Avira Premium Anti-Virus Bug Disables Windows Machines 151
New submitter Adesso writes "Anti-virus vendor Avira is having difficulty with an update of all their Premium customers. An update that has been downloaded over 70 million times is causing the 32-bit version of Windows to block almost all critical applications. Avira has responded promptly with an interim solution for this problem. In most cases this causes Windows to not boot properly."
Why, oh why... (Score:5, Funny)
Couldn't we be using Avira at work?
Then I could go home and play Diablo.
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but ... but ... but pirates!
Seriously, wtf. D2 sold gajillions of copies and had working single player and LAN. You could be sitting out in the middle of the desert with a solar panel and a netbook and play with your friends.
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There is already a pirated version that doesn't require you to be online :)
I downloaded it off demonoid, and picked up the skidrow patch and can enjoy it offline.. never liked playing diablo online as it was just chain lightning spam and KEKEKEKE's all over the screen anyhow
so demonoid single player is perfect
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Hm, I can't seem to get to skidrow's website. Are they slashdotted?
This crack allows actual singleplayer, right? This is relevant to my interests since my ISP is so lossy (~20% packet loss) that I can only play SP.
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Hm, I can't seem to get to skidrow's website.
...facepalm
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I took the day off to play it too, I'm just getting ready to install it. I sure hope I don't have problems...
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Figures, it finally installed and the battle.net servers are down. Go Blizzard!
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Artificial intelligence (Score:5, Funny)
It's a classic case of artificial intelligence vs. human stupidity. The artificial intelligence algorithm employed by Avira for keeping computers secure has determined that the only way to achieve real security for most users it's to turn the PC into a brick. Some people are simply too stupid to wander online unsupervised, so it's for their own protection. If you can restore your computer to normal operation, you have just passed the test and you are worthy of computer access.
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I thought that should be funny more than insightful, but oh well...
It sounds like the free version is unaffected. I find that kind of interesting, you wind up paying for more features that invariably breaks your machine..
I guess I'll find out if the free version is affected, as I've installed Avira Free on a few people's personal computers. They'll probably think they've gotten a virus and bring it back to me for repair.
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"I thought that should be funny more than
insightful, but oh well..."
Once upon a slashdot past funny mods gave karma. These days though the better the laugh, the insightfuller the mod. How times have changed!
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No. It's not an AI test. Instead it's aliens trying to determine if there's inteligent life here.
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No. It's not an AI test. Instead it's aliens trying to determine if there's inteligent life here.
Stubborn aliens these of you! :-)
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Update immediately; update immediately. (Score:3)
Still think this is good advice? Worse is when the vendor forces the update silently w/o informing the user. Then suddenly your PC is broke or browser and you don't know why.
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Some people can't be bothered to install updates themselves and even if they could they don't know how to analyze and see if they need the update or not.
For them automatic updates make the most sense. Of course if the company pushing out the updates isn't competent you probably shouldn't be using their products at all in the first place, manual or automatic updates.
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That means I would stop using Microsoft and Apple (both have pushed updates that broke the computer). Then what would I do?
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Ubuntu is the answer, especially if you're a desktop user and don't play games.
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Ubuntu GNUlinux also has pushed updates that have broken things in the past, so no it isn't the answer.
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Wait a minute... I'm not saying updates were flawless, but at least with Ubuntu I never got something updated without my consent. I mean, no automatic updates. The OS checks, tells you "here be updates" and you check the ones you want. I have configured Windows the same way as well, it never adds updates by itself.
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That means I would stop using Microsoft and Apple (both have pushed updates that broke the computer). Then what would I do?
Well, I'd say Linux if I hadn't updated to 12.04 on Sunday and had Flash break.
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Then suddenly your PC is broke or browser and you don't know why.
My PC is always broke; I won't let it have a wallet.
But it has never become browser.
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Depends on the size of his company. If his company is one with 30,000 employees, then yes, you'd expect them to have an IT department that tests everything beforehand, doesn't use MS's update servers, etc. However, if his company has 50 employees, that's not a reasonable assumption at all, and they probably only have one "IT guy" who's already overworked, and expecting them to do their own Windows updates is pretty silly.
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I do install antivirus software on other people's computers. But you don't update stuff ASAP. Yes viruses are a risk, but so are mistakes by software vendors. And AV software makes your computer system slower- you pay for that all the time.
FWIW I'm one of those that
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Car analogy: rally cars and F1 cars do not have airbags. But the drivers are still safer in the same sort of crashes.
Because the drivers know what they are doing and the cars have other protections configured. Airbags in those scenarios would just cause more problems than they'd solve.
Same goes for antivirus software. If you know what you are doing, antivirus software is more likely to cause you problems than viruses are.
My different browsers (for different tasks) run using different user accounts. So even
Wow... McAfee 2.0... (Score:5, Insightful)
I guess that's one more to add to my list of AV products I recommend against.
But hey, they'll give you a month free subscription for your troubles*.
*Hyperbole, they'll most likely give users nothing.
Cheers!
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The big surprise for me is they have 70 million paying customers. I'm in the wrong business!
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I think if you blacklist every AV vendor for random f-ups you wouldn't have any left to buy from. I've had issues in the past with: Trend Micro, McAfee, Symantec, AVG (most recent - they decided to bundle 32-bit binaries for 64-bit machines and this causes all 64-bit machines to bluescreen), ESET (issues with our accounting systems) and probably others I've forgotten about. This is mixed personal and work experiences.
So far I've had OK luck with MSE at home, but I'm sure at some point Microsoft will screw t
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Well, I guess that's the only way they can get people to use Bing... ;)
Found the link to the slashdot article [slashdot.org].
McAfee (Score:3, Insightful)
It seems Avira is taking a page out of McAfee's playbook.
AVG had a problem like this years ago (Score:5, Informative)
When AVG caused a boot failure several years ago I switched started switching everyone who asked to Microsoft Security Essentials; still seems to be the best free one. At work I'm happy with NOD32; I suppose that they could have a similar problem, but they've been really good so far.
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Several years ago? MSE is that old?
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MSE came out in fall 2009, so not quite 3 years ago; IIRC the AVG issue was probably earlier that year and made me start looking around for the best replacement & MSE came out to generally good reviews. I find that MSE with an occasional Malwarebytes scan will keep most people's home machines pretty clear, even people with teenagers...
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Pretty sure that AVG issue is the one I mentioned in another post, where they mixed 32-bit binaries in the package for 64-bit installation. Pretty sure that happened in 2010, as we switched at work to ESET in early 2011 because the lack of AVG's QA.
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Except that MSE routeenly doesnt detect shit!
I ran it for a year or so after it first came out. Then one day i had popups on a machine. MSE said it was clean, MSE in another machine said it was clean (with hard drive removed and put in other machine). Only aviria was able to find the virus.
That said, aviria is godawful. The software itself shows popups forcing you to blacklist avnotify.exe with local group policies (yuk!) and they really push their premium version down your throats. Despite this, it does ha
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I just had my machine get totally infected last month by some Java-spread garbage. MSSE was useless. I tried several programs, and Avast did by far the best job at detecting and removing the infection. It's my new AV of choice.
I also switched to Chrome and set it so that I have to click to run any Java or Flash crap. Hopefully that'll help prevent drive-by attacks in the future that exploit the gaping security holes in Java and Flash.
people still use antivirus software? (Score:1)
Anti-virus programs cannot stop you from getting viruses. They can only react after the fact. Their updates are by necessity reactive: a virus appears, and it takes time to update definition files to detect it.
And even once that happens, once ring0 is compromised on a box, it is not possible to trust that box again without a full OS reinstall. Anti-virus programs can attempt to clean things up, OK for casual web browsing, but not for anything you must trust. The only safe recovery is a reinstall.
The only
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I went to a Sophos event once (mostly because it was catered...), the only content I remember was one speaker who spent 10 minutes of his presentation time showing various screenshots of web sites and asking the audience whether they were phishing scams, or the real thing. Towards the end it was very difficult, and this was an audience of technical IT people.
I also don't trust an OS once it has been compromised, and I agree that actually thinking/paying attention is vital to complete security. For me it i
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If a phisher does things "properly" the phish site should look EXACTLY like the real thing, and it should even have the same stupid check pictures/words that some sites like to have.
You'd do stuff like check the certificates, including who they are signed by, and contacting the bank if you think their site has been pwned. Get some sort of document trai
Re:people still use antivirus software? (Score:5, Insightful)
Erh... no.
Anti-virus programs cannot stop you from getting viruses. They can only react after the fact. Their updates are by necessity reactive: a virus appears, and it takes time to update definition files to detect it.
First of all, there is very, very little "new" malware. Ok, there's lots, but very, very little thereof actually becomes a problem. There are only so many that actually become a worldwide problem. What happens is that big malware packages that actually constitute a problem come in thousands, if not millions, of variants. Often just differing in some minor points, like their C&C server, their encryption, their packaging... think of a biological virus that mutates just a little while having essentially the same payload. Modern AV toolkits come with very sophisticated heuristic algorithms that can to some extent find simple mutations easily, as you can easily see if you watch the various AV kit tests closely. To test it, they take a signature file from a few months ago and test how many of the more recent attacks they can identify. It's not perfect, but some come close to 95%. No, that is not perfect. But we're far from "can only identify after the fact".
And even once that happens, once ring0 is compromised on a box, it is not possible to trust that box again without a full OS reinstall. Anti-virus programs can attempt to clean things up, OK for casual web browsing, but not for anything you must trust. The only safe recovery is a reinstall.
There is always the option to boot your machine with a known-clean OS and run a scan, which is bundled with pretty much all AV toolkits worth their salt today. Usually the CD you get with your AV toolkit is a Linux boot disc with a fitting scanner, most of the time working in a way that you slip in the DVD, boot the machine, get updates for the signature and have it scan your machine. If you don't feel like buying a AV toolkit, some of those scanners are also available online or as part of computer magazines.
The only way to practice safe computing is to *not run malicious software* in the first place. This is fortunately not difficult to do.
This is unfortunately NOT possible to do. At least if running Windows. And only because Windows is the prime target, dear Mac/Linux fanboys, those systems are by no means any safer. Just less interesting as a target.
You do NOT know whether the browser you use or any plugin it uses has any security holes. Adobe has recently been notorious for having security holes in its PDF reader and Flash Player for browsers. Now, you can of course avoid reading PDFs and watch Flash ... well, actually, often you can NOT. Many whitepapers only come in PDF format and more and more webpages are simply inaccessible without Flash. Now, of course you can run a few different browsers, each with different sets of plugins and whatnot... which still does not constitute perfect security.
The human brain is the only perfect anti-virus utility in existence.
You expect the average computer user to use it? I do not know what rays come out of computers, but it must be some kind of stupifying rays, they can turn people holding PhDs into bumbling fools. The alien mindbenders from Zak McKracken could not have come up with a better device.
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You do NOT know whether the browser you use or any plugin it uses has any security holes. Adobe has recently been notorious for having security holes in its PDF reader and Flash Player for browsers. Now, you can of course avoid reading PDFs and watch Flash ... well, actually, often you can NOT. Many whitepapers only come in PDF format and more and more webpages are simply inaccessible without Flash. Now, of course you can run a few different browsers, each with different sets of plugins and whatnot... which
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To you, yes, maybe. To the average user, hardly.
I'm also pretty sure the average mechanic dreads the mass of computer gizmos in today's cars that make tinkering with it near impossible, while the average standard guy certainly welcomes them because now he gets a pretty good idea what's wrong instead of that simple "failure" light going on... or that engine stopping without any good reason.
The point is that you're an expert for the machine you're using. You're a minority, though. 99% or more of the people us
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I should have added this to my previous post. These measures are also much more effective than antivirus. For example, my boss has had several viruses on his computer in the past year. Not one of them was detected by the university mandated antivirus, or his own antivirus. They were all detected simply by noticing the computer was behaving strangely.
On the other hand, I disabled the university antivirus, and simply use the precautions I mentioned earlier. I haven't had one noticable infection. I could
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Don't get me wrong, but the statistician in me says that your sample size is a tad bit small...
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And only because Windows is the prime target, dear Mac/Linux fanboys, those systems are by no means any safer. Just less interesting as a target
I heard this quote/excuse same time ago but I still do not believe it. Most of the servers are running Linux and a server it's a bigger target than a home computer. For the moment being Linux is safer. The user space is more strictly enforced than a Windows machine. Looking historically Linux came from a server platform with strictly enforced security and move to a desktop/more user friendly distribution, and Windows started as a single user OS and goes to a more multi user platform. The legacy of both sys
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There is a very simple reason for this: Servers are usually run by admins who not only know what they're doing but also part of a company that has some rules concerning software used. They can't simply download any crap from anywhere and install it, much like private users would. The main attack vectors simply don't apply to commercial servers:
1. Manipulated webpages and browser bugs: Business servers are not used to browse the internet.
2. Mislabeled software (malware disguised as some tool): Gets weeded ou
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The user space is more strictly enforced than a Windows machine. Looking historically Linux came from a server platform with strictly enforced security and move to a desktop/more user friendly distribution, and Windows started as a single user OS and goes to a more multi user platform.
Who cares? Malware these days doesn't need ring-0 access. It doesn't need kernel access. All it needs is the ability to watch keystrokes in userland, and to open outbound connections on port 25 (and maybe 80). Whether the user space is "more strictly enforced" is irrelevant.
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Allow me a car analogy, if I may be so bold.
Have you ever had a car accident? If not, why use safety belts? You're a safe driver, but still you buckle up, just 'cause it's the law (or not, depending on where you live)? Or because it just MIGHT save your life one day?
An AV kit is pretty much the same. Yes, I have not had an infection (other than deliberate ones to study the pests), but then again, I'm not 100% fully and absolutely alert all the time when sitting in front of the machine. One wrong click is al
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But I guess we can agree that the safest practice is still to have a seat belt and drive like you don't have one?
How does the interim solution work? (Score:2)
How does the interim solution get implemented if the machine won't boot?
In ye olden days, if you compiled a new linux kernel, deleted the old one, forgot to run lilo, it doesn't reboot, then the solution was to boot and run lilo, which was a task that separated the men from the boys, err it wasn't that difficult, maybe separated the 7 year olds from the 6 year olds or whatever. Anyway...
Also a note to the editors, that link would have been a million times funnier if it pointed to a ubuntu.com live cdrom/dv
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How does the interim solution get implemented if the machine won't boot?
Magic, how else?
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How does the interim solution get implemented if the machine won't boot?
External media. CD, USB, whatever is handy. That's another way Linux is ahead of Windows, you can usually fix an unbootable computer easily.
I had a similar situation with McAfee (Score:2)
So, it works. (Score:2)
Too well.
Very effective security. (Score:5, Funny)
This is a very effective security measure. If your system cannot boot it cannot get infected.
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yes, and if it is infected, the virus cannot do any harm!
Now *that's* secure (Score:2)
Just need to encase the PC in cement and bury it at sea, and then those evil hackers will never be able to get to it! ... of course, that's going to cost you extra....
It happened to me... (Score:3)
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Its a feature (Score:1)
If you can't fix it, feature it.
At least that is the mantra at my company.
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Avira--ask about free bricking!
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You work for Apple? And how does that work in this case: Avira--ask about free bricking!
Guaranteed virus protection if you can't log into your computer.
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Total failure (Score:3)
I've seen this before (Score:5, Informative)
My list of serious bugs in AV products:
Panda (ancient versions) - failed to install correctly, impossible to uninstall. Two botched Windows XP installations.
BitDefender (relatively recent) - very messed-up definition file marked ALL executables as infected, putting them in quarantine. I still have the feeling any malicious executables would not have been marked.
Kaspersky 2012 - screws up Windows Home Server (v.1 and 2011) connector, has to be disabled for backups to work
McAfee - Won't even protect anything if the license has expired. Still bloats up your computer, though.
Norton - everything you've heard is true. It's impossible to uninstall, it's a resource hog, blocks stuff randomly...
The one exception so far is MSE - considering the amount of malware the others have caught so far (less than 10 times, if you count tests as detections), how light it is and how it doesn't piss you off, it's my favorite.
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I've had good results with ClamAV on a USB drive, together with spybot S&D, Hijack This, and portable Firefox, there ain't much that combination can't deal with.
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There are two more exceptions. Microsoft Antivirus and snake oil. Both offer no real protection for your PC. Not sure MSE offers more. AV can't be lightweight without taking shortcuts in security checks.
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MSE does take shortcuts (though newer versions are better at actually protecting your computer).
However, personal experience just tells me that the bloated laternatives don't help much anyway.
Wow (Score:2)
An anti-virus software that gets to the root of the problem! :-)
So... (Score:3)
Does anyone have a quick writeup of what versions of Windows are affected? The...summary...declares "32-bit versions of Windows" - so, just 32-bit - is that everything? Does it stop at XP? What about some poor fool running Windows ME - how is s/he going to cope or does s/he even have to worry? Is it really just 32-bit Windows versions or will this affect a 64-bit Windows install running a 32-bit version of Avira? I really appreciate it when we get a summary with no actual article on it, just links to Avira's forums and website.
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They probably did what I tend to do -- develop on 64-bit Windows and then completely forget to test the Win32 build.
WOPR heuristics. (Score:2)
If Premium disables the machine (Score:2)
Does the Lite editing cause your machine burst into flames and burn down half your house after posting compromising photos to Facebook?
Finally. . . (Score:1)
. . . antivirus software that keeps the Windows virus from spreading!
These are the same geniuses... (Score:4, Interesting)
that recently had Avira anti-virus identify itself as malware:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/10/26/avira_auto_immune_false_positive/ [theregister.co.uk]
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That is actually an interesting idea, I wonder how the trolls would abuse it.
And just to be clear, even though it would be abused by trolls, that isn't a reason to not try it.
Re:For crying out loud (Score:4, Insightful)
Nobody has ever produced a single email or a distruntled employee rating out or any other kind of actual hard evidence that any company is paying for comments on slashdot of all places - a mostly irrelevant website in the larger tech world. Although, depending on your level of personal narcisism you might have an overinflated sense of importance of the things that in reality nobody is paying attention to.
THIS. Does anybody out there really think corporations are going to spend real money paying people to argue with anonymous idiots on a site that 99.9% of the population doesn't even know exists? Someone please explain how Slashdot has any sort of "sway" in the consumer electronics industry.