Hands-On With Windows 8.1 Preview 505
adeelarshad82 writes "Microsoft launched the preview version of Windows 8.1 at the company's Build conference in San Francisco and early signs show that Microsoft heard the criticisms, and has responded with improvements. The new OS includes a number of changes starting with the return of the Start button and the ability to boot directly to the desktop. However, Microsoft hasn't given up on making the new-style tile and full-screen more usable for all users. If anything, the tile-based Start screen has gotten more flexible, with new smaller and larger tile options. Windows 8.1 also drastically improves built-in search, SkyDrive cloud syncing, mail and Microsoft Music."
Microsoft also released a preview of Visual Studio 2013 and .NET 4.5.1, and there's a program that will give developers early access to the PC version of the Kinect sensor. Other tidbits: Windows 8.1 will use a standard driver model for 3-D printers, and it's getting better support for both high-res displays and using multiple displays with different resolutions.
the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the phrase everyone has wanted to hear, including myself. Microsoft may have backpedaled, but that was the right thing to do.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
That's the phrase everyone has wanted to hear, including myself. Microsoft may have backpedaled, but that was the right thing to do.
What good is a start button without a start menu?
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Funny)
What good is a start button without a start menu?
Works great in my car.
So by analogy, it'll work great in a computer.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Funny)
That's not how car analogies work, and you know it.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
Now we're probably going to have to sit through hundreds of posts for "I've been using windows 8.1 for 10 years and it's just so awesome with the new start button, just what everyone wanted. MS is such a great company that listens to their customers."
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Interesting)
MS is such a great company that listens to their customers... after their market share erodes, after they miserably fail in mobile and tablet spaces, and after they face the prospect of another Vista-like iteration of an OS that business customers will skip altogether.
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Now we're probably going to have to sit through hundreds of posts for "I've been using windows 8.1 for 10 years and it's just so awesome with the new start button, just what everyone wanted. MS is such a great company that listens to their customers."
You know that spam where some idiot says his friend's mom makes $$$$ every month working from home? It's probably true. Judging from the comment sections under most Windows 8 articles, it seems Microsoft (or some social media ad agency) is paying stay at home moms to promote the product and counter any criticism.
MS shills are pretty much a known fact (Score:3)
Its pretty much a known fact that MS employs shills to hawk their products online. Only, they don't call it shilling, they call it Technology Evangelism [techrights.org].
Fascinating read.
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However M$ should have realised the 'desktop' and notebook market is becoming pretty much what is 10 to 15 years ago. The 'majority' of computer users, just are not using a desktop at anywhere near it's design power or flexability, they will be content on big screen TV shininess, mobile phone flashiness and of course tablet media and game consumption.
Those desktop users, now a technical minority in the computer market, still represent the same number of users that defined the bulk of the market 10 to 15
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Having watched a few people using older versions of Windows and Windows 8 I think it does actually make sense, it was just badly implemented. Allow me to explain.
Many people don't really use the start menu much it seems. They have all their apps on their desktop, a huge wall of icons. They know where everything is via spacial memory rather than looking at lists of text on a menu. Seems counter-intuitive to us geeks but actually this kind of emergent "it's a mess but I know where everything is" organization
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It's not really that.
1. The Start menu might not be used a lot but that's not the point. The point is that it's discoverable. It's easy to find something new, like a new desktop program that's been installed. The user can then make a shortcut if they want. It leaves the user feeling in control.
2. Metro and desktop are jarringly different. The primary golden rule of Shneiderman's 8 Golden Rules of user interface design is "strive for consistency". In the past Microsoft have done this, but now they've done th
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Any attempt to "bridge the gap between metro and desktop" on desktop mean downgrading desktop environment towards shitty tablet environment.
So yeah, it's an upgrade from win8, in the same sense that working cleaning the toilets in a nightclub with your tungue is an upgrade from cleaning the sewers with your tongue. Of course, windows 7 in that analogy is a nice clean office job.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Informative)
Except that they totally missed the point of what everyone wanted.
Yes, there is a start button there now. But all it does is bring up the start screen, the same as pressing the Windows key. The start menu, which is what most people really want back, is still missing from the OS.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Insightful)
Yes, there is a start button there now. But all it does is bring up the start screen, the same as pressing the Windows key. The start menu, which is what most people really want back, is still missing from the OS.
I disagree. Most people were just confused by the lack of a physical button to click on to do anything.
A MUCH smaller subset actually wanted the old start menu back. I know I don't. There are elements of the old start menu that I liked, but most of it was a bad idea. Start -> All Programs was a complete disaster -- lets put a hierarchy of everything installed on your computer in a small non-resizable popup menu. Sorry that was just awful. For anything you need the start MENU for, the start screen is a LOT better.
Pinned aps on the start menu? Use a toolbar if you want a popup menu for those on the taskbar.
The only real loss is the search box that many power users use as a quick launcher - the start screen works for this, and is better if you are actually doing any sort of real search. But a desktop widget would be more appropriate for the "quick launch task of things we already know about."
But this is a power user function / feature not something "most users" do. Personally I'm looking for good 3rd party options, that just address this small shortcoming, rather than try to recreate the disaster that the old start menu was.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Interesting)
That's funny. I kind of like that Start ->All Programs menu. There are a lot of programs that I don't use every day that I don't need anywhere near a first level.
I want them in that menu.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
A MUCH smaller subset actually wanted the old start menu back. I know I don't. There are elements of the old start menu that I liked, but most of it was a bad idea. Start -> All Programs was a complete disaster -- lets put a hierarchy of everything installed on your computer in a small non-resizable popup menu.
Most users don't use the heirarchal menu very often. They usually either type the first few characters to search, or use one of the recent programs listed. But if you're in one of the instances where you're trying to access a program that you don't use very often, and don't remember the exact name of it, the hierarchical menu is light years beyond the start screen.
For example, take a look at what my Windows 8 start screen looks like [imgur.com]. It's an absolute mess, and nearly unusable in my opinion. The Start8 menu that I installed is much easier, quicker, and far more intuitive to use. I suspect that many users feel the same way as I do.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
1) Now try typing a few letters of what you are searching for. Much better.
Hmmm...lessee. I want to reduce the size of this here video, to play it on my phone. What the heck was that app called, again? Maybe something like "transcoder"? (types) ... Hmmm..... Nope. Doesn't look right.
Types: <backspace><backspace> (&c) .... Ok, how about "video"? (types) ... Hmmm, nope, that's not it. I don't think so, anyway.
(Types: <backspace><backspace>...<backspace>) Okay, um, "resize"? (types) ...nope.
*clicks around in menu* .... Oh, yeah. Handbrake. Typing transcode did work, but I couldn't tell.
The search interface works really well.
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Purposely facetious.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Informative)
Start -> All Programs was a complete disaster -- lets put a hierarchy of everything installed on your computer in a small non-resizable popup menu. Sorry that was just awful. For anything you need the start MENU for, the start screen is a LOT better.
Certainly, instead of a tidy, hierarchical, collapsible interface that only takes up (maybe) a third of the screen, let's make it a mandatory full-screen, scrollable (and scrollable and scrollable) interface instead, with gigantic, cryptic, space-wasting, two-tone icons instead! Brilliant!
You're one of those people who prefer to keep all their filing in a nice big pile right on their desktop, aren't you? Sure, you have to reach around the pile every time you want to use the phone, or grab your stapler, but hey, all your papers are 'at your fingertips'! No more need to open those pesky filing cabinets, or flip through individual folders!
What I *especially* love about the start screen is how it pretty much makes my family wallpapers useless. On Windows 7, I put the shortcuts around the edges of the desktop, then I can see the wallpaper subject (and smile) every time I go back to the desktop. With Windows 8...well, I don't have many photos of my family where the important parts (faces) are pressed right against the top, bottom or either edge of the shot. Yes, I could put a photo widget in the start screen...then be constantly annoyed at the need to scroll past it to get to my shortcuts.
No, ClassicStart and Start8 have pretty much saved Microsoft's ass on this release. If I were them, I'd be asking for a reward or something...
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Certainly, instead of a tidy, hierarchical, collapsible interface that only takes up (maybe) a third of the screen, let's make it a mandatory full-screen, scrollable (and scrollable and scrollable) interface instead, with gigantic, cryptic, space-wasting, two-tone icons instead! Brilliant!
Can you outline a situation when it would be better not to use the entire screen for finding and starting an app? I understand fully why having multiple apps on the screen is a good thing, but when you want to start one why not immediately use the entire screen so you don't have to navigate through submenus?
Ever noticed how most users click the icons on their desktop to start applications? They know where they are by spacial memory or looking for icons, not by reading the labels. I know it annoys people who
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Can you outline a situation when it would be better not to use the entire screen for finding and starting an app? I understand fully why having multiple apps on the screen is a good thing, but when you want to start one why not immediately use the entire screen so you don't have to navigate through submenus?
Ever noticed how most users click the icons on their desktop to start applications? They know where they are by spacial memory or looking for icons, not by reading the labels. I know it annoys people who obsessively keep their desktop clear of icons and arrange their start menu meticulously like I do, but it seems to work quite well for a lot of people. The start screen is just an advanced version of that.
I *like* submenus. It lets me group my programs however I want, and any single group is accessible right from the top level (unlike the Win8 philosophy). I don't have to choose whether my computer will primarily be used for image/video, socializing, office work, gaming, development, etc. etc. and then try to arrange my program groups so that the top 30 or so programs fit onto the first page (really fun on a netbook). With the start menu, I have access to any and all of these capabilities in a maximum of
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
Start -> All Programs was a complete disaster -- lets put a hierarchy of everything installed on your computer in a small non-resizable popup menu.
To be fair, though, a LOT of that problem stems from companies making installers that seem to "helpfully" assume that you FIRST want to sort your applications by company name rather than, say, "Games", "Internet", "Graphics", "System", etc, and then the application or a company name under THAT. Did you just install four games, three graphics programs, and two system tools, each by different companies? Guess what? You've now got nine brand new top-level folders, each containing one program icon, one to three readmes, and maybe an uninstaller! Because that makes sense, right? Now keep going until you've got sixty or seventy top-level programs.
It wasn't so much that All Programs was a disaster, it was companies using it as secondary advertising space on your desktop.
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You know... you actually have a point, now that I think about it that way... But it's always been like that.
Back in Win 3 Program Manager days, I'd make groups for each type of application, and move the icons appropriately. Sometimes I'd do folders on the desktop in Win95, but I gave up on that entirely in Win98 days and you're totally right - it got crapped up really bad by WinXP days. Then they ruined All Programs even more in Vista onwards by fixing the size and not letting it breathe horizontally at all
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Insightful)
And when XP arrived almost every customer I had wanted the "Classic Start Menu" from windows 2000. People don't like to learn new things regardless of whether they are better or worse than what they had before.
This is broken on at least two levels.
I was there, and I don't recall any such push-back against the XP menu. There were a few comments about it looking a bit colorful, and feeling slower, but nothing like the reaction to 8's UI. (Of course compared to 98SE or ME, XP was like dawn after a dark night in terms of stability. People loved that.)
Secondly, and more importantly, the first rule of UIs is: don't change it unless it's badly broken.
It's true that most people don't like to learn new things, especially to do with computers. Guess what? Your stupid computer program isn't the most important thing in their lives—or even the fiftieth most important thing. They're not waiting with bated breath for the next "wonderful surprise" you're about to inflict on them. And: you can't change anyone besides yourself. People won't like change, no matter how hard you try to "fix" them. If you want to change the UI, you'd better provide strong, compelling, immediate reasons for that.
There's no evidence that (for anyone outside the executive suites in Microsoft Towers) Windows 8's way of locating and starting applications led to greater productivity and/or better employee morale. There's considerable evidence that the change has caused exactly the opposite.
(The UI mess is sad. Under the covers, 8 is a great improvement over 7. A tight OS.)
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Insightful)
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All it does is pull up the "start screen" The perfectly designed start menu from Win 7 is gone for good.
Microsoft: Fuck you
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Funny)
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Informative)
That's the phrase everyone has wanted to hear, including myself. Microsoft may have backpedaled, but that was the right thing to do.
This is so disingenuous that it qualifies as an outright lie.
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But they did not actually return the start button, though it does pop up something that looks like one if your mouse is in the right place. They absolutely do not return the start menu, which was what customers were really asking for.
This is essentially an insult in many ways. They're saying "we heard loud and clear that you wanted a .1 added to the product version, so here you go".
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
It'll be a real improvement (a 180) if there's something as simple as a checkbox that says "Suppress Metro interface".
I still don't think MSFT gets it. No one wants to see Metro, ever.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Informative)
I was actually waiting on 8.1 to see if I would stick with Windows 8 on a laptop I bought. I was hoping for the start menu and an option to suppress metro totally.
Since it looks like MSFT isn't going to let you do those things, I'll be formatting and going back to Windows 7
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Informative)
Why not just give windows 8.1 a try. While it doesn't suppress the metro screen completely I see no reason why you would have to use it now if you didn't want to. You can boot directly to the desktop which is basically windows 7. Plus you get all the new feature that windows 8 offers. Also the new Metro screen looks quite nice actually, though the metro apps don't seem to get any love with this update so blah.
If I were you and still rocking windows 8 I would check out 8.1 it looks pretty nice. I've been using window 8 as well for awhile and I must say outside of the metro stuff it's very nice. But that's personal preference so all the power to you.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
Those being?... Serious question.
Other than Metro, what does Win8 offer that Win7+updates doesn't, assuming you're not a movie company that wants even moar DRM locked into the operating system?
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Insightful)
The entirety of metro is just one item in that list. The rest is for everyone.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Interesting)
The file copying is much better now
I'm intrigued - how can anyone screw up something as fundamental as copying a file so badly that some 28 years later it can still be made "much better?"
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Funny)
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Informative)
Things that have improved:
-the dialog has an expanded mode which shows a real time copy speed graph
-the time estimates are based on total transfer history as opposed to instantanious speed
-conflicts have more/better/safer options (replace all, replace if newer, etc)
-copies to the same destination are grouped together even if you drag and drop a few different times
That's all from the top of my head.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
How the fuck is it "much better"? Try copying 100,000 files over a LAN from an XP box to a Win8 drive. The OS will shit itself and lock up entirely. Not even a blue screen, completely unresponsive DOA requiring pulling the plug. How about the "full line select" bullshit in file manager windows that makes it a huge pain in the ass to select files with a mouse?
All the review talks about is a bunch of stupid top-layer eye-candy bullshit that NO ONE CARES ABOUT. The goddamned OS should not be an "experience". That's what programs are for. The OS should shut the fuck up, do exactly what I tell it to do WHEN I tell it to do it, and generally stay the hell out of my way and out of my sight. Vista, 7, and 8 are abject failures that can't even correctly perform the minimal basic I/O tasks that are the exact reason we even HAVE operating systems rather than writing directly to the hardware.
Microsoft, you absolutely DON'T GET IT! You keep trying to pander to the idiot teenager mobile device crowd and people too stupid to even OWN a powerful computing device and you are pissing in the faces of everyone who actually uses your shitty OS to do REAL WORK and put food on their tables (mainly because the applications they use won't run on a REAL OS). Quit fucking around and DO YOUR GODDAMN JOBS OVER THERE. Fire the stupid assholes responsible for the abomination that is Win8 and put out an OS that at least does the bare minimum. Window dressing and eye candy is for children. Try aiming at the grownup market for a change!
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Interesting)
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So Microsoft used Windows 8 to make a beeline for tablet land. Can't blame them for that. What I can blame them for is that even for desktop users, i.e. those who don't need enterprise solutions for backup
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Funny)
What is wrong with you people? Microsoft has said that Metro is great, so you're being treasonous to suggest otherwise. Please report for reeducation and recertification.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Interesting)
Also, the left edge of the screen only shows running apps+desktop, not programs running on the desktop. So I can quickly switch to some retarded metro weather app but Microsoft in their infinite wisdom won't let me switch to Firefox or Eclipse running on the desktop. I must switch to the desktop and activate the app. It's just bad design.
About the only metro app I like is the Netflix app whose simplicity suits the service and which is vastly more attractive that the Android client. Most of the other apps are barely worth the time of day.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Funny)
He's jiggling it back and forth, muttering 'work you fucking stupid bastard' under his breath.
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Either that or he's had one too many user experiences.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Interesting)
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"For those with touchscreens", which I suspect is the smallest fraction of their customer base.
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Re:the return of the Start button (Score:4, Interesting)
I wouldn't mind metro if they'd let me put them in a fucking desktop window, then you could have separate interfaces (as god intended) and STILL leverage metro into phones/tablets.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Funny)
I just love this from TFA:
The tile-based Start screen (which is actually where that new Start button leads to), has gotten more flexible, with new smaller and larger tile options. And more than two modern apps can now share the new interface's screen. No longer are you restricted to a large window and one slender side panel, but two apps can each take of half the screen, or, depending on what the app's developer has allowed, any portion you choose
Exciting times we live in, when I can have 2 apps running at the same time, side by side on my desktop, and even resize them! C'mon, this is ground-breaking. Though I guess it's not entirely novel, since I could do this with EMACS (and presumably VI), but it's pretty cool to see in a GUI.
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Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
I still don't think MSFT gets it. No one wants to see Metro, ever.
Agreed, the interest does not seem too high. I've noticed how on Slashdot a lot of the discussion focuses on the problems surrounding the Start screen, but no one even mentions the Metro apps, which for Microsoft is actual big thing with Windows 8.
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No one wants to see Metro, ever.
I sure as heck want to see it on my Samsung x86 tablet. If I just want to check my email, open CNN headlines, play a game or watch a video Modern UI (formerly Metro) is perfect.
The desktop is perfect when I dock it and use a keyboard and mouse.
Re:the return of the Start button (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's a novel idea. How about have tablets default to Start Screen and Metro mode and desktops and notebooks defaulting to looking just like Windows 7 - i.e. Start Menu and desktop mode? And having a user option to override that default.
Then the 0.001% of users who exclusively use Metro apps on their tablet would be happy and the rest of us could just ignore it completely. The only reason they're pushing Metro down everyone's throat is so that people write and use Metro apps and the Microsoft store has something to do.
As it is they've got the boat anchor that is Metro dragging down Windows 8 because people who like Windows 7 hate it. It's dragging down Windows RT too because no compelling Metro apps means that Windows RT is screwed. It's dragging down the Windows Store because no one actually wants Metro.
They've got one very unpopular product - Metro and a number of very popular ones - most notably Windows itself. They've tried to force the people that like and use Windows to use Metro. And probably the reason for that is because if Metro apps take off then so will Windows Phone. Which right now is tanking too.
However instead of this strategy making Metro and Windows Phone more popular they've actually managed to make desktop Windows less popular. PC sales are down and they've made Windows run much less well on non touchscreen machines but the tablets people are buying instead are running Android and iOS, not Windows.
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Windows Sucks! (Score:5, Funny)
I bought a Windows Vista 5 years ago. The first one exploded to blew my hand off. The next one killed my dog. It wouldn't support my joystick from 1986. The wifi screwed up and sterilized my nuts.
Overall I was left with a really bad feeling about all Microsoft products, which obviously must all have similar defects. Anecdotes by unverifiable semi-anonymous internet posters prove that to be true.
Good Changes All Around (Score:5, Insightful)
The biggest thing is the fact that you can search all sections (Apps, Settings, Files) with a single search bar now. No more having to type, mouse-move, click, and then find the option I want! Plus, you can disable the "also search Bing" nonsense, thankfully.
I already run using 0 Metro apps, and live mostly in the Desktop space (truth be told, due to my Windows Key + type letters + hit 'enter' style of start menu usage, the start screen doesn't bother me). I'm glad I'll be able to boot straight to desktop, which will further distance myself from the Metro experience.
Re:Good Changes All Around (Score:5, Insightful)
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The Task Manager and File Transfer dialogues are much, much nicer, but they feel like things that can be hammered out in a week, not really even a bullet point to put on the back of your box. These kind of improvements are usually the stuff you see the blogs pick up on: "5 Cool Things You Might Have Missed!".
Car analogy: it's like getting really nice stick shift and "check engine" lights, when the engine itself hasn't changed from the same crud you were using.
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I dunno if I agree, necessarily. After all, we are talking about an operating system here. Dealing with files and what processes are running are supposed to be the bread-and-butter of an OS, to make our lives easier. They're not whiz-bang eye-catching features that marketing teams like to advertise, but boy do the improve the user experience.
Re:Good Changes All Around (Score:5, Insightful)
Plus, you can disable the "also search Bing" nonsense, thankfully.
Good, I was concerned this would be a gaping privacy hole. On the original Windows 8.1 post on the Windows Blog, I asked the Microsoft rep several times whether this would be optional and he said he didn't know yet and that an answer would be forthcoming. (Not usually an encouraging sign.) Having *local* searches automatically send a http request to Bing (and, presumably, the NSA) isn't something that I think most Windows users want.
Re:Good Changes All Around (Score:5, Informative)
Interestingly, apparently Canonical thinks it's something that most Ubuntu users want.
And most of us on Slashdot thought it was a bad idea there, as well.
No Aero then? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No Aero then? (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't be fooled (Score:5, Funny)
This release is actually just a re-branding of Windows 98 SE. If you previously purchased Windows 98 SE I strongly suggest you use that.
Grid layouts (Score:5, Insightful)
I really hate them. It is some modern UI koolaid everyone has been drinking apparently. The multsized grids are really hard for me to locate information. The only thing they seem to be good at is forcing me to scan over advertisements before I find what I want to get to, which might be the point, and the reason I hate them.
Microsoft considers desktop applications obsolete (Score:4, Informative)
It's pretty clear that Microsoft considers desktop applications - and the accompanying Win32 API - to be obsolete. Windows 8 effectively is telling developers "my way or the highway", but seriously, people generally dislike Metro applications. Could you imagine PhotoShop having to be a Metro application?
Microsoft Windows 8 and 8.1 should have been renamed Microsoft Window.
The Start screen, even in 8.1, is effectively keyboard-based for me. I run programs in 8 by hitting control-escape to bring up the Start screen, then start typing the name of the program I want. To search through the icons is just about impossible.
Speaking as someone... (Score:5, Interesting)
...who views Microsoft as a corporation with disgust due to all the immoral, illegal and downright reprehensible acts they have committed over the years to maintain their monopoly position, I'd just like to thank them for Windows 8.x, which will probably do more to damage them than the toothless DoJ ever could.
Why would anyone want Windows 8.1? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Why would anyone want Windows 8.1? (Score:5, Insightful)
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As someone who uses Windows at home, there are two main reasons:
1.) Games
2.) I use Linux at work, and it's nice to have my OS piss me off in different ways depending on where I am
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"Increasingly", true, and I do try to support cross-platform games and will do so even more in the future, even if I primarily or only play on Windows. But it's still a looong way off from being the norm unless you're willing to restrict your game choices a lot.
Wine would open up a lot of options, but I don't really feel like messing around with it when I can just run Windows and be done with things, especially considering that some of the games I play aren't even rated all that highly on the appdb.
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Outside of N. America, most people pirate Windows so yes, it's cheap. (just go to anywhere in Asia or Africa and try to find a computer running a legit copy of Windows)
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Gimp Has Single Window Interface (Score:3)
LibreOffice is just as good as Office for 90% of tasks. GIMP, on the other hand, is still a dystopian nightmare compared to Photoshop, for one main reason: separate windows for everything.
Except Gimp has had a single window mode since 2.8 introduces an optional single-window mode these are the release notes http://www.gimp.org/release-notes/gimp-2.8.html [gimp.org] here is ars reviewing it http://arstechnica.com/business/2012/05/hands-on-testing-the-gimp-28-and-its-new-single-window-interface/ [arstechnica.com] the latest version of Gimp was released on Just a week ago and is 2.8.6 http://www.gimp.org/ [gimp.org].
Although Multiple windows not that big a deal...was never a problem for me on the Mac version of photoshop.
Can you upgrade from preview to final later? (Score:2)
So how does it work? (Score:2)
Can anybody find anything useful on how exactly this 'driver model' works? Microsoft's page [microsoft.com] could hardly be less informative.
What's the intermediate format that software interacts with to define the print job before sending it off? What interface does the device-specific driver interact with, etc, etc?
Obviously, not having 3d printers be handled entirely by a specific application is a noble goal; but there are, even after years and years of polishing and development, some truly horrible things living in the
Standard Driver for 3D printers (Score:5, Interesting)
That's pretty cool. One of the things that needs to happen for 3D printing to become commonplace is to take it out of the realm of specialized software and just make it a mundane action one does with a computer.
Click, print. Heads up Apple, Microsoft is preparing to drink your milkshake on this one.
Still no Start Menu - Pass! (Score:5, Insightful)
Sorry, but until I'm able to completely deactivate the context-destroying, time and scren real-estate wasting Start Screen altogether, Windows 8 (sans 3rd party Start Menu add-ons), is nothing more than a toy.
Yes, I understand that menus are an creeping problem when adding functionality.
Yes, I understand that they're limited when implementing touch interfaces.
I DON'T GIVE A SHIT!
I don't use touch interfaces on anything larger than my phone, and even then, my current phone has a fallback to a physical keyboard. I have no use for them on a desktop or even a laptop. NONE.
I'm concerned about productivity FULL STOP. A menu system enables me to do more, faster. Especially with keyboard shortcuts (many of which were completely annihilated when they removed menus altogether in 8).
Managing systems remotely with the Win8/Server2012 interface is a complete pain in the balls, as the "hot corner" functionality for pulling up the various charms bars and other crap have a strong tendency to just not work, or work extremely sporadically in remote management situations. Yes yes. I could learn all the goofy new keyboard shortcuts. A menu system would still be more straightforward and functional.
Microsoft is acting like a kid who's been told to clean his room.
They've basically put it off as long as they can.
Now they're just going to kick some stuff under the bed and other general half-assery and hope it's sufficient.
It isn't. Period.
Re:Still no Start Menu - Pass! (Score:5, Informative)
If you're concerned about productivity "FULL STOP", why the fuck are you opening programs using a mouse anyhow? Win key -> type a few letters of a program name -> Enter, and you can launch anything on the system faster than you can find the item you want even in the Most Commonly Used section of the Start menu. If you have menu animations turned on (which I'm guessing you don't, but most people do) you can be launching a program before the menu finishes drawing itself.
This has existed since Vista. It took a step back in Win8, when "Apps" and "Settings" Start search results were segregated, but it was still usable there. On 8.1 they're integrated again. If you're still launching programs with the mouse and yet claiming you're only concerned about productivity and that's it, you're frankly a liar. You're just whining They Changed It And I Don't Like It like so many other people.
Alternatively, set keyboard shortcuts (possible since at least Windows 2000, still possible on Win8) for the programs you use most (for example, Ctrl+Alt+I to launch your favorite web browser, Alt+Shift+C to launch your development environment, etc. and whatever). That's faster still, once you memorize them, although it won't work on other peoples' computers.
Yes, let's discuss working with other people's computers, shall we?
You know what's installed on your computer. My parents (and some other family members), on the other hand, don't. Trying to provide the obligatory phone support for them with a Windows 8 interface was, shall we say, a wee bit frustrating on both sides of the conversation.
"No, Dad, just drag your finger onto the touchpad from the corner. Nothing? Maybe you were too fast, try again a bit slower...oh, you think you opened something by accident? *sigh* Okay, what does the screen in front of you look like now? Hmm, what color is the background? Okay, lets try that Alt-F4 thing again, but remember, hold down the alt key and only press the F4 key once this time...you did it? You're back at the screen with the boxes now? Yes, you can let the alt key go..." etc., etc., etc... Until I installed ClassicShell on their computer, that is, now they (and I) love it :o)
Good, bad, and ugly (Score:5, Interesting)
The good:
The bad:
The ugly:
Still don't want... (Score:5, Interesting)
Well, in my usual attempt to stay current despite my greying neckbeard, I was prepared to tryout this regardless of the hatestorm regarding the new UI. Hell, maybe I could work around that in exchange for the alleged increased performance?
Downloaded the "upgrade assistant" which helpfully informed me that my nicely-tuned Windows 7 PCs (both 32 and 64 bit) would require shitloads of work, (some hardware 'might not work' and several screenfuls of software would 'not function' or 'require an upgrade').
Oh yes, and all of this for the modest sum of Euros 250-plus...
Per PC.
So, no thanks...
(I keeping trying to "like" the latest versions of Linux too - Mint is OK- but am sticking with BSD for my severs...maybe I'm not hip enough, or maybe I've finally realised there's more to life than fucking around with stuff when what you have works fine.)
Start8 - saved my parents... (Score:2)
I bought them a copy of Start8 and showed them how to get to the desktop - now all is better.
who needs Windows 8.1? (Score:4, Informative)
You don't need Windows 8.1 to fix the problems in Windows 8.
What you need is three programs:
I had to get Windows 8 for work and there wasn't much choice. I struggled with it until I found those. I don't need Windows 8.1, Microsoft can go to hell.
Mail and music? (Score:3)
Seriously? Why on earth would anybody consider those an intrinsic part of the operating system? If I want to access mail from my computer, I either pull up an application that handles mail (for POP3) or a web browser. If I want to play or edit or do whatever with music, I install an application designed to do those things.
How about if my operating system just sticks to the job of system operations?
I'll wait for 8.11 (Score:5, Funny)
Lipstick on a Pig (Score:4, Interesting)
Unfortunately these are largely cosmetic changes and won't fix what many users (particularly those of us found on slashdot) actually have an issue with. There are a few concessions to regular users who need visual hints like a start button, however for the power user virtually everything wrong with Windows 8 is wrong with Windows 8.1. An OS designed for touch devices shoehorned onto everything in a vain attempt to make users familiar with it so they'll choose Microsoft for the phone and tablet purchases.
Not to mention they're introducing a search behaviour which sends terms out to the Internet, just like Canonical has done with Ubuntu. I'm surprised about the lack of outcry about the privacy implications.
Now that I've angered the Windows-8 fanbase I'll irritate everyone else - unfortunately in my estimation the only desktop alternative is KDE while still clunky it is superior to OSX (design predicated on a stupid user), Unity (OSX clone), Gnome (also predicated on a dumb user) while the remainder are missing modern features.
Re:Lipstick on a Pig (Score:5, Funny)
Now that I've angered the Windows-8 fanbase
I wouldn't worry about him.
Icon jungle (Score:4, Interesting)
Why announce it (Score:3)
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
Re:However (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:However (Score:4, Informative)
Ironically, launching Control Panel on Win8 is actually faster than on Win7 (by default). Right-click the Start button (yes it exists; it was just hidden by default) or hit Win+X, and select "Control Panel" from the menu that appears. Easy and straightforward.
My biggest gripe with Win8 is the Start search segregation. I don't want to need to use different keystrokes when searching for a "Setting" instead of an "App". Aside from the BS about which is which ("Disk Management" or "Create and format hard disk partitions" is under Settings, but if you type "diskmgmt.msc" it shows under Apps even though it's exactly the same thing), I just don't want to have to deal with switching result pools. This is fixed in 8.1, which is a big enough improvement to make me happy, personally.
Re:However (Score:4, Interesting)
Ironically, launching Control Panel on Win8 is actually faster than on Win7 (by default). Right-click the Start button (yes it exists; it was just hidden by default) or hit Win+X, and select "Control Panel" from the menu that appears. Easy and straightforward.
Straightforward?! The Win+X menu is a horrible hack and not discoverable at all.
What I see is happening here is that Win8 has just learned people to use various keyboard shortcuts more effectively because in the new GUI many things have been placed in awkward positions.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
If you have a network connection, you MUST connect your log-in with a Microsoft account. There is no option to avoid doing this short of unplugging your landline or refusing to connect to a wifi point during setup.
I can imagine the "net required" aspect is coming in Windows Red.