Anonymous Attacks Israeli Websites In Response To IDF Operation In Gaza 560
An anonymous reader writes "On Thursday, Anonymous reported that it took down close to 40 Israeli government and security establishment websites, although the single website that they presented as having been attacked belonged to a security and cleaning services company. The report came after Likud MK Danny Danon announced earlier in the week that his website had been taken down by a group calling itself TeaM KuWaiT HaCkErS. Danon's website had been hosting an online petition calling for the Israeli government to cut off the supply of electricity going from Israel to Gaza. " A report at Russia Today puts the number at "hundreds" of sites, instead.
people on internet DDoS websites due to a thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Slashdot seems to love reporting this recurring story, I guess because you can write it with mad-libs...
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Slashdot seems to love reporting this recurring story, I guess because you can write it with mad-libs...
Macros.
Did anyone notice: (Score:5, Interesting)
Don't overdo associations... (Score:2)
Don't overdo associations...
For example, from a few minutes ago: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20375395 [bbc.co.uk]
"Fifty children aged four to six years old and the driver of the school bus they were on were killed when their vehicle was hit by a train in central Egypt on Saturday, officials said."
Hmmm... Who ran that train? Hmmm... Maybe an Israeli soldier or an Assad ally? Hmmmm...
No. Don't overdo associations. Shit happens in the Middle East anyhow.
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A word of advice. This is slashdot on a subject usually causing heated discussions. Use the <sarcasm> tag or risk the consequences of people who don't stop to think.
Shachar
Assad is going to attack Israel (Score:2)
just like Hussein did from Iraq in the first Gulf War
it changes the subject in people's minds: "it's not about Assad, it's about Israel"
Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel, Israel... obsession.
Am I the only person left on the planet who just doesn't care that much about Israel, for or against?
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Have you really thought that through (Score:5, Insightful)
Something to think about, since it appears you haven't: and what if an Assad attack against Israel pulls in Egypt and throws all the Palestinians into full all out war mode. Hmmmm?
All of those combined military forces would not be able to do much to Israel. Palestine has been at nearly a full state of war for years already, so it's not like they can do more than the random rockets they already fire into Israel every day. Egypt is hurting and if they put too much military into fighting Egypt they will be toast from internal riots.
Iran is the only one with much of a military force, but guess what would be a big old christmas present to Israel? A first strike from Iran to give Israel a reason to strike ANYWHERE within Iran using ANY weapon. Every nuclear plant in Iran is a smoldering pile of rubble within one hour of an attack from Iran on Israel directly.
That also is true for Egypt and Palestine too you know. If either of them declare "war" war, then Israel gets to take the gloves off instead of having to worry about faked videos of injured people in Palestine.
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You're so right, it has nothing to do with Israel's ongoing ethnic cleansing of Palestine. The people of Gaza are just a bunch of stooges who have an irrational hatred of Jews and would otherwise harbor no ill will towards Israel for blockading their territory for the last 45 years while spending 40 years of that attempting to establish Jewish-only colonies on land confiscated by the IDF, or for spending the last 60 years refusing to allow half of the population to return to their own homes inside of what
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Except that Hamas has sided with the rebels in Syria, they be closer in what passes for Islamic philosophy than Assad's eclectic mix of Alawites, Christians, Druze, etc. On the other hand, Iran, which does back Syria, also backs Hamas. Also, Hamas has been taking flack from more radical groups on the Gaza strip for not doing more to provoke Israel.
I think that latter was probably the biggest influence except for....the Muslim Brotherhood took over in Egypt. They aren't going anywhere even if the people vote
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The Egyptian Muslim Bros. would/will never lose an election, and would/will never have to blatantly and publicly deny the outcome of one. They would just (1) keep pandering to the baser instincts of the voters, just like a certain other, unnamed, political party always does, and (2) pre-rig the elections, again just like the aforementioned unnamed party. The only way they ever lose is if they commit physical suicide, like the Nazis, or political suicide, like the Communists in the USSR.
This has nothing to d
Anonymous (Score:4, Insightful)
Anonymous are a bunch of losers. They just want to revel in the limelight and taking the Palestinian side against Israel happens to be cool among leftists, anarchists, and other spoiled children with too much time and money and not enough wisdom.
The best approach to anonymous is to ignore them. If they don't get the attention they seek, they'll go back to wanking off to online porn in their moms' basements.
Re:Anonymous (Score:5, Informative)
leftists?
really? or are you in parrot-what-the-talking-head says mode?
no leftists are in favor of the combined arab aggression that wishes israel off the map (more accurately, all jews dead).
left leaning people support democracy and its core principles. the israelis are the ONLY ones in that entire region that have any similarity to our western ways of thought and our world views.
get fucking real and stop the paroting of bullshit talking points.
you may not agree with all that israel does, but you cannot seriously take the arab view that 'death to isreal' is at all a valid thing to have as a goal.
anyone who takes that point, even a little, is to be dismissed.
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Yes, really. Most leftist organizations and peace [sic] groups outside Israel are pretty much uniformly against Israel. You may be leftist and not against Israel, but that's going against the official positions of most leftist groups. Just look at the official stances of rabble.ca, cupe.ca, the "BDS" movement, etc.
And self-styled anarchists like the bozos behind AdBusters are very anti-Israel. [adbusters.org]
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Anti-capitalism/marxism _started_ as thinly veiled antisemitism. This is nothing new.
Carl Marx wrote a book 'On the Jewish Problem' that came very close to advocating genocide.
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Fuck'em let the assholes kill each other. (Score:2, Interesting)
...taking the Palestinian side against Israel happens to be cool among leftists, anarchists, and other spoiled children with too much time and money and not enough wisdom.
And taking Israel's side is a wiser choice because ....?
Isn't Israel the ones who are stealing land and building "settlements" on that land? And where there is a chance for peace, isn't it the "Settlers" who start something because they don't want to give up the land they stole? Actually, it was the IDF who steals it under the guise of "security".
See, this is the way I see it: you have two groups of people who want the same piece of land. One group did a marvelous job of playing off World powers and suck
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The Israelis were attacked in 1967. The Arabs lost. They need to get over it. They won't get all that land back. Israel will maintain better defensible borders and will not give up _any_ of Jerusalem (their capital city).
Should Germany get back the parts of Poland and France they lost in 1945? Same issue.
Re:Fuck'em let the assholes kill each other. (Score:4, Insightful)
Why not? The Mufti of Jerusalem ('Palestinian' leader) was allied with the Nazis and had plans in place to give up the middle eastern Jews for extermination.
In both cases the aggressor was forced to give up land after starting, then losing a war. It is exactly the same issue.
Re:Fuck'em let the assholes kill each other. (Score:4, Insightful)
Because Israel is a secular democracy. Despite the noise of Jewish religious extremists, their positions are not widely shared in Israel.
Because Israel's basic laws do not contain a call to genocide the way the Hamas charter [wikipedia.org] quotes religious texts calling for the killing of Jews.
Yes. The West and everyone else should let Israel defend itself without having to worry about outside interference and without anti-Israel rhetoric being spewed at the UN and elsewhere.
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I almost agree with you, but you just had to add that whole 'leftist, anarchists and other spoiled children' thing.
In one move, you took an argument that I think virtually everyone would agree with, and made yourself look like a brainless Fox News addled idiot instead.
Well done! Excellent illustration of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!
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Not because of the military actions... (Score:2, Interesting)
But when the government of Israel publicly threatened to sever all Internet and other telecommunications into and out of Gaza they crossed a line in the sand.
http://www.anonpaste.me/anonpaste2/index.php?0c3787b9e504b257#4vuPTzmEXo9+uyq78aSSgvqJgb1nV5DwOZXdau60ajQ= [anonpaste.me]
If I read the source they try to spin as this has something to do with the military actions which isn't really the case. I kinda hate this kind of pro
WTFOMG! (Score:2)
So anonymous took down a bunch of websites. Even as a nerd, I'm trying to figure out what part of this news actually matters.
Israel is pasting Palestine into a bloody smear, so anonymous takes down some of their websites. Oooooooh! I'm bet they're reeeeal scaaaaared now! Thanks to anonymous' DDOS, the war is going to stop! (Preemptive Whoosh here for those who couldn't figure out that the above was sarcasm.)
If they manage to do what they did with that law firm whose name I've already forgotten (during
It's all fun and games kiddies... (Score:2)
Until the participants begin turning up dead with small caliber gunshots to the back of the head.
Bigotry Disguised As Liberalism (Score:4, Insightful)
So, Hamas fires 200 rockets into Israel. Israel retaliates and "anonymous" cyberattcks their web sites. Yes, you are the villian if you do something about someone shooting rockets into your city.
Every time an issues likes this comes up liberals love to paint Israel as the villian, they swear they are not anti-semetic and they NEVER answer the question what they would do if someone fired rockets into their home town.
I never see American critiques turning over their land to a Native American foundation and moving to Europe. Ditto for Europeans, they have all lived on each others land ( after slaughtering for it ) for time immoralial. Lets not remind them of how Muslims are treated in their countries either.
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http://anonnews.org/press/item/1885/
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Funny)
we're waiting, but its still naptime.
as soon as he wakes up and has his milk, he'll call us back.
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Mossad will probably convince them that it's not a good idea. Mossad is known for not "playing nice" when anything or anyone actually threatens Israel.
Cheers,
Dave
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Mossad is very good at what it does. As with the current action in Gaza, the idea to be "communicated" is that, if you attempt to hurt us, we will hurt you more than you can imagine. Usually, people get the message. Those who don't usually end up dead.
Cheers,
Dave
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It's funny how your post and your sig contradict each other. /Got no stick in this fire.
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FTFY.
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't think it's falsified...I think the issue is that Anonymous is not a singular, totally cohesive group. I absolutely think there are parts of Anonymous who are that reckless that they'd poke at Israel over this. For their sake, I hope they don't accomplish much; Israel has exactly *no* sense of humor when it comes to their own national security. There comes a time when a cyber action can provoke a kinetic response, and the Israelis won't be hampered by the need for search warrants, due process, etc.
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You are clueless. Hamas is the governing party in the Gaza Strip not the West Bank. What Hamas does in the Gaza Strip has no effect on the status of Jerusalem.
And as far as UN support, it has been fairly unanimous for condemning Israel. Israel is an apartheid state with separate roads for Palestinians, forced evictions and demolitions of Palestinians houses by settlers, non-statehood for residents, restrictions on international travel, and crimes against Palestinians that aren't prosecuted (like the Price T
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I can imagine that retards just might think it's a good idea to lob a few rockets.
The thing is, the Palestinians have shit for weaponry. They know that Israel has the best of weaponry. The Palestinians can't reach, let alone hit, many of the "best" targets in Israel, but they know that Israel can reach ALL of Gaze, easily and accurately.
The Pals gained a lot of worldwide sympathy with those moronic flotillas. And, here they squander much of that sympathy by attacking Israel in some hopeless gamble.
Once a
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:4, Informative)
The Pals gained a lot of worldwide sympathy with those moronic flotillas. And, here they squander much of that sympathy by attacking Israel in some hopeless gamble.
No they don't. The entire islamic world has larger levels of anti-Semitism than Germany had in the 1930s (not that other kinds of racism are far behind), and the issue is simple : the more attention hamas captures, the more this anti-Semitism will play in politics in other muslim countries.
The more attention hamas grabs, using any and all means, including their favorite tactic of getting their neighbours' children killed, the more successful they're likely to become.
Their stated purpose is to bring back traditional islamic values, and they explicitly mention including eternal war (one translation "jihad") with, well, with everyone else. Another stated purpose of Hamas is to kill every Jew in the world.
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Another stated purpose of Hamas is to kill every Jew in the world.
and fwiw, hardcore muslims also have no tolerance for christians. both reject mohammed (piss be upon him) and therefore are subhuman.
you think that if you let the islamists get rid of all the jews, they'll stop and be happy?
I seriously hope people are not that stupid.
islam hates all that don't fully agree with them. please, world, realize this and that this IS a world-level war.
its being fought in the ME but it won't end there.
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It isn't the Muslims per say, but the extremists. Extremism of any faith, colour or dogma is the problem. I know enough Muslims around me, and none of them would ask for what is happening in the name of their religion.
One of the differences with Islamic extremists, is that they live in an area that is generally politically unstable and throwing in a country like Israel into the mix is like throwing oil onto fire. BTW the power grab by certain imams is very similar to what the priests were doing back in Euro
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I sat in a bar in Haifa, Israel, one evening. On one side of me, was a professor from Florida, who wanted to philosophize. On the other side of me, was a Mexican who grew up on the streets of Chicago, who was also in a philosophical mood.
The two talked philosophy for quite some time, each unable to understand the other. I just sat and listened, laughing at both. Oh, I'd insert a comment here and there, that I thought might be enlightening, but mostly I just listened. The two of them just didn't have an
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Israel is only defending themselves following a massive rocket bombardment.
Ok let's pretend when two sides are firing rockets at each other continuously for many years, that the much larger, richer and better armed side can be referred to as 'defending itself'.
Given that assumption, explain how air strikes and shelling are intended to resolve the situation.
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Insightful)
Nice. Now let's 'pretend' that in a given period of years, there is relative peace with no rockets fired, then one side fires indiscriminately into the other. Let's call them the aggressors. Then the non-aggressors fire superior (and better-targeted) rockets into strategic locations only. But you're right, the moral high ground rests solely with the aggressors.
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And the correct response is to fire rockets at other children.
Show me where I said that. The moral of this story is that there is no moral high ground, only a situation that must be resolved regardless of who fired the first shot.
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How do you propose it to be resolved?
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Given that assumption, explain how air strikes and shelling are intended to resolve the situation.
america and most of the west LOVES the notion of revenge or payback.
its not defense any more than attacking iraq OR afghanistan was 'defense'. the act was already done, retaliation is not 'defense'.
its a saving of face, but its not 'defense'.
but what does that matter? if you are struck, are you going full-jesus and turning the other cheek? really? even when being attacked with missles?
fuck that. attack me
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Informative)
Israel is aiming at weapon caches and missle emplacements. How is that not defense?
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Israel is aiming at weapon caches and missle emplacements. How is that not defense?
Israel's government has stated: "The goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages" [haaretz.com]
That's not defence, that's annihilation.
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1) In the Middle Ages, they had no (intermediate range) rockets. So that would fix the situation.
2) Those people live mentally in the 8th century anyway. Hard to tell the difference, I'm afraid.
I don't know anyone in Gaza that "lives mentally in the 8th century". Have you ever been?
Gaza is relatively cosmopolitan for a 3rd-world Muslim city. It's a nicer city than Jakarta, Delhi and Nairobi.
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Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Informative)
Didn't Israel assassinate Palestinian leader just before a ceasefire was about to be brokered...
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/israels-shortsighted-assassination.html?_r=0 [nytimes.com]
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:4, Informative)
You are forgetting the 7000 rockets so far this year. The Israelis got an opportunity to take this guy out and they did.
The other thing you, and many other Slashdotters, also don't understand that all the negotiations were for a 'ceasefire', not a permanent peace treaty. You see, Hamas seeks a ceasefire ('hudna' in Arabic) whenever they are weak. Islam permits such ceasefires to be made with hated enemies to build up strength until the next attack. If Hamas was in a position of strength they do not have to offer hudna to the Israelis.
If Hamas agreed to a peace treaty then Israel would grant it immediately. The thing is, Hamas do not want peace, only ceasefires to build strength. Hamas don't think permanent peace is an option, they believe they have "Allah on their side" and will eventually bring the Caliphate to the entire World (starting with Israel). Now i'm not saying this is logical, but that is how Hamas (and other violent Islamofascist theocracies) thinks.
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hudna reading:
http://www.meforum.org/1925/tactical-hudna-and-islamist-intolerance [meforum.org]
What does this mean for the present hudna, or any that is likely to follow it? The jihad is waged against the entire world, but Israel has become its focus. Since the jihad is deemed unending, and since Israel is going to stay, there will be no end to the religiously-inspired struggle. The Hamas covenant, for example, is unequivocal: "There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through jihad. Initiatives, proposals
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Great link.
As explained in that link, that is exactly why I mention the specific term 'hudna' and because of the implications that hudna has for Muslims (slightly different than their other words for ceasefire). Basically as long as Hamas uses the term hudna in its statements (and it does) you know it is not committed to peace. They are only using hudna as break between offenses to build strength, and fool Europeans/New Leftists that they have any interested other than the complete conquest of Israel (wh
Re:I think it's a falsified information. (Score:5, Insightful)
The UN will never support Israel, because all the Islamic (and often the ex-Communist) states form a voting bloc. Check out this YouTube video, it explains a lot of what goes on in the (now thoroughly corrupted) UN, and why the UN wanted to 'protect religion from criticism) recently - which meant removing Free Speech rights (to criticize the insanity of religion, especially Islam:
Understanding UN Bias Against Israel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7Mupoo1At8 [youtube.com]
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Religious nutcases [wikipedia.org], both Jewish and Christian, for different reasons. "Rebuild temple of Solomon" is on the doomsday checklists of a lot of cults.
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That's usually what happens when your government starts a war.
If a child points an unloaded gun at a cop he will be shot dead and no one should have any sympathy for him. No one should whine and make excuses for him afterwards or demonize the cop.
This would be the national version of liberal nonsense that dictates that you are not allowed to defend yourself.
Even New Zealand has shot youths; Hamas' lying (Score:4, Informative)
Wow, where do you live? In New Zealand we don't routinely arm our police, although they do carry firearms secured in the boot of their vehicles. If a youth threatens a cop with a weapon they'll be tasered if that is on hand ir shot if a taser is not available. Youths on the drug P have been carrying golf clubs smashing things up and after warnings from cops they have been shot and killed. If you live in a country even more passive than New Zealand I'd be interested to know.
However, you are missing the real point of this thread. Israel is taking great pains to avoiding killing children,. They have aborted numerous airstrikes (at the cost of hundreds of thousands of shekels) at least according to the IDF YouTube page; they also spend millions inventing the Delilah missile that is designed with an abort option to prevent civilian casualties; they have also sent out 12,000 texts and dropped leaflets to tell civilians to move away from rocket storage facilities.
Hamas, on the other hand cynically launches rockets from house yards and schools - hoping to make 'inoluntary matyrs' of the inhabitants when the Israelis try get the launchers.
So, given that Israel tries to preserve life (of both Israeli and Arab civilians) and Hamas tries to destroy it (of both Israeli and Arab civilians) it should be pretty clear to any unbiased observer who is decent and who is not. Unfortunately, many people are not unbiased and report lies as facts. eg. they slurp up all of Hamas' propaganda due to their misplace hatred of Israel. Example of Hamas lying (as it often does):
Hamas' Claims: True or False?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWSuWFbiYGM [youtube.com]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl0lMjI1d5c [youtube.com]
Hamas lies routinely, believing falsehoods are permitted by the Islamic principle of Taqiyyah ('religious dissimulation => blatant lying):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya [wikipedia.org]
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Not if they are outside Israel. And if its done by the local police, it will get no more emphasis than any other hacker takedown. So the locals don't come across looking like puppets of the Mossad.
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Are you _sure_ your computer/monitor can't be made to catch fire with software? Anything you do in sight of your webcam you would rather not have posted?
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Even inside Israel they won't go after them. Inside Israel, there's of course the problem of the people on the street who are being targetted by rockets. Shouting too hard that they deserve getting killed by those rockets, of course, is not likely to be appreciated.
Wouldn't be any different in any western country.
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Yeah. If Hamas wants to get clobbered (for world sympathy) they would be better off trying to bring in a ship load of clothing and baby formula. Israel will blow the crap out of the ship, but no bystanders in Gaza will become collateral damage,
Re:this is really sad. (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah, and I wish Israel would end its blockade, give the Palestinians a right to statehood, evacuate the settlements, and respect Palestinian borders so the Palestinians didn't have to fight for their own self-determination. While Israel continues its policies, Palestine will continue to be a shithole of poverty with people who can't legitimately complain to anyone because they don't have a state and the UN doesn't recognize them. Israel reaps what it sows.
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Won't be long until a Zionist builds a better, guided rocket, launches it from near Gaza and obliterates the dome of the rock. They are just waiting for the first large warhead rocket to fly out of Gaza (for plausible cover).
I will laugh my ass off.
Anybody got a link to the petition? Normally I don't bother.
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Moron: Obviously the story would be that an errant pali rocket hit the dome. Too bad so sad. No they will not be allowed to rebuild, at least until the conflict is finally resolved.
As to 'Islamic holy sites' it is SOP for muslims to claim all churches etc as 'Islamic holy sites' immediately after completing their military conquest. They got over spain, they will get over Jerusalem.
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Interceptors are expensive and unreliable.
Laser guided bombs at the launch sites are a much better idea.
The Israelis are doing both.
Consider an old school fight. Even if you can block every blow your opponent throws the fight is not over until you knock him on his ass. It also gives him reason to think next time.
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It's already being done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roReCA95Vl4 [youtube.com]
Not to mention, they have some awesome gun systems that will intercept targets as small as a 50 mm mortar round. I was given a link to a video of that thing in action, but I've lost it since then. It's sort of comparable to the US Navy's close in defense guns, but much more sensitive, and very very accurate.
Re:Bad juju? (Score:5, Insightful)
I will give you a few simple ways to know whether your point on view on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is incorrect:
I'll illustrate with an example:
I don't know how to solve the problem in the region, but it's a problem that was deliberately created by creating the nation of Israel smack dab in the middle of everyone that hated them and everyone that they hated.
Deliberately by whom? Also, the great opposition to the Zionist movement started a (relatively) long time after Jews started immigrating to (then) Palestine.
It's past time to do something.
Right. Because, obviously, there is a solution. You can't think of one, but there must be something that can be done that is better than what is currently being done, right? I mean, none of the leaders could think of anything, and not one "expert" on the subject offers anything that has not been tried before and failed, but drinkypoo says that something can be done, so it must be true.
It's too late to turn back the clock, which is unfortunate, because not doing it in the first place would clearly have been the best solution.
Really? My mother's mother, and her brother and sisters, that left Germany between 1930 and 1936, beg to differ.
Israel's blockade of the strip is probably illegal,
International law seems to disagree with you on that point.
and the only people who can stop them won't because they have too much to gain by maintaining the status quo. Keeping that region in a condition of endless war keeps all of those people busy.
The only people I can think of who can stop this without causing even more bloodshed are Hamas leadership (proof: The west bank's leaders decided to mind their own business, and are experiencing both more freedom and more economic prosperity, despite the fact that, unlike the Gaza strip, Israel still occupies that region). While I suspect that the motives you claim for why they do that are, more or less, correct, I somehow doubt that's who you meant.
Shachar
Re:Bad juju? - FALSE. THERE IS 100% A VILLAIN. (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm sorry. There is a very clear villain and I am not wrong. The villain is extremist religionists on ALL sides who (to paraphrase Christopher Hitchens, who made this argument far better than I ever could) poison the dialogue with their absolutist demands which they back up using the force of their chosen celestial sky wizard and his holy books.
The vast vast vast majority of people on both sides favor a two state solution. the US wants this too, as does virtually everybody else. its the obvious answer. why dosen't it happen?
because of people who think that whose first accountability is to some god, not their fellow man.
they are the villians in this drama. no ands, ifs, or buts.
Palestine doesn't want two state solution (Score:3, Insightful)
The vast vast vast majority of people on both sides favor a two state solution. the US wants this too, as does virtually everybody else. its the obvious answer. why dosen't it happen?
Where do you get the idea that Palestinians want a two state solution ? They HAVE a two state solution in Gaza, and yet they still attack. So this is clearly not what they want.
Of course, if you look at the stated aims of the Palestinian state, here on wikipedia [wikipedia.org] one of their stated aims is to kill every last Jew walking this earth. Various reasons are given, from outright conspiracy theories, to stating (with a direct and correct quote from islamic holy texts I might add) that allah not just wants every Jew
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My solution is pretty simple. Tell me how wrong it is:
Everyone in the frigging world just shuts up, sits down, and watches. Let the two antagonists go at each other. We don't supply arms, we don't supply medical supplies, we don't supply intelligence, we don't supply ANYTHING. We all just shut the fuck up, and watch.
Winner takes all. Or, the winner dictates terms to the loser, which would probably be the same thing.
Massive casualties? Sure - but the massive casualties will total less than another cent
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I'm pretty sure that the massive casualties suffered in World War II would have been less of the Nazis and Japanese had just been permitted to take over.
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The current situation is already a result of that. The Arabs refused the original two state solution and lost numerous wars. They don't really want to abide by the UN or the spoils of war. They are not willing to let the matter be settled in any way that the Jews would tolerate (Israeli state or not).
Actually, the whole area is far too important to too many religious types to be in the hands of any one "interested party".
If the Jews shouldn't control it than the Muslims shouldn't either.
No one should have t
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Funny how started with how both sides are to blame and it's complicated, but then at the end suddenly simple solution springs up - things would be better only if the villains from Hamas stopped whatever they do.
Pardon me, but if West Bank is proof anything, it's that "minding own business" will not work for Palestinians. They put down their guns and officially accepted state of Israel and what they got in return was nothing. Israel is still taking more and more Palestinian land, the Israeli settlers are doi
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(laughing at you)
oh wait, you are serious? the israelis just have to WISH for peace?
those warmongers! how dare they stand in the way of those peaceful arabs.
they should do as the arabs say and just lie down and be killed. peacefully
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so-called arab spring is bullshit.
but keep believing that they are fighting for anything close to democracy.
(hint: they want MORE islamist concepts and laws. not less. this is not any kind of 'spring'.)
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Maybe illegal - but a lot of crazy shit becomes legal in a warzone.
Odd though, that Hamas suddenly has a lot of longer-ranged missiles, after those flotillas were allowed through.
If I were an Israeli naval officer, those flotillas would have been sunk, and no survivors picked up. Israelis are pretty soft hearted sometiems, like when world opinion is against them.
I say, "Screw world opinion, we've got a war going on here!"
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> was deliberately created by creating the nation of Israel smack dab in the middle of everyone that hated them
There's really no avoiding that. If you had any clue about that you would realize it. On the other hand, this is their national homeland and they do have a history of fighting for it. They are a distinct group with their own culture and language rather than just lingering remnants of the last empire to hold the relevant real estate.
Re:Bad juju? (Score:5, Insightful)
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hatred of jews by moslems has gone back since the start of islam.
exactly what history are YOU referring to?
Re:Bad juju? (Score:5, Informative)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_antisemitism#Twentieth_century [wikipedia.org]
Just three examples which took me like 5 seconds to find:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_pogrom_of_April_1920 [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_riots [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Hebron_massacre [wikipedia.org]
So yeah. Nice try but fuck you.
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How many more centuries should Jews have been kept from their homeland?
How many more centuries will what's left of the Native Americans be kept from their homeland? How far do we turn back the clock, and why do we turn it back further in some places than we do in others? The answer is economic reality. Don't pretend any of this is about morality, because it ain't. It's about pragmatism.
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The actual list of targets was pastebinned:
http://pastebin.com/Ms4nJSZx [pastebin.com]
If it's not illegal to do so, in their native countries, some might wish to join the good guys.
Re:11 years ago (Score:4, Insightful)
I wouldn't mind joining the "good guys". Unfortunately, there aren't any "good guys" over there. The smart ones have moved on, to places such as Canada, or the United States, and have made lives for themselves. The good ones are dead. (only the good die young) All that's left on either side are the dumb evil bastards.
Re:11 years ago (Score:5, Interesting)
Yes. You've been their and spoken to people - on both sides.
You HAVE to ask yourself this: "From what source do I get my information, and how many levels of mediation are between me and the original source".
You will find that your experience and understanding are built upon layers of unproven trust.
Re:11 years ago (Score:5, Insightful)
"Yes. You've been their and spoken to people - on both sides."
Yes, I have. You are being sarcastic, of course. You assume that I've never seen any of the mid-east. You assume that I get all my information from one or another biased big-media news source. But, I HAVE been over there. Beruit City was the most exciting and/or dangerous place that I have ever seen, with multiple armies and armed groups maneuvering in the countryside, as well as in the city. I was there before the Marines arrived to safeguard the remainder of the civilians.
Don't assume anything, my friend.
Re:11 years ago (Score:5, Insightful)
"Yes. You've been their and spoken to people - on both sides."
Yes, I have. You are being sarcastic, of course. You assume that I've never seen any of the mid-east. You assume that I get all my information from one or another biased big-media news source. But, I HAVE been over there. Beruit City was the most exciting and/or dangerous place that I have ever seen, with multiple armies and armed groups maneuvering in the countryside, as well as in the city. I was there before the Marines arrived to safeguard the remainder of the civilians.
Don't assume anything, my friend.
Well I haven't been to Gaza or Israel for about 8 months, so perhaps this is out of date, however I know your original statement
Unfortunately, there aren't any "good guys" over there.
is a load of crap. There's plenty of people trying to live nice normal lives in Israel, and live in fear of Hamas rockets landing on them every day. It's a terrible situation to be in.
On the other side of the fence (literally), there's plenty of people trying to live nice normal lives in Gaza, and live in fear of Israeli warplanes bombing them. Several of them spy for Israel, that's how the IDF manage to get so many targets. If they're caught, they're killed.
Given the mismatch in the power of each side, and the quality of housing, and the fact one side is governed by a terrorist organisation, means it's a lot more dangerous to live in Gaza than live in Ashkelon.
Some people in Israel near the border are bugging out, fleeing their homes to go to the north until things quieten down again. I don't blame them. A friend in Jerusalem was worried enough when the rocket landed nearby.
They're lucky to have that option, both having the money to escape, but also the freedom to move more than 30 miles from where they're born. On the whole though, they can't think it's that bad living near Gaza as there's little stopping them moving north (or south).
People in Gaza don't have that choice. I have a magic western passport and GPO card, it enables me to pass through Erez into Israel more-or-less at will. People in the West Bank can move a little, and even go abroad, but people born in Gaza - on the whole - don't have the ability to leave. 99.999% of them are born, live, and die in an area 1/10th the size of Rhode Island, but 150% the population. They have to grow their food, power their houses, teach their kids, and bury their dead in that slab of land.
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While I can relate to the general sentiment, I do have issues with a few of the details.
They're lucky to have that option, both having the money to escape, but also the freedom to move more than 30 miles from where they're born.
By and large, the people living in those regions are among the least rich the Israeli society have. Escaping during times of war is mostly sponsored by volunteers.
Be that as it may, the Palestinian's inability to escape is offset, to some (not large) degree, by the fact that those good people are not actively targeted by the IDF. As opposed to the good people living on the east of the fence, who know that the rockets are
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If someone attacks from behind a group of civilians it is on them when the civilians get killed. Using civilians are human shields is a war crime. Killing a combatant who is using civilian human shields is NOT a war crime (even if the civilians are smegged in the attack).
If I were a pali and I saw a missile battery going up in a gradeschool playground, I'd get my kid out of the area (at the very least). They're call.
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Quoted as if that's a terribly hawkish thing to say?
http://www.mideastweb.org/hamas.htm [mideastweb.org]
^ Search that text for both "jew" and "zion" just to get you started. Here's just a random snippet -- if you think I'm quoting out of context, well... feel free to find me something better, that explains stuff like this away :/
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Actually, after that period about 2000 years ago, Israel did not exist as a state until 1948 or so, when the UN (mainly the British and the Americans) forcibly set up a new Israel because none of the major countries wanted an influx of Jewish refugees. It played into the hands of the Zionists of the time, who were keen on setting up a new religious state on their prior home ground, and gathered support from Christians all over the place who were all agog over the messianic revelations in The Bible.
To say th
Re:Anonymous should not mess with Isreal (Score:4, Interesting)
The British and the Americans did not forcibly set up a new Israel, the Israelis did that all by themselves. What really cemented their country was beating 5 Arab armies. After that, there was no stopping them. And Truman had to be dragged into supporting an Israel in the U.N. Also, Russia continued their anti-Jewish policies and many Jews left Russia for Israel. And they were well-educated Jews, that made for a much stronger Israel.
After the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem was made a Gruppen-Fuhrer in Hilter's Reich, the Arabs and Palestinians could kiss any support for their side goodbye.
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When did 'Palestine' exist as an independent state? They are Jordanians.
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So your fine with me routinely sending 30/06 rounds through your house so long as I don't hit many members of your family?
What? You'd do something about it? Hypocrite.