USAF Strips 17 Officers of Nuclear Launch Authority 173
Freshly Exhumed writes "In an unprecedented action, a United States Air Force commander has stripped 17 of his officers of their authority to control and launch nuclear missiles. After a string of failings that the group's deputy commander said stemmed from 'rot' within the ranks, the suspensions followed a March inspection of the 91st Missile Wing at Minot Air Force Base, North Dakota, that resulted in a 'D' grade for the team tested on its mastery of the Minuteman III missile launch operations system. The 17 are being assigned to intensive retraining courses of 60 to 90 days, according to Lt. Col. John Dorrian, an Air Force spokesman."
Take them out of the loop (Score:3, Funny)
and replace them all with electronics.
Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Funny)
Re: Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Insightful)
One ended fine. As long as you can teach the system the only way to win is not to play.
Re: Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Funny)
Don't let it play Global thermonuclerar war for a decade though. It won't learn shit. Give it two minutes of tic-tac-toe, number of players zero, and it throws in the towel on the art of war completely. I know there is some kind of plot hole in here...
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Don't let it play Global thermonuclerar war for a decade though. It won't learn shit. Give it two minutes of tic-tac-toe, number of players zero, and it throws in the towel on the art of war completely. I know there is some kind of plot hole in here...
It explains why the attempt to prevent SkyNet from destroying human civilization simply by having WOPR play the game with it failed. SkyNet saw through the holes in logic, and happily carried on. (Well, I imagine the dialog probably looked like M-x psychoanalyze-pinhead anyway...)
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Yes, the end game was a draw, wasn't it?
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Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:4, Informative)
you idiot. Out of Slashdot NOW if you don't understand the joke.
Comment removed (Score:4, Funny)
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Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Funny)
Perhaps we could build a huge supercomputer called "Colossus" to take control. I hear Dr. Forbin is a sharp guy, he could be project lead...
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I prefer something along the lines of Skynet.
Sounds much nicer.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossus:_The_Forbin_Project [wikipedia.org]
Remake
Imagine Entertainment and Universal Studios confirmed that a remake titled Colossus, to be directed by Ron Howard, would be in production as of April 2007,[5] but was delayed for years. In October 2010, the project moved forward with the announcement that Will Smith will star in the lead role, with the script being written by James Rothenberg.[6] In July 2011, Variety reported that Universal replaced Rothenberg with Blake Masters of Law & O
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Adding programmers to a late development project makes it later.
Adding writers to a late screenwriting project makes it worse.
Those are the closest things to genuine axioms in either field of endeavor.
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“We've had men in those silos since before any of you guys were watching ‘Howdy Doody!’ Now I myself sleep pretty well knowing those boys are down there ... Mr. McKittrick, after very careful consideration, sir, I've come to the conclusion that your new [automated electronic] defense system sucks.” - Gen. Beringer.
Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Insightful)
so we'd be one component failure or software bug away from launch? no thanks. On something this critical, we need redundant humans pushing buttons and turning keys simultaneously..
Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Insightful)
replace them all with electronics.
I think that'd be a WOPR of a problem. I think maybe the parent knew that and expected us to get the reference.
Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Funny)
and replace them all with electronics.
Cyberdyne Systems Command and Control System Model Skynet 1.0.0 approves of this message.
Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Take them out of the loop (Score:4, Funny)
So it took cat posts not just up to 5, but Cat5e.
what side do you want? (Score:2)
what side do you want?
1. USA
2. USRR
3. France
4. North Korea
5. China
6. UK
7. Pakistan
8. India
9. Israel
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"I bring you peace. It may be the peace of plenty and content or the peace of unburied death."
Always the same (Score:5, Insightful)
The weak link is always humans. The USAF had the best of intentions, was well funded and had oversight. Even so this was allowed to happen. At least they caught it.
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The weak link is always humans.
Which is why we will soon be switching all nuclear launch authority to WOPR and/or Skynet...
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I thought Skynet's primary goal was to eliminate weak links from its system.
Re:Always the same (Score:5, Insightful)
The weak link is always humans. The USAF had the best of intentions, was well funded and had oversight. Even so this was allowed to happen. At least they caught it.
Back up. If you look more closely, even a 'D' rating doesn't mean there was ever any danger of an accidental nuclear release, or lost/misplaced inventory, etc. This relates specifically and only to combat-readiness. These are the guys that sit in a room for days, hours, weeks at a go, with nothing to do but wait for the red lights and klaxxon alarms that say WW3 just started. They got a poor review because they were too slow in their reaction times, amongst other things as it relates to launch readiness.
This is the same thing that every military unit, in every branch, deals with sooner or later. Everyone's performance slips sooner or later, even if you're special forces. That's why these audits are done, everywhere, all the time. It's routine, and these reviews are part of everybody's service file. A poor review doesn't even necessarily mean you're going to lose out on a promotion opportunity in the long run. People are benched for retraining all the time. Mind you, the first step is usually additional training in situ, but given the seriousness of their job, I can understand skipping that.
But let's be clear: This is the military performing as expected. This is a routine thing, and it's only making the news because it involves nuclear weapons. If it happened anywhere else, it'd be a non-event.
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I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying it was a safety issue, merely that no matter how high the stakes and how hard you try these things still happen.
The USAF is, as you say, the gold standard. Civilian nuclear power is considerably less motivated and less well funded, with less oversight. That's why I take issue with the "oh if we just put better people in charge" brigade, and their friends in the "we can make it idiot proof" troop.
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I think you missed my point. I wasn't saying it was a safety issue, merely that no matter how high the stakes and how hard you try these things still happen.
Which is, frankly, a pointless point to make.
The USAF is, as you say, the gold standard. Civilian nuclear power is considerably less motivated and less well funded, with less oversight. That's why I take issue with the "oh if we just put better people in charge" brigade, and their friends in the "we can make it idiot proof" troop.
No, but you can add auditing and process controls to manage and reduce the problems to a very small percentage. Which is what the USAF has done, and done well. This isn't evidence of a failure in process, but rather a validation of it. And I didn't say Chair Force is the gold standard...
My vote is for the Marines. ;)
Re:Always the same (Score:5, Funny)
The USAF is, as you say, the gold standard. Civilian nuclear power is considerably less motivated and less well funded, with less oversight.
You're right. I'm all for removing nuclear launch authority from the operators of civilian nuclear power plants.
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I suspect it's only making the news because it's slow news day... Otherwise, you're spot on. These kinds of failures, while not common, do happen. It happened to me back in the 1980's while serving onboard USS Henry L. Stimson (Blue). The WEPS dicked up some paperwork, resulting in a failure with imm
Unprecenented? (Score:5, Informative)
Hardly. This happened more than once during the cold war under SAC. Hell, entire wings have been decertified before. You don't have to go back farther than 2007 to find something similar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_United_States_Air_Force_nuclear_weapons_incident).
There was an article in Air Force Magazine a couple months back about SAC history that touched on this a bit:
http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2013/March%202013/0313SAC.aspx [airforcemag.com]
Unprecedented? (Score:4, Insightful)
Absoutely, this is not unprecedented. I'm a bit puzzled lately by this obsession with AF bashing by the press.
First off, it's extremely simple to fail -anything- involving nuclear weapons. Failing to dot an i type stuff... so when it takes about 'potential to compromise codes', it's relative.
Second, these young officers didn't "have the authority to launch weapons". Only the president does. Better phrased as "authority to be near nuclear weapons and follow launch procedures when authorized and provided necessary codes".
Third, this authority is often stripped temporarily on a routine basis for lots of reasons. Look up Personnel Reliability Program (PRP). Have a bitter divorce going on? PRP gets yanked. Foreclosed on? PRP yanked. Temporarily, not a career-ender, but better safe then sorry.
Finally, why the heck are Senators involved?? A group of young officers needed their attention grabbed... a mid-level officer (Lieutenant Colonel) grabbed them by the horns and shwacked then with a blunt email about what the expectations are. And this is bad how? Hire thousands of young employees into a job, and some of them will fail to meet your expectations, no matter how high/low they are. So a good leader tries to fix the employees. Looks like that's what this guy is trying to do in an email that was never meant to go public.
I'd be much more concerned about this is every single nuclear inspection in the military never reported any issues.
Re:Unprecenented? (Score:5, Interesting)
At that time Fairchild was a B52 base.
He said that every B52 they had was in the aIr loaded with nukes, wating for orders.
The nukes had to be armed in the air before dropping so that they wouldn't go off in case of a crash or accidental drop.
During post-flight inspections, it was discovered that one B52 went up with all of its nukes armed. If it had dropped a bomb due to mechanical failure or crashed, big boom
I can only imagine the size of the boom that occurred on base when it was discoevred.
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That is not true of some of the older weapons. While it is highly unlikely that the weapon would explode at full yield, a fizzle of several hundreds or even kilo- tons was very possible.... definitely enough to take out a town or the flight line at the launching base. For instance there were weapons that would have a little chain of beryllium(?) wound up in the core that would be pulled out after launch - this was to prevent accidental detonation as there were no other safeguards on the weapon. Spark the
About Time. (Score:3)
About time that the results of an inspection actually spurred the brass to do something about it.
So often, stuff just gets swept under the rug. I'm actually concerned over this, not because "oh look, we found 17 folks out of compliance", but more because "if this is what they are publisicing, what isn't being said?".
As much as I love seeing Officers getting called out, it really makes me worry about the Chair Farce's ability to get stuff right.
Re:About Time. (Score:5, Interesting)
In the Air Force, bad readiness inspection results usually get action. What they don't usually get is publicity.
This was a leak. I don't want to be too cynical about my military alma mater, but expect a serious leak-hunt along with all of the anticipated corrective actions, remedial training, and legal action.
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In the Air Force, bad readiness inspection results usually get action. What they don't usually get is publicity.
This was a leak. I don't want to be too cynical about my military alma mater, but expect a serious leak-hunt along with all of the anticipated corrective actions, remedial training, and legal action.
Not military, but in the corporate world the easiest and most effective way to get the heat taken of your failure is find (or generate) a bigger failure that can be blamed on someone else.
"Intensive retraining ..." (Score:2)
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I thought it was more like they tell you to turn the key, and if you don't, they point a gun at you and tell you to do it again.
What could possibly go wrong? (Score:5, Funny)
Isn't '60-90 days of retraining' about the same as what you get for failing a class in high school and getting forced to take summer classes if you want to graduate?
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I'd retrain them to clean toilets. Permanently.
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In the UK civil service, if you really ****'ed up, they wouldn't fire you, but simply redeploy you to something like "inventory control officer". You would spend the rest of your career travelling to and walking through every facility under your watch and scanning barcodes until the day you retired. Though, some people actually enjoyed that work, meeting new people and getting to travel for free.
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Would you still get your KCMG? Or would you top out at CMG for the screw up?
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If you can figure out how to clean toilets permanently, you can make a mint.
but you need 2 men to trun there keys (Score:2)
but you need 2 men to trun there keys at the same time
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How hard can it be to launch a missle?
1) The red light starts flashing
2) Open safe and confirm codes
3) Press big red button
4) Commit suicide
It's not like they need to be rocket scientists or anything.
If the world gets to the point where we're launching nuclear missiles, I think step 4 is redundant.
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It would be... interesting (read: extremely difficult unless you are a psychopath)... to be someone who actually launches a missile and survives to see the aftermath.
Of course, since the silos are on the primary target lists, you are right about suicide being redundant. Those Soviet SS-18's carried a lot of megaton warheads. If they launched first, I might just launch as a good-bye fuck you to the people who decided that they wanted me either dead, glowing, or both. Even though they might be aiming at th
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I do wonder how disorganized they could be. What happens after the alarm sounds? Did they go running for the metal box containing the authentication codes, only to find that they had also used it to store the team scores for the local Poker team tournaments, as well as the football pools and their lucky Powerball Jackpot numbers? Took them 10 minutes to find the right brown envelope.
Did somebody try and use the authentication codes for the Powerball to see if they would get a high prize? Then they made copi
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I couldn't shoot deer, bears, etc. but there's plenty of people who think it's great fun. Some of them even take their kids along when they do it so they can put one foot on them for the Facebook pics.
You can bet there's no shortage of people who'd press the button without hesitation. All the air force has to do is find a few of them.
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Mid-tribulation Premillennialists might be a good choice... though their 'not-launching-the-missiles' capabilities might be a problem.
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Whom do you think the Soviet and Chinese communists use? You may recall that they were both part of a club that treated Christians poorly [wikipedia.org]? China still is [weeklystandard.com].
... though their 'not-launching-the-missiles' capabilities might be a problem.
I think Christians understand that the end of the world is in God's hands, not man's. Trying to start it themselves would seem to be a sin.
“But of that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. -- Mark 13:32 [scripturetext.com]
This is in contrast to the Iranian branch of Shia Islam (the Iraqi branch is distinct) where
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I don't mind you taking a stab at it, but this is Slashdot after all. What's the point?
Launching ALL of the worlds nuclear weapons at once, would probably get rid of just enough of the assholes to let the remaining ones enjoy a few thousand years of relative peace.
Blow your matches boys.
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I get the impression that I need to joke a little more blatantly...
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That might be a plus, particularly as it isn't all that rare for people on Slashdot to seriously accuse various people or groups of conspiring to try to bring about Armageddon based on some distorted understanding of Christian beliefs. Shamefully, that sort of thing tends to attract high moderation - at least it has in the past. Glad you aren't one of them.
Peace
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Would YOU be able to push the big red button ? I know I wouldn't be able to.
That's because you haven't had the Air Force's Jesus Loves Nukes [telegraph.co.uk] training. </sarcasm>
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Why don't they just let 3 different people push 3 different buttons but only one of them is working?
I hear something similar was done with executions and apparently this magically removed all the moral quirks some executioners might have had. (It wouldn't work for me, but then again I'm not planning to work as an executioner in the first place.)
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Presumably, the part where you threaten to shoot someone who refuses to kill ten million people is not exactly SOP. It would also probably be ineffective... because if he's dead he still can't turn the key.
But the scene did provide some good drama.
Minecraft (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes but do they still have mine shaft access, that is what I want to know?! How else are we going to keep the commies from infiltrating our precious fluids? Grain alcohol for me I tell you what!
Seriously however, scoring a "D" in Minuteman Mastery should get your keys revoked. Somehow 60-90 days training doesn't make me feel any better if that is all it takes to get their access back....
The military takes this stuff really seriously (Score:5, Informative)
When I was in ROTC our squad officer said basically everyone up the chain of command was written up (permanent records) because one security guard with a shotgun was out of position in a nuke facility.
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And that sounds fairly reasonable to me.
Re:The military takes this stuff really seriously (Score:5, Funny)
Return to Old School discipline. (Score:2)
They need to bring the old SAC ways back. After TAC ate SAC and became ACC, things became famously slack.
Enforce discipline, fairly, but harshly. If people refuse to perform shitcan them. Air Force life is mostly cake, the bennies and retirement package are outstanding, and of course everyone there is a volunteer.
Perform or get the fuck out.
Meanwhile, they have been offered new jobs . . . (Score:4, Funny)
. . . in scenic North Korea. Wacky delusional dictator Kim Jong Un has promised them an exciting life in his missile silos, highlighted by Shirts & Skins hoops with Dennis Rodman.
. . . on Roller Skates . . . !
Re:Meanwhile, they have been offered new jobs . . (Score:5, Funny)
...and you get to be trained in Photoshop too.
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I can't believe any one would be low enough to consider that... those rules he made up for North Korean basketball are an abomination.
Something they'd never use, was taken away (Score:2)
Must hurt to know that you can't do something you'd probably never have to do anyways.
I know it's every boys dream to be able to launch a nuke.
yes, I am being sarcastic.
Ozzy? (Score:2)
Generals gathered in their masses.....
I hope (Score:3, Insightful)
What did they expect? (Score:2)
I'm not shocked that they'd have problems with people in a very stressful yet very boring job with little likelihood of ever being called on to do anything. Not to mention a big dose of moral self-doubts.
Time to retire silo'd missiles anyway. They are a relic of the past.
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It's organizational rot (Score:5, Insightful)
An easy and secure job sounds like an attractive thing on its face, but really, it's not, and often eventually turns into a "club." And it's boring.
Quote FTA, by a former launch-control officer, "Minuteman launch crews have long been marginalized and demoralized by the fact that the Air Force's culture and fast-track careers revolve around flying planes, not sitting in underground bunkers baby-sitting nuclear-armed missiles."
Comment removed (Score:3)
When asked for comment... (Score:2)
"Nuclear missile laun.. (Score:2)
"Nuclear missile laun.. and then it cuts off what do you do then?
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Not so big of a deal (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't that big of a deal. I know someone that had this job for a while. According to him (and of course this is just something a friend of mine told me over beers so take it for what it's worth) it's a miserable job. You're just stuck, bored to death for very very long periods of time. You have no sunlight. Everyone in the room has sworn and oath and passed psychological tests that prove they will kill you if you threaten a launch or are in any other way ordered to kill you. So it's not like you can really be friends with any of them in any real way. Even when you do get to come out after a tour, you're in the middle of no-where. It's just a vast empty plane. And the entire purpose of you being there is to destroy all of humanity. As bored as you are you have plenty of time to dwell on the nature of your job... your life... why you're th.... BWAP BWAP BWAP!!!!! ALERT ALERT!!! oooo... missed it by 2.3 seconds. Fuck it all to hell.
I don't want to be a scaremonger... (Score:2)
If they removed the ability to control and launch nukes from 17 people, my mind imagines this to still only be a portion of the overall number. Just how many people CAN launch nukes?
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Funny)
I think these are the same units who allowed a nuclear bomb to be shipped accidentally from ND to ??Mississippi?? a few years ago.
I, for one, shudder to think of Mississippi as a nuclear power...
Re:Not a new problem (Score:4, Interesting)
Barksdale AFB, Louisiana, [wikipedia.org] not Mississippi.
I don't think it was the same military units involved in both incidents. The 2007 incident was the 5th Bomb Wing, and this incident is the 91st Missile Wing. Technically, the 5th Bomb Wing is the host unit and the 91st is an independent tenant unit, since most of its weapons are off base.
But it's awkward and somewhat telling that both incidents, as well as some serious inspection failures in 2008 [wikipedia.org] are on the same base. Or maybe that's just the base that's had the most serious scrutiny so far because it's established a reputation of needing scrutiny.
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Doesn't this concern anyone? I mean, failing an inspection once, sure. But repeatedly failing seems to suggest that "intensive training" might not be the solution someone sold it to be. Because it sure smells like someone sold someone else a truckload of bullshit and 17 guys took the fall for it.
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Interesting)
Dunno.... but the AF used to give out 'Missile Commander' scholarships like water.
Sign up, get money for college, and then spend two years buried in a hole.
I met a few of these guys in grad school, and being a grunt in a silo sucked pond water or worse.
Always understaffed and had low morale, and the usual chain-of-command abuses
of the peons. And it's not like there's much to do in Minot, SD, so the officers figured
everyone should be available 80 hours a week. Good luck getting a degree with
the nearest university far (90 miles?) away and random, capricious time demands.
Good luck finding anything interesting to do, or getting or keeping a life.
Unsurprisingly, it affects/affected a lot of people very badly.
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Insightful)
And don't forget the detail of having to take care of the civilization-ending weapons of mass destruction while bored out of your mind.
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"intensive training" is a euphemism "A euphemism [wikipedia.org] is a generally innocuous word or expression used in place of one that may be found offensive or suggest something unpleasant." and unpleasant is a euphemism for "A living hell designed to make magots like you 17 wish you were ever born"
For example, remember that some fell asleep on watch, so obviously they need intensive training on staying awake, so I for see many 20 hour training days over the 60 day training cycle. Imagine 4 days with only 16 hours total
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You obviously missed the point so I'll spoon feed it to you just this once.
Sending 17 guys on "intensive training" is not a solution if this sort of thing has happened before. If it was a solution the "intensive training" would have helped the last time and this time would not exist. Doing this sort of thing publicly is called a FUCKING COVER UP. Someone is covering their ASS and THROWING 17 guys UNDER THE BUS for it.
For the point to work it doesn't fucking matter what "intensive training" is, or if it is e
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We'll try to stay serene and calm
When Alabama gets the bomb!
Who's Next? by Tom Lehrer.
Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Funny)
Your hurtful stereotypes wound me deeply. As a smirking east coast liberal elitist, I am only able to wear my Birkenstocks a few months out of the year, lest the cruel winter winds chill my delicate toes. Also, please keep in mind that (while liberals are required by union regulations to despise all practical knowledge except evilutionism), our culture has long prided itself on spending as many years as possible at expensive private universities and liberal arts colleges accruing detailed knowledge of the useless arts and humanities and indulging in depraved promiscuity. We work very hard to know as much as possible without crossing the lines into being capable of actual productivity.
As for Mississippi, it isn't the 'southern' that's the problem, it's the "scraping the bottom of the barrel among US states on an alarming number of measures" that's the problem.
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Re:Not a new problem (Score:5, Funny)
Kate Pierson and Fred Schneider were fairly pissed about that, too.
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My understanding is that operational test are performed periodically, and when they happen the Launch Officers are not sure whether it's a test or a live launch, they just do their thing then listen to see if the bird leaves the tube or not. Most of the time it's pretty easy, but lately with the war in Syria and chemical weapons rumours and North Korea being so stupid turning those keys has got to be pretty freaky.
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I don't know if you've thought this out.
By way of example, let me toss out a hypothetical outcome of your plan: "mutant zombie patent laywer".
Or picture one of these [wikia.com] with a list of BitTorrent leecher IPs and a contract from the RIAA.
Yeah, I heard you scream like a little girl. You know exactly what I mean.
It's a bad plan. Lawyers are the only thing likely to out-survive cockroaches. Lifting off and nuking them from orbit won't be enough.
Lawyers with frickin lasers on their heads (Score:3)
Lawyers are the only thing likely to out-survive cockroaches. Lifting off and nuking them from orbit won't be enough.
Another similarity with roaches: hitting them with a hammer results in a satisfying crunching sound....
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It still might be worth the effort... if only so that the sentient jellyfish have a chance to succeed where we failed.
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Except the problem being that some of the standards of the previous generations were so hard and difficult to achieve the way they wanted that cheating started happening. Policies have changed because we have better ones. PRP (Personal Reliability Program) is the program we follow now. It is designed to be a program where you keep track of yourself and others, and any issues that arrise you channel up the chain of command. If you get a traffic ticket, and you tell your commander, "No, I'm good. Simple mista
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The problem is the same one you get after a few thousand years of preparing for the End of the World in the biblical sense. Eventually, people figure out that smacking yourself in the face with a board every time the Plague breaks out does not result in you being ushered into heaven while the Earth is overrun by the Armies of Satan. You just get a really bad headache and permanent double vision.
Our forefathers thought that the end of the world would come at the hands of the Red Commies if they were not re