Canadian City Uses Drone To Chase Off Geese 196
LeadSongDog writes "The Ottawa Citizen reports on an enterprising private contractor who has been hired by a city government in Canada to drive geese off its island beaches using a small, remote-controlled drone. 'It’s proving amazingly effective, said Orléans Coun. Bob Monette. The place used to be haunted by as many as 140 geese, which can eat several pounds of grass in a day and poop out nearly as much in waste. “Now we’re down to anywhere from 15 to 20 on a daily basis,” Monette said. The weapon the city’s deployed is a “hexcopter,” a remote-controlled chopper with rotors that can hover, soar, circle and — most importantly — scoot along just above the ground, scaring the bejesus out of dozing geese. It’s operated by contractor Steve Wambolt, a former IT worker who launched his own business after one too many layoffs. “When he takes it out, they put their backs up straight and they’re watching,” Monette said. “When he starts it and it goes up off the ground, they sort of walk into a formation, and as soon as it starts moving, they all take off and they don’t come back until the next day.”'"
Unconstitutional Drone Strikes on Canindian Geese (Score:5, Funny)
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They are Canadian Geese so the Constitution doens't apply
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just pretend he said canadian charter or rights and freedoms
thank goodness its a private contractor or the government likely would have invested millions into research and invented some sort of stealthed beach mobile to do the task
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just pretend he said canadian charter or rights and freedoms
thank goodness its a private contractor or the government likely would have invested millions into research and invented some sort of stealthed beach mobile to do the task
For some reason, when I read this the first image that popped into my head was a Canuck with his hockey stick hiding inside a giant, camouflage beach ball...
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just pretend he said canadian charter or rights and freedoms
Which is part of the Canadian constitution...
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html [justice.gc.ca]
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Agreed we both know that a stealthed solution wouldn't be ideal but bear in mind I was suggesting the path i think our government would have taken. Not what i believed the most reasonable course of action is, those two things rarely line up
Why not a simple analog solution? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strikes on Canindian Gee (Score:5, Funny)
They are Canadian Geese so the Constitution doens't apply
Eh? They're loud, obnoxious, and leave shit everywhere. Clearly they're American. ;)
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strikes on Canindian Gee (Score:5, Informative)
While amusing in this case, this treaty would likely not apply.
The statute in the treaty makes it unlawful without a waiver to pursue, hunt, take, capture, kill or sell birds listed therein ("migratory birds"). This includes the Canadian Goose. Piloting a drone into the middle of a stationary flock of geese constitutes none of these things. If the drone operator actually followed the birds, then yes, that would be "pursuing", but simply scaring the birds by flying into the midst of them as they are eating and pooping and doing other bird things wouldn't break the treaty, as far as I can tell.
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but simply scaring the birds by flying into the midst of them as they are eating and pooping and doing other bird things wouldn't break the treaty, as far as I can tell.
It's considered harassing wildlife and is illegal almost everywhere as part of normal wildlife protection laws.
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Oh come on, thats totally a wild geese chase, they just try to hide the real purpose of those drones...
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:5, Insightful)
this isn't affecting the migration just dispersing the floc from a beach/park there is no shortage of available space on the river or bay for them to move on too, they just hang out there because people leave stuff for them to eat, if anything this is beneficial to the birds also to keep them a little further away from the public
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I don't know how many of the geese get up to Alaska, but huge sections of Canada become essentially overrun with Geese.
Managing where they go can be a huge problem and a nuisance.
I worked at a building once where the geese would nest in the medians in the parking lot. They'd routinely attack people going to and from their cars. I've seen huge sections of
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:4, Insightful)
These things are a menace. I lived in Colorado and they would routinely plant themselves into our apartment complex public space, making it unusable for long stretches of winter.
If *you* think it's unusable now, how do you think the Geese feel about an apartment complex taking over *their* public space?
If you were stupid enough to wander into the park area, a host of them would waddle up to you and attack, and they left a huge amount of green goose crap all over the place. If I had thought of using one of those little toy helicopters at the time to scare em off, I would have.
I think the problem with the drone plan is that just like how the Geese got used to humans in your apartment complex and now show no fear of them, they'll eventually get used to the drones unless the drones start attacking and killing them.
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These things are a menace. I lived in Colorado and they would routinely plant themselves into our apartment complex public space, making it unusable for long stretches of winter.
If *you* think it's unusable now, how do you think the Geese feel about an apartment complex taking over *their* public space?
If you were stupid enough to wander into the park area, a host of them would waddle up to you and attack, and they left a huge amount of green goose crap all over the place. If I had thought of using one of those little toy helicopters at the time to scare em off, I would have.
I think the problem with the drone plan is that just like how the Geese got used to humans in your apartment complex and now show no fear of them, they'll eventually get used to the drones unless the drones start attacking and killing them.
Actually, they probably won't. The reason for this is that the drone is using a standard bird of prey flight attack vector. This should also be fairly successful against seagulls and pigeons (although due to the lack of flocking of those two birds, others will quickly return to take the place of those who left).
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These things are a menace. I lived in Colorado and they would routinely plant themselves into our apartment complex public space, making it unusable for long stretches of winter.
If *you* think it's unusable now, how do you think the Geese feel about an apartment complex taking over *their* public space?
.
Actually the geese were not there before the apartment complex was built, building code in many areas requires a retaining pond for the down spout water to collect and naturally be absorbed into the ground. Geese love these ponds and will nest all around them.
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Birds are smarter than we give them credit for. I'm wondering how long it will take for the geese to bury the drone under a mound of goose crap.
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:4, Funny)
Considering that geese bury *everything* under a mound of goose crap...
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:5, Insightful)
You won't think Canada Geese are so much of a goddamned treasure when you live in an area where they stay year-round, grow to flocks of hundreds, poison every waterway in sight, and leave a carpet of goose-shit everywhere. They're a fucking nuisance in a LOT of places, and the Migratory Bird Treaty Act desperately needs to be amended to make it legal to kill the fucking things. They have WAY overpopulated in large portions of North America.
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poison every waterway in sight
That's an act of terror. These geese have been trained by terrorists, and should be shot.
Probably.
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That poop is part of a powerful, natural cycle of nutrient propagation inland. Kill the birds, kills the large animals, and you break this cycle and end up with Australia.
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:4, Insightful)
No the problem is that we humans have killed off all their natural predators and don't have the balls to man-up and replace them. We have the same problem with deer in the area. People have stopped hunting deer, we've killed off all the wolves (because we tend not to like the idea of them attacking our kids and pets and shit)--and so they overpopulated and start becoming a nuisance.
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****the problem is that we humans have killed off all their natural predators***
Stop right there my friend, that is the problem everything else stems from this problem, one caused by the aforementioned unimaginably stupid humans. See? we do agree!
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Yes, because we humans are not animals, and are not part of the natural ecosystem of earth. And we are responsible for every extinction and every problem that the earth has ever had or will ever have. So we humans should just all commit suicide so that beautiful Mother Earth can thrive without our poisonous presence. Since you are clearly her most noble guardian, how about you go first, my hero?
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http://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/animals/photos/13-animals-hunted-to-extinction/hunted-to-death [mnn.com]
http://www.huntercourse.com/blog/2011/08/10-animals-hunted-or-nearly-hunted-to-extinction/ [huntercourse.com]
Not to mention Bison, Bald Eagle, Salmon (destroyed habitat), many whale species.
Not all, there were some mass extinction events due to climate changes (ice age cycling etc), but we're the only species that can claim such a wide variety of eradicated other species. Don't forget all the deer and geese predators that have been
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Yes, because we humans are not animals, and are not part of the natural ecosystem of earth. And we are responsible for every extinction and every problem that the earth has ever had or will ever have. So we humans should just all commit suicide so that beautiful Mother Earth can thrive without our poisonous presence. Since you are clearly her most noble guardian, how about you go first, my hero?
Or, to put it in geek terms, this sysadmin job would be a hell of a lot easier if there were no users.
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:5, Interesting)
Do you have any idea how many millions of square miles in the US (much less Canada) are untouched by humans? Well over 90% of the US is undeveloped land. No, the geese aren't going to the "few locations untouched by humans", they're flocking to locations occupied by humans because humans chase away their predators and keep climate variations (especially during winter) to a minimum, to the point where many geese are no longer even bothering to migrate. Chasing them away from human habitations would do more to restore their natural patterns than to disrupt them.
Plus, geese are vicious bastards who'll attack and chase animals much much larger than themselves. And they poop like crazy.
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As regards their poop, it is not malicious, I believe that birds have no anal sphincter muscle. This makes sense when viewed from a biological perspective as a flying animal has zero need to store feces. Even less than a non-flying one.
The problem with the touched land is that humans will invariably (like other species) flock to (no pun intended) the prime land. The land with water, relatively more sheltered and temperate, for the region. Where there is game, maybe even including the innocent and evil g
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As regards their poop, it is not malicious
Says the person who has never slipped on Canadian goose shit.
If there also happens to be abundant although highly processed garbage food available,
Canadian geese are never found at the city dump. They can be mostly found in civilization pooping on manicured lawns, which they seem to love eating, especially if it has a water feature.
That said, seagulls and pigeons are the true winged rats.
--
BMO
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:4, Insightful)
Do you have any idea how many millions of square miles in the US (much less Canada) are untouched by humans? Well over 90% of the US is undeveloped land.
Those are two entirely different things. Untouched by humans would indicate that the land is in its natural state, and if you use that definition it is a lot closer to 0% than 90%. It may be undeveloped and unused, but the wetlands have been mostly destroyed, and the megafauna slaughtered. These both have a massive effect on the ecology, sometimes for hundreds or even thousands of miles around.
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:4, Interesting)
Perhaps if humans hadn't encroached on their natural habitat they wouldn't be such a nuisance.
I'm going to just call you a damned idiot. The reason why we have so many canadian geese now is because the government back in the 70's instituted programs to reduce hunting and protect them. It's the same reason why you find deer in suburban areas, where the areas haven't expanded, and the population in the wild has exploded so much that they're starving to death due to a lack of predators. A very fine example of over populations of deer in the US: Michigan, and Ohio.
Up here in Canadaland, we have an assload of wetland areas. There are three in my area where the geese stay all winter, they never used to. They stay because the provincial government got this brilliant idea to feed the damned things all winter long. Carpet of goose shit indeed, we don't use drones here, we use starter pistols and blanks in shotguns and rifles to scare them away.
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, we use starter pistols and blanks in shotguns and rifles to scare them away.
which would cost more the drone. plus more waste, and inefficiencies.
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which would cost more the drone. plus more waste, and inefficiencies.
Really? Can you explain how a $0.03/shot costs more than a $56k-140k drone.
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I'm just going to call you a baboso (I assume you like to start conversations with insults and am happy to oblige).
The reason the deer and geese have no natural predators is because you and the other humans have killed them off because you didn't want your offspring or pets or domesticated animals to be killed by them. The problem is that you did encroach on their environment, these wetland areas are not the same as a natural habitat, with predators and such being in the mix. The ignorance of humans to no
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That's fine. After all, your post still continues to make no sense. If it did, then you would know that--indeed in Canada wetland areas are the same as natural habitat. That there are plenty of predators in the mix, there aren't enough though to keep the population in check. And you're still ignorant enough to believe that neither deer nor geese have natural predators. I welcome you to take a trip to the "wilds of canada" and find out exactly what happens in that lovely circle of life.
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****That there are plenty of predators in the mix, there aren't enough though to keep the population in check. ***
hmm, not to be mean but, your sentence contains a logical flaw. Let me know if you need me to break it down for you.
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Another thing to keep in mind is that the geese being the birdbrains that they are, seem to prefer a predator free zone (your city) to the natural one. The solution clearly is to let loose the predators in the city, but I imagine that wouldn't go to well with the humans who would of course suddenly realize they aren't apex predators at all.
Re:Unconstitutional Drone Strike on Canadian Geese (Score:4, Informative)
The only place in Alaska that geese stay year-round is near Juneau, as far as I know. But in places where they do stay year-round, like further down the coast, they can be a real pain. Their year-round residency is because of human habitat modification, making open green lawns that are highly appealing to them. They should be migrating but, like hummingbirds, decide to stay all year because of the easy food.
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I can assure you Ottawa is not taking away habitat or nesting space from the geese... fuckers attack me every morning on my morning commute by bicycle as they've laid claim to the bike paths, and I pass several beaches (that are not open to the public for swimming) that are inundated with them.
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Try this - it will make your cycling a bit more strenuous, though:
buy a goose-predator-shaped kite (or 2 or 3 of different species for variety), tie it to your bike seat on a sping-loaded line, and pedal off. The kite starts to fly up and behind you; the faster you go, the higher the kite flies, and the earlier it gets seen by the geese ahead of you.
BAM, geese fly away before you reach them.
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Oddly, Alaskans actually respect the natural migration of Canadian Geese, and find the entire yearly event a treasure to protect. Shame on the Canadians!
Actually in many places, the geese have become non-migratory. (There are actually several different subspecies, some are prone to finding a comfy spot and just staying there 12 months a year). The resident goose population in the Vancouver area, for example, is huge, and discharging long guns in the heart of the city is probably not the wisest thing to do. Besides, from what I'm told, canada goose tastes horrible.
Valuable Antiaircraft Weapon (Score:3)
What the article doesn't mention is the Nazi fighter plane that Mr. Wambolt was using the geese to bring down.
I suddenly remembered my Charlemagne...
This isn't going to end well, you realize (Score:2)
Geese are pretty smart.
Geese are pretty big. They can take down a commercial airliner [wikipedia.org].
Hexacopters are small, fragile and expensive. They can't make more hexacopters by themselves.
I predict MORE geese poop in Canada.
Re:This isn't going to end well, you realize (Score:4, Insightful)
Which is kind of like predicting colder temperatures in winter.
Hell, I was in Myrtle Beach this year ... and there they were: Canadian Geese, honking, eating, and pooping, and then honking, eating and pooping some more for good measure. Because, well, that's what they do.
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The geese where I live usually just eat, then honk, then poop, then honk, then eat, then poop. Sometimes variations on a theme, but mostly pretty consistent.
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LOL ... well, before they can land and eat, they honk. Then they honk some more. Eating and pooping definitely happens, and I'm certain I've seen both happen at the same time. In between both there's more honking. Before they take off, they poop and honk some more. Then they go someplace else and do it all over again.
But eating, honking, pooping, and making even more geese seems to be the general theme.
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Somewhere they occasionally fit in "attacking some random person for not giving them breadcrumbs."
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Not really .. but they do make it up in volume. ;-)
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Geese ... can take down a commercial airliner.
Terrorists. I knew it.
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They're like those little rat sized dogs with big attitudes. It's all for show. If you stand up to a goose you'll win. If you run from them and let them peck at you then we get to laugh.
Birds hate helicopters (Score:2)
Not a drone (Score:2)
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In the RC circle they usually are seen as drones and some have been impacted by those drone laws that get passed. Remote unmanned craft, operating under it's own power, with a human controlling it.
The laws saying people can shoot down drones; they also mean these type of craft too.
"Drone" vs "R/C Plane"? (Score:5, Insightful)
.
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if the device has on board avionics to aid in control and navigation, predator drones are also remote controlled largely are they not?
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You're right, there is no real difference save for size.
A craft like that will have an onboard flight computer to help with attitude positioning, and possibly even GPS; and FPV camera modifications are relatively cheap/easy to setup.
Re:"Drone" vs "R/C Plane"? (Score:5, Informative)
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Well I google'd that for you because I was curious too.
http://www.uav-drone.net/hobby-drones.htm#.UhO-s5LVDL8 [uav-drone.net]
It seems like a functional definition is that a drone has either a mounted camera, or some means of operating outside of a line-of-sight controller (eg. simple AI autonomy, or a remote control that hooks into GPS or non-mounted cameras for control, etc.).
Re:"Drone" vs "R/C Plane"? (Score:4, Interesting)
this is a drone:
some means of operating outside of a line-of-sight controller (eg. simple AI autonomy, or a remote control that hooks into GPS or non-mounted cameras for control, etc.).
this is not:
has either a mounted camera
My R/C copter with a camera is not a drone.
When I automate it it will be a drone.
Flocking behavior of mice (Score:3)
Are there any Western records of mice that act like this?
http://englishrussia.com/2013/08/19/strange-creature-no-the-mouse-line/ [englishrussia.com]
Are we at peak drone? (Score:4, Insightful)
Is a model plane now a drone? What about a paper airplane? Is an RC car a "land drone"? If I have a Capsela model in the bathtub with me, did I create a "water drone"?
It's a tsunami of hyperbole.
Re:Are we at peak drone? (Score:5, Funny)
Now you're just exaggerating. ;-)
Re:Are we at peak drone? (Score:4, Insightful)
The goal is to make the word drone meaningless. So when the government starts using police and spy agency drones against citizens we won't consider it a big deal.
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+1 and the thread to you, good sir.
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Not really... It's not uncommon to see an RC aircraft referred to as a drone.
Generally they need to be unmanned, operate/fly under their own power, and require a human pilot. Once you get into the FAA legal ease there is a difference but mainly in pilot training.
Drone....not really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Is it just me, or are we starting to use "drone" for pretty much anything that doesn't have a pilot actually sitting in it today?
AFAIK, "drone" is really an autonomous vehicle that for at least SOME of its flight time, it's not directly under pilot control.
I mean, it sure SOUNDS a lot cooler to say they use a "drone" than "a big radio control plane".
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It's not an RC plane, it's a Hexcoptor.
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First they came for "hacker", and I said nothing...
They come back the next day (Score:3, Insightful)
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I'd love to hunt these things (they're so unafraid of humans now that you could whack them with a club).
That's a an odd definition of the word, 'hunt,' you have there.
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Whacking things with a club was probably one of the first forms of hunting that distinguished humans from other hunters.
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feel free to hunt away.
Ontario MNR [gov.on.ca]:
"Hunting is an effective way to manage goose populations and prevent conflicts. Regulations, seasons and municipal bylaws must be followed. You may hunt geese in the open season with a valid hunting licence for migratory birds. You can also encourage hunting on your property. "
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I do miss th
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I've heard that geese are pretty smart and will learn to avoid hunters or areas where they have been hunted. I think the lesson was "hunt early, and as far north as you can" because the birds you encounter will have seen fewer hunters and will be more inclined to land for feed and decoys.
After they have been shot at a few times if the setup looks like what they've experienced before they will not fly low enough to be shot at nor land.
There's also no telling the geese "coming back" are actually coming back
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Please link to a video! (Score:2)
Drone? Dog! (Score:2)
I used to live on a lake that had a permanent population of 60-80 Canda geese. Those bad boys were afraid of nothing and would hiss at you just for lookin' at 'em the wrong way. There was only one thing they couldn't tolerate: a dog. I'd see a bunch of 'em take off in a hurry for what looked like no good reason, then a minute later here'd come a dog, trotting along, minding his own business.
Screw R/C planes. The best and probably cheapest way to get rid of geese is to get a Jack Russell terrier and let it
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Dog, yes. Generally border collies are used around here. These things are far smarter, last longer than any drone, and are self-replicating. The parents will even train the pups.
Get that fucking nature out of here (Score:2)
Decent people shouldn't have to put up with that natural world shit.
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It's more a problem of the geese could wind up colliding with an airplane during takeoff/landing and causing a crash. (Killing the goose, obviously, as well as injuring/killing people.) The geese, of course, don't know this. They just see "patch of grass for us to eat on and poop on." By keeping the geese away, they are actually PROTECTING the geese (notice they aren't shooting or poisoning them) as well as airplane passengers/crew.
Unemployed Border Collies (Score:3)
even the dogs are displace by technology
http://www.snegeese.com/ [snegeese.com]
http://hardeybordercollies.com/id2.html [hardeybordercollies.com]
just a few
This will fail. (Score:4, Insightful)
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You've never been to any boardwalk that has seagulls and lots of children, have you? Kids will always run at the seagulls, but a lot of the time the gulls wont do more than just hop away because they know theres no real danger.
It sounds like you havent really seen many gees, either-- they can become so unafraid of humans that theyll charge bicycles and cars, knowing that the vehicle will inevitably give way before them.
STOP USING DRONE (Score:2)
and WEAPON interchangeably.
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STOP SHOUTING.
Actually, that's one of things it's worth shouting about. Some weapons are drones, but not all drones are weapons. Yet we have people shouting OMFG EVIL DRONES! every time we use one instead of risking a chopper load of guys with a 1000-mile supply chain to wack a crazy murdering jihaddist running an underwear bomb shop in the middle of the Yemeni desert. And then when a local PD uses one instead of a human-scale helicopter (to avoid spending hundreds of dollars an hour to keep on in the air) while doing S
Major thread (Score:2)
Now I'm the terrorists to use teams of drones to herd geese into oncoming aircraft.
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I suppose I could have previewed that. Note to self: don't post on slashdot while buying a house.
Misattribution to OP (Score:2)
What about hawks? (Score:2)
I've seen domesticated hawks used to scare fowl off of runways which seems to have more "staying power".
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They tried that in New York City.
The hawk grabbed a small dog and tried to fly off with it. The lady who was walking the dog got into a tug of war with the hawk and started screaming. The hawk finally let go.
It got a lot of bad publicity in the newspapers. They cancelled the program.
I thought it was a basically good idea and was worth a try, but I don't own a small dog.
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No, nor do I know what it would be relevant. Which is why my post is stated in the form of a QUESTION.
"Drone?" (Score:2)
Dogs everywhere say "wtf" (Score:2)
This a job a dog would do better and cheaper. Just saying.
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Well, Canada has a larger land area than the US, with huge tracts of it being essentially wilderness.
There is literally no shortage of places they could go to once they've been spooked from these places.
Think Wisconsin or Maine, but much larger. Miles and miles or forests, wetlands, and whatever else might keep a goose happy.
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Geese don't have unbounded rights to space or population growth, either. And when there's any contention, whatever benefits humans most is the right outcome.
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Canada is big.
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I can see it now, kamikaze geese. They take out the drones like they take out an airliner.