Israeli Army Retweeting 1967 War As It Happened 317
An anonymous reader writes "This is a new one, twitter as a form of historical reenactment: 'Israel's army is giving a "live" blow-by-blow account of the 1967 Six Day War, tweeting each air strike at the exact time it occurred 46 years ago ... @IDF1967 "is an official Israel Defence Forces account that is aimed at re-tweeting the events of the Six Day War in live time", ... The account was tweeting key events in the battle against the armies of Egypt, Jordan and Syria that took place from June 5 to 10, 1967 and includes pictures and videos, the army said. The tweets are mostly in Hebrew, with some translated into English. "In response to repeated provocations by Egypt, the State of Israel and the IDF are going to war. We will not sit idly as the enemy forces tighten the noose around our necks," the opening tweet said around 8.00am (1500 AEST) on Wednesday when Israel landed its first preemptive air strike 46 years ago.'"
Liberty (Score:4, Informative)
So when are they going to reenact the attack on the USS Liberty?
Re:Liberty (Score:4, Interesting)
So when are they going to reenact the attack on the USS Liberty?
On June 8, I suppose.
Re:Liberty (Score:5, Informative)
The USS Liberty attack demonstrates why you shouldn't send your SIGINT assets into a volatile war zone. The incident was collateral damage and the Israeli's did apologize. Also at the time the US-Israeli relationship was nothing like it is today. They were not enemies but Isreal was not a US client. In 1956 the US forced France, Isreal, and Britain to call off their attempts to take over the Suez Canal. At the time the Russians were supporting Egypt and continued fighting might have dragged the US into a direct confrontation with Russia. In the 1973 war the US government did not resupply Isreal until after the Israeli's broadcast their intentions to enact their "Samson Option" in the clear so all parties could intercept the message. The Samson option meant they were loading their nukes on their F-4's and Jericho missiles. Nixon agreed the next day to re-supply the Israelis.
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The USS Liberty attack demonstrates why you shouldn't send your SIGINT assets into a volatile war zone. The incident was collateral damage and the Israeli's did apologize.
Ummm... did more than apologize: it paid about $13mil [wikipedia.org] for the gaffe. True, the apologies seemed to have helped, as Israel paid only $6mils from the total of 17mils bill+interests quoted to them by US for the material damage.
Anyway, the above is likely to be off-topic: I can bet Israel is not going to tweet about these payments.
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The USS Liberty attack demonstrates why you shouldn't send your SIGINT assets into a volatile war zone. The incident was collateral damage and the Israeli's did apologize.
Ummm... did more than apologize: it paid about $13mil [wikipedia.org] for the gaffe. True, the apologies seemed to have helped, as Israel paid only $6mils from the total of 17mils bill+interests quoted to them by US for the material damage. Anyway, the above is likely to be off-topic: I can bet Israel is not going to tweet about these payments.
Then why did Congress increase funding to Israel by the same amount as the settlement, effectively meaning that Israel didn't pay a settlement?
Do you suggest we are in for an answer to your question via the current "twitter reenactment"?
(grin)
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"At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nmi (29.3 mi; 47.2 km) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident [wikipedia.org]
Isreal has a habit of attacking who they want, when they want, where they want...with no repercussions whatsoever.
I am Jewish by birth but I am disgusted with the politics of Isreal.
I wonder (Score:2)
Eyeroll (Score:5, Insightful)
Interesting piece of propaganda
propaganda test (Score:3)
It is propaganda, but it looks to me like they are testing some kind of whole system that does this...maybe it scrapes updates from some kind of internal database of action reports?
Whatever it is, it's like an "API" for tweeting a war...the IDF has been keen on using twitter as part of it's media relations...or propaganda depending on your view...
They had 18 year old IDF draftees posting pics of themselves with their rifles like it was summer camp...hashtaging with #phonecian
The writings of Zev Chafets are
Worthless propoganda (Score:5, Insightful)
Since when did Slashdot become horribly biased in supporting Israel?
I assume the tweets will come strictly from an Israeli perspective.
Can we have a counter channel with a play-by-play according to the other sides? Then it would actually be historically interesting, and not pure one-sided YAY WAR, YAY ISRAEL propaganda.
When I read an international news story from an American outlet, I also try to read the Al Jazeera version in an attempt to extract the truth from somewhere in the middle. This is kind of like that.
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No doubt you felt the same way back in 2011 when someone took to tweeting WWII in real time: http://thenextweb.com/twitter/2011/09/25/how-an-ex-history-student-is-using-twitter-to-bring-world-war-2-to-life/ [thenextweb.com]
Were you calling for a 'counter channel with a play-by-play according to the other sides' back then? perhaps adding: "YAY WAR, YAY ALLIES propaganda"?
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Outnumbered, sure.
Outgunned, err, not so much.
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Since when did Slashdot become horribly biased in supporting Israel?
The slashdot summary is factual, it doesn't give an opinion on the accuracy or merits of the reenactment. In other words the summary is written as NEWS should be written, the fact it is reporting on IDF propaganda in no way makes it a tool of the IDF.
Can we have a counter channel with a play-by-play according to the other sides?
Sure, but why would you want to match bad taste with more bad taste?
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Can we have a counter channel with a play-by-play according to the other sides?
I guess "we" can have whatever "we" want as long as "we" are willing to do it. Surely you wouldn't expect the IDF to play characters of the other side and post what they thought would have been said. If "we" can find sources of what was going on in the command centers of the other armies, then I guess "we" could make a Twitter account and start posting that stuff. Or maybe Egypt, Syria, and Jordan can find the time to post that material between dealing with refugees, civil war, protests, etc. Otherwise,
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I also want to point out how you immediately assume that Slashdot's posting of a story about a current event (the IDF giving an account of a past war) somehow makes all of Slashdot "horribly biased in supporting Israel". Who exactly has the bias here?
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So you are saying that excluding news about Israel shows you are even handed? I'm not buying that one.
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> I assume the tweets will come strictly from an Israeli perspective.
Are any of the other parties at Liberty to do so? Since this was a humiliating loss for everyone else, I could see why a lot of the other countries might not be too keen to remember it?
If you wanted to, could you tweet on the other side without getting shot?
Will you make excuses for those countries if the answer is no?
Although the Syrians are probably too busy worried about getting gassed right about now.
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Since when did Slashdot become horribly biased in supporting Israel?
It's a US website, and having witnessed first hand how fucked up the teaching of history and reporting of foreign affairs is in that country I'm not surprised that it's biased. As an example, a couple of years ago a new book on the Anglo-American war of 1812 was published. It got a write up in a US paper where it was lambasted for not repeating the mantra that the British started the war. In actual fact, the documentary evidence proves th
Hyperboleeeee (Score:2)
> now they are nazis
Oh come on! Is creating a Twitter account so you can read these "tweets" really that hard?
Cool, why not reenact WW2? (Score:2)
@Wehrmacht1939: "Seit 5 Uhr 45 wird jetzt zurückgeschossen!"
Re:Cool, why not reenact WW2? (Score:5, Informative)
That's done already! https://twitter.com/RealTimeWWII [twitter.com]
Attack on the USS Liberty (Score:5, Interesting)
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You're not biased at all. From your article:
In May 1968, the Israeli government paid US$3,323,500 (US$21.9 million in 2013) as full payment to the families of the 34 men killed in the attack. In March 1969, Israel paid a further $3,566,457 in compensation to the men who had been wounded. On 18 December 1980, it agreed to pay $6 million as settlement for the final U.S. bill of $17,132,709 for material damage to the Liberty itself plus 13 years' interest.
Seems like they acknowledged it almost immediately - less than a year to begin to pay the families, which are definitely the most important part of repaying the US. As for an official press release and announcement, you can't forget that the Cold War was going on then, and the entire Middle East was far more unstable than it is even after the Arab Spring.
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You're not projecting at all. The fact they made token payments later does jack and squat to change the fact the IDF knew perfectly well what they were doing at the time, and Jack left town.
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I wonder if that broadcast will include the attack on the US Liberty in which they killed 34 American Sailors and was covered up for MANY years
The attack wasn't covered up, it was front page news [uss-liberty.com]. The fact that you didn't know about it doesn't mean nobody else did.
USS Liberty attack tapes released [cnn.com]
The NSA on Tuesday released audiotapes of Israeli pilots and ground control speaking in Hebrew, along with English transcripts.
The recordings were made by a nearby American surveillance aircraft in the immediate aftermath of the attack.
"For your info, it is apparently an Arab ship," says ground control.
"Roger," says the pilot.
"It is an Egyptian supply ship," says ground control.
"Roger," comes the response.
The NSA released the tapes and transcripts under the Freedom of Information Act in response to a request from Miami Judge Jay Cristol.
An author of a book on the attack, Cristol said the tapes show it was a tragic accident in a time of war -- that the Israelis mistook the ship for an Egyptian one.
"I don't think there's any question that anyone who reads these tapes would be absolutely convinced there was the fog of war out there," Cristol said.
Why did Israel attack USS Liberty? [bbc.co.uk]
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Michael Oren is just one step above the notorious "Comical Ali". People in the US are becoming better informed. If the israelis are smart enough , they'll sideline him and get another ambassador.
Fog Of War (Score:5, Interesting)
It would be most interesting if the tweeting team managed to dig deep enough into the historical documents to recreate the fog of war that blankets all such events, announcing and then retracting as reports arrived at HQ (or whatever).
Full realism would be uninteresting since no real HQ would tweet everything it thought it knew at the moment it knew it. But then, perhaps using declassified documents, we could recreate what it would be like to work at the top levels of a Twitter-based government with Top Secret initial and revised reports and guesses bouncing around, seeing how little time people really had to make decisions that put thousands or millions of lives at risk.
USS Liberty (Score:3, Informative)
I wonder if they'll tweet an "oops,our bad #fail #sosorry" when it comes time for them to lay waste to an American military vessel in international waters.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident [wikipedia.org]
I have to wonder.... (Score:4, Interesting)
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Maybe they could do that next. I do wonder why you think it'd somehow be sauce for the gander.
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As is usually the case, what Zionist shitbags complain about others doing, they did first. Stuff like massacres [blogspot.com] of Palestinians and terrorist bombings of government buildings. [wikipedia.org] From a bunch of immigrants from Europe, as Jews were less than 10% of the population in 1900.
Zionism == Manifest Destiny. An entirely racist sense of ent
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Well, I am sure that if I dig deep enough, I will find the same with your ancestors, no matter of your country of origin.
Article is Flamebait (Score:4, Insightful)
Why post this article on Slashdot? Its obvious flamebait, bringing out all the hatred, hand-wringing and dubious justifications from all sides of this conflict.
Nothing good is going to come from all the comments in here, ive already seem my fair share of sheer hatred in the comments so far.
Why post this Slashdot? Because its on Twitter?
Re:Article is Flamebait (Score:5, Insightful)
>Why post this Slashdot? Because its on Twitter?
Because it's an interesting use of technology. Pretending difficult issues like the Israel/Palestine thing do not exist may prevent arguments on slashdot but it's certainly not going to do the world any good. Flamewars on this site are the least of the middle-Easts concerns.
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no, no its not an interesting use of technology at best its a stunt
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propaganda is hardly a novel use of technology anymore..
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Oh noes! I didn't capitalize my 'i'....
I apologize from the very bottom of my cold, cold heart.
Twitter vs Wall St (Score:4, Interesting)
Last time there were tweets of this nature, Wall Street had a flash crash.
I wonder if the 1.4% drop in the S&P500 today is related in any way.
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um... no.
I am unsure to which of my two statements that is referring to as neither was a question
Last time there were tweets of this nature, Wall Street had a flash crash.
um... no.
So are you saying that this event didn't take place? [citation [huffingtonpost.com] needed [abc.net.au]]
I wonder if the 1.4% drop in the S&P500 today is related in any way.
um... no.
So are you saying I am NOT wondering if the drop is related
While I am somewhat confused, I do have one very strong argument to put across - and it goes a little something like this:
um... whatever.
Why? (Score:3)
I wonder why the IDF is doing this? Are they completely tone-deaf to public opinion?
I support Israel, but sometimes their PR blunders make we wonder what exactly they are thinking....
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I wonder why the IDF is doing this? Are they completely tone-deaf to public opinion?
Just the opposite, I'd figure. Let's see what public sentiment for a new war with Syria or Iran is like before and after this war-glorifying propaganda. I'll bet it goes up. People are like that all over.
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Nuke 'em 'till they glow, then shoot 'em in the dark.
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Are they completely tone-deaf to public opinion?
Whose public opinion? All the Hebrew speaking twitter readers spread across the world and in all the Arab lands?
I don't suppose you know of any Arab nations that have actual celebrations and parades for their armed forces instead of twitter posts, do you?
Egypt: Armed Forces Begin Sixth October Victory Celebrations By Air Parades [allafrica.com] - 5 October 2012
The Armed Forces will begin on Saturday celebrations of the 39th anniversary of the 6th October War victory by staging air parades in the skies of 21 cities in 12 Egyptian governorates.
Different types of military aircraft will partake in the parade to show the high capabilities of the Air Force servicemen.
The military air shows will be held in the governorates of Cairo, Giza, Alexandria, Beheira, Sharqiya, Daqahlia, Gharbia, Ismailia, Suez, Port Said, Beni Sweif and Minya
Good grief, who will warn them?
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Yes they are. The IDF is the world's most autist organisation, too arrogant to ever think it could be in the wrong.
Don't take my word for it, General Spector analyses it quite well in the last chapters of his memoirs 'Loud and Clear', to name just one source.
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I doubt if that describes the situation well. The IDF does have a military doctrine that is not very common, and it involves being able to strike whenever they consider it in their interest. This doctrine of complete military freedom is completely illegal in terms of international law, but it's accepted in the case of "poor little defenseless" Israel (poor little Samson as some call it). If you can get away
No it's not (Score:2)
This is a new one
No it's not.
@CenturyAgoToday [twitter.com]
@RealTimeWWII [twitter.com]
Neat, though, but certainly not the first.
Except it's not "a new one" (Score:2)
Here's the Twitter account for the Titanic play by play. I seem to remember there was an earlier one as well.
https://twitter.com/TitanicRealTime [twitter.com]
Once again, Zionists hoisted on their own petards (Score:5, Informative)
Israel's justification for starting the 1967 war is the Eygptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran. Which, for some reason, also entitled them to seize a great deal of surrounding land, most importantly the West Bank.
Except that means that any and all attacks from Hamas or Hezbollah in response to Israel's total blockade of Gaza are completely justified, according to Israeli rules. Just as Israel's possession of a couple hundred nuclear weapons means that they should be threatened with economy-destroying sanctions and military strikes, if Iran is threatened with the same in case they someday decide they want a nuclear weapon.
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Israel's justification for starting the 1967 war is the Eygptian blockade of the Straits of Tiran.
So, Israel's justification for attack was an act of war by Egypt? Brilliant!!
Except that means that any and all attacks from Hamas or Hezbollah in response to Israel's total blockade of Gaza are completely justified, according to Israeli rules.
Wrong again. First, it isn't a total blockade. If it was, the Palestinian Arabs in Gaza would not have been able to build a new shopping center, would they? But weapons are being stopped, like the many Iranian rockets being smuggled into Gaza. [haaretz.com]
Biggest mall in Gaza Strip opens its doors [gulfnews.com]
Second, Gaza is not a nation state, but a territory. It shouldn't be attacking anyone. Any attacks coming from there are either direct aggressio
So.... (Score:3)
Any particular reason they are choosing to do this?
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Godwin's law states:
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
So, far from violating it, GP demonstrates Godwin's law. Faster than usual, but that's probability for you.
Re:now they are nazis (Score:4, Interesting)
What do you mean, "now".
Here are six mass graves discovered this week, in Jaffa, full of Arab native civilians "cleansed" from their city in 1948.
'The remains belong to people of different ages, including women, children and the elderly, some of which bear signs of violence.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html [dailymail.co.uk]
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Ah the 1948 war, where the arabs told the other arabs living in said regions that if they flee, they'll be able to live on the land of the jews that they those arab armies were going to ethnically cleanse. Never mind that said arab armies did in fact commit cleansing...of their fellow arabs, and in those regions among others. That's not new, news.
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You talk nonsense. People were murdered and their home stolen. After pushing them onto reservation-type camps, they are still subject to things like collective punishments - which include mass aerial bombardment of civilian homes with white phosphorus, or the interruption of potable water.
Both are war crimes.
None of this can be justified in any way by the alleged rhetoric of some ill-defined "arabs" saying something that - if you are understood correctly - would amount to: "If you leave your property that
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How do you feel about two wrongs making a right?
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No. But it does equate to a double standard. A different standard is applied to Israel than to everyone else. What's worse is that the other Arab countries are treating their own people like shit.
That's like you pissing on your family. That's actually WORSE than some stranger doing it.
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No. But it does equate to a double standard. A different standard is applied to Israel than to everyone else. What's worse is that the other Arab countries are treating their own people like shit.
Despite your flamebait moderation, you are essentially correct.
As far as a double standard against Israel, the UN is a great example of that.
From: Middle East Quarterly - Winter 2004
The Case for Israel [meforum.org]
... The Case For Israel ... Dershowitz points out that a full 27 percent of the U.N.'s country-specific resolutions critical of a state have been directed against it. In contrast, no resolution in the history of the U.N. Commission on Human Rights has condemned Syria, China, Saudi Arabia, or Zimbabwe, all of which are self-evidently far worse violators of human rights. Israel, asserts Dershowitz, has a "far better record on human rights than any other nation in the Middle East and most other nations in the world." As evidence, he notes that "Israel is the only nation in the world whose judiciary actively enforces the rule of law against its military during wartime" and that "Israel has killed fewer innocent civilians in proportion to the number of its own civilians killed than any country engaged in a comparable war."... The Case for Israel [meforum.org]
Fighting the Lies Harder Than Fighting the War - Israel does not "deliberately" target civilians. [nationalreview.com]
Regarding the mistreatment of Arabs by Arabs, two interesting cases that immediately come to mind:
Black September - In Context [bbc.co.uk]
Hama 1982 – The Syrian massacre you never heard about [abovetopsecret.com] (Not for those of weak
Re:now they are nazis (Score:4, Insightful)
A different standard is applied to Israel than to everyone else.
Yup, like nuclear weapon arming, and massive military investment from the US. The soviet union is long dead.
Re:now they are nazis (Score:5, Informative)
You are on the wrong side of history, and pretty much all of the nonsense you refer to is coming from you. The Arabs in Palestine were following the orders of the Arab leaders to evacuate. They had been making it clear that a genocide was coming, and who wants get pulled into a genocide? If the Israelis hadn't been able to defend themselves and stop the many attacking Arab armies, it is very possible that any Arabs that had remained behind and ignored the commands to leave would have been killed along with the Jews.
Time Now for a Declaration of Mideast Peace; Doomed Arab Refugees [nytimes.com]
In ''Semites and Anti-Semites'' (New York, 1986), Bernard W. Lewis quotes (page 270) from the memoirs of Khalid al-Azm, Prime Minister of Syria in 1948-49, listing the factors that led to Israel's success:
''Fifth: the summons of the Arab governments to the population of Palestine to leave the country and take refuge in the neighboring Arab countries . . . this collective flight served the Jews and strengthened their position without effort. . . . Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes when we ourselves were the ones who induced them to leave them. . . . We doomed a million Arab refugees, by calling on them and insisting that they abandon their land, their homes, their work and their occupations, and we made them unemployed and homeless.''
Azzam's Genocidal Threat [meforum.org]
An October 11, 1947 report on the pan-Arab summit in the Lebanese town of Aley,[9] by Akhbar al-Yom's editor Mustafa Amin, contained an interview he held with Arab League secretary-general Azzam. Titled, "A War of Extermination," the interview read as follows (translated by Efraim Karsh; all ellipses are in the original text):
Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha spoke to me about the horrific war that was in the offing saying:
"I personally wish that the Jews do not drive us to this war, as this will be a war of extermination and momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Tartar massacre[10] or the Crusader wars. I believe that the number of volunteers from outside Palestine will be larger than Palestine's Arab population, for I know that volunteers will be arriving to us from [as far as] India, Afghanistan, and China to win the honor of martyrdom for the sake of Palestine You might be surprised to learn that hundreds of Englishmen expressed their wish to volunteer in the Arab armies to fight the Jews.
"This war will be distinguished by three serious matters. First—faith: as each fighter deems his death on behalf of Palestine as the shortest road to paradise; second, [the war] will be an opportunity for vast plunder. Third, it will be impossible to contain the zealous volunteers arriving from all corners of the world to avenge the martyrdom of the Palestine Arabs, and viewing the war as dignifying every Arab and every Muslim throughout the world
"The Arab is superior to the Jew in that he accepts defeat with a smile: Should the Jews defeat us in the first battle, we will defeat them in the second or the third battle or the final one whereas one defeat will shatter the Jew's morale! Most desert Arabians take pleasure in fighting. I recall being tasked with mediating a truce in a desert war (in which I participated) that lasted for nine monthsWhile en route to sign the truce, I was approached
Re:now they are nazis (Score:5, Insightful)
You're projecting, with the usual bullshit handwaving and the usual canards to justify the unjustifiable. The formation of Israel was impossible without massive land theft from the native population, from a bunch of immigrants just off the boat from Europe.
Then there's the other bullshit in the form of headscratching that the victims of land theft and ethnic cleansing feel some sort of animosity towards their oppressors. Do you also spend a lot of time yelling at the Sioux for being pissed that the Black Hills were stolen from them? Still calling Nelson Mandela a terrorist because he resisted Apartheid?
Zionism is amoral sociopathy. A sense of entitlement to other people's land and property is bullshit, whether it was the Spaniards, the Pope, or the Germans doing it to Jews, and it's bullshit when Zionists do it to the people who have lived in Palestine for centuries.
Re:now they are nazis (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:now they are nazis (Score:4, Insightful)
Is there a logical or rhetorical fallacy you won't ignore, in the pursuit of your defense for the outlaw nation?
Yeah, on both sides. Did you know that the Jews globally lost more property than they gained in 1948? After Arabs lost the war, Jews everywhere in the Middle East were essentially evicted and all their stuff was confiscated, depriving them of wealth amounting to almost three billion dollars (1948 dolllar value, try adjusting *that* for current value) and lands larger than the 1948 Israel.
But the people murdered by Stern and Irgun were innocent. Those who lost homes and property were not even indirectly responsible. It's like claiming Catholic farmworkers should be exploited because there are priests who molest children.
It's funny that countries such as Jordan and other, despite supposedly being the same ethnic group, don't actually want these troublemakers.
Yeah. Like why England and Finland weren't asking to accept the whole nation of Croatia in the 90's. Hey! There the same ethnic group. Your racism is vile. "Troublemakers"? They were just born there, descendents of Ancient Greece, Phoenecia, Rome, Egypt, Sumer and - dare I say Judea. But that's "causing trouble".
"Mass aerial bombardment"? And do you actually have anything to support this claim?
Operation Cast Lead [foreignpolicyjournal.com]
I may be wrong, but isn't it the case that Israel actually provides the water to the West Bank and to Gaza at their own expense, essentially at a loss?
"Here, we stole your aquifers. Aren't we forebaring and even magnanimous in trickling some back, after diverting it to water illegal colonial settlements? Gosh. What's a little matter of war crime, compared to our virtues?"
Re:now they are nazis (Score:5, Informative)
Ah the 1948 war, where the arabs told the other arabs living in said regions that if they flee, they'll be able to live on the land of the jews that they those arab armies were going to ethnically cleanse.
Ah yes, you're referring to this [palestineinformation.org]
The new state of Israel spread the story that all these Palestinians had left under orders from Arab leaders, citing "Arab broadcasts" telling people to move away so that Arab armies could "operate without interference.” There has never been any evidence for this story. Both US and British intelligence services were monitoring all broadcasts during the period, and not a single "Arab broadcast" telling people to leave was recorded. In fact, several Arab broadcasts were recorded telling the population to stay put. Israeli forces, meanwhile, were using threats, violence, and murder to force many Palestinians out of their homes.
It is no longer the official line of the Israeli Foreign Office that Arab leaders ordered Palestinians to leave Palestine.
Besides, I never even understood the reasoning behind this justification to condemn all Palestinians for an alleged radio broadcast supposedly sent from a different Arab country. If you're a civilian and not part of the military, since when does fleeing a region about to become a battlefield even considered a crime? Are you suggesting that non-military people should just stay there, Arab or not, while two armies are supposedly converging on each other?
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There are better sources.
Time Now for a Declaration of Mideast Peace; Doomed Arab Refugees [nytimes.com]
In ''Semites and Anti-Semites'' (New York, 1986), Bernard W. Lewis quotes (page 270) from the memoirs of Khalid al-Azm, Prime Minister of Syria in 1948-49, listing the factors that led to Israel's success:
''Fifth: the summons of the Arab governments to the population of Palestine to leave the country and take refuge in the neighboring Arab countries . . . this collective flight served the Jews and strengthened their position without effort. . . . Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes when we ourselves were the ones who induced them to leave them. . . . We doomed a million Arab refugees, by calling on them and insisting that they abandon their land, their homes, their work and their occupations, and we made them unemployed and homeless.''
You may want to review this post [slashdot.org] in this same topic for more information.
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Ah the 1948 war, where the arabs told the other arabs living in said regions that if they flee, they'll be able to live on the land of the jews that they those arab armies were going to ethnically cleanse. Never mind that said arab armies did in fact commit cleansing...of their fellow arabs, and in those regions among others. That's not new, news.
The post above is essentially correct, and it shouldn't be down modded.
Time Now for a Declaration of Mideast Peace; Doomed Arab Refugees [nytimes.com]
In ''Semites and Anti-Semites'' (New York, 1986), Bernard W. Lewis quotes (page 270) from the memoirs of Khalid al-Azm, Prime Minister of Syria in 1948-49, listing the factors that led to Israel's success:
''Fifth: the summons of the Arab governments to the population of Palestine to leave the country and take refuge in the neighboring Arab countries . . . this collective flight served the Jews and strengthened their position without effort. . . . Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes when we ourselves were the ones who induced them to leave them. . . . We doomed a million Arab refugees, by calling on them and insisting that they abandon their land, their homes, their work and their occupations, and we made them unemployed and homeless.''
You may want to review this post [slashdot.org] in this same topic for more information.
Re:now they are nazis (Score:5, Insightful)
Oddly enough, the article doesn't say anything about anyone being "cleansed" from their city in 1948.
What it does say is that:
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Firstly... never, ever source the daily mail. It is always wrong.
OK, I exaggerate... it gets the weather right one time out of ten.
The Mail is not a reliable news source, by any standard. You might as well be listening to your neighbour's chicken's cat's banker's lawyer.
Saw (Score:2)
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You clearly haven't the remotest clue what the Nazis actually did.
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Well technically it was the Romans at the behest of the Jewish religious leaders. Jesus kept calling them hypocrites and then they proved him right.
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Re: I remember a joke from the time (Score:2)
Could be m for macaca, though. That would work in Russian as well.
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The domestic T-72 tank had actual armor, whereas the T-72M export version had poured concrete between the bodywork plating.
Really? We have a few dozen modernized and upgraded T-72M4CZ tanks and I'm pretty sure the engineers would have noticed the concrete.
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Victor Suvorov is probably readable if you are into alternative history, but if you are looking for facts, his books are at about the same level as Tom Clancy's pulp fiction.
Re: The First in a Series! (Score:5, Funny)
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...and let's not forget that soon-to-be #tt that's always great at parties and family dinnertime:
Turkey retweets the Funny Thing That Happened With Armenians That Totally Was Not a Genocide or Anything Like That, Turkey Swears [wikipedia.org].
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You're thinking the Yom Kippur war in 1973. The 6 day war the arabs were massing for an attack on all sides, and Israel pre-empted the lot of them.
There was a (relatively lengthy) period of tension building up to that however.
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This is a good general resource: sixdaywar.co.uk [sixdaywar.co.uk]
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You're thinking this revisionist history still flies? Israel started the 1967 war with a sneak attack on the Egyptian Air Force, after Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran. The formation of Israel was impossible without ethnic cleansing and wars of conquest from the people living there, much like the formation of the United States. Except the latter didn't hap
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Israel started the 1967 war with a sneak attack on the Egyptian Air Force, after Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran.
Blockades in international law are acts of war. You have it backwards as usual, but thanks for yielding the point.
The formation of Israel was impossible without ethnic cleansing and wars of conquest from the people living there, much like the formation of the United States.
The Jews that immigrated to Palestine bought land that nobody wanted and developed it. They paid high prices for other land. The Arab leadership had to threaten to kill anybody that sold more land to Jews to reduce the sales as the Jews were paying very good money. As noted in this post [slashdot.org], it was Arab leaders that ordered the Arabs of Palestine to leave their homes so that the invading Arab ar
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...focus their attention on war
Euphemisms aside, they are at war. Not focusing on it is a sure ticket to extinction.
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there's enough people here that really think that way
Lulz .. it's not my thinking which caused you to misinterpret the post.
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Just a plain dick move
Was that pun intended?
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Israel must also know quite clearly that this will be perceived as provocation by their neighbours and after 60 years of continuous conflict
So, if the Arab countries alert their Hebrew reading population to get on the internet and go to that web page, some of them might be offended.... by reading what is in the history books, or more or less in Israeli newspapers? I think that is a bit of a stretch. The only people that are really likely to be offended about this are the people that already hate Israel.
Just a plain dick move.
I think you set the bar a bit low there. What is your reaction to this [palwatch.org]?
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I think you set the bar a bit low there. What is your reaction to this [palwatch.org]?
Israel is a first world nation. Would you reaction be the same if you learned that one of your friend beat his wife and kids rather than some unemployed uneducated alcoholic from the shitty part of town ?
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Hell. You don't even have to focus on what the Nazis did to the Jews. You could completely ignore the Jews and just focus on what the Nazis did to EVERYONE ELSE.
The Nazis were genocidal dirt bags even if you ignore the Holocaust completely.
That's the astounding part of idiots that try to conflate the Nazis and Israel. They don't just have no clue, they have a negative clue.
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There have been lots of accounts tweeting history as it happened. Hell, someone is tweeting production pictures from Sean of the Dead on the 10 year anniversary of when they were taken.
"Someone" as in the film's director, Edgar Wright? Oh just a lollygagger who popped round the set now and then, what would he know about making the film?
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For real.
Antagonizing the brothers in Egypt, their (Israels) friend in Jordan and the nutcase who's using Sarin in Syria seems like a poor plan.
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I saw what you did there.
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explore the possibility that the myths of a small tribe in the middle east may have ceased to be relevant as anything other than a historical curiosity
Not as long as religious zealots believe in it. Prophecy is made, people believe in it, hence .. prophecy gets fulfilled. Religion is a whole lot more dangerous than you're giving it credit for. There's never been anything more destructive in human history.
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Hello Orwell. I agree. In the case of the 1967 war I've seen historians who would fully agree that the Israeli generals were fully aware there was no threat of Egyptian attack, but somehow in the end they would keep using the words preemptive strike even if they'd just agreed that was wrong. At the least they could say preventive strike. If you strike whenever it suits you you can always say it's preventive. In a way it always is right, but it is just an euphemism for wars of aggression. The only Israeli or
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Egypt committed an act of war against Israel. The historians you refer to may not be doing their job properly.
May 23rd 1967 [sixdaywar.co.uk]
Egypt closed the Straits of Tiran (Gulf of Aqaba ) to Israeli shipping, thereby cutting off Israel’s only supply route with Asia and stopping the flow of oil from its main supplier, Iran. By international law, this was an act of war.
There is plenty more at that site, you might want to wander around it.