Elon Musk's New Hologram Project Invites 'Iron Man' Comparisons 135
Nerval's Lobster writes "In the 'Iron Man' trilogy, billionaire inventor Tony Stark uses a gesture-controlled hologram to draft new designs of the titular armor, sending virtual parts flying around his lab with the flick of a wrist. Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk—who is often compared to Stark by the tech press—is apparently creating the real-life equivalent of that fictional hologram system. 'We figured out how to design rocket parts just w hand movements through the air (seriously),' he Tweeted August 23. 'Now need a high frame rate holograph generator.' In a follow-up Tweet, he added: 'Will post video next week of designing a rocket part with hand gestures & then immediately printing it in titanium.' But Musk has no plans to actually make an Iron Man-inspired suit of armor. 'I am not going to make an IM suit,' he wrote on Twitter, 'however design by hand-manipulated hologram is actually useful.'"
Can't wait to enroll in Musk University (Score:1, Insightful)
Elon is the new Trump.
Re:Can't wait to enroll in Musk University (Score:4, Insightful)
he's way cooler than trump
Re:Can't wait to enroll in Musk University (Score:5, Funny)
he's way cooler than trump
You might even say he trumps Trump.
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Re:Can't wait to enroll in Musk University (Score:4, Insightful)
Elon is the new Trump.
Except Elon is brilliant as opposed to a blowhard?
Re:Can't wait to enroll in Musk University (Score:4, Informative)
Still brilliant - but (like many brilliant people) he can be quite the blowhard too.
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Sounds more like Jobs than Trump to me.
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Well, he seems to have a bit of Jobs salesman in him too.
http://www.leancrew.com/all-this/2013/08/hyperloop/ [leancrew.com]
"How, I wondered, is Musk going to solve the thermal expansion problem?
The answer turned out to be simple: he didn’t. There’s some hand waving and, possibly, a complete misunderstanding of how thermal expansion acts, but no actual solution."
Re:Expansion Joints (Score:4, Interesting)
> "How, I wondered, is Musk going to solve the thermal expansion problem?
I used to walk under a solution every day going to work, where work was the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center. They needed a way to test the optics of the Chandra X-Ray Telescope on the ground, so they built a 1000 foot (300 meter) vacuum pipe that connected an X-Ray source at one end to a vacuum chamber with the optics at the other. The reason for the long distance was to have the source at "infinity" optically, and it needed to be vacuum so air would not absorb or scatter the X-Rays.
This pipe ran outdoors, because it was longer than the building, and they wanted the X-Ray source away from other people working there. Naturally it had to deal with expansion due to heat and cold. It was handled with a metal bellows expansion joint (http://www.wahlcometroflex.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/metalrolledopt.jpg) between pipe sections, and the pipes themselves were on sliding support brackets on the concrete columns that held them up. So they can expand and contract as needed, and the bellows takes up the motion.
For the Hyperloop application, you would use finger expansion joints (http://www.ilwontec.com/eng/wp-content/uploads/contents/big_finger_expansion_joint.gif) inside the bellows. These are used on bridges for the same thermal expansion reason between the piers and suspended part of the roadway. Instead of being flat like in the picture, they would be circular, following the shape of the main pipe.
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Not sure that either of those would work for a car going over it on an air cushion at 700 mph.
I would imagine a smooth tube would be a requirement. A minor change in air pressure from one of the ridges and all of a sudden the car is hitting walls at 700 mph.
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A 3" gap might cause a car traveling at 700mph to have ... a few ... issues.
Especially if anything gets through that gap from the outside. Or changes the airflow around the car.
I don't think having something like that which needs to be checked & cleared regularly would be a solution to the problem.
Regardless, it's an example of the lack of engineering detail that was put into the paper.
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One that can compress from 3" in the summer to 0" in the winter? Times thousands of gaps?
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Brilliant my ass. He's just a well-schooled salesman who paints himself the next Steve Jobs. Technologically inept to know 99% of the crap he's shoveling is the equivalent of The Jetsons and 1% smart enough to hire talent to tell him that 99% is bull shit, but that 1% can be feasible.
My old boss, Steven P. Jobs, would never pull the asinine stunts this guy continues to rack up. You under sell and over deliver. This guy pictures himself Kurzweill as a visionary salesman. He's attempting to create his own RDF
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Instead, he's PT Barnum
Are you suggesting PT Barnum wasn't brilliant?
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Brilliant my ass. He's just a well-schooled salesman who paints himself the next Steve Jobs. Technologically inept to know 99% of the crap he's shoveling is the equivalent of The Jetsons and 1% smart enough to hire talent to tell him that 99% is bull shit, but that 1% can be feasible.
He's no Steve Jobs, true. That aside, there are millions of well-schooled salesmen, and at least thousands of them smart enough to know they need to hire talented people. But most of them you've never heard of, and will never hear of, unlike Elon Musk. So there's more to it than just that...
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He's not schrewd enough to realize his tepid steps into the waters of business are just temporary, unless he can make a firm footing for those charging stations nation-wide.
Unlike everyone else who looks at the problem and sees that this is a big issue. But this guy must be stupid. After all, what did *he* ever do while you were making smart slashdot posts? We all know what effort goes into a good snide remark on slashdot!
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The Tesla is a hot commodity, for now.
I bet the same has been said about numerous luxury car manufacturers, and the latest numbers [allthingsd.com] say he's outselling them. Those other manufacturers have managed to stick around for a while, what makes you think Tesla's on the way out?
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I'm sure that someone who manages to run not one, but two game-changing companies while already having succeeded with another one is both brilliant and a blowhard. However, I think that linking to a site that posts drivel like this (you have to read it to believe it....) http://boycotttesla.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/tesla-and-fisker-use-vaginal-orifice-to-trick-rich-guys-into-buying-cars/ [wordpress.com] and to gawker, which is the equivalent of a tabloid for tech, makes you sound like someone who believes that Aliens are r
Musk should send that guy a thank you gift. (Score:2)
Like a fruit basket or something.
He's like a crazy ass poster child for detractors of Musk's every move.
You can't buy that with money.
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Re:Can't wait to enroll in Musk University (Score:5, Funny)
More like Cave Johnson.
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Well, if life gives you lemons...
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When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!
- Cave Johnson
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Comparing him to trump should be considered an insult.
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Comparing him to trump should be considered an insult.
Don't worry, I'm sure Trump has been called much worse.
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Actually he seems more like the new Steve Jobs. He understands design and makes it happen.
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What the hell did Musk do to deserve that comment?
Bah! (Score:5, Funny)
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Where no man has gone before... (Score:2)
Obligatory Penny Arcade reference. [penny-arcade.com]
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Get Some Sleep, Elon (Score:1)
I'm not sure what this guy is on but *that's* what he should be marketing and selling to the masses.
He seems to be on the 'visionary' trail. Not sure if it's a lot of hype or he's actually going to change the world in any significant way. Only time will tell.
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I think the OP was commenting on what the masses want/need, not what Musk needs to do to get rich.
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I think the OP was commenting on what the masses want/need, not what Musk needs to do to get rich.
Do you think he really cares? He wants to do some cool stuff like build electric automobiles, and open a franchise on Mars so he can retire there in style. While he is at it, he wouldn't mind a few thousand other people joining him there too, mainly so he doesn't have to do all of the heavy lifting once he arrives on the red planet.
It sounds like a few people posting here on Slashdot wouldn't mind packing his bags to get rid of him too.
Jurassic Park (Score:3)
Those who do not study the past (Score:3, Insightful)
It won't work. When you hold your hand out from your body for an extended period of time, your arm gets tired and begins to droop. This is known as "gorilla arm syndrome" and is used as a textbook example of what not to do when designing user interfaces.
However, it looks so cool, ignoring the fact that the first priority of any user interface is usability. Well, any user interface that you use for any length of time. It's sad that movies so pervade the modern consciousness that people can't see outside their blinders.
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Re:Those who do not study the past (Score:5, Insightful)
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Hold my hand out like barbers, and electricians, and mechanics, and cooks, and baseball players, and housewives, and bricklayers, and makeup artists, and painters, and a myriad of other professions have been doing throughout all of recorded history? It's obviously possible to use your arms all day long, so clearly the UI designers are not designing touchscreen/gesture interfaces properly.
Agreed that the Gorilla Arm syndrome is being misstated regarding Human Factors.
not the same (Score:3)
In all those cases, your arms are not constantly out in front of you. Much of the time your arms are hanging down, or resting on something else. When they're not, they're often tucked in closer to the body which makes them easier to hold up.
The simplest solution to a 3D holographic interface is to plant your elbows on a surface to support the weight of your arm, and then move mostly your fingers with some hand movement.
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Those jobs involve a lot of moving the arms around rather than holding them out in front of you. If the UI could be designed so that the hands were not just for pointing, but you actually had to pick things up, manipulate tools and so forth it might work. In that sense Tony Stark's system isn't too bad. The Minority Report UI was terrible though.
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It won't work. When you hold your hand out from your body for an extended period of time, your arm gets tired and begins to droop. This is known as "gorilla arm syndrome" and is used as a textbook example of what not to do when designing user interfaces.
Ballroom dancer here (yea, I know, used it to get some exercise and meet people outside a computer). By definition when dancing your hands are held up... and you can do it all day. It is perhaps hard in the very beginning, but you learn very quickly.
By the same logic, touch screens are a fail because my grandmother has difficulty bringing up the Android keyboard as she is not used to touch interfaces.
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By the same logic, touch screens are a fail because my grandmother has difficulty bringing up the Android keyboard as she is not used to touch interfaces.
Yes. Touch screens are a lousy alternative to a real user interface.
I feel an rant coming on... (Score:2)
Re:Those who do not study the past (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't understand why "gorilla arm" has become such an issue with touchscreens when teachers have been using chalkboards/markerboards for decades.
Moreover, I can see exactly where Mr. Musk is coming from. The new generation of 3d drafting programs is moving away from the monotonous "line, define length + angle, new line, define length + angle ad nauseam" into a more dynamic "stretch + mold"-type UI. The one that I've worked with is called SpaceClaim. The most common comment I've heard is "it's like shaping play-doh on a computer screen." The second-most common comment I've heard is "it would work so much better if I could just grab it instead of using annoying, ambiguous mouse clicks."
The Stark-style hologram thing really is the intuitive answer to people's issues with the new drafting paradigm. With Mr. Musk being at the forefront of modern engineering, I'm sure he's seen those issues, and I applaud him for taking the steps to solve them. If "gorilla arm" happens as a result, then maybe we as engineers should stop being pussies and get some stronger arms.
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"I don't understand why "gorilla arm" has become such an issue with touchscreens when teachers have been using chalkboards/markerboards for decades."
It's because most Tech people are 50 pound weaklings that whine horribly if they have to carry a 15 or 17" laptop... OMG! it's sooo heavy... Must stop to rest... Anyone seen my inhaler?
Re:Those who do not study the past (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't understand why "gorilla arm" has become such an issue with touchscreens when teachers have been using chalkboards/markerboards for decades.
Speaking as someone who had to write on a whiteboard for several hours a day (I was a Teaching Assistant during grad school and had to regularly handle lectures, labs, and other sessions with students for several years), I feel as if you've neglected to consider the obvious fact that no one uses a whiteboard from arm's length, simply because it would lead to gorilla arm. In the end, I do agree with your premise that this is a direction we should be going. Even so, I'm still gonna talk about whiteboards and why your comparison is wrong. :P
So, when was the last time you saw anyone stand with their arm fully extended and write on a whiteboard? No one does that, or if they do, they stop after a few minutes because it's simply untenable. The way people write on whiteboards is by standing close to them and then bending their elbows so that their upper arm rests against the side of their body and their forearm is extended towards the board. If someone needs to write something to the side or down low, most of the time you'll see them reposition their entire body rather than extend their arm, and if they need to write above, they'll still position themselves so that their shoulder carries the weight.
Doing it that way solves the two major concerns with vertical surfaces: stamina and control. It allows the weight of the arm to be carried by the shoulder, rather than by the upper arm, making it a position that someone can work from for hours at a time. Second, it reduces the portion of the arm that is extended away from the body, thus minimizing the amount of undesirable wobble generated by your arm. Basically, it allows you to work for extended periods of time with a great deal of finesse. That's why people are able to use chalkboards and whiteboards for hours at a time while still remaining legible (we'll ignore that professor everyone had whose writing was inscrutable).
Unfortunately, if you're manipulating virtual objects in a three-dimensional space using your arms, you have nothing on which to support your arms, and, unlike a whiteboard, you can't rely on being able to put your arms at your side for support. Whether you're fit or fat, if you're having to hold your arms out in front of you without support for more than a few minutes, you won't be able to maintain the sort of fine control necessary to make careful adjustments for more than a few minutes. For instance, if you're having to grip a 3D object and stretch it into a shape you want without being able to release it, there's a clock running for how long you have before you arms start to wobble and create undesirable motion. Similarly, having someone control a virtual race car by turning a virtual steering wheel that's floating in a three-dimensional space would also be a bad idea, since most folks would only be able to go a few laps around the course before their arms would give.
That said, if you're making Tony Stark style motions where you're grabbing, manipulating, letting go, and then resting your arms in between, it'll work just fine. Same for Minority Report style stuff, since the interface simply doesn't rely on having your arms outstretched for extended periods of time. So, basically, I think you're spot-on correct that this needs to happen. Where I disagree is that I believe gorilla arms are still a problem that needs to be considered, but they're a design issue that can be designed around, rather than being a deal-breaker. Developers just need to consider the nature of the interactions that they're asking their users to make with the program, and ensure that none of them involve maintaining arm positions that can't be held for long.
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You've said what I was thinking when I read the quoted line. I think it is what Antipater was thinking too, so I figure the bit about stronger arms was in jest.
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Seriously? Is it so difficult to imagine a device where you sit down, rest your elbows on a flat surface, then manipulate the hologram in front of you?
It would be like using a keyboard, except with a hologram where the keyboard is.
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You're absolutely correct, and that's a really good point.
I actually did consider something like that (after all, that's how most people I see use the Wiimote if they aren't required to do full motions), but then I completely forgot to address it in my conclusion. But while it is a viable possibility, it does come with some drawbacks as a result of introducing more obstructions. For instance, it limits your range of motion, since you don't want to be hitting the things around you; it forces you to slow down
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If I just held my hand out for an extended period I could see that effect. However, when I work I am not always having my hands on the mouse or keyboard. They move on off, they rest. What I would envision using this technology is people using gestures to "draw", "move", "shape" then rest as they look at the change. Sculpture artists certain have the arms/hands extended for long periods working art, painters also come to mind as people who use gestures to perform their craft and I don't sense they are ef
Re:Those who do not study the past (Score:4)
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If you want to fault this, you would probably do much better questioning the ability of a user to create refined designs on the level of rocket science with just his hands floating in mid air. There's nothing to press against, nothing to provide feedback. That would require very intricate control indeed.
Right, if you had never done any drafting (by which I mean even just one class in autocad, good old-fashioned drafting, or both) then you might reasonably think that this would be a problem. But since you can draw shapes and then re-dimension them afterwards, or you can draw shapes constrained to dimensions, in practice this isn't really a limitation. It's just another issue which has to be taken into account when designing the interface. Perhaps arm motion will handle large-scale motion and finger motion w
Re: Those who do not study the past (Score:2)
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the big thing you are missing is that drafting is a hard line drawing, meticulously constructed with rulers, parallel guides, circle templates, triangles, and a mess of other guides that help control your lines.
I can see the similarity between a line on a computer screen which is referenced from a base point and drawn to a constraint, and a physical line on a piece of paper, but that does not make them the same thing, and suggesting that it is does suggests that you have no idea what in the hell you are talking about. If you are still treating the computer as nothing more than a cleverer way to do the same things you did on paper, then you've missed the best part of the computer; it lets us do new things as well a
Re:Those who do not study the past (Score:5, Insightful)
It won't work. When you hold your hand out from your body for an extended period of time, your arm gets tired and begins to droop. This is known as "gorilla arm syndrome" and is used as a textbook example of what not to do when designing user interfaces.
However, it looks so cool, ignoring the fact that the first priority of any user interface is usability. Well, any user interface that you use for any length of time. It's sad that movies so pervade the modern consciousness that people can't see outside their blinders.
You could always put your arms down for a break. You know, like glass blowers, potters, or pretty much anyone who builds things with their hands already does and have done pretty much as long as creatures had arms.
So, as you say, those who do not study the past ...
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Why is "gorilla arm" only a thing when it pertains to computers? Why can literally large chunks of the human population already do these kind of things, but we apparently can't?
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You're missing the point... (Score:2)
It won't work. When you hold your hand out from your body for an extended period of time, your arm gets tired and begins to droop. This is known as "gorilla arm syndrome" and is used as a textbook example of what not to do when designing user interfaces.
Every single input device does not have to be universal or suitable for every single task - which is why we use a mouse AND a keyboard.
Don't think of it as a user interface. Think of it as a virtual 3D sculpting tool.
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I'll help you out a bit.
Learn to move your arms! It's understandable that people who don't know how to hold their arms up would think that this would be a problem. Learn to separate the force to counteract gravity from the force for skeletal movement by learning UP through juggling. Learn to let your elbows hang. Let your hand initiate the movement and not your elbow or shoulder. Scapulae control translation, learn range of mo
So, is he creating it? (Score:5, Interesting)
Or positing it? After the vacuum tube BS stories, I refuse to read another Elon Musk-slobbering fest article.
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They crazy homeless guy on the street corner outside the office is pushing boundaries, dreaming, and doing things. The only difference is he doesnt have 1.2 billion and a marketing arm to sensationalize everything he says or talks about.
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Interestingly enough, Musk has that money because he managed to actually push boundaries, rather than just talk about them. When was the last time you did something that damn near everyone in the world said wasn't possible?
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So musk started out as a poor poverty level kid and dug his way to billionaire?
Oh wait. Mommy and Daddy had money, so he had money to make money with, Makes a HUGE difference.
And yes I push boundaries, I have 4 patents and have had 3 products on shelves that I designed. Today I program smart buildings, so I'm doing a LOT more than you are.
It still does not negate the fact that he is rich as hell and started life with a lot more money in his hands to further his self marketing.
Re:So, is he creating it? (Score:5, Insightful)
If that is your attitude then you are much poorer than you can ever imagine.
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He's also one letter away from being Melon Musk, but I fail to see what either of those have to do with anything...
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Musk really blew it with his Hyperloop proposal (severely flawed design and unworkable engineering) and now this nonsense. He's starting to believe the hype and BS about himself and you should never do that.
It won't be long before press starts mocking him as a result of all this.
Another fake story? (Score:1)
Given the one about the driverless cars I'm assuming every story Slashdot posts is a not particularly funny fake.
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They probably said that about the ENIAC, too.
Re: Elon Musk... (Score:2)
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Sure he's not building an IM suit (Score:2)
Just wait until he's kidnapped by terrorists and forced to build rockets for them.
Reading comprehension fail ... (Score:3)
This has been posted all over the place, and it always talks about the Iron Man displays.
Nowhere does Musk say that. He says he will design a rocket nozzle with his hands and print it with a 3D printer.
You can do that today with some software and a Kinect or other motion tracker.
Nowhere does he talk about 3D displays hanging in space. Gesture controlled solid modeler and 3D printer. That's it.
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Nowhere does Musk say that. He says he will design a rocket nozzle with his hands and print it with a 3D printer.
So, what happened to the electric jet that Tony Stark was supposed to help Elon with?
You may not have noticed but... (Score:2)
Tony Stark is a bit of a self-obsessed jerk. That's what happened.
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This misattribution has always irked me: he won't _design_ anything. The engineers he hired will design something. All too often you see on the resumes of managers that they "designed" or "launched" or "created" something when they quite obviously didn't do any of that. They hire and manage teams. The best of them are able to provide input to the process. But they don't actually do any of it by themselves, and they should be more careful with attribution.
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Funny thing, Elon Musk has several patents to his name. Look them up in the USPTO database if you don't believe me. I thought you had to actually design something in order to be credited with a patent. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Are you really sure he wasn't involved in the actual design part of the engineering here?
Yes, he also hires other engineers. His companies are far too big for him to do that all by himself. I'll also admit that even skilled engineers who end up getting "kicked upstairs" to become m
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by rehashing projects that others have worked on for decades.
So what? Most inventions are just a novel mix/rehash of previous work that together works better than prior art. Electric cars have been around for a hundred years, but a practical electric car that compares favorably to existing internal combustion engine cars is novel, even if it does require a six figure salary to buy one. Rockets have been around in some form for centuries, but the falcon 9 is one of the most efficient (in terms of cost per kg) rockets ever built, and he's still working on making it
I bet 1M$... (Score:1)
... That it will have actually nothing to do with real holograms... You know, the one with wavefront interference in a 3D gratting...
Do not want. (Score:5, Insightful)
You can see this yourself if you want to do a little accuracy experiment. Take your mouse and move it a pixel. Now, take your hand, hold it in the air, and move your hand that same amount without the help of friction on the table or the mouse to rest your hand on. Even if LeapMotion and other 3d space tracking systems were that accurate, it's not an optimal setup for actually doing work, due to strain and other issues. Now, I don't often need single pixel-accuracy, but 4-5 pixel accuracy is needed more often than you think.
Elon Musk sits in a "end item" meeting where the final design is 3d modeled and displayed on a screen, and pictorial representation of that model is manipulated using leap motion. Great. But actual engineering design work done this way? He's dreaming. Or, he's just talking about using Leap Motion et al tied to a CAD program, in which case... Who cares? He's not the first, and he's certainly not a visionary on the subject.
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+1, Should have been pointed out earlier. This point is more important than the dangers of gorilla arm syndrome, or the technical feasibility of it, or the capability/likelihood of Elon Musk to follow-through with it.
Barring a radical new piece of software with crazy amounts of automation, the utility of such a thing would be limited to design reviews. Don't get me wrong, if impressing the customer with something like this helped sell products, it would totally be worth it, but call me a skeptic when it c
Two important questions (Score:1)
1. Will it require anything to project the image onto? Even if it's just water vapor streaming through the air.
2. Will it be visible from any angle, or will it center itself on one person's point of view?
Not a hologram (Score:5, Informative)
No haptic feedback? (Score:1)
Read Brett Victor's A Brief Rant on the Future of Interactive Design [worrydream.com] if you want to understand why haptic feedback designs are superior.
Armor (Score:2)
Fine, well if Musk's not going to bother making the IM Armor, I'll make my own! With embedded blackjack and holographic hookers! You know what... forget the suit!
Will this use glasses, mist, or a screen? (Score:2)
.
needs more Hank Scorpio (Score:2)
Remember nerdboys, he's not the one with the vision statement of "don't be evil". So that's always an option. Heck, he grew Paypal into the evil shoggoth that it is today.