Handheld Black Hornet Nano Drones Issued To UK Soldiers 97
cylonlover writes "Drones have become a valuable asset for any military force in recent years for both combat and surveillance. But while scanning a warzone from miles away is great from a tactical standpoint, unmanned aircraft can be just as useful in the hands of troops on the ground. That's why British soldiers in Afghanistan have been issued several Black Hornet Nanos, a palm-sized UAV that can scout around corners and obstacles for hidden dangers. Each UAV measures just 4 x 1 inches (10 x 2.5cm) and weighs a mere 0.6 ounces (16 grams), making it easy for troops to carry along with the rest of their gear. A built-in camera transmits live video and still images to a handheld control unit at a range of up to half a mile (800 meters)."
Re:Too light? Not at all (Score:5, Informative)
Read the article: One of the main selling points of this tiny little helicopter is the fact that it is actually very stable even in high winds.
Remember that it was developed here in Norway where we have quite a bit of "inclement weather", i.e. it has to be able to handle both wind, dust and some rain.
Re. the excessive cost: This will obviously come down a lot, and even if the main article didn't say so, each kit contains multiple drones: The mil-spec controller is probably far more expensive to manufacture than each drone.
Terje
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It's tempting to think they tested it in Bergen
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Re. the excessive cost: This will obviously come down a lot, and even if the main article didn't say so, each kit contains multiple drones: The mil-spec controller is probably far more expensive to manufacture than each drone.
Terje
And, I would imagine, cheaper than repatriation and medical costs - not to mention the lost cost of training etc.
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How is it obvious the cost will come down a lot?
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You have to separate 'cost' and 'price':
The price will of course stay as high as possible (i.e. whatever the military is willing to pay), while manufacturing cost will come down now that they have made & debugged the design.
Terje
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... My Syma IR copter is impossible to fly outdoors even on days I'd consider to be relatively calm. ...
I have a similar IR toy copter, and I'm surprised you've been able to successfully fly it outdoors at all. The package of mine specifically states that it's not intended for outdoor use, and flying it indoors into a bright stream of sunlight coming through the front window of my house demonstrated very clearly why: the sunlight apparently obliterates the IR signals. My copter promptly became uncontrollable when it went into the sunbeam. As long as I kept it out of that sunbeam, all was fine.
Too light AND too expensive. (Score:2)
At least Germany military experts [google.com] doubt its efficiency in bad weather conditions (link is to a Google translated site as the original article is available in German only, sorry). I'd say their expertise weights more than the argument they're from Norway so they'll be alright.
Also, at 144k€ per unit this seems ridiculously expensive.
Re:Too light (Score:5, Informative)
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30min battery life is impressive though, compared to toy/hobby gear, where 5-8mins is about all you'll get out of something on that scale.
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The quads are defiantly easier to fly. Even with all the gyros the genius has it takes a bit of skill/practice to fly right (luckily they are so light you can cut power at pretty much any height, crash, and it'll usually come out unscathed, depending on the surface it hits). Downsides to the quads is they aren't as good in the wind, bigger, and not as efficient.
I Found a nice video of a mini cp (also from walkera, very similar to the genius) setup with a mini camera http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtL2kqQhEf [youtube.com]
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I imagine the extended battery life is one of the reasons for the standard copter design, instead of the quadcopter design. Size is almost certainly another factor; they want to minimize the space that these little drones take up in a rucksack, as much as possible.
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I'm having trouble believing the "16g" part of this story.
a) It doesn't seem possible - equivalent civilian 'copters with smaller batteries weigh 30-40g.
b) Even if it's possible, why bother? They claim it's "to make it easy for troops to carry" but an extra 30g isn't going to break anybody's back (plus the controller looks like it weighs a kilo...)
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And they are cheap... (Score:1)
At £125.000 ($200.000) each they are a steal. :-)
Re:And they are cheap... (Score:5, Insightful)
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That's not the point. The point is that my local toy store sells something very similar for £16.
Re:And they are cheap... (Score:5, Informative)
What, you mean one of the polystyrene upy-downy lefty-righty helicopters that are barely controllable indoors and where the blades fall off if you land slightly badly. I had one of those, it was a bit of a laugh but it was lacking the following features:
1) A copter which uses a secure (DDL) network, capable of transmitting over 800 meters
2) GPS navigation
3) High quality, stabilized, pan-tilt, and mechanically zoomed video
4) 30 minutes battery
5) Carbon-fiber propellers
6) Super-quiet operation
7) Waterproof
8) Hover and stare, preprogrammed search routes
9) Base Station
Mission Planning, Execution and Analyses
Display connections, Functions and System Controls
Storage of Mission Data including Video and Images
Connections to PC, Network and other Peripherals
UAVs housed inside for Protection and Support
List stolen from Phyvel Lavine's comment under TFA
Re:And they are cheap... (Score:4, Informative)
Add a cheap camera system, and you could still have hundreds of them for the price of one mil-spec system. Although the military version does look very impressive, it's probably overkill for looking around corners/over obstacles
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Difference:
This thing is aimed for certain missions. Missions like catching unaware enemy in the house by mapping their house and defenses from inside with something they are unlikely to even notice.
You noisy big toy will tell everyone with a gun that there's an attack coming. Oops. You saved a few k on costs of your recon drone and you lost a squad to alert enemy ambushing you.
But it was cheap.
That is the reason why military hardware is generally more expensive. It has extremely stringent requirements, and
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And they are willing to pay those prices. Military equipment is often just overpriced, because it can be. Go ask some folks in the Military they will tell you.
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Then I read this on the Hubsan website:
Anything for a beginner without training?
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I had one like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNqcYIHGaPM [youtube.com]
Worth the money- more stable than the earlier ones. It's not that fragile BUT it will still break if you crash it too hard. The plastic ones are lighter and may perform better than the metal ones.
What I suggest you do is get your son started on one of those cheap mini remote control _cars_ first e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOp8We420Lc [youtube.com]
Once he can master 2D, then only let him try 3D. Otherwise it'll just be frustrating for both you and h
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Just don't fly too high/fast to begin with, and start by just practicing 'tail in' hovering (keeping it facing away from you). If you start to lose control, just kill the throttle and let it drop to the ground - they're so small and light that they'll be unharmed by most falls onto carpet or grass.
As for safety, unlike larger RC helis/quads, these litt
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You can get most of that on a top-end $100 civilian model, available in most toy shops.
Add $50 for a miniature GPS receiver and a few hundred for a super high tech 30-minute battery. The rest is mostly software.
Help me out here, I'm having trouble figuring out where all the millions went.
Re:And they are cheap... (Score:5, Insightful)
Provide a link to one that's less than $1000. Otherwise you can figure out where all the millions went.
I've seen interesting civilian/toy helis: e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3WBUVYZkODI
But none have specs anything as impressive as _claimed_ in the article. It does make me wonder whether the claims are all true. If it's true it's pretty impressive tech. In fact it actually is not far from some of those Sci-Fi stuff.
I've got toy helis, and without all those specs, they are toys.
8 minute flight time
requires pilot intervention in high winds.
no GPS
adding live hi-res video = even shorter flight time.
Not water proof (my guess is the drone is waterproof or it'll be a major oops
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I was instantly suspicious as well. The item in the photo looks like a bad mockup, like that Iranian jet.
- It has one rotor, and a tail rotor. A coaxial unit would be easier to fly. Flying fixed-pitch or collective pitch model helis is hard to learn! OK, maybe it has an amazing autopilot and stability control. Or maybe operators just have to put in the time to build skill.
- The rotor disc looks pretty small, out of proportion to other models I am familiar with. Proves nothing and I am not a helicopter desig
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A fuel cell would definitely make for a quick recharge. I don't know beans about state-of-the-art fuel cell technology but I still suspect that the fuel cell itself would be too heavy for the stated specs.
However, the energy density of a typical fuel cell consumable, like methanol, IS a lot higher than a lithium battery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_methanol_fuel_cell [wikipedia.org]
Then again, this source states that the efficiency of such a fuel cell is also quite low.
So, maybe. Good idea though, I did not think of
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Please explain to me how they fitted a GPS receiver chip and antenna array in a 16 gram drone, along with a video camera, transmitter, and power source for all the above.
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The specs are so amazing I do wonder if they are true.
All that and only 16g. Not easy to even get a high quality video camera+transmitter that weighs much less than 16g.
Of course for some perspective, you can compare the specs with a dragonfly or hummingbird to see there's still much progress to be made in some areas ;)
Dragonfly
weight about 1-3grams
fully autonomous
self refuelling, self manufacturing.
maximum speed about 30+kph.
nonstop flight - more than long enough for me:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n [nationalgeographic.com]
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The difference is that one is a toy and one is far more useful in a battlefield.
Re:And they are cheap... (Score:5, Insightful)
This just in: short production runs of 160 pieces have an expensive per-piece cost.
Tooling and R&D aren't free, buddy.
--
BMO
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Weeeell... the prototypes were made during lunch breaks and partly from styrofoam coffe cups taken from the cantina in a location close to Oslo, Norway. Of course that's not what's being sold, what's being sold is a rugged and thoroughly tested ability.
If you think the production run was limited to 160 you are as we say over here "ett fjols" ;)
I'll even throw in a source in Norwegian from last May (use Google translate or some such), enable e24.no for loading the pictures/slide show:
http://e24.no/naeringsli [e24.no]
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This just in: short production runs of 160 pieces have an expensive per-piece cost.
Paying off our establishment mates aren't free, buddy.
-- BMO
Fixed!
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If only there was a civilian product they could have used as a starting point for development. Oh, wait..
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That is the gross for a ten year contract, with support and repairs.
Only $251,600 each... (Score:2)
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Re:Cool (Score:5, Informative)
First of all, its 125000 GBP, not USD, second, that's the cost for 10 years of maintenance.
Meaning, that for 10 years, they'll repair and replace those drones, which will undoubtedly get damaged pretty frequently in a combat situation.
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So how does she shit?
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Before the aspbergers show up with their negativity...
Congratulations, you just proved that you have ass burgers. No one else would so willfully shit both on people with mental illness and on people who disagree with their view that new ways to make sure that our guys can kill as many of their guys as possible are bad things.
Re:Cool chuckle zinger beans, drinkypoo (Score:3, Funny)
Well spoken and good call! You've nailed it.
'Those with Asperger' is just one of the emerging epithets used in discussion forums as chuckle zingers. The object of the game is to be the first in your group to come up with a zinger that is worded such that the author is winking and laughing with some (presumed, unseen) audience of like minded individuals.
It is a social gambit to build such a clique. Some readers are surprised by the novelty and cleverness of the remark -- and there is an inherent vulnerabil
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Drone strike (Score:2)
Drone strike.....
"Ow!"
Cheap Anti-drone system against this one.... (Score:2)
A can of wasp and hornet spray, and a fly swatter, and you're good to go!
Or go high-tech, and get the laser anti-flying insect defense system that was an article here [ohgizmo.com] some years back. It shouldn't be too difficult to boost the laser output power.
Price (Score:2)
Yeah, they cost 200k for the first few. But that is to cover development. The actual price of these things should fall dramatically over the next year or so as they get rolled out. If this is the same tiny drone I've seen pictures of in the news lately, they look like something you'd find being flown around the mall by some guy selling them at a kiosk, albeit with quite a bit more technology in the camera and remote control.
Re:Price (Score:4, Informative)
The actual price of these things should fall dramatically over the next year or so as they get rolled out.
You don't know much about military contracting, do you?
Nano? (Score:2)
Those are some very small palms.
Can they be operated with one hand? (Score:5, Insightful)
One thing is for certain, soldiers will have plans formed in much less than the first hour after the drones are issued to them..."We need drone style, real-time visual recon of the nearest women's shower. ASAP!"
Troops will be troops, it has been so for thousands of years: Live to get laid, have the next drink, and collecting some coin.
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+1 insightful.
These toys will be worn out/broken long before they ever reach the battlefield.
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The Chieftain tank has, as probably most other tanks do, sophisticated stabilising system so that the gun stays dead level while the tank hull bucks across the countryside. They found out that the servo systems which do this were wearing out much sooner than inspected. Inquiries found that the gunner was turning the system on all the time so that it stopped spilling his tea, which he put on top of the gun breech. They solved the problem by putting a domed cover on the breech.
Prototype Quadrotor with Machine Gun (Score:1)
How about one of these [youtube.com]?
Is this only army? (Score:2)
If the UK government is going to bulk buy for a better cost then there are probably other parts under the government umbrella that are going to get some. Like M16. Like the police. Could be useful to buzz in for some pictures of faces in a crowd.
Step Two (Score:4, Interesting)
Other uses of drones (Score:1)
How much C4 do you need one of these things to carry before it becomes a nice way to take out the target after it finds one?
A drone can carry small amounts of chemical or biological warfare agents. Sometimes a small amount is all it takes.
A drone can also light up a specific target using an IR laser. The real damage will be done by a guided missile.
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Naw - step two is making the tracking bullet from Tom Selleck's classic 1984 movie: Runaway [imdb.com].
Image [blogcdn.com]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heMboVN12r0 [youtube.com]
Step three will be the spiders!
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Manhack (Score:1)
The concept of portable drones a soldier can deploy in the field reminds me a bit of manhacks (those spinny-blade enemies in Half-Life 2).
Not that anyone remembers such an old game like Half-Life 2. Heck I think even Valve's forgotten about the series... /cry
Colors? (Score:2)
Black Hornet is White (Score:2)
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What about the receiver/display? (Score:2)
Sure, the UAV "drone" only weighs 16 grams, but what about the weight of:
a) The protective box that carries it
b) The recharging/refueling mechanisim
c) The receiver
d) The display
What does it weigh in hand grenades? Ammo clips? etc.
Re:What about the receiver/display? (Score:4, Funny)
What does it weigh in hand grenades?
And just like that, I have a new favorite system of measurement.
A starting point of a long journey (Score:2)
Nothing even remotely similar exists on the ground; - roll, pitch, yaw. Watching fuel constantly (it is never a flight, in the sense of a free flight, it is always a jump which is to be thought over and planned). Let alone wind, rain, wires, trees, birds, etc.
It will take years to get comfortable with this technology. The brain, the whole nervous system must adj
Now all we need ... (Score:2)
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The afghans would deploy their ID-3 Hoihoi san or RRX-7.8 Combato san. [wikipedia.org] That if they survive the culture shock at Akihabara.