After 12 years of Development, E17 Is Out 259
The Enlightenment front page bears this small announcement: "E17 release HAS HAPPENED!" The release announcement is remarkably spartan — it's mostly a tribute to the dozens of contributors who have worked on the software itself and on translating it into many languages besides system-default English. On the other hand, if you've been waiting since December 2000 for E17 (also known as Enlightenment 0.17), you probably have some idea that Enlightenment is a window manager (or possibly a desktop environment: the developers try to defuse any dispute on that front, but suffice it to say that you can think of it either way), and that the coders are more interested in putting out the software that they consider sufficiently done than in incrementing release numbers. That means they've made some side trips along the way, Knuth-like, to do things like create an entire set of underlying portable libraries. The release candidate changelog of a few days ago gives an idea of the very latest changes, but this overview shows and tells what to expect in E17. If you're among those disappointed in the way some desktop environments have tended toward simplicity at the expense of flexibility, you can be sure that Enlightenment runs the other way: "We don't go quietly into the night and remove options when no one is looking. None of those new big version releases with fanfare and "Hey look! Now with half the options you used to have!". We sneak in when you least expect it and plant a whole forest of new option seeds, watching them spring to life. We nail new options to walls on a regular basis. We bake options-cakes and hand them out at parties. Options are good. Options are awesome. We have lots of them. Spend some quality time getting to know your new garden of options in E17. It may just finally give you the control you have been pining for."
Congrats (Score:2)
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This was what first brought me to "Chips & Dips".
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Ditto. Malda had all these cool little applets for E that I played around with, and then I noticed there was a link to this little forum I hadn't heard about...
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I'll use it, as soon as someone packages it.
No way can I be bothered to deal with all those source packages.
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want me to google it for you too?
Nah, just go to the homepage and click download?
I recommend CentOS rpm.
I got a better idea. don't use it. you are probably to lazy to configure it as well, and will endlessly complain while staring at a blank desktop.
god, the distros are LAZY, not him (Score:5, Interesting)
Its time like these, that hopefully will change in 2020.
These stupid ass distros who are so hard up and anal, they should be the ones who find all these cool apps and programs, and re-package it up into their REPO servers ASAP, or on the day of the release.
If conical wants an app store, PUT all the damn cool shit on it. Not old shit, new shit.
Linux needs a none-distro specific Super Store.
Click download app - dont ask for what distro I am using, figure it out lame asses. Use a app store client that runs on 5 major distros. And can install app XYZ easily, that doesnt break other apps, and that wont stop and get stupid python errors, coz again some lame ass coded his scripts with 2.6, but fails in 2.7. Fix your shit, stop breaking old shit, stop removing old apis, you want to reduce bloat? then dont package up 167 languages that take 89 megs.
Re:god, the distros are LAZY, not him (Score:5, Insightful)
consistency as a gridlock virtue (Score:2)
You should have posted this comment in response to the fellow who professes not to be an Apple fanboy, but who does like the way they have managed to make things consistent. Consistency is a gridlock virtue. Some large gorilla at the top of the food chain guesses right often enough to successfully don the "father knows best hat" while receiving adulation rather than contempt from the sharp-thinking in-crowd.
Consistency is good fo
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Spoken like a Gentoo user.
I want packages because it makes it easy to update (or remove). If I go hybrid (using packages for everything else, source for this) I am asking for a maintenance nightmare.
Re:Congrats (Score:4, Insightful)
Aye it is, but only for one set of distros. What if I can't use RPMs? Building packages is not fun, and even if I did so, I'd still have to deal with all the separate libraries etc.
Just a nightmare for someone who's not a developer. Maybe it's easy enough if you're used to it.
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*sigh*
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apt-get install alien
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Elive [elivecd.org] is Debian with Enlightnment E16 and regularly updated E17 builds. It's a live CD so you can test it out before deciding to install. If you install the leading edge Debian Wheezy, e17 is packaged too [blogspot.com].
Re:Congrats (Score:4, Informative)
http://bodhilinux.com/ [bodhilinux.com]
The lead dev is on xmas vacation at the moment, but Bodhi 2.2.0 is expected to be released before the new year, and it will come with this release. The current release has an earlier dev release, but it is still very stable and functional. I've been using it on my main system for more than a year.
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2000 E was the absolute coolest looking WM (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:2000 E was the absolute coolest looking WM (Score:4, Insightful)
Its good to see they are finally out with a new version and I hope it gains some ground but it would be hard at this point to become the #1 WM.
Well, that's one of the great things about Linux, isn't it? That it doesn't matter if it's #1 or not. It just has to exist and be sufficiently interesting. And given the very low friction involved in switching between WMs, it actually can become #1, if it's good enough, even though it doesn't have to.
I, too, can't wait to try it out.
windows has its replacement shells too (Score:2, Interesting)
There are numerous free and opensourced replacement desktop shells for windows. Some are old linux ports.
They are good, because they work and run inside the free MS HyperVisor VM. Which boots into a cmd line plain gui, but no shell. Its easy to install these new shells, to create a working desktop thats linux like, but in windows.
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/five-apps/five-replacements-for-the-windows-7-desktop/1327 [techrepublic.com]
Re:windows has its replacement shells too (Score:5, Insightful)
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A shell in Windows is not the same as a window manager in Linux. Not in any way. Replacing Windows' shell still leaves you with the exact same window management, it just changes your task bar and desktop shortcuts (and judging from the examples on there: into something far less useful). And Windowblinds isn't even a shell replacement at all!
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That's funny. Xfce does everything I can possibly imagine needing from a DE. Of course I can't in my wildest imagination see any point in eye candy. YMMV.
Out? (Score:2)
Am I the only one who interpreted "out" as meaning "abandoned" or "given up on?"
Re:Out? (Score:4, Interesting)
Am I the only one who interpreted "out" as meaning "abandoned" or "given up on?"
No. Enlightenment was a really promising window manager. I used it from the late 90's until the early 2000's. It was pretty nice even with all of the warts. They kept scrapping it and starting over so many times that I kinda gave up on it. Honestly, I thought it was dead years ago. I figured they finally officially threw in the towel.
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No. It means homosexual by confession. :-)
I gotta hand up over here... (Score:2)
What's the difference between a window manager and a desktop environment?
Or was it "desktop manager" and "window environment"?
No, seriously, I don't know the difference.
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Windows managers simply manage your windows. A desktop environment provides libraries, toolkits, services, applications, system configurations, etc. For instance GNOME and KDE are desktop environments that provide access to your hardware devices, network management, etc. Enlightenment is somewhere in-between since it offers some things like libraries to build applications with but I don't know of many native E applications out there. DE's focus on the whole user experience when using an operating system
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What's the difference between a window manager and a desktop environment?
Or was it "desktop manager" and "window environment"?
No, seriously, I don't know the difference.
For the end user, not much. Technically, the different is big, and they can be completely separated. A Window Manager will offer a set of features for, literally, manage the Windows on the screen. Even a root menu are not required. A Desktop Manager will offer an application environment and so on. I remember using X11 + Gnome + Enlightenment a few years back. Gnome was a Desktop Manager that required a Window Manager (E was one of the option).
I know I'm not doing a good job explaining this, so if someone co
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A window manager handles the position and decoration if mere windows. Some simple window managers may offer some extra functionality such as a taskbar or a settings panel.
A desktop environment contains pretty much all you need on top of Linux+X.org: a window manager, user interface APIs, a collection of programs (that go together in terms of appearance and behavior), and service daemons.
Re:I gotta hand up over here... (Score:4, Funny)
A desktop environment is just an extremely bloated window manager.
Does anyone really care any more? (Score:4, Insightful)
10 years too late, I reckon. We've all moved on from this kind of "gratuitous eye candy above all else philosophy" and it's all about consistency, usability, integration, and last but not least, features now.
Re:Does anyone really care any more? (Score:4, Informative)
It has grown way beyond "eyecandy", check it out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tILWKo1RUI [youtube.com]
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Why does the video have a repeating "ling-ling-ling" sound in it? Also all that noice + 35 minutes long.
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Why does the video have a repeating "ling-ling-ling" sound in it?
It was made by Santa.
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Yo dawg! (Score:2)
Yo dawg, I hear you like settings, so I put some settings in your settings, so you can set your settings while you set your settings.
This is a highly confusing, very inconsistent desktop environment like program. Items that deal with setting the user interface are all over the place, items that deal with power settings are all over the place, and so on. There are desk top icons/indicators for apparently random things, but for others there isn't one. I'm not comparing E17 to other Unix/Linux/Xwindows alterna
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These features are pathetic, it was available like 10 years of MacOS-X and far more consistent.
UI on Linux (regardless which interface, KDE/GNOME/whatever) is a decade behind MacOX-X and 7-8 years behind Windows 7 (Windows 8 is another case).
You can spend your development budget on UI awesomeness when you don't have to write an operating system.
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e17 has a tiling module...
I agree that the video isn't a good example of what the system is really capable of. Snow Linux, which he's using for his demo, has some eccentricities in how it works, and e17 is the red-headed step child of their builds. If you want to see what it's really capable of, then your best bet is to download a distro that shows it off (perhaps a distro that doesn't package anything other than e17 like Bodhi) and play around with it in a VM.
I've been using e17 for over a year on my main
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being 5 years before metro shit is an advantage and you know what? having a dpi/widget_size/font_size configurability makes it 50 years ahead of osx.
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Indeed, things have changed. It's all about huge interface elements that waste space, as little configurability as possible (even if it throws away features that enhance usability) and catering to the lowest common denominator (i.e. people who aren't actually using Linux.)
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Just curious, have you compared it to other desktops? In particular I would be interested in knowing how it performs compared to Xfce and Awesome.
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Sounds like you ought to be using Window Maker.
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can start any app with a single mouse click anywhere on desktop
Yeah, but how many people have a mouse with 342 buttons?
I personally just set up just about any OS like I like it. I just create directories or folders on the desktop, and have links to applications in these. Takes about 2 or 3 seconds to launch whatever I want. It takes about 20 seconds to set up a link. I personally think the GUI has done what it needed for me, in terms of launching applications, almost since it started.
Switching between
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I don't think the desktop icons are the way to go - I have none, no matter what WM or DE I'm using. The first fullscreen or big-windowed application I have running and they are useless.
But to each their own - I used to have that kind of setup - in fact dozens of icons... back on my non-trusty Win95.
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Actually, it is only *mostly* BSD licensed. Mostly. There are components that are LGPL 2.1 (or 1.2?) licensed as well, which made me go WTF.
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From TFA: "Enlightenment and its libraries are all open source (BSD 2 clause, LGPL or GPL for some executable binaries only). It is a mix because the person who founded each library chose the license, or a license is inherited from some original source." They are trying to integrate into a standard freedesktop.org environment now. I doubt you can do that without utilizing a few GPL library components.
Thank You, however ... (Score:3)
I'll stick with e16 - it does all that I need. Basically, I only use the e16 window manager, along with a GNOME desktop - kind of odd but it works. Even at that, the only features I rely on from e16 are edge-flip and "annihilate" - features that used to exist in Red Hat but were dumped long ago.
wow... (Score:2)
This ranks among many software-things that I never expected to see happen. (up there with a "new" BeOS (never happened *for real reals*))
Users don't want options (Score:4, Funny)
Users don't want options, don't these guys get it?
Yours Truly,
GNOME Development team
12 years in development? (Score:2)
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No... I suggest you try it out in a virtual machine and see for yourself. What you'll realize is that it's current, and everybody else took a decade to catch up to what Enlightenment was doing in the 90's.
17 (Score:5, Insightful)
Can anyone explain why some open source* people have a fetish for tiny version numbers? If you are going to spend ten years developing a new version, is that REALLY not worth a primary version number? What is the attraction to having versions as near to zero as possible? In a dotted-decimal notation, why do some people think only the second decimal should be incremented, and at that only once per decade, and the first decimal should remain zero forever?
The primary decimal should be zero when the project is started and should be 1 when it reaches initial functional maturity. Major versions with substantial new features warrant primary-decimal increments. Minor features warrant secondary-decimal increments. Bug fixes warrant tertiary-decimal increments. Otherwise one of the main benefits of the dotted-decimal notation is lost.
* and not other open source cf. emacs
Re:17 (Score:5, Insightful)
its a e-peen thing, the lower the version number, the less you screwed up
wrong at primary version # (Score:2)
Unless your an attention seeker and its pure marketing.... then
Then the only time to move the primary number up, is if you have intruduced enough incompatibility or broken lagacy functions, that it warrants an indicator number, to show, what works with what.
Keep calling it 1.758 (Release 2012)
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As far as I'm concerned:
minor: patches - bugfixes and security issues. No new functionality, won't break backwards compatibility
major: new features, but maintain backwards compatibility
primary: major changes, usually including structural stuff under the hood. No backwards compatibility guarantees
So yeah, I don't know why they never increment the primary (to me, at least, 0 means "beta" or below) but I'd disagree that just
multi-screen win! (Score:5, Informative)
I've been using E17 for many years, and every time I try other WM/DE's I keep going back to E17 for one simple reason. The way E17 handles multi-monitors is such a vast improvement over others I don't know why everyone doesn't do it this way. Desktops on each monitor can be independantly switched!
Seriously, I don't know how anyone gets work done with multi-monitor any other way. Being able to switch the contents of a single monitor without switching everything on the other one is just what I always expected for desktop management, and can't understand a situation where I would want to switch both monitor virtual desktops simulaneously ALL the freaking time! This is very similar to getting use to virtual desktops on linux then trying to switch back to the single-desktop of ms windows systems.
Guess that point is not as imporant to most as to me, but I can't imagine doing it any other way without a feeling of something being wrong.
Congrats E17!!
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Xmonad also has this ability by default. It's the one feature that keeps me from moving to Awesome or DWM.
Screenshot with guages (Score:2)
I have a 4.2Ghz quad core AMD cpu, 16 gigs of 2ghz ram and a pair of SSD's in raid
so do I really give a shit about a graphic tachometer telling me that a text editor will bump that needle up by a fraction of a pixel?
yea I know its just a thing, and it can be removed, but from the first screen shot, I get the impression that this software is STILL stuck in 1996, and I am 16 years old
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and you spent 0 seconds even trying e17 or reading the page about it that tells you that that needle is the cpu freq.. and if you ever had a battery or care about the whining noise of your fans... you'd care about that needle. if you dont care.. you can remove it. it solves stuff like "my machine performs badly" and have to file a bug with your distro and hope it fixes it.. when a click of a men has it doing exactly what u want. control handed to you. you want to chew through power. want it to sip? ondemand
bodhi linux (Score:2)
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E17 "previews" (betas or whatever you want to call them) have been available for years, I had it installed as a secondary desktop on both Mageia releases and on Mandriva before that ... but the official version number was 16.99. (For the record, KDE is my primary DE, but I also install Enlightenment, XFCE and fluxbox.)
No plans on building from source, I'm sure Mageia will have it up shortly.
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Bodhi's been using the nightlies from the e17 project, with a couple of patches to the code to add their options to the menu.
If you install the current version of Bodhi (2.1.0) you'll get a build from a couple of months ago. The nightlies from the current lead up to the release are in testing, and Jeff has said he's going to be getting 2.2.0 out (with this official release) before the new year. That being said, Bodhi's using a semi-rolling release, and if you install 2.1 now, and update through synaptic or
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*whup* *whup* *whup*
The black helicopters are circling this post. Hold on to your tinfoil hat!
*whup* *whup* *whup*
Does drag and drop work? Really work? (Score:2)
Can I drag a file from a lower, unfocused folder to anywhere without either raising or focusing that folder? You know, like Windows and Mac users have been able to do almost as long as those have existed?
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You've used neither and have access to neither?
Fascinating.
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If you can select something you have "focus" on the window the thing you are selecting is in by definition (thus your statement above as written makes zero sense unless you have some different definition that you have not yet outlined to us). Whether it is raised or not when it gets focus is typic
Re:anti aliasing? (Score:5, Informative)
Font settings -> Advanced -> Hinting.
There's an option for everything.
Re:anti aliasing? (Score:5, Funny)
There's an option for everything.
How do I turn on Clippy?
Re:anti aliasing? (Score:5, Funny)
Go to Settings/Advanced/Mu and switch the Polish slider from 62% down to the radio box marked 14.89%, then a checkbox marked "Microsoft Experience" will automatically appear on the left. Select it and type Ctrl-Enter.
A dialog window appears: "Are you Sure?" [OK] [Cancel]. Press OK with the mouse.
A dialog window appears: "Really?" [OK] [Cancel]. Press OK again.
A dialog window appears: "I don't think so. I can't let you do that." [OK] [Cancel]. Press Cancel.
You should now see the familiar Start button at the bottom of the page. From now on, Clippy will appear every second time you click the left mouse button. There are two cases:
If this dialog appears: "ZenClippy. It looks like the grasshopper can handle Enlightenment" [OK] [Cancel] you must press Cancel to not return to the default E17 mode.
If this dialog appears (about %50 of cases): "ZenClippy. It looks like the grasshopper can't handle Enlightenment" [OK] [Cancel], then you must press OK to not return to the default E17 mode.
To return to the default E17 mode, just type Ctrl-Alt-Del.
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Re:12 years to achieve..... (Score:4, Interesting)
Your arguments seem pretty pointless to me. I've compared Enlightenment with all the other desktop environments, and E uses less resources, while doing a prettier and faster job. Run your own tests, against the major DE's. E beats them all.
Enlightenment doesn't compare as favorably against some of the older, lighter desktops, such as XFCE. But, those older lightweight interfaces don't offer quite the "experience" that the heavyweights offer, either.
Bloated eyecandy. Confuses everyone. Phhht. Nonsense. Violates standards? I never researched that - like most users, I'm not as interested in standards, as I am interested in results. Destabilizes the working environment? Needs citations - I've witnessed nothing like that. E is as stable as anything I've used.
Which games are incompatible with E? List them please.
My ONLY complaint with E17, is that it has taken so long. I've been fooling with it for years, impatiently waiting for this release.
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Good that you tried it. I will note that people who find animations distracting can turn it off. Anything and everything is configurable. Of course, there is time involved in figuring out how to configure all that stuff. For my own personal tastes, there is a little to much eye candy enabled by default, but with a little effort I get things just the way I like them.
That said - no desktop can fit everyone's needs and preferences. Some people actually like Unity's out of the box configuration!
Re:12 years to achieve..... (Score:5, Funny)
Some people actually like Unity's out of the box configuration!
[citation needed]
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"press Super -> type -> shit -> shit happens"
There's a new meme there... ;)
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Personally I think it parses better that way. Press Super. Type. Have a Shit. Shit happens. I can't fault your logic.
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On the same note, I believe that many Unity-haters here have not either tried to actually get into it before judging it. They just robotically say that it sucks, because that's the trend. Or they test it with the attitude "remember, this is supposed to suck".
Unity isn't even that far from a standard Win7 / Mac interface, so I think a lot of the hate towards it is not warranted.
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I'm still on e16 at work with the same theme I've used since 1998 but I'll use e17 there sometime.
Re:12 years to achieve..... (Score:5, Informative)
E17 conforms well enough to the freedesktop.org standards. Even though it's not really a standards body, freedesktop.org is readily used by modern window managers, and is becoming a defacto standard. E17 does still store its config in the $HOME/.e directory though, instead of $HOME/.config/e . Can't wait until all unix utils use the .config directory, clearing out the dotfile clutter in the home dir.
Games run perfectly well under E17. I have dozens of games, bought via Humble Bundle, and every one I've tried has worked fine with E17 (barring game bugs, of course). I had a problem once, with keyboard only games not getting focus when they run fullscreen. It's working fine now.
I use E17 on my work computer. Have done so for years. Any instability in my working environment has generally come from me, not the window manager. I think it's only ever crashed once in that time, and even then, I could press F1 to recover (as instructed by the crash dialog), and the window manager restarted itself with all windows intact.
The parent post was trolling. Probably best not to feed the troll.
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on the gnu hurd kernel. but seriously duke already came back quiet a while ago.
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Obviously just waiting to see if December 21, 2012 was really the end of the world.
Sheesh! That was hours ago.
Next time they immanentise the Eschaton, try not to get too stoned, too early.
if rome wasnt built in a day (Score:2)
Then destroying the earth will take a lot longer than that.
Just sayin... destruction could be a slow long process taking decades...
On a side note, we could never predict an incoming super nova gamma ray burst, or have very little warning if someones watching Betelgeuse or something hourly!!!
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You heard it right, we're doomed because of Entro pee.
Re:ESD? (Score:4, Informative)
Nope. Hasn't needed ESD for years. It works perfectly fine with ALSA or Pulseaudio.
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"My birthday is on Dec 22nd"
So the party won't be long enough and you won't have enough time to sleep it off. Just like every year. My sympathies.
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The other thing is it's *hugely* customizable. There is no "interface" to e17, per se, but rather a set of tools and widgets that you can use to make your own interface. If you don't like the "interface" it's because you haven't built one you like. Some people do package profiles for it (there's several in Bodhi Linux, for example), but the whole point of e17 is that you can change it if you don't like it.
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If you really want you could do it on Win8 by running linux in a virtual machine and a decent MS Windows version of X (Xwin32?). Sadly you don't get to manage the local windows that way, just remote stuff, but it looks cool and has some practical uses (multiple desktops that don't cras