CNN Replicates John Broder's Drive In the Tesla Model S 525
karlnyberg writes "Adding a third voice to the conflict between Tesla's Elon Musk and New York Times Reporter John Broder, CNN/Money's Peter Valdes-Dapena drove from DC to Boston (primarily to test the SuperCharger network). As he says in the article: In the end, I made it — and it wasn't that hard. ... As for the Supercharger network? Turns out that works, too.' He expands on this a bit: 'Looking back on the trip, it would be even easier if Tesla would install one of their fast-charging Superchargers along the New Jersey Turnpike. (These charging stations can fill up a nearly dead battery in Tesla's longest-range cars in about an hour, which is enough time to stop for a meal.) Tesla's working on that, spokeswoman Shanna Hendricks said. But the first priority was to install enough to make this trip, even if you had to take it easy most of the way. But I didn't have to take it that easy, which is good because the Model S provides a pretty amazing mix of smooth and silent performance along with brain-squishing acceleration. So even if you're not driving from Washington to Boston, it's an impressive car, all on its own.'"
Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
Just another journo that you can safely not read. I think Broder was caught in a near-total lie.
270 mile range seems good (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:For the life of me (Score:5, Insightful)
a) People also read about Ferraris, even though they'll never own one.
b) This sort of tech is what most people will be driving a few years from now.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
At what point do facts somehow become less convincing than John Broder's fabrication? Facts should be cut and dry, end of the day. If John is on one "side" and Musk is somehow on another, then you are simply misrepresenting "sides" to the story that don't exist. The opposite of facts is not another side to a story, it's called bullshit, and appropriately so. NYT doesn't get an all clear to do that any more than Faux news.
Good thing we have penny arcade to sum up Broder:
http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/i-5xVV2tB/0/950x10000/i-5xVV2tB-950x10000.jpg [penny-arcade.com]
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
That's a fallacy [wikipedia.org]. It's entirely possible that Broder or Musk are entirely full of shit.
Re:How do we generate the power? (Score:5, Insightful)
Its been previously stated that powering the Tesla S to max range is equivalent to burning 3 gallons of gas.
Compared to the usual 10-12 gallon gas tank of a car, that's pretty much a win no matter how you get the electricity (as long its not frm baby farts; while smelly, they arent very large or practical for a pwoerplant)
Re:270 mile range seems good (Score:5, Insightful)
Yep, and if you can charge it at home then you actually eliminate all those trips to the gas station. How would anybody not want that?
If roadside cafes and/or mall parking lots with chargers become common, the only remaining problem would be the price. We all know what happens to the price of high-tech stuff...
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Re:270 mile range seems good (Score:4, Insightful)
I drive an average of 200 miles a week including commuting, errands, visiting family, etc. Every other month, I go to visit my parents about 150 miles away and do some light driving while I'm there. I might make a trip greater than 250 miles in a single stretch perhaps once every other year and in most cases, won't even cover that in a week. It sounds like a good fit for me - especially in a two-car home so if we need to go somewhere without charging stations, we can just take the other car.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:4, Insightful)
If journalism is now just "a form of entertainment" then as a democracy where people are trying to make decent decisions about their government and what corporations they interact with we're in DEEP SHIT.
I doubt that Ed Murrow saw journalism as a form of entertainment.
Re:How do we generate the power? (Score:5, Insightful)
A gasoline-burning car is probably less polluting than a coal-burning electrical plant.
There are huge advantages in economies of scale when centralizing pollution controls. For example each gasoline powered currently car has to carry around a certain mass of equipment in order to comply with current pollution standards. Removing that mass from a moving vehicle and putting it in a fixed location gives you an instant efficiency gain as you no longer have to waste energy carting it around with you.
In addition, centralizing the power distribution of cars to current power stations allows you to flip over to a different primary source sometime in the future, without upsetting the consumption side. So while it may use fossil fuels now, that doesn't mean it still has to 10 years down the track. Think of it as refactoring the hardware to aid in future system changes.
Re:270 mile range seems good (Score:5, Insightful)
If it takes an hour to fully charge I could see roadside cafes, movie theatres, etc. lining up to get them. (Not meant to be cynical: if you have people who need an hour to kill and a business that lets them kill that hour they really need to get together. It'd be quite a cultural change to routinely stop in for lunch at a particular place because you can charge you car there, of course.)
Re:How do we generate the power? (Score:5, Insightful)
But overall I am sure an electric car charged by a well tuned power plant will be more efficient than a gasoline car.
You forgot another key thing -- when you take your foot off the gas in a gasoline car, it doesn't start magically creating new fuel and putting it back in your tank the way an EV does.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
A "he-said-she-said pissing contest"? If he hadn't fought back, it would now be common understanding that the Tesla was a piece of shit that died on a NYT reporter. It's STILL common understanding that somehow a Tesla failed on Top Gear. Perception is absolutely reality. He had to hit back brutally and immediately, or Tesla would have been Apteraed.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:For the life of me (Score:5, Insightful)
I just think this Tesla company is getting all a lot of hype for a car that the overwhelming majority of people won't be able to afford.
Most of the equipment you take for granted in your car (air conditioning, airbags, ABS, traction control, etc.) started life in cars the overwhelming majority of people couldn't afford.
Now a lot of it is mandatory even in cheap cars.
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Re:Problem with egos really (Score:2, Insightful)
Hi John, didn't know you had a /. account
Re:For the life of me (Score:5, Insightful)
And frankly, at least for me, there's an element of rooting for the underdog here. Tesla is doing what the big dogs said couldn't be done, and shouldn't be done, and they're doing it way better than what the big guys are doing. I haven't crunched any numbers, but I'll bet Tesla have accomplished way more (in terms of advancing the technology) with their time and $$ investments in the roadster and sedan than say GM has with the volt or Nissan with the leaf, despite those mega-corps having much more experience building cars.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
Neither will any gas powered sports car.
Biggest difference was charging, not temperature. (Score:4, Insightful)
Some have commented on the temperature difference or the fact that Broder did an overnight, stop with the car unplugged.
But the real difference is that Broder who was ostensibly testing the supercharging network, short charged it the Milford Supercharger.
The CNN folks fully charged theirs.
Broder has given multiple questionable excuses for that short charge, so it is looking more and more like it was setting the Tesla up for failure to drama up his story.
The NYT is the new Onion? (Score:5, Insightful)
You do realize that BBC won the court case because it argued that "top gear reviews are not actual reviews but scripted comedy skits" successfully?
The New York Times is not generally considered a "comedy" publication, grouped into the same category as The Onion.
Though I guess that could change.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
It was colder on Broder's trip. The lowest being -1. The batteries are certified for -10. Meaning, down to -10, there will not be a significant difference. Broder was also told to plug the vehicle in at night during extremely cold weather which allows the battery packs to be heated. This in turn would have also provided additional charge. Broder elected not to. That's four charging opportunities he purposely avoided. Additionally, if you look at the data, you can see where Broder claims he was on cruise control at a slower speed yet the data clearly shows him constantly accelerating and decelerating at a much higher average speed, whereby at time's he hitting about 60% faster than he actually claims. In case its not clear, if you want to destroy fuel economy, constantly accelerate and decelerate.
Basically if one had an objective to sabotage a product and then write about the failure specifically created by sabotage, you would do exactly as Broder did.
I fully expect Broder is receiving big oil payola.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually Broder's problem was that he embarked on a 61 mile leg, with the computer showing a range of only 32 miles. This definitively proves that he had the intention to "fail" the Model S. It doesn't matter if it was the president telling me to set off, I would not drive a car 61 miles with the range indicator saying 32 miles unless I wanted a ride on a tow truck.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
John Broder would have still had a great article if he just plainly said what he did to kill the battery. I think it is totally within the bounds of a "test drive" to punish the vehicle's limits. Especially, the range since that is the biggest talking point with the electric car technology and the Tesla Supercharger network.
I would have driven like a road-racer on every leg. Carry my AAA card for free towing and make sure I understood how to ready the car for towing. Driving around a parking lot is so boring. A better story is how Bandit escaped Smokey in an Tesla S. Hid on a side road and waited for the Snowman to tow him back to the Supercharger station.
Providing all of the facts about the trip and how well or poorly it held up to Telsa's claims.
I hope journalists learn something, but I'm not holding my breath.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say that .6 miles is quite a bit, in a parking lot. Try it yourself. Go to your local mall, and drive around among the parked cars and pedestrians. .6 mile can be more nerve wracking than 600 highway miles.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with Broder's article, if what Musk says is correct, is that he intentionally behaved like a loon while charging it. He charged it up to a 32-mile range when he knew he had to go 61 miles. Who on earth would do something like that? There's punishing the vehicle, and then there's trying to sabotage the vehicle's chances.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:4, Insightful)
In general, the first thing that happens is that the ramp splits to separate traffic between parking trucks, parking cars, and gas station traffic. Does these signs say where the charging station is? Is it a sign that you will miss if you glance in your rearview mirror to see if there is an 18-wheeler coming zooming up behind you as you pause to look at signs?
How can you be sure Broder is lying if you haven't been there in the dark yourself? There is no GPS recorder data and there is no camera footage.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
I fully expect Broder is receiving big oil payola.
Kinda like that guy on Fox who talked about how sunny Germany is compared to the US and how that's why solar power makes sense for them...
These are just big lies. I shudder to think of all the little lies we don't catch... the subtle manipulation of the populace by corrupt and powerful interests.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:5, Insightful)
The battery READS differently when cold. But as it gets used, it returns to operating temperature (just like an internal combustion engine) and that charge - magically! (not really) - returns.
That's what Tesla staff supposedly told Broder was going to happen when he set of, and yet this thread and every other thread are full of people blaming Broder for setting off when he "knew" - based on the range reported by the car - that he could never possibly have made it and arguing that the only reason for him to do so was because he wanted to run out of power. Oddly enough no-one's accused them of spreading FUD or modded them down to -1, Troll...
It's almost like Slashdotters is trying to rationalize this any way they can, regardless of whether the arguments are even vaguely logically consistent.
Re:Problem with egos really (Score:4, Insightful)
I don't know when the various laws took effect, but I know it's "broken" for cars at least since 1998 (first car I had cause to check the calibration and learned about all this) to be accurate with wheels and tires within OEM specs. It's a big deal in many places (Europe is where I'm the most familiar since I have a penchant for German cars apparently...) as the car MFG can face some pretty serious fines and penalties should it be found that one of their cars underreports the speed. Because of this they add the 5-10% buffer so that almost no matter what you do (e.g. short of 35" mud tires on a Smart) with a wheel/tire combination it won't underreport.