Why Your New Car's Technology Is Four Years Old 455
Lucas123 writes "While you can buy a 1TB hard drive for your computer for less than $100, Ford today offers 10GB. Don't expect much more anytime soon. Apart from the obvious — a car's development process can be four years long — the automotive industry also tends to be behind the tech curve because of a lack of equipment standardization. And, while it's possible for the industry to build modular infotainment systems that could be upgraded over the life of the car, there are no plans to do so. Instead, car companies intend to offer software upgradable vehicles through 4G connectivity and data storage and entertainment streaming through the cloud, which means they have to worry less about onboard hardware reliability and standardization."
Not to mention... (Score:5, Insightful)
They'd probably rather sell you a new car with fancy new technology than let you upgrade your existing technology.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Insightful)
hey it's not all bad. the security exploits come free of charge! You also have no guarantee they'll be patched, ever! enjoy!
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Exactly, all that proprietary software will come at a price when you buy one of those Cars used and filled with exploits and the like. Not just Cars, but TVs, Blu-Ray etc. The future is very hackable and costs a lot of money knowing you're basically forced to buy everything brand new or live with exploits.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
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And this is different than say cell phone providers or cell phone software vendors? Google, RIM and MS would rather you buy a new device with the latest software than have to support some older version of the software I am sure.
Last I checked the vast majority of phones don't have their prices measured in the thousands of dollars for used models and in the tens of thousands for new models even without a contract subsidy.
I dislike the phone lock-in model as much as most people, but we are talking a slightly different scale here. Hell, most of these integrated head units alone cost more than vast majority of unsubsidized phones.
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And this is different than say cell phone providers or cell phone software vendors? Google, RIM and MS would rather you buy a new device with the latest software than have to support some older version of the software I am sure.
Last I checked the vast majority of phones don't have their prices measured in the thousands of dollars for used models and in the tens of thousands for new models even without a contract subsidy.
I dislike the phone lock-in model as much as most people, but we are talking a slightly different scale here. Hell, most of these integrated head units alone cost more than vast majority of unsubsidized phones.
Case in point, Audi's MMI is over 3K to upgrade from an already fancy screen to manage car and entertainment.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Insightful)
Case in point, Audi's MMI is over 3K to upgrade from an already fancy screen to manage car and entertainment.
Indeed, but if you want a real shock go look at what it will cost to replace it if you have to do so out of pocket. And since the systems are so integrated anymore you are almost forced to do so as you've lost a lot more than just your radio/maps (and if they pass the laws that they are talking about to require reverse sensors then you'll have to by law or fail your inspections (in states that have them) since it would then be "safety" equipment).
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Insightful)
No, it is improper planning in the design phase of the car. If Engineers were required to have upgradable components and build a design around modular secondary systems, they could solve these problems quickly. However, modular designs using industry standards is an anathema to dealerships who want and need proprietary components that only they can fix, and charge $150 hour for, while paying their workers $20/hr.
Tesla is right, why do we need expensive dealerships to sell cars? Why do we even allow protectionist laws on the books? I'm sure they had a great reason to require dealerships 80 years ago. All laws need sunset clauses. And new laws should require compelling evidence that the laws are doing what their purposes were.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Insightful)
Sell us a new car rather than a 64GB card to allow for more storage? I'm shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
With so many cars being leased, then returned in two or three years, most people wouldn't bother replacing or upgrading anything in the car. How they can't develop a car with "hooks" for a new (eg, less than 6 months old) piece of technology is beyond me. These are top shelf engineers and I bet they could work wonders without the corporate red tape.
TFA mentions at least one challenge. Kit in automobiles have to be built for extreme conditions (temperature range, vibrations, chemicals, dust, etc). I can see consumers grabbing a cheap pc-grade harddrive and putting it into the vehicle then complaining when it gets fried. The car manufacturer would probably be blamed, much as Microsoft gets blamed anytime a program crashes on Windows.
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Nonsense. Sounds like a standard laptop.
You just sound like you are trying to justify an absurd markup and a development process mired in more red tape then they have to deal with even at NASA.
The car PC concept is very old news already.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Insightful)
Laptops are not left out in the cold to experience -20 temperatures for weeks at a time.
Laptops are not left out in the sun to experience 130 temperatures for weeks at a time.
Laptops don't experience the degree of shaking a car component does.
Laptops don't have a 6-10 year life expectancy.
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Yes they are. The local warehouses are unheated and they stack laptops in them all winter, for weeks at a time.
Yes they are - the four laptops baking in my car right now have been there for a month now. I fully expect them to work when I eventually pull them out - I know people who use generic, non-hardened laptops year-round in comp
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Insightful)
That isn't the worst thing It is using the laptop starting from that cold that matters. Though frankly even exposing the laptop to those changes is very bad.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Informative)
Re: Not to mention... (Score:3)
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Informative)
I don't think there are any fundamental laws of physics that follow your claim here. Please don't go around making up imaginary laws of physics based on bad models. Of course, it may all depend on what you mean by increasing vibration. As you say, it could increase amplitude, but it could also increase the duration of the vibration. There's also no reason to think a particular, although unusual arrangement could increase the frequency as well. In fact, the right mechanical arrangement could increase amplitude, duration and frequency. Your concern about where the energy comes from is a little silly. There's plenty of energy to be exploited from the motion of the car as it is jostled around. Just look at those watches that wind themselves. While the swing arm may not be a custom designed device, the existence of such devices shows that such a thing is not absolutely impossible.
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Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Informative)
You must have only become familiar with cars after they got rid of non-integrated replaceable in-dash radios.
Pure, unadulterated horseshit. There have been companies manufacturing aftermarket electronic components suited for automotive and marine use (and ones that typically exceed car manufacturers' gear) for decades.
I didn't bitch to Ford when (after 4 years in a lowered isuzu pup sitting on its bump-stops) my cd changer began skipping constantly. I understood that Pioneer did the best they could and Isuzu had nothing to do with me valuing ride height over suspension performance.
I'd love a return to DIN-sized dash openings (or even standard GM and Chrysler sized ones...anything that makes replacability an option).
Ahh, the good old days of IASCA and USAC competitions...
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Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is that most MFGs are moving to systems where there is no traditional headunit to replace. Go look at the Volvos that seem to have started the trend that others are following. There is no custom kit because there is nothing to actually replace. Even for the cars that still have identifiable and removable headunits, other car functions are so integrated that you either can't replace it at all or you drop a lot of functionality in the process (go look at any hybrid for extreme examples). In my latest car (in which I despise the interface and functionality of the headunit) I would lose my park assist function (not a bad thing in my opinion), my trip meters (really important), fuel economy information (it lies, but since I know by how much it's still valuable), key based preferences (e.g. seat memory, etc..), steering wheel controls, and a 1/4 of my dash would go dark (which also means I'd drop a whole other list of functions). Sadly this is the path the MFGs are taking and it's going to continue to get worse.
So instead the aftermarket market is moving towards tapping into the outputs to clean up the signal and route it off to better amplifiers and (where possible) tap into the inputs (usually bypassing the headunit altogether) to add additional functionality (HD radio, iPod, BT, etc..). Unfortunately those aren't really integrated (from the control aspect) so aren't appealing to those that want it all in one place.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Interesting)
Everything is becoming integrated... no modularity.
My Fiat 500 has a problem with the clock... it runs slow (a few minutes a month). This is a known problem and they are going to fix it.
However, in order to fix the clock, they have to replace the entire dashboard electronic unit (speedo, tach, all the computers, etc.). The real problem is the odometer. The dash unit has the odometer so they are replacing the odometer with one that has the same number of miles as the old odometer so it has to be specially ordered and programmed and then it has to be replaced at the exact right time.
Major hassle and expense for a lousy clock timer unit... they really shot themselves in the foot on this one.
Re: Not to mention... (Score:3)
No, you can replace them. The S40 (or is it the 60 I forget) not really because of the gap behind the display but there's still a double din sized unit in the dash.
And as for the integration, pac, scosche , idatalink and others make integration kits that allow you to install a new radio while retaining the factory functionality. This even applies to fiber optic systems like in the Mercedes and BMW.
I've dealt with this stuff for over 13 years now professionally (although I have to admit I do like doing rem
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Control AC, including "remote start" feature that doesn't suck.
2) Get information about fuel economy, battery charge, temperature, heading, GPS coordinates.
3) Use my own hacked voice recognition system though bluetooth.
4) Send directions to the in-dash navigation system.
5) Use the forward collision alert sensor for crude (but useful) adaptive cruise control.
All of that simply by spying on GMLAN CAN bus and a bit of RE. Some parts can't be replaced easily - for example, rear parking assist camera is completely analog and wired directly to the video processor. But most of the car's computer functionality can be pretty easily replicated by a third-party.
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Yes playing with CAN is a fun thing and gives you all kinds of access, but what you can do for rolling your own system is drastically different than what is worthwhile for someone like Alpine to do. Yes they have the experience to build a unit that could emulate all those functions, but they can't focus on just one car and expect to make money. Instead they would have to build a HU that supports the Volt, Leaf, Prius, Tesla, etc.. and each has very different methods of communicating very similar information
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Informative)
"Kit in automobiles have to be built for extreme conditions "
Nice theory, in reality that does not happen. most of the electronics in your car is standard old consumer grade crap. GM is king of this. in 2001-2005 the BCM (Body Control Module) computer would wig out on most of their cars... problem was the capacitors would die because the modules were built in china with low grade caps that spewed their guts on their own after 2-3 years. I have seen the inside of the ECM, the engine computer, on most cars and there is nothing that is "extreme condition" about them.
Your car is built as cheaply as possible to maximize profits, dont ever forget that.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Insightful)
Hyperbole. The engine management and other systems vital to operation of the car have to meet such specifications, but infotainment systems can be mounted in the passenger compartment side of the firewall and so don't need to withstand such environmental conditions.
Take a consumer hard drive, put it in a deep freeze and let it chill to -20C. Now take it out and plug it in your PC.
Is it gonna work? No? Well I guess the same hard drive won't work in a car that's been parked overnight in the winter.
And that's just the first test your hardware has to pass before it can be installed in a car. Next up, vibration testing...
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes.
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Until condensation kicks in, sure. You know, that stuff that builds up all over your windshield when your windows are fogging up? Now imagine that inside your hard drive. Good for it, Im sure.
it doesn't exactly work it's way inside the hd like that though.. I walked all winter to work(15 mins or so, sometimes took longer routes) with laptop in backpack. both the regular hd and the ssd work just fine still. seriously, nobody in Finland considers this as something strange. OF COURSE It's gonna work, if it would break from that people would buy something else or commuting would be nigh impossible. even the screen is just gonna pop right up and work. this is not some 1980's hd technology we have whe
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And the hundreds of thousands of Chrysler MyGig systems with ordinary 2.5" laptop hard disks contained within are failing in massive quantities, right? Or any number of other manufacturers offering hard disk based storage in their entertainment system. Or the thousands of custom-built in car PCs rigged up by enthusiasts, until recently often equipped with full desktop disks for capacity reasons.
FYI, the "freezer trick" is a common way to coax some last remaining life out of a hard drive that won't spin up
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You haven't gotten the memo that the functions you all bundle together run on their own, individually hardened (or not!) CPUs, in their own dedicated assemblies. You don't want the SRS or ABS/traction modules sharing the guts with anything else. They have their own ride-through power, suitably sized, and don't have any unnecessary busses on the processor chip.
Re:Not to mention... (Score:4, Informative)
there are no hard drives in cars.
Yes there is. Plenty of OEMs built hard drive based navigation systems into their cars over the years.
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Take a consumer SSD and put it in a deep freeze to -50C look it still works!
See what the data retention is like after it's been parked for a few years in Arizona.
$EMPLOYER builds chips for the auto trade (and not just under the hood.) As a matter of fact, I design chips for the auto trade. And they are serious as death about data retention across temperature and have the hard data to show why. Those HDR (high data retention) chips cost more, and if there's one thing I've learned in almost 40 years of making semiconductors for the auto industry, they never spend a penny more than
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It still can be extreme conditions, based on where you leave the car parked. You're expecting a cheap high capacity big-box-store-grade hard drive to operate correctly after being: Parked in the sun all afternoon in Arizona: that's probably +140F. Or parked overnight in an Alaska winter: that's probably -40F. Or parked for years on the Gulf Coast at near 100% humidity. Then you expect it to keep operating while the car's heating and A/C rapidly change those conditions.
That's a tall order. These drives alrea
Re:Not to mention... (Score:5, Informative)
I know my story is anecdotal, but I've had my car 3-5 times as long as most people keep theirs and I just haven't seen the hard drive failures you are talking about. To be fair, the empeg guys did a lot of smart things when they built it, such as using caching to memory heavily. This way that the drives could be spun down when not in use. The drives auto-parked when not active, etc.
And remember, we're talking about laptop drives. They're slow on purpose. 5400 rpm drives are preferable in a situation like this. We're not talking about 15k server class multi-TB storage units.
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How much did that Empeg cost?
Prices started at $1,100 US for the 4GB version and went all the way up to a $2,400 28GB
That seems a lot for most cars. Many would say 10% of a car's value for an MP3 player is a bit much.
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Soooooo, you're looking for an iPad and about $50 of accessories to patch it into your car? You could wander down to a big box store and get yourself outfitted today for less than the cost of a typical OEM car stereo.
Reliability needs (Score:5, Interesting)
Or, it could be that older technology is more reliable, and that's needed for the service of the vehicle. Much like how SCSI drives have never been up to the same spec for capacity as their IDE counterparts because SCSI was using tried & true technology to maintain reliability. Imagine having a rash of failed 1TB HDs in vehicle infotainment systems. Backlash galore.
Flash will fill the gap eventually, if not already happening.
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A lot of companies used a small HD inside to store system info and nav data (even in the after market units) and used the data from the DVD to update the firmware and maps on the hard drive.
Of course there were also those that ran off of the DVD and RAM memory (one such unit is my way old by this point Pioneer AVIC-N3 that's still chugging away). Others like some of the Eclipse and higher end Pioneer units back in the mid 2000's stored the info on a hard drive for faster access and no need to mess with dis
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What makes you think older tech is more reliable?
Re:Reliability needs (Score:4, Interesting)
It is a common misconception from Techy Guys. They look at old technology with the blinding light of nostalgia. Often confusing equipment they bought 20 years ago that cost thousands of dollars and comparing them against their modern counterpart that cost a few hundred bucks.
Re:Reliability needs (Score:5, Insightful)
Often confusing equipment they bought 20 years ago that cost thousands of dollars and comparing them against their modern counterpart that cost a few hundred bucks.
Interesting, I always assumed that it had an element of confirmation bias to it. "I have a hard disk from 20 years ago that still works" gets conflated with "hard disks from 20 years ago last 20 years", as they ignore all the disks that had failed.
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Most of them still failed. They were just easier to fix. I remember having to debug a circuit board then jumping a bad connection and a putting in a new resister to get it back to specification for it to work. Stuff failed all the time. But because it was simple enough and large enough we could fix it ourselves. However stuff is much harder to fix, however they tend to run that much better and the cost of replacement is cheaper over the long run then the old stuff.
Re:Reliability needs (Score:5, Insightful)
There has been enough time for it to have a known reliability - time enough to measure it.
It may well be that new tech is more reliable - but there hasn't been time to measure that. By the time there is, today's new tech will be tomorrow's old tech.
Accelerated life testing is all well and good, but sometimes there are new mechanisms that aren't kicked out by the old testing. Nothing beats time in grade like time in grade. Twas ever thus when life and liability is on the line.
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What makes you think older tech is more reliable?
It's not.
But older tech generally has more implementations available to choose from, and has been thoroughly tested in real world use by real world ginea pigs (you and me). When faced with a choice of components, you're going to choose the one that's not going to be back in your shop for replacement until after the X year warranty expires.
If you want to put in these new gizmos, as a auto producer, you'd have to take engineers away from the core business (designing cars) and put them on harddrive crash test
Makes no sense (Score:2)
The only problem I can think of is temperature. Don't know what temperature ranges an USB stick can handle and what's normally used for outdoor
Re:Makes no sense (Score:4, Insightful)
Laptops don't have thousands of lawyers constantly watching them and salivating over the possibility of a class-action lawsuit.
(they only have hundreds...)
If I was the boss of a car manufacturing company, I'd be cautious about everything. Nerdy customers moaning over the size of the onboard storage would be a distant second.
Keep the tech out of the car (Score:5, Insightful)
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There is no reason to have all of this junk in a new car. The only thing one needs is a USB charging port and an aux in for the smartphone to play audio through the cars audio system. Anything else the car does will be done poorly and until more standardization ensues, shouldn't be done. Where there is standardization, there is prosperity (USB, 3.5mm audio, Bluetooth, 12V power plugs)
Dead on. The first thought I had was "why would I want a 1TB hard drive in my car? By the time the 3 months elapsed for the content to be fetched, it would all be out of date!" A smartphone (or other personal electronic device du jour) is in a much better position to be the downloading/processing/storing device in the car, just give it as many good options as possible for the content to be used, and maybe a few good ways for the device to fit (factory smartphone "nest" in the dash? please?)
Of course, sell
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My smartphone holds 2GB, so I don't bother with it. Instead, I keep a bunch of CDs in my car to play music. If I had a smartphone with 100GB, I would probably still keep the CDs in my car so I don't need to worry about grabbing my phone or other portable device with a use outside of the vehicle (not to mention attracting theft if left inside the vehicle) every time I want to go for a ride. I'd much rather see a car radio with an SD card slot. This way, I have the option of leaving a 64GB card in there with
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I plug a 32gb flash drive into my car. Screw CDs...
safety tech (Score:5, Interesting)
the tech I care about is safety related...I can't wait until all this stuff is standard equip
blindspot detection
lane departure
collision detection
adaptive cruise control
electronic brake distribution / ABS
navigation
Re:safety tech (Score:5, Funny)
sarcasm? (Score:3, Informative)
Ugh. Well...
1. in many cars, prior to the anticipated accident it tightens the seat belts and applies the brakes
2. post accident it cuts off the fuel lines, unlocks the doors, turns on the hazard lights, and calls 911 and reports your GPS coords.
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Blindspot detection: I have no idea why In North America they don't teach this, but your side mirrors are PERFECT blind spot detectors. The trick is to have ZERO overlap between the cabin mirror and the side mirrors. If you see the same thing twice, you're doing it wrong. With my current setup, by
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Wishful thinking, I'm afraid.
Standardization is important to nerds and manufacturers, but it's not the source of profit for car manufacturers, especially in the luxury market. When somebody's buying a new computer, they look at the number of USB ports and consider what kind of future capabilities the machine will have. When buying a car, they look at the gadgets and think about what features they get now. It doesn't matter if the stereo can't be upgraded with new codecs. What matters is that it plays music
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If a customer gets burned by a poorly-working feature, they'll forget about it by the time they're ready to make their next purchase,
This is the same mental mistake the U.S. car manufacturers made in the 70s. It will take longer with this stuff because it is less critical to the long term operation of the car, but in a few years, certain manufacturers' cars will have a lower resale value than those of other manufacturers because they made these decisions now. This will lead fewer people being willing to buy their cars new. Sooner or later, one or more manufacturer will realize that they can gain an edge in the market by selling a vehicle
Re: Keep the tech out of the car (Score:2)
the gizmos = huge pr0fit$ (Score:3, Insightful)
first it was car DVD players with LCD screens
then navigation
now infotainment systems
these are normally $2000 upgrades on top of the most expensive models. these are huge profit upsell for what are essentially fairly cheap and old tech. MP3 players were around 15 years ago. it doesn't take a lot of CPU power to play an MP3 and fast forward the songs
Re:the gizmos = huge pr0fit$ (Score:5, Informative)
That's because a lot of manufacturers bundle together unrelated systems for upgrade packages. Want in-dash navigation? You have to get our Deluxe Travelling Upgrade for only $2499, which includes a moonroof, spoiler and complimentary handjob.
Re:the gizmos = huge pr0fit$ (Score:5, Funny)
how frequent is the handjob?
Re:the gizmos = huge pr0fit$ (Score:4, Funny)
how frequent is the handjob?
They didn't mention this is a handjob you're giving, to the dealer, along with the $2,499.
and MP3s (Score:3)
The top o' the line factory MP3 player in our 2013 Sienna trips all over itself if it encounters a non-standard bitrate. My 3 year old, low budget aftermarket player one takes whatever I throw at it.
HDD in cars? I sure hope not. (Score:2)
I would be very displeased if I bought a car that uses a mechanical drive that is going to get bumped around and severely damaged by a cars movement. I would expect that the car uses flash memory. 10GB of flash is still incredibly cheap (~$10) so I would expect more, but comparing desktop HDD capacity to that of a car's is asinine.
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I would be very displeased if I bought a car that uses a mechanical drive that is going to get bumped around and severely damaged by a cars movement. I would expect that the car uses flash memory. 10GB of flash is still incredibly cheap (~$10) so I would expect more, but comparing desktop HDD capacity to that of a car's is asinine.
It probably is flash (even 4 years ago 10gb was cheap) but consumers understand "hard drive" more than the jumble of explanations like "Flash" or "memory" or heaven forbid "solid state storage"...
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I would be very displeased if I bought a car that uses a mechanical drive that is going to get bumped around and severely damaged by a cars movement. I would expect that the car uses flash memory. 10GB of flash is still incredibly cheap (~$10) so I would expect more, but comparing desktop HDD capacity to that of a car's is asinine.
Agreed.
I do wonder, however, how well your average flash storage stands up to severe, sometimes rapid temperature cycling? My Google-fu must be a bit foggy today, since I can't seem to find any independent testing data, and I'm sure it's out there somewhere...
Meh. I could see permanent on-board storage being useful for movies in minivans, maybe. At least it keeps the kids from having to swap discs on long car rides...but even that use case is quite hindered if you're restricted to 10 GB, unless your kids
Better than Uncle Sammy (Score:2)
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modern tape drives are faster than disks and a lot more reliable
a few hundred LTO-4 tapes i have prove it. not a single failure
Re:Better than Uncle Sammy (Score:4, Informative)
The Antarctic research bases make your Navy tech look bleeding edge. It's all about how reliable you need something and older tech typically has few or no "unknown bugs" left to stumble upon.
Ford Explorer - If electronics fail, worst case is you have to call a tow truck. More likely, you just need to switch to AM/FM until you get around to fixing the radio.
Warship - Worst case, you get blown up. More likely, you'd have to withdraw from combat for a bit and can get a replacement flown in within a few days.
Antarctic Research base - Very limited supplies and the potential to go six months in darkness until a replacement can be flown in.
Re:Better than Uncle Sammy (Score:4, Informative)
Not to mention that warships need electronics that are hardened against EM weaponry.
As it turns out, Moore's law works against that requirement, since smaller circuits are more susceptible to interference.
The older designs, with the larger process, are all we know how to harden right now.
A $15 dollar SD car gives me more. (Score:4, Insightful)
Honestly, if they can't keep up they shouldn't even pretend. I'm sick of cars that have overworked electronics that are just waiting to fail. I don't want my car to be a computer.
I'd like to see a car maker have the courage to go in the opposite direction - simpler engineering that's easier and more affordable to maintain over the life of a vehicle.
Back in the 50's and 60's it was much easier for a kid to pop the hood and learn to tear down and rebuild an engine. Now it requires specialized tools. You don't see as many self taught gearheads.
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that's because cars broke down a lot and doing the work yourself saved a lot of money
modern cars will go a hundred thousand miles before a $350 service to replace some worn out parts. and even more before real components start to fail. no reason to learn to fix a car anymore except for the very basics. waste of time.
as far as GUI, my Honda CR-V has a nice GUI to show me the speed, mileage, and other data. Google and some of the other data fiends are going into the wrong direction with apps that try to bomba
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your timing belt, water pump, other belt replacement is 350$? i just spent 1200 for mine. that's not chump change. most shops end up at 350 for a standard brake pad replacement every couple of years.
Re:A $15 dollar SD car gives me more. (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem here is that you will loose a lot of the things which make the engines smaller (better managing of head-gasket displacement, so smaller bore and stroke to get the same amount of power), more efficient (direct fuel injection and stroke cycles), less polluting (no need for a leaded fuel to get burn and temperatures necessary for combustion not to mention the catalytic converters), quieter (see the previous reasons), and generally more pleasant to be around as I am not choking on the smog created by the engine when it is started up.
I, for one, like to have all of those things in my car and any future cars I wish to purchase. Of course those things will require special tools. Working on engines have always required special tools.
There is a certain amount of missing the forest for the trees in your statement, I feel.
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The problem here is that you will loose a lot of the things which make the engines smaller (better managing of head-gasket displacement, so smaller bore and stroke to get the same amount of power), more efficient (direct fuel injection and stroke cycles),
DI diesels aren't necessarily more fuel efficient than IDIs, and IDIs can burn more fuels which seems odd but is true in practice. Variable valve timing is quite beneficial, however, so it seems a shame to throw over all modern features.
less polluting (no need for a leaded fuel to get burn and temperatures necessary for combustion not to mention the catalytic converters), quieter (see the previous reasons),
They didn't need leaded fuels either, it was just much cheaper than hardened valves and seats.
and generally more pleasant to be around as I am not choking on the smog created by the engine when it is started up.
Only EVs offer that.
I, for one, like to have all of those things in my car and any future cars I wish to purchase. Of course those things will require special tools. Working on engines have always required special tools.
Well, no. "Special" tools are those not good for working on anything else. The only tool like that which is necessarily involved in long-lifespan engine maintena
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I don't know about that. You can do most tasks with just screwdrivers, some pliers and a good deep socket set. Now, if you're replacing a head gasket or something, you will want a proper torque wrench (note that if you take it the dealer, they are probably NOT going to bother to torque it to spec, just wrench the hell out of it until it won't turn any more). There are a few special tools that I have borrowed from time to time from O'Reilly or Autozone.
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You must not be young enough to remember those days, or you are old enough but don't really have any experience. Or you have a *seriously* thick pair of rose colored reality distortion glasses and false memories of a lost Golden Age.
Back then, you frequently *had* to learn how to maintain and overhaul your car - because the damn things broke down so
Comment removed (Score:5, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:4, Interesting)
Am I the only one? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Am I the only one that doesn't want a car that needs software updates?
You're missing out on all the pre-patching, best testing, out of control Prius going 88MPH on the highway adrenaline rush though.
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Yes. Or at least you're by far in the minority. The auto manufacturers have seen that gadgets sell new cars and are a way to differentiate themselves from the competition so if you think you'll see less features from here on out you're mistaken. The only refuge will probably be stripped work vehicles (Ford Sprinter vans and the like) or high end road legal race cars.
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wait a minute (Score:2)
honda plays from USB sticks and iphones (Score:2)
the stereo in my honda CR-v has a USB port. i plug in my iphone 5 and it plays from the device and from the different radio apps. it can also play from a USB stick.
what's the point of a hard drive?
Standard DIN anyone? (Score:4, Insightful)
Error in summary (Score:3)
And, while it's possible for the industry to build modular infotainment systems that could be upgraded over the life of the car, there are no plans to do so.
O RLY?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/04/22/nvidia_car_software/ [theregister.co.uk]
Standards (Score:2)
Having standard connectors could cut costs for car manufacturers. If you've ever replaced a car radio for your own instead of cheapo car radio, you run into the problem of needing different adapters to connect into a cars wiring loom.
How difficult is it to have manufacturers use ONE connector for +ve, GND, +VCC (for memory backup), and maybe one aux wire for security. Then there's the speakers connections! The car radio manufacturers have standardised more or less, but the car manufacturers have not.
Same reason NASA uses older hardware (Score:3)
You don't want to find out about an SSD read/write bug when you're 1 billion miles from earth. Let the technology shake out the bugs, then buy a reliable, cheaper product.
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Is It Too much to ask? (Score:2)
I weep for automotive future (Score:3)
This is fundamentally bad idea. Ability to remotely modify anything on a car is a disaster waiting to happen. Cars still last 15-20 years, what decade-old security or cryptography do you still trust in your everyday computing?
I can already see buffer overflow into root, then pushing custom firmware that interprets any accelerator input as maximum throttle and overrides braking by using traction control to redirect it to a single front wheel resulting in a spin-out.
Automotive development time (Score:5, Informative)
I spent 3 years (2003~2006) working with a company to deliver MP3 Car Stereos for GM. I believe they still deliver vehicles with them, but keep in mind, very little change had occurred in car stereos before that. Telematics (Auto PCs) had been worked on, too, I was involved with projects at Visteon and Lear, but that was 1999~2002 time frame, and the technology just wasn't there.
There is also a lot more to development of automotive ANYTHING. Electronics have to be a lot more robust (-40degF~140degF, high humidity, vibration, shock, etc...), materials used have to match the car interiors (and be properly made to not fade 'differently' from the rest). Once a product is usable, it goes through a lot of tweaking, as product line engineers determine calibrations to set (like lighting, for example). Failure Modes need to be sorted out to make it as bullet-proof as possible.
Oh, and LOTS AND LOTS of testing. On the bench, in the cars...
We had looked at jumpstarting more advanced tech, like HDDs in the radios to act as radio 'DVRs' and store user's audio tracks. At the time, drives were cost prohibitive and there were still too many legal issues to make it practical.
Mix in the regulatory issues like Driver Distraction, and an immature market, and there are good reasons why design hasn't settled down yet. It's just not as simple as throwing in a general purpose PC with a touchscreen mounted to the dash.
Five years ago, we (drivers) were all buying dedicated GPS units - now we get those features in our smart phones and tablets and desire integration into the car. Dashcams are all the rage in Russia, and probably should be everywhere else. Cars are getting smarter with vision systems (having worked on some of those systems now in use, you cannot imagine just how complicated those are) that do everything from detecting lane changes, signs and oncoming headlights (to dim brights) to braking for unexpected hazards.
The problem with this, and why I bring it up, is that we have no idea what form factors and features we'll demand in 5 years. Automotive, much like mobile, is undergoing tremendous growth where automation is concerned. Unlike mobile, there are still a lot of things computers can do for us as features of our cars that we really haven't fully figured out yet.
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In time they will also give birth to cute little ponies. It has not been announced, yet, but it is possible to do so.
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People who really care about cockpit entertainment will go through the trouble to have aftermarket equipment installed. This was true 40 years ago and it's the same today.
There are damn few aftermarket in-dash head units I consider well designed enough to put in a vehicle. Wake me when the majority pull their heads out of their collective asses and recognize that tiny buttons suck, touchscreens suck MORE, and that occasionally I wear gloves when inside the car.
I have ONE job when I'm in the driver's seat: Driving. Anything that helps me focus on that more is a win. Having to look down at a stereo to figure out where the hell the function I want to use is does NOT do t
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