Google On-shores Manufacturing of the Nexus Q 326
An anonymous reader sends this quote from the NY Times:
"Etched into the base of Google's new wireless home media player that was introduced on Wednesday is its most intriguing feature. On the underside of the Nexus Q is a simple inscription: Designed and Manufactured in the U.S.A. The Google executives and engineers who decided to build the player here are engaged in an experiment in American manufacturing. 'We've been absent for so long, we decided, "Why don't we try it and see what happens?" ... It has become accepted wisdom that consumer electronics products can no longer be made in the United States. During the last decade, abundant low-cost Chinese labor and looser environmental regulations have virtually erased what was once a vibrant American industry. ... At $299, the device costs significantly more than competing systems from companies like Apple and Roku. Google says this is in part because of the higher costs of manufacturing in the United States, but the company expects to bring the price down as it increases volume. The company is hoping that consumers will be willing to pay more, though it is unlikely that the “Made in America” lineage will be part of any marketing campaign.'"
It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
"The company is hoping that consumers will be willing to pay more, though it is unlikely that the “Made in America” lineage will be part of any marketing campaign.'"
People excoriate execs and companies who move parts of their businesses offshore (often rightly, and also often without questioning the policies that contribute to it often being cheaper and easier to employ people thousands of miles away in other countries).
They (and especially the most indignant among them) should be happy to pay a little more to keep the work local; after all, they're demanding that others do it.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
"Keeping jobs on American soil. There's a phone for that."
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Informative)
Except this is not the phone or tablet. This is their social media player.
The Nexus 7 tablet is not what is being discussed here and that is still at $199
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, though it's hard to bug anyone about getting them mixed up. Nexus S, Nexus Q, Nexus 7... uhg. What would've been so wrong with: Nexus Phone, Nexus TV, Nexus Tablet? Then just call later generations, "second generation", etc.
Someone over at Google needs to hire away a marketing genius from Apple and give them the reigns on public facing decisions like that.
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Well, in the case of the Q and the 7, I think just think of the shape of the Q, kinda roundish with something sticking out of it, and the 7 being... 7 inches? Is it? Anyway, Q is easy to remember.
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Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Funny)
The only winning move is not to Google Play.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Insightful)
For those experienced with android it tells you something:
Nexus = owned by google = apple equivalent experience = things will work right.
Buying non-nexus products = responsibilities on the shoulders of either the mfr or the carrier if it's a phone = shoddy experience = things are broken and will not be fixed.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Interesting)
I agree on the very different levels in quality of experience (that goes triple for us AT&T customers), and I don't think there's anything wrong with the Nexus part.
I just think they should swap the cryptic letter or number on their devices for something descriptive. I mean, this is an android friendly, relatively device savvy geek site, and the first handful of posts all got the devices mixed up. It ain't gunna be much better than that for the rest of the world.
Let's just hope they don't call Project Glass the Nexus C, for "See". ;)
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There's a balance which needs to be struck between easy to remember, and informative. The problem with "second generation" is that it tends to be dropped in marketing materials. A little over a year ago my cousin almost bought a Macbook which was on sale at a great price (for a Macbook) at his school's store. But he pretty well-versed in "if
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Insightful)
Raise your hand if you want "social media" mixed with your TV watching experience. *crickets*
Facebook wall activity: "Charles is watching Gilmore Girls on CWTV."
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
Raise your hand if you want "social media" mixed with your TV watching experience. *crickets*
You are asking in the wrong forum. I have no interest in this, but I think my wife would like it, and I am sure my kids would love it.
Slashdot is not a good place to get a representative sample of the consuming public.
Backwards (Score:3)
Raise your hand if you want "social media" mixed with your TV watching experience. *crickets*
Facebook wall activity: "Charles is watching Gilmore Girls on CWTV."
That's backwards. It's "Bill is watching videos his friends posted to Facebook. Hasn't watched TV in ages."
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Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Funny)
Well Apple keeps Jobs in American Soil, That has to count for something.
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Apple soils American jobs.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
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I would like to, but I will not pay for the Q if I made it.
I was hopeful that it would be an android computer for the living room, like a googletv but with more power. Instead it seems to be just for streaming music and video, stuff my HTPC handles just fine. An android computer would have been something I could replace the HTPC with, instead the Q only does a subset of what I want.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Informative)
Well some of the folks at Google I/O have been dutifully hacking away at these [engadget.com], which were in the goody bags.
I know it isn't a perfect solution, but maybe Google will see the potential. And in the meantime, if it turns out to be as hackable as the Nexus phones are, hooray for us.
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In good times that's easy to say, but in tough times and faced with paying $50 more many people end up in the store thinking "I really could use that money, and my #1 priority is looking out for myself, my family and the local community. This $50 won't make or break the US economy, but it matters a lot to me. I'll get the American next time, when the economy's better..." even if that's not what they tell their friends.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Interesting)
its not just americans that want things made-in-usa.
I'm quite aware of how bad manuf in china can be. CAN be. not always but most times, assembly is under too tight of a schedule and quality is not important; # of units is!
the US workers may not be under such slavish work conditions and chances are that they are treated better and make a living wage. sweatshops as not a US phenomenon anymore (well, if you excluse software houses, but that's a different tangent..)
the world would like to see china lose its foothold on 'all' manufacturing. collectively, we are tired of the bullshit that is china and their 'sell and run' mentality.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Interesting)
I live and work in China and my students are always mystified as to why a rich westerner would own any products that were made in China. I can't blame them for that, the Chinese products I buy here in China are of significantly lower quality than the ones I buy in the US.
More than that, companies don't offshore work because they want better quality, offshoring generally means that it's harder to maintain quality as it's harder to monitor the quality by the CEO and staff.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
They (and especially the most indignant among them) should be happy to pay a little more to keep the work local; after all, they're demanding that others do it.
It costs three times more ($299) than the closest competitor (Apple TV, $99) that it seems to have a similar feature-set to. That's not "a little more", that's "nobody will buy it because it costs three times more".
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I didn't say it was a good product, or a bad one, or that it was worth it. I said that its place of manufacture should be mentioned as it's relevant to many people - whether it's this particular product or any other, especially in an industry whose manufacturing largely occurs in other countries.
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To Americans, perhaps. To me, living in Canada, I'm not sure there is any marketing value in which foreign country it's manufactured in. The US is a big market, but not the only market.
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That's not "a little more", that's "nobody will buy it because it costs three times as much".
or, two times more.
FTFY.
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It doesn't even appear to support Netflix.
$300 for a glorified jukebox? Looks like a failure right out of the gate.
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How Apple should market AppleTV (Score:2)
Apple really should push the AirPlay device mirroring angle. I see it really being the ultimate iPad accessory -- it's awesome to be able to mirror stuff directly to the TV or play videos.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
They (and especially the most indignant among them) should be happy to pay a little more to keep the work local; after all, they're demanding that others do it.
Abso-fucking-lutely. Look at how many people out there gladly pay the Apple Tax for devices that are really not that different, on a fundamental level, from their competitors (and before I get screamed at over that, Apple obviously agrees, otherwise we wouldn't be watching this patent war bullshit unfold at every turn). If they're willing to spend extra because it's got a shiny case and "It Just Works! (TM)(R)(C)" then I see no reason why Made In America wouldn't be a selling point, especially these days.
The concept of it being "cheaper" to hire people in other countries is bullshit, anyway, because it depends on ignoring very real costs that are put off on those developing countries. If we paid the real cost of manufacturing in China, to include the future cost of environmental clean-up, not to mention the social ills that come along with those sweatshops, then I doubt it would really be that much cheaper to manufacture overseas. The costs go so far beyond the typical rants about hourly wages and regulations that don't allow factories to dump the byproducts of electronics manufacturing (noxious shit) into the environment like they do over there...
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Yeah but they want our money.
Later when they've grown a middle class, they can demand more like we do.
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Insightful)
Abso-fucking-lutely. Look at how many people out there gladly pay the Apple Tax for devices that are really not that different,
Except in the case of the Nexus Q [google.com] vs. the Apple TV (...or the WD TV Live) we seem to have a Google tax of 200%.
(TFA is talking about the 'Q' media streamer which is bizarrely more expensive than the new Google tablet).
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Its more consumer behavior than policies (Score:2)
People excoriate execs and companies who move parts of their businesses offshore (often rightly, and also often without questioning the policies that contribute to it often being cheaper and easier to employ people thousands of miles away in other countries).
Its more consumer behavior than policies. People's preference for a lower price, people's indifference for where a product is made. Offshoring is *not* some law of nature that will inevitably arise. Offshoring is a result of consumer behavior, the willingness to trade "local" manufacture for a lower price. Some people like to say that corporations will always seek the lowest cost of production, however they are only stating the first part of the "rule" and leaving off the "all other things being equal" cave
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It's a vicious cycle to an extent. The poorest people like to go to Walmart and pay the lowest possible prices for cheaply made Chinese manufactured products. People with a little more room in their budgets might be willing to pay for quality, but the poor can't afford that luxury. Seeing how well places like Walmart are doing, and how well manufacturer that outsource productions can control costs, more and more stores become like Walmart, and more and more manufacturers offshore production. This increa
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:5, Interesting)
"The company is hoping that consumers will be willing to pay more, though it is unlikely that the “Made in America” lineage will be part of any marketing campaign.'"
People excoriate execs and companies who move parts of their businesses offshore (often rightly, and also often without questioning the policies that contribute to it often being cheaper and easier to employ people thousands of miles away in other countries).
I use to work in manufacturing (wrote machine vision algorithms back then...fun stuff) and the cost can be very competitive with overseas. The key is design for manufacturing and automating as much as possible.
Labor isn't your highest expense when you have high-speed chip shooting lines and automated assembly processes. For a high volume builder such as Apple, the economies of scale work in it's favor too. Low volume manufacturing needs a board house to do the work otherwise capital equipment goes under utilized. That's not Apple or Google's problem.
I'm sure Apple and everyone's designs fit in the designed for manufacturability category so why not assemble in the states. Invest the capital on equipment and put some assemblers back to work!
I know having a lack of locally sourced parts (they are all over seas now, right?) will make it hard, but I would love to see leading brands bring manufacturing back to the states. For Apple, this would be a blessing in minimizing knock-offs and leaks anyway and a little less margin isn't going to put them out of business.
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They (and especially the most indignant among them) should be happy to pay a little more to keep the work local; after all, they're demanding that others do it.
You know that for most of the people neither Taiwan nor the US actually counts as "local"?
Or in other words: This ist not much more than off-shoring. From China.
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I will definitely replace my Motorola Atrix 4G with this phone.
I have often said right here that I'm willing to pay up to 2x for a product made in the US, up to 3x for a product that's made in the US by union workers, and up to 4x for product that's made locally by union workers (meaning within 30 miles).
I have done exactly that with my dress shirts
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(Or $299 to get a player like the cheaper apple tv.)
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Just like GoogleTV wasn't competing with the $99 Apple TV or the similarly priced Roku?
People generally have enough of a problem spending more to get more. Nevermind spending more to get the same but with a much less established brand.
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The tablet is $199 for the 8GB model and $249 for the $16GB model.
https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=nexus_7_8gb [google.com]
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I think he was suggesting that a 7" tablet made in the US would be $299 and was asking if people would be willing to pay that just because it's made in America.
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Actually, I merely mixed up Google products. They all seemed to be called Nexus.
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Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It *should* be part of the marketing (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the technical term is "Thing that drops 10 records at once from medium heights on the needle"
I had a record player that had one of those as a child but never found out what was actually supposed to make sure that only one record will fall down.
"Experiment" (Score:2)
Re:"Experiment" (Score:4, Insightful)
The real issue with this thing is it is too limited. Why does it not also act as a googletv?
Then it could run onlive, netflix, google play, etc. You could also side load your own apps. Instead this is a streaming media player for way too much money.
Why does it need a good amp? I have a receiver, that is where the good amp lives.
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That's just one side of it.
It's fine for something to be more expensive. It just has to be able to wipe the floor with the alternatives. That or it has to have a cult of personality associated with it.
If you don't have either then you're kind of doomed and all you are going to do is give on-shoring a bad name. People will intentionally confuse the issue of why the thing failed.
Re:"Experiment" (Score:4)
I'm one of the people out at I/O that was given one, but I've only taken it out of the box to look at it so far (too many sessions, not enough time).
To go along with the expensive design part. The device has a lot of mass. It was designed to sit on a table, and be interacted with locally. The top half of the Q spins (I believe as a volume control, but I have not had a chance to set it up yet) If you look at the breakdown diagrams they briefly show in the introduction video - there's also a complex set of components inside of the device. So that increases the assembly cost as well.
It's not meant to be a simple video player, nor just a slave to the TV. Hooking it up to a TV is technically optional.
I'm glad it is being produced in the US - we need more companies demanding device manufacture and assembly in the US - it will only help drive down the US assembly costs due to volume. We used to (10 years ago) do a LOT of assembly in the US for all sorts of devices, but the economic downturns drove a lot of assembly over seas (increasing some costs, decreasing others).
The only problem is... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Have to start somewhere ...
Re:The only problem is... (Score:5, Insightful)
devices are made entirely by robot. chips, transistors, etc.
but *assembly* of a phone or tablet or pc is still by hand.
so it DOES MATTER that G is making this in the US. as much as I dislike G these days, I'll give them a solid attaboy! for this one!
good job, G. unexpected but good job nonetheless.
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TFA is blocked for me at work but pretty sure it's the same one I read yesterday; they actually go into detail about the lengths Google went to to try to find all the components they needed onshore. As you suspect, it wasn't always possible, but whenever it was that's what they used.
Industry clusters are also important. (Score:5, Insightful)
"low cost Chinese labor and looser environmental regulations"
Those aren't the only factors. The fact of the matter is that pretty much everything is clustered in SE Asia nowadays, and that the labor market is a lot more dynamic. Need slightly shorter screws? Call the factory down the street, they'll start arriving within the next hour. Changed the specs for your unibody case? The factory downtown will deliver new ones the same day. Need a new assembly plant? Build it and staff it by next week. Everything is done locally, reducing ETA and shipping costs in the process. These things also count tremendously.
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All of which can be done in the US.
Do you think their aren't manufacturing hubs like the in the US?
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Do you think their aren't manufacturing hubs like the in the US?
Sure there are. But for producing consumer electronics en mass, wouldn't you agree that the action is at the other end of the Pacific?
Re:Industry clusters are also important. (Score:5, Interesting)
My father runs a small custom electronics manufacturing plant. They basically build one-off type parts for companies. For example, building a gas station chain? Need a coin-op for your car washes? Well, you only need 100 of them... it's hard to get an order like that done out of asia. So that's where his company fits in. One of their biggest problems is sourcing parts. EVERYTHING is in asia, and everything is geared to that market now. It wasn't that way 20 years ago but it certainly is now. Often it's cheaper for them to buy pre-assembled boards designed for something out and remove the components they need to put on the new product. One time they found a lamp at the home depot that had a part they needed in it, that met spec. The lamp was cheaper than ordering the part from anywhere so they bought 5 pallets of the lamp from home depot and set about tearing them down. Silly, but it got the job done.
Err Phone For You its a Mr Teller ... (Score:3)
right you can't require somebody to work 80+hour weeks to meet a deadline in the US
i have 2 words for you
Mr Teller could you get Mr Penn to explain those words??
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Yeah, really. I don't know about you guys, but I kinda like the fact that my employer can't force me to live in a fucking on-site dormitory so he can come and press me to work an additional 12 hour shift on top of my already 70 hour work week so that we can fill a rush order of another few thousand units.
It's hysterical how many people bitch and complain with a straight-face about our regulations, especially our labor regulations, knowing full fucking well that if their own employer did the same thing to t
Re:Industry clusters are also important. (Score:4, Insightful)
Or, you could proceed the Brazillian way, and toss in a 100% tax on any consumer electronics not assembled locally. (Foxconn is setting up an iPhone plant over there, so Apple can work around the tax.)
hmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
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" it's expensive as hell to make something here "
moderately more expensive, not 'expensive as hell'
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Disappointing. Done right it should cost less (Score:2, Insightful)
I keep waiting for them to replace Chinese workers with American robots. If they did that it could actually cost less. You pay less shipping. Maybe we just don't have a robot that's good enough and cheap enough; but we will. A lot of the outsourced labor is things like cleaning, assembling, etc. Come on Google. If you can program 'bots to drive cars, surely you can program them to polish screens.
No paywall links (Score:5, Insightful)
There should be a rule on Slashdot that no paywall links are allowed to be posted. How can we comment on an article that we cannot see?
Re:No paywall links (Score:5, Insightful)
There should be a rule on Slashdot that no paywall links are allowed to be posted. How can we comment on an article that we cannot see?
Copy the URL, google it, and bypass the paywall by clicking the result from there:
http://www.google.com/search?q=http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/technology/google-and-others-give-manufacturing-in-the-us-a-try.html [google.com]
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SAN JOSE, Calif. â" Etched into the base of Googleâ(TM)s new wireless home media player that was introduced on Wednesday is its most intriguing feature. On the underside of the Nexus Q is a simple inscription: âoeDesigned and Manufactured in the U.S.A.â
The Google executives and engineers who decided to build the player here are engaged in an experiment in American manufacturing. âoeWeâ(TM)ve been absent for so long, we decided, âWhy donâ(TM)t we try it and see what ha
Re:No paywall links (Score:5, Funny)
How can we comment on an article that we cannot see?
I'm tempted to mod you +1 funny for that.
Re:No paywall links (Score:5, Informative)
password: slashdotnyt
Re:No paywall links (Score:5, Funny)
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How can we comment on an article that we cannot see?
Wait a minute. You're telling me we're supposed to read the linked article?
My problem is (Score:3)
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Get a new wife.
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Get a new wife.
A far more expensive proposition
Unplug the DVD player (Score:2)
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What Country Was The Video Transcribed In? (Score:2)
Check out the gibberish closed captions [staticflickr.com] ("nexus ceo their first social streaming media player may trigger the plane home") for the How Nexus Q Works [youtube.com] video.
On-shores manufacturing must be fun (Score:2)
Feel the sand of the beach between your toes and hear the sea while manufacturing, yay!
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I don't get the Q (Score:5, Insightful)
So, this is not a Google TV device yet can connect to a TV with limited functionality. Its too expensive as a standalone network media streamer compared to other products available. I don't need a network device to power its own speakers. Compare this to a $120 Apple TV or even a $190 Boxee Box and its a very over-priced and mediocre competitor. So what is the point?
Obviously if Google is using on-shore manufacturing they are already assuming this as a niche product and don't have to worry about huge demand and high production costs.
I think Google mucked this product up as they are positioning it as an expansive hipster device in a market already saturated with better value and feature rich products. All Google should have done is create a little HDMI dongle that sits on a TV/Receiver that provides AirPlay like connectivity for Android devices which are capable of providing all the same functionality as the Q and could do so for a small fraction of the cost.
No Login Article from Business Standard (Score:3)
http://business-standard.com/india/news/made-inusa-is-back-as-google-doesretro/478854/ [business-standard.com]
Looks like Business Standard Syndicates it from NY Times
China (Score:2)
Makes sense that they pull out of China, since the government was so apathetic regarding the hacking incidents, and Google have had a lot of negative rhetoric against China. They could get a "patriotic" boost in the huge US market if they did tout it in their marketing, but maybe they think it will reflect badly on their other products. They can also more easily ensure good conditions for the workers, less pollution, etc, and use that in marketing. US is probably less than 30 % (PNOOMA) of the world market
And I will pay more, too (Score:2)
And I will pay more too, as a self conscious act of affirming the long term importance of having a profitable manufacturing base in the US.
We all buy China junk, myself included. If I could buy all Made IN America at three times the price of Slave Labor in China, would I only buy Made in America? Probably not because, like solar panels, buying ONLY Made In America is a political statement I literally can't afford to make ALL the time as of right now. But will I buy what amounts to fun cool stuff like t
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I agree with you. I might need to skip some things for a few months, but it'll be worth it.
Interesting trend? (Score:2)
I wish it would, but I don't see how this will turn into anything exciting for the economy until offshoring gets more cost prohibitive. Thanks for trying Google.
I have no idea what this thing does... (Score:3)
So I watched google's video introduction of the Q. http://youtu.be/s1Y5dDQW4TY [youtu.be]
I have absolutely no clue what this thing does or is or anything really. Except that apparently it will let people come to your house and play music from their phone. The video feels like dot com boom marketing. It's like zombo.com.
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Cause it's jobs for Americans , paid by selling goods to Americans and that America has traditionally made better products than the Chinese. .. but jobs and peopple who have money to spend on products built in America makes America grow stronger in the world arena.
Cheap is nice
Stop thinking it's nationalism and patriotism . Buy American goods to give jobs to Americans. Simple and just what America needs : jobs jobs jobs.
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Don't forget that it is also manufactured in a country that still puts a little faith in Rule of Law: the workers aren't indentured servants and exposed to thousands of toxic chemicals with no right to know or MSDS disclosures, and that there are limits of chemical releases to the environment.
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Cause it's jobs for Americans , paid by selling goods to Americans and that America has traditionally made better products than the Chinese. Cheap is nice .. but jobs and peopple who have money to spend on products built in America makes America grow stronger in the world arena.
Stop thinking it's nationalism and patriotism . Buy American goods to give jobs to Americans. Simple and just what America needs : jobs jobs jobs.
Hmmm... let's see.
Assume $100 for Made in china and $200 Made in US. Further, assume that the extra $100 is a difference that goes into the cost of labor (so an american employee will have it)... everything else stays the same (Google profit, Google corporate tax, cost of components/raw material/energy/env protection).
* Buy Made in China - "US citizens" are less $100
* Buy Made in US - US population is worse by -$200 (price) + $100 (wages)=-$100 - the same, isn't it? Except... hang on... income tax for th
Re:I don't care. . . (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Just a fad (Score:4, Insightful)
People might go along with the the "buy American" line for a while, but if they can save money by buying cheaper products with the same or more \better features they will soon turn to doing just that.
Well, that's the question, isn't it? Does an American company building the products it designs nearby have any advantages in quality control or innovation that offsets the slightly higher (China's edge here is often exaggerated) costs?
In an area where innovation is gradual and nobody has a chance of a killer technological lead, I think that cost is likely to be king. I have friends who went to work in the auto industry and were amazed to find that managers would sell their soul for a $1 saving on a $30,000 car. In areas with rapid and radical innovation, there might be an advantage. I don't think you can answer this question generically. It depends on the character of the market, industry and the company.
Apple is an interesting case. Apple didn't start by offshoring manufacturing, and even after they'd gone that route they hung on to their last domestic plant because they thought there was value to keeping designers close to the manufacturing process. And it worked. Even in the pre-Second Coming years when their product line was complicated and supply chain messy, they manufactured very high quality stuff. It'll be interesting to see what happens when that know-how fades with time. People will automatically attribute any decline in quality or innovation to Jobs' death, but if those things happen they may be the result of changes in corporate culture introduced by Jobs.
Offshoring iPods definitely was a winner because of their relatively low cost and high volume, and the need to compete against low cost alternatives. It seems to me that the same factors would apply to the Nexus Q, which is just another streaming media box. But maybe Google knows something we don't. Or maybe Google needs to gain more experience before it can rely on overseas contractors.
Bottom line on the question of on-shoring vs. off-shoring: it depends.
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Google has held themselves to the ideal very well.
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Side note, kudos to Google for taking the first step.
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You laugh that's exactly what the Italians have done. They imported labor so they could still put a "made in Italy" stamp on their stuff. So the next time you are fawning over some overpriced Italian brand, just remember that it was still made by the Chinese.
Nexus Q has optical audio output (Score:3)
It's so nice to have both, that Google decided to put a TOSLINK digital audio output on the Nexus Q alongside the HDMI. I don't know where you got the idea that it had only HDMI and no digital output.