're mostly a KDE shop where I work, but there are users using xfce, fvwm, and xmonad here, and one who swears by gnome, but launches it from KDM, because our system has its big warning banner set up for KDM but not GDM or XDM.
So if they end-of-life gnome2 out from under you, you still have options.
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He acknowledged that, had you cared to read a few more sentences before jumping to reply.
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>The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop
Former OS/2 user here.
The Desktop should be an object just like any other object in the environment.
I take umbrage with your insistence that the root window is somehow special.
Also, your rant is otherwise so full of holes I will stop there since I would wind up writing a dissertation.
--
BMO - former KDE4 hater.
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The desktop should not be a widget, gadget, or any other form of "app" because it's the desktop. It's supposed to take priority.
Then why you are using a GNOME 2.x where desktop is actually a Nautilus?
You did know that Nautilus is used to draw the desktop? Right?
And you did know that you can run just KWin as it is the window manager and you dont need to load a shell, the plasma? Right?
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I wish my desktop was a nautilus :)
Unfortunately they don't live long above their normal depths, shorter still out of water...
Re:Trinity 3.5 (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because not all change is good?
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KDE 4.7 is actually quite nice.
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Good for you? Not everyone agrees, though.
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But as is usually the case, the shouting is largely unidirectional. "Zomg, new shit sucks, it's totally unusable, I'm never going to use this, you're all jerks if you like it, get off my lawn."
It's a grating and juvenile process. Every time something gets an overhaul, everyone screams that "new isn't better", as if that's insightful. We all
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I'm glad Gnome3 is working for you.
From my perspective, what's juvenile is: Desktop developers are paid by companies (Redhat, Novell, etc.) that get paid by companies that do actual work. Those developers then waste that money coming up with Fischer-Price interfaces that hinder people in doing real work as opposed to maybe opening up a single instance of Firefox for 30min, and then shutting down the computer. (Oops, you can't even shut down the computer in Gnome3 anymore, they took that option away.)
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As for the rest, that's the kind of inflammatory stuff I'm talking about. The fact that you don't like it doesn't mean they're "juvenile". They're trying to do something better, and many of us feel that they have. Apparently that includes the people that sign checks.
So as I said befo
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I apologize if Gnome has now added back the shutdown option to the normal user menu.
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then do with your feelings like you suggest they do with their software. getting upset at others behavior in this case is pretty emo. you can't expect them not to express this dissatisfaction with the new software while you readily express yours about their expression.
I can understand getting upset when what's being touted as a replacement for an environment you depend on is complete crap. While there is nothing wrong with removing unneeded complexity to gain simplicity, today's trend in software (and gui)
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So I guess I should clarify... I don't get suicidal or otherwise overly emotional when people piss and moan. Not sure where that came from. It's just the routine we go through every time someone overhauls something.
Constructive criticism is good. Bug reports are good. Even just disliking something is fine (I used to be a kde guy). But the childish tantrums, hateful nonsense and false accusations are both boring and worthless. Some peopl
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Your response to me in this thread twice is somewhat interesting.
My points have been that 1) it's personal preference (which you agreed with me on) and 2) KDE 4 has improved. So you imply you don't agree with me, agree with me in one response, and then you continue to seem intent on arguing what, exactly?
I thought about as much. Your responses to other posters resort to ad hominem attacks, name calling, and straw men. I suspect you're perhaps a little too emotionally involved in this debate, even though mos
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I love that users can actually continue using their loving software, even if corporation or community what is responsible maintaining the software is heading own direction.
I love KDE4 more than KDE 3.5 and that is because the speed and simplicity with great amount of features and now since 4.7 there is more than what 3.5 had. I have even ran 4.7 on old AMD Athlon 1800Mhz, 1 Gigabyte RAM with Nvidia GT4xxx and it just worked fine without problems. The HDD was bottleneck and when I tried SSD on it by swapping
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Why do we have to fight change every step of the way?
Because not all change is progress.
I'm one of those people who absolutely despise KDE4. I used several versions and then two years ago, I discovered Trinity KDE. I think it's wonderful. If not for Trinity KDE, I would have gone with xfce or something else, but I lost all interest in KDE with the 4.x series.
LK
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nothing wrong with fighting BAD change.
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Gnome 2 is the root of the problem, actually. Gnome 3 is just following the (flawed) decisions and judgements that lead to Gnome 2 to their logical conclusions. If you really want a useable Gnome you need to go back to Tranquilty and fork from there.
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I think that they've continued the KDE 3.5.x versions, IIRC this was marked 3.5.13 (but since link is slashdotted, can't be sure).
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The problem is that Slashdot, like most other communities, tends to hold onto widely accepted opinions even if they aren't currently true (or correct). Like you, I agree: Early KDE 4 releases weren't up to par, but 4.7 is very, very well done. But, because there's this preconceived
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Or, you know, people have different tastes and opinions from you? No, can't be. It has to be just myths and FUD, right?
Oh yeah, it is very well done (Score:3)
So please explain WHY in godsname KDE insists on copying a movie file from a samba share before playing it in a capable player? That is just plain annoying on small files but when you are talking about 20gb files it is just plain silly. This kind of thing is so fucking basic and since the same player can just play from the share with other desktops it is a complete and utter failure on the KDE team to prioritize on basic functionality over bling.
KDE dropped the ball. Polishing a turned over several releases
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You miss his point. The player in question can directly stream from an smb:// URL - but the file manager is not aware of it, and assumes that it needs to make a local copy of the file before handing it over to the player.
And, IIRC, didn't this work as it should in KDE 3.x?
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>Just mount via the command line or via fstab.
And what then is the reason for the existence of virtual file systems?
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There is nothing fundamentally wrong about using a samba share, sorry. That problem with KDE 4 persists no matter what sort of a share you're using: if it's not visible in the filesystem, there is usually no streaming. It sucks.
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You can mount samba shares directly into the filesystem :)
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Sharing over Samba is quick and easy: there are graphical tools for it, and pretty much every Linux distro has the client tools preinstalled. NFS is balls (forcing me to use the same UID on every machine? Well I guess I can spend a week learning how to configure LDAP or Kerberos...). AFP is capable, so if you only have Macs and Linux, that would work too, although SMB works about as well on a Mac as it does on Windows.
Re:Bring back CmdrTaco (Score:5, Informative)
KDE 4.7 is up to par with what?
- Printing is not "up to par". KDE 3.5 used to have a printing system that anyone could envy, in KDE 4.x printing barely works (bug 180051)
- PIM is not "up to par". KDE 3.5 used to have a sync feature, a bit clumsy, but it worked. The sync feature in KDE 4.x is only available in SVN and barely works. And don't get me started with syncing with my phone...
And I could cite you the bug database all day, giving you an example of bugs that make features really uncomfortable to use. I am subscribed to at least a dozen bugs, all that affect my productivity, while in KDE 3.5 I had little or no issues.
- I have issues with network shares.
- I have issues with instant messaging (granted, some of them existed with 3.5, but the fixes were commited right before the KDE 4 fiasco started)
- I have issues with the text editors
- I have issues with using KDE over SSH
- I have issues with performance (maybe I should upgrade my ancient quad-core PC with 8 GB RAM)
Most of these are not fixed in 4.7, which is not available for all distros yet, so even if they were, it doesn't matter. You know, KDE 3.5 was stable, mature and polished. KDE used to be a pain in the ass, but with 3.5 all the issues slowly disappeared. It was already available everywhere, in all distros. KDE 4.7 just got out, and it's filled with issues I cursed KDE 3.3 or 3.4 for. Compared to KDE 3.5, KDE 4.7 is still crap. And slow.
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Here's what you said:
Here's what I actually said.
I did not say that KDE 4.7 is up to par completely with 3.x's later releases, but I did state that it's "very, very well done." While I appreciate your efforts at putting words into my mouth, I'm somewhat disappointed that you had to twist my words to do so. Not that I'm surprised; this is Slashdot, after all.
1) I will concede that KDE 4 is not as feature co
Bring back 1920x1200 (Score:3)
Of course, there's also the group that wants to run it on 6+ year old hardware
This is posted from a laptop which is 8 years old, buddy. It runs Lubuntu 10.04 LTS, and rocks with it (LXDE). It was starting to suck a bit with Ubuntu 10.04 (Gnome 2) and with PCLinuxOS 2009 (KDE 3.something), but LXDE purged the bloat and revived the hardware.
other OSes like Windows 7 likely won't work well on very old hardware either.
In what way is that relevant? The laptop of which I spoke came with original XP (pre SP1), which ran OK on it, but sucked in so many ways (starting with the applications). I can't imagine running Win7 on it; probably more like staggering or slither
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Gee, I make a single (okay, a couple) posts praising KDE, and every single clown who has an axe to grind with the project feels that they need to speak up about their bizarre edge cases all while attempting to poke holes in my "argument" when my points were essentially (and I'll simplify this so you can follow more easily):
1) I like KDE 4 better than alternatives, because it meshes well with my use cases and my tastes and preferences. This is entirely subjective and debating this is about as stupid as debat
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I suppose it's silly of me to comment on this, but really, what is wrong with posting this? Okay, so 4.7 is available. Why does that invalidate someone else's effort to fork the 3.x branch? I think you're getting hung up on version-itis, the idea that a larger version number is inherently better, or in a less confrontational manner of putting it, that the changes in a higher version number inherently represent progress. Major version number changes are not necessarily better. Instead, think of it is signifi
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1. I've been using both, KDE 3 and 4 for years. I didn't make the switch because of "versionitis", but because 3.5 wasn't satisfying in various aspects (e.g. the broken menu editor, broken USB auto mounting, poor calendar storage format choices... I could continue this list endlessly).
2. What I'm questioning is not if "Trinity" is a good from a technical perspective, but the relevance of the project itself. People are free to do in their basements whatever they please, but not everything is worth being po
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what always annoyed me is the FUD that anything using 3D hardware is going to be slower. Maybe on a 2nd generation intel laptop model gfx chip, but you'd struggle to buy one. $5 can get you a basic GMA card well capable of it, and once you've offloaded your GFX to something which is -designed- to do that specific job, it's the opposite - it absolutely flies.
As for the "bloat" - people should try running top (or hitting ctrl-esc, since it's KDE). As the above says, QT4 is better than QT3, especially when
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There's quite a few of us who prefer 3.5 over the Windification that 4.x has become. For example, in 3.5 I have multiple desktops to organize my work flows but under 4.x they decided to toss the baby out with the bath water and switch to the single desktop paradign. Doesn't help me get work done due to destroying years of customizations to support my workflows.
Simply put, if I wanted to use Windows, I'd damn well install it and throw out my productivity, yet I prefer to get stuff done, meaning that 3.5 stil
Re:Bring back CmdrTaco (Score:5, Insightful)
This story is extremely relevant to the Slashdot community. No doubt that KDE 4.7 is well-refined. However, KDE 4 and KDE 3 differ significantly in both how they are developed and how they are used. To have the KDE 3.5 forked into an actively-developed fork will not downplay KDE 4's significance nor its own active development. This just gives us users a choice between two considerably different desktop environments. People who like KDE 4 will stay with it, and people who don't like KDE 4 abandoned it a long time ago, so there's no harm done by keeping its predecessor alive under a different name.
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Yeah, Taco would fix it. Sure. Crappy stories are *new* on slashdot. Heck, if he's gone for another month, I wouldn't be surprised if duplicate stories started popping up now that he's departed. Maybe even a story with a typo in it.
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/.'ers waiting for the return of CmdrTaco ...
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...and stop posting irrelevant stories like this on the front page. KDE 4.0 was horrible, yes, but it's not like KDE 4 development was halted. The latest release is 4.7 and it's much more stable and feature rich than 3.5 ever was.
There's no question that KDE4 is now plenty stable. However, there must be plenty of people like me who: Can't stand the unintuitive way the UI of plasma applets and controls work; and/or strongly disagree with KDE's current "semantic desktop" goals.
After a couple of years of use, I really haven't found anything in KDE4 that's a compelling improvement over KDE3 other than that KDE4 is still actively maintained. What's worse for me, KDE4 has introduced many UI "features" that I find to be very annoying. (Ma
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well...
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=277010 [kde.org]
(granted, after mere 3 month and a huge flamewar, we got a status update!)
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I agree with your right to choose to think it's "retarded".
I disagree with your claim that it is a waste of time.
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"Ahead" how? Your statement assumes that there is some sort of objective, linear measure of progress that is universally agreed on as such, and that is far from the case. People that work as 'UI designers' naturally want everything changing all the time to keep themselves in work, but *users* of the software might well prefer that they quit breaking things that work.
Most people I know that use it seem to think that KDE 4.7 has mostly "caught up" with 3.5, a statement based on the
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just say'en (or repeating) " if it ain't broke don't fix it " seems how i keep hearing that i not understand it. you know becaus of the kde3 - kde4 shinangians. ( i still have debian on all my machines because of it )
I used to be a Mandriva user. I stuck with Spring 2007 just because I didn't want to give up KDE 3.5. For me, the deciding factor to move to Ubuntu was Trinity KDE. I would still be using Mandriva 2007 if not for Trinity.
LK