Redesigned Seats Let Airlines Squeeze In More Passengers 466
Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "AP reports that U.S. airlines are taking out old, bulky seats in favor of so-called slimline models that take up less space from front to back, allowing for five or six more seats on each plane. This gives airlines two of their favorite things: more paying passengers, and a smaller fuel bill (the seats are slightly lighter). Whether the new seats are really closer together depends on how you measure. By the usual measure, called 'pitch,' the new ones are generally an inch closer together from front to back as measured at the armrest. The seats Southwest has put on nearly its entire fleet are 31 inches apart, about an inch less than before, allowing them to to add an extra row of six seats to each plane. International passengers are feeling crowded, too. As recently as 2010, most airlines buying Boeing's big 777 opted for nine seats across. Now it's 10 across on 70 percent of newly-built 777s, Boeing says. American's newest 777s are set up 10-across in coach, with slightly narrower seats than on its older 777s. Airlines say you won't notice. And the new seats are designed to minimize this problem. Airplane seats from 30 years ago looked like your grandmother's BarcaLounger, says Jami Counter, senior director at SeatGuru.com, which tracks airline seats and amenities. 'All that foam cushion and padding probably didn't add all that much comfort. All that's been taken out,' he said. 'You haven't really lost all that much if the airline does it right.'"
Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Interesting)
I recently flew on a rather old African owned plane (run by a state airline). It being my first experience with this style of airline (the only other African airline I'd flown was SAA, which is no better or worse than the average European airline), it was interesting. E.g. there was heaps of leg room! It was amazing compared to the other airlines I'd been flying. Economy class was actually comfortable for me, even without pushing the seatback back (which I never like doing if there is someone behind me, I think airlines should remove that option).
On the newer planes though, I always have to get an aisle seat, otherwise I am uncomfortable the entire flight.
Fuck the airlines.
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Most memorable ride for me was on some kind of prop flying low in Zambia, to Lusaka. Lovely view of giraffes. Horrible, terrible turbulence. But great view. Don't recall any problem with seat space.
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Funny)
Lovely view of giraffes. Horrible, terrible turbulence.
Are they ok? How many did you hit?
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Insightful)
The last time I flew internationally (10 hour flight from Seattle to Amsterdam) I got lucky and upgraded to 'comfort' class and the booking agent apologized that I was tuck in the bulkhead row. Stuck? Man that was comfortable I could stretch out. But she was able to do better on the way back, and got me a proper seat. That was painful, and cramped. I had to get the guy on the aisle to let me out 5 times, and each time I was moving like an old man (and I'm not that old).
So I don't think I'll notice the loose of 1 little inch. My knees already run into the back of the seat in front of me. My shoulders already overflow onto the seats besides me. I might notice that my butt will be snug in the seats though.
But if they're jamming more people onto the plane, are they increasing the overhead bin capacity? When I fly I always take a small roller bag for my clothes and a laptop bag. I usually get these stowed (roller bag up top and laptop bag under the seat in front of course) but its usually cramped, and people who come in late always seem to try to jam in on top of everything. Somehow I doubt it as that is passenger convenience, and some airlines (I'm looking at you American) are charging for every checked bag you have. They're currently offering the checked carry on for free, but that might change in the future.
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Interesting)
On a flight from the US to Brazil, I was stuck in the back of the plane and my legs physically wouldn't fit in the seat. The flight attendant told me that I would have to get my legs in there or the flight couldn't take off. I had her call another flight attendant over and then I said "I will get in here, but something is going to break. It will be the seat in front, my seat, or my legs."
I then jammed myself into the seat which broke the rivets/screws of the seat in front of me which slammed the seat forward (with someone in it) making the seat unusable. I foresee this happening again and more often if the airlines continue this stuff.
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I'm 200cm tall.
On a flight from the US to Brazil, I was stuck in the back of the plane and my legs physically wouldn't fit in the seat. The flight attendant told me that I would have to get my legs in there or the flight couldn't take off. I had her call another flight attendant over and then I said "I will get in here, but something is going to break. It will be the seat in front, my seat, or my legs."
I then jammed myself into the seat which broke the rivets/screws of the seat in front of me which slammed the seat forward (with someone in it) making the seat unusable. I foresee this happening again and more often if the airlines continue this stuff.
It sucks, but tall people, and fat people, need more room than 5' people. It's not your fault, but if you expect everyone else to pay for it that's a very socialist viewpoint.
Buy a seat appropriate to your size. I find it hard to believe that a US-Brazil flight didn't have a business class option.
And the flight would have left if you didn't fit in. You wouldn't.
Re: Bullshit we won't notice (Score:4, Insightful)
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I always make sure to move around enough. Not that I'm as tall as you.
And I hear you on the cabin baggage thing! Air France (who I've flown most in recent years) doesn't seem to bother enforcing their limits. So there are people cramming two or even three big bags into the overheard bins.
And business class... Oh, even if it's a crap airline, it's still better than economy class on the average airline... Except that I can't justify the cost...
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Insightful)
My knees already run into the back of the seat in front of me.
The most reasonable measure of airplane seating would be a tuple: the distance from the seat to the seat back in front - the latter in both in upright and reclined mode.
I'm an inch shorter than you, and frankly I'd rather sit on a metal chair with no cushioning and humanitarian leg room than a cushioned seat with no leg room.
Heaven forbid there's ever an accident - tall people will probably wind up with fractured femurs or hips or both. No safety specs on that?
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:4, Insightful)
If you want more legroom and the bulkhead seating is taken, arrive for your flight early and ask to be moved to an emergency exit row. In the U.S. at least, the airlines are not allowed to assign people to this row until the agent can visually confirm that the person is fit and capable of opening and lifting the emergency exit door (weighs about 35-50 lbs). The seats don't recline, but you'll get tons of legroom as they're spaced far enough apart to make an aisle for people to exit the aircraft through.
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:4, Insightful)
without pushing the seatback back (which I never like doing if there is someone behind me, I think airlines should remove that option)
Why? If the person in front of me in a flight pushes their seat back, then it moves the bottom forward very slightly, so I get about half a centimetre of knee room, and it moves the (small) screen of the in-flight entertainment system closer to my eyes. The seats are designed not to be made more uncomfortable when the person in front of you leans back...
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Informative)
I do not share this experience. Typically, when the seat in front of me is pushed back, it collides with my knee-caps, sometimes in a fairly painful manner.
http://www.gadgetduck.com/goods/kneedefender.html [gadgetduck.com]
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Insightful)
The seats don't recline to make much of a difference for sleep. If you can sleep reclined, you can sleep upright. I would also argue that at your height, you have no idea what it means to have a seat reclined into your lap. Once you hit the critical limit of 190 and over, your knees physically touch the seat in front of you, even if both are upright. Someone reclining their seat can result in a very sudden impact on your kneecaps. So I do appreciate it when people at least carefully recline their seat and don't kneecap me.
People like you, on the other hand.... a pox on you for not thinking about the ramifications of your actions.
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Funny)
Your sleep. My health. [wikipedia.org]
Hmm. How to decide?
Hey, interesting fact. You leaning your seat back towards me in the row behind you puts your vulnerable throat closer to my hands.
Sleep tight!
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:4, Interesting)
The real solution is to make seats where the seat back stays upright but the bottom of the seat moves forwards. That way they're the one who loses leg room, not the person behind them.
Or do what Ryan Air does - let me pay $10 extra to reserve a seat in the exit row. I don't mind paying $10 extra for leg room.
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> If the person in front of me in a flight pushes their seat back ...
You get an extra inch, and you also win one (1) free head right in front of your face. If you're lucky, this person doesn't wear overpowering cologne or use some kind of hair gel that makes your eyes water. Or have a high-voltage hairdo that tickles your nose.
What I love, when a plane gets full, is that the rear of the plane tends to "drag down" a bit. SO, when you go to the lavatory, you get to run downhill on the way, then climb uphi
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm 6'7". I do my best not to fly (don't really want to be sexually abused) but when I have to, I am fucking miserable. Most airlines seem to now only give you preferred seating if you're part of some kind of high-mileage club, so I usually don't get to pick the bulkhead. I'll regularly see short people seated there but they never seem to want to swap me; the people with the seat they don't need and the airline employees are both assholes. It doesn't just impact me; my knees are firmly against the seat before me, which cannot be reclined. If the person tries I will shove the seat forward, and hard; if you don't look before you recline, you're an asshole. And if they look back at me for more than the half-second it should take to figure out that I don't fit in the seat, then I look them right in the eye and explain that they don't get to recline their seat, and please stop looking back here.
Americans are getting bigger; not just fatter but taller. But they're reducing the available room on the planes. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that this is bullshit.
Re:Bullshit we won't notice (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, tell me about it. I'm 6'4" (plus a 1/2" extra in the morning) but I have an especially long torso, so we'd probably be eye to eye sitting down. I don't know about you, but the seat in front of me prevents me from slouching the least bit, when I lean my head back on the head rest, my gaze is vertical. It's pretty close to a 90 degree bend, which I try out just for shits and giggles, while other people find ways to sleep.
Pro tip for tall fliers: the foam cushion usually rips off the aluminum seat frame (Velcro). If your ass can handle sitting on the hard, cold metal you might manage enough of a head rest to get a half hour snooze in the mid-flight red-eye hour of total desperation. I've done this many times.
I got stuck on the apron at Schiphol once while they replaced a starter motor. The middle-aged Germanic woman beside me had tree-trunk thighs, clad in tight black neoprene. Our thighs met in a thermonuclear embrace on my side of the arm rest for our entire stay on the apron, plus the return flight to Montreal.
At this point, the airlines can go fuck themselves. I'd rather not leave the ground.
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epine has got to be making that Schiphol incident up and he didn't do a very good job. Everyone knows that only Americans are overweight/oversized.
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Don't believe me. Then you will have to believe Joce640k below.
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...you also win one (1) free head right in front of your face. Ah, modern technology. :)
Pro tip: Aim your air vent right at their head when they do that. It annoys the hell out of them.
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without pushing the seatback back (which I never like doing if there is someone behind me, I think airlines should remove that option)
Why? If the person in front of me in a flight pushes their seat back, then it moves the bottom forward very slightly, so I get about half a centimetre of knee room, and it moves the (small) screen of the in-flight entertainment system closer to my eyes. The seats are designed not to be made more uncomfortable when the person in front of you leans back...
This depends on the plane. Newer Airbus designs do this quite well (the 330? but not the 320/319), sliding the entire bottom portion of the seat forward. Generally Boeing intrudes the seat back into the person behind's space (not sure about the 787 though), and the seatback TV, if one exists, becomes quite difficult to view, even if it is the tilting kind. Regional jets (CRJ, ERJ) are similar to Boeing. It can be done well but it usually is not.
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Some of us try and use laptops on flights. And the lose of space when the seat in front reclines is significant for me for that purpose. Moreover, even trying to eat the provided meals is harder when the seat in front is reclined. The seats maybe meant not to be uncomfortable when reclined, but if I am trying to do anything with the tray, it's a pain in the neck.
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I've noticed that most seats on North American airlines don't do this. The back just leans back and ... that's it. But OP isn't making it up. On most planes in other places, this is in fact how it works. When you recline your seat, the back leans back, but the bottom moves (horizontally) forward at the same time. It's a reasonably substantial movement too - you can feel it move underneath you, much like if you've used slid your car seat forward an inch or two. It changes the shape of the space available to
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Once you start hanging out at a municipal airport, general aviation starts looking a lot more feasible
If you have deep enough pockets to fly transcontinental (or intercontinental) via private plane then just buy a business class ticket on a commercial flight instead. You'll get free bags, move to the front of the queue at security, board first, get a comfortable seat, legroom, free meals and still money over flying privately..
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The main problem I see is that the airlines factor in only butts, and forget that passengers also have arms. A flight I was on a couple years ago had me in an aisle seat on a 3-3 narrowbody, and I had to spend the entire flight uncomfortably leaning into the aisle due to a broad-shouldered neighbour. Thankfully, it was only a two-hour hop, and the next flight was less full.
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"it was interesting. E.g. there was heaps of leg room!"
That was no legroom, that was a hole in the floor.
Stop carrying life jackets? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Stop carrying life jackets? (Score:5, Insightful)
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I read an extra Coke can costs about $500 a year in fuel. Still that's not that much per flight, like less than a dollar.
I'll happily budget less than a dollar per flight, for me anyway, don't know about the gp, for a floatation device.
As for fuel itself, I'll happily burn all the oil in Saudi Arabia to save my life.
Mandatory Come Fly With Me (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idd32nyf1pc [youtube.com]
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You must work for an airline. Water landing? That airline speak for "crash".
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Or it's coming from someone understanding between a controlled landing, albeit not on a runway, and an uncontrolled flight into terrain... or crash, if you prefer.
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I always thought ditching was the intentional, controlled but unscheduled landing on water. I would call the unintentional ones crashes.
For instance, Capt.Sullenberger intentionally ditched his plane into the Hudson River. It was very intentional and briefly planned but was considered an unscheduled landing.
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All of these descriptive terms are intended to obfuscate to true nature of an "unplanned, unscheduled landing" on something other than an airport runway and/or on something other than the aircraft's landing gear.
There's no need to brace for a landing. Planes land thousands of times each day without anyone being told to brace first. If someone tells you to brace, you are about to crash, period. It's just common sense. The only thing that counts as a landing is setting the plane down on its fully function
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There have been occasions where life jackets have save lives, however it probably is marginal.
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Passengers are where the weight is a real concern. Fatbodies cost the airlines money way more than life preservers. Charge by the pound.
I am by no means a fatbody, but I am tall and therefore weigh more than a person with my same build and body type who is shorter than me. I don't much care how much the person next to me weighs (though the airline does). I'd rather those who take up more horizontal space pay more than those who take up more vertical space / weight. I will say that these narrower seats concern me greatly. My hips barely fit between the arm rests I encounter now. (Not referring to the seats specifically mentioned in the a
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Passengers are where the weight is a real concern. Fatbodies cost the airlines money way more than life preservers. Charge by the pound.
I am by no means a fatbody, but I am tall and therefore weigh more than a person with my same build and body type who is shorter than me. I don't much care how much the person next to me weighs (though the airline does). I'd rather those who take up more horizontal space pay more than those who take up more vertical space / weight. I will say that these narrower seats concern me greatly. My hips barely fit between the arm rests I encounter now. (Not referring to the seats specifically mentioned in the article, but the more seats per row on 777 mentioned in summary)
So, if the average human adult has a height of 5'6" and a waist of 38" (those are for male and female combined), you are okay with charging extra for people who are outside the norm because their waist is too wide, but not because they are too tall? Avg weight for a human adult is 180lbs, again ignoring gender. (all of those figures come from the CDC).
It is interesting that when talking about weight and the cost for flying, people only look at people who are wider than the norm as if height doesn't add any
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It is interesting that when talking about weight and the cost for flying, people only look at people who are wider than the norm as if height doesn't add any extra weight.
It's not interesting at all, really. Why do I care if they need more headroom than me? I don't. It doesn't affect me at all. But when I am pressed against the glass of the window because the guy in the middle seat is overflowing 6 inches into my seat? Hell yes I care. And yes I have literally, on a regional jet, had someone sitting next to me who was so large I was pushed into the wall. Did they pay extra for my space? Did I get a discount on my reduced seating capacity? No. They could weigh 500 poun
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Passengers are where the weight is a real concern. Fatbodies cost the airlines money way more than life preservers. Charge by the pound.
I'm pretty sure that overweight people pay for their ticket, so they don't "cost" the airline anything. It might cost more fuel to fly a plane full of 250lb individuals versus 150lb individuals, but that doesn't mean they are overweight. Maybe they are an NFL football team. Besides, a plane is designed to carry a maximum weight and it will be loaded to that maximum weight, if possible with either passengers or cargo. As such, just as much fuel will be burned. If flights were flying at capacity and they we
Can I just stand? (Score:5, Insightful)
Would be comfier at this rate.
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Don't give them any ideas.
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Would be comfier at this rate.
Don’t give any more fuel to that fire... [go.com]
Re:Can I just stand? (Score:5, Informative)
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Would be comfier at this rate.
Heck, they'll just shorten the ceilings then and stack in two tiers of passengers.
The only trust I have in airlines is in their ever increasing capability of making passenger flight uncomfortable.
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slim is good :) (Score:5, Interesting)
As someone who travels a lot, this is false... (Score:3)
I've sat in just about every possible configuration of plane and seat, including these new "ultra-light" seats (which are on a number of United's planes). The seats are slimmer, but the problem is that they are also stiffer, and the material is both harder and less supportive than the standard seat.
I'm usually able to deal with just about any seating situation, but I found myself getting uncomfortable after 30-45 mins in the new seats, particularly my back. I actually had to consistently stretch and turn
Another reason not to fly (unless you HAVE to) (Score:4, Insightful)
I've more or less stopped flying because of all the nuisance fees combined with the delay/hassle of security screening at the airport. If I need to get somewhere REALLY far away, I'll bite the bullet, but for the most part I've switched to trains and driving.
Re:Another reason not to fly (unless you HAVE to) (Score:5, Informative)
My last vacation I took the train (Amtrak Autotrain, Lorton VA to Sanford FL) it was a wonderful experience. Excellent service and food on the southbound trip. Northbound was...okay - I would say very good, except that the southbound trip crew was awesome.
That said, even the "okay" service on the northbound trip was FAR better than any airline experience I have ever had- even when I've flown first class.
Abolutely Shameful (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm 6'5" (1.96m) and the biggest problem I have is the seat width. Thing is, I'm not fat, not particularly broad built or even unusually tall. It's just really difficult to get in them, especially when the arms are fixed. The seats as it stands are made for people who are 5'8" or smaller.
This isn't progress, it's shameful profiteering.
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Depends which way you turn when you the aircraft (Score:5, Insightful)
Jami Counter, senior director at SeatGuru.com, which tracks airline seats and amenities. 'All that foam cushion and padding probably didn't add all that much comfort. All that's been taken out,' he said. 'You haven't really lost all that much if the airline does it right.'"
He shouted from business class.
I wonder if we made a law that said all airline executives had to fly economy whether they would be so keen to make these changes
How many people buy a ticket based on leg room? (Score:5, Interesting)
If people just go to their favorite travel website and sort flights by cost this will continue to happen. Consumers are giving the signal they care about nothing other than cost. If it becomes uncomfortable enough that people select airlines based on comfort over price the airlines will respond. They just want the money. If they could get away with charging more for bean bag seats they would respond.
Re:How many people buy a ticket based on leg room? (Score:5, Insightful)
If people just go to their favorite travel website and sort flights by cost this will continue to happen. Consumers are giving the signal they care about nothing other than cost. If it becomes uncomfortable enough that people select airlines based on comfort over price the airlines will respond. They just want the money. If they could get away with charging more for bean bag seats they would respond.
Is there even a way to sort flights by leg room (or other seat size parameter) on any travel website? Even if one knew the seat pitches in the aircraft that a given airline uses from external sources, one doesn't necessarily know what "equipment" is being used for any given flight. And even then, they're not all necessarily furnished identically. And your plane could change any time between booking and boarding. If you know of a way to do it, I want to know.
And besides, even wishing for this sort of thing will surely prompt some Slashdot griefer to call me "entitled" for stating my product and service preferences.
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Seatguru.com. Shows you the seat configuration for each airplane type on each airline.
Here's how my flight selection works: figure out who flies to where I want to go and get into a ball-park area for price. Identify the planes they use, and look up their general seat configuration on seat-guru. Identify who has the most legroom (generally economy+ class or some similar thing), check if the price is still affordable, and take that.
Fun fact: the economy+ class seats on an Air France Airbus A380 have more leg
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Several years ago, I used to fly to Milwaukee on a regular basis. Midwest Express had a hub there, and I was happy to pay the extra $10 - $15 per round trip to enjoy their wide, comfy, leather seats and hot chocolate chip cookies.
Oh yeah. Midwest Express in the days of champagne and cookies was the way to fly, at least into larger airports. That leg into Madison or Moline on twin-engine, bug-smackin', Buddy Holly plane, not quite so much.
I didn't even mind a layover in MKE to fly Midwest Express. They had the best (only?) used bookstore in any US airport. Found my copy of Abramowitz and Stegun there.
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They already do that here in Norway on long charter trips, if you want to sit a) less cramped or with b) more legroom or c) the full space near the emergency exists you will pay extra. But for the typical 45-90 minute flight time I honestly don't care. I could sit on a bicycle seat in almost standing position if it'd pass safety regulations and brought decent savings.
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I could sit on a bicycle seat in almost standing position if it'd pass safety regulations and brought decent savings.
Please do not give RyanAir any ideas. They are doing perfectly well in making flying the travel equivalent of water boarding themselves without any extra input
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They already do this. The front row and the overwing exits can be reserved for an additional fee.
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> sort flights by cost
I'm willing to pay a little more for a better seat, but flying from a smaller airport (Birmingham, AL), there aren't that many choices. You're gonna be stuck on a CRJ most of the time. You don't fly in those things, you wear them. :)
My wife and I have driven 2-1/2 hrs to the Nashville airport in the past just to get a better plane. Of course, the security is lot more of a hassle at a larger airport. It's a beautiful thing. Compensation: getting to watch all the musician wannabes wal
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Except ALL the airlines are squeezing passengers. There is no expensive carrier you can select to get more room. Paying more for nothing is just throwing money away...
I've long wanted something between coach and first/business class... but nobody offers it. A little more legroom both in front and to the sides, a seat that reclines significantly more, and TWO OF MY OWN DAMN ARMRESTS YOU BASTARDS!
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I do - as a consequence I only fly Lufthansa or Austrian. Any others are too painful.
Ya, but they don't fly from Cincinnati to LA. You gotta fly to Frankfurt to get a flight to LA. That's in Germany. Capital is Berlin. Population: 80.3 million. Very nice forests.
some of us will notice... (Score:2)
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That's a really good argument you made there for compulsory reading comprehension captchas. Unfortunately, you apparently failed to notice that you don't know how to understand what you read before you start flaming. Apparently you decided to post AC for a good reason.
Good news for yoga instructors (Score:3, Insightful)
" Boeing says. American's newest 777s are set up 10-across in coach"
I'm 6'6" (198cm) and on behalf of tall people everywhere can I express a warm and heartfelt welcome to this policy of even further reducing the amount of room available, if this trend continues soon the we tall people will only be able to fly coach by adopting the Dwi Pada Sirsasana pose which if nothing else should please yoga instructors.
Seat weight (Score:3)
At 6'4 I'm pretty protective over my legroom. In my opinion they should improve coach by just not allowing reclining seats. I know that will never "fly", but it really pisses me off when some 5'1 person in front of me reclines their seat all the way back into me once the plane takes off. I just pretend the seat is back in its upright position, and if that means they get bumped every two minutes, they can just move their seatback forward. I guess it's only going to get worse. Or, I have to get a lot richer and start flying in a more expensive class.
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I could contend that if you want a more comfortable seat with reclining room, then YOU should be the one buying the more expensive seat.
I also make allowances for the fact that a larger person is going to want more reclining space than a smaller person, and what time of day/nig
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You *could* also recline your seat.
And how does that fix the problem? All that would do is introduce a new problem into the system for the person behind me without solving my problem in the least. I hate to break it to you, but the reason your chair stops reclining is not because it's hit a mechanical stop, but rather because it's hit my knees. Reclining my seat does nothing to fix that problem, since my knees are still firmly planted in your seat back, and your earlier "Fuck you. Seriously fuck you." when a commenter said that you'd have to
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29lb isn't that impressive when you consider they're not individual seats, but actually glorified benches.
It is pretty impressive for a seat which has to support a 200lb person in a 16g crash and not break.
Other news (Score:5, Funny)
Time for Tube Planes (Score:5, Funny)
A bunch of tubes (or padded cubes) where the passenger slides in, a hatch is closed behind them and soothing music is piped in to help them sleep (or gas, whichever works best).
[John]
Cargo (Score:2)
Rather than do this incremental changes, why don't the airlines simply jump to their end game: drug economy class passengers, slap diapers on them, and put them in cargo?
I am sure that people are working on promoting this as a anti-terrorist measure. (Won't someone think of the children?) Kind of reminds me of slowly boiling a frog in water, except we are the frogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog [wikipedia.org]
If only we had decent high-speed rail options in North America. Whenever I fly to Europe, I typicall
Great quote from the summary (Score:2)
I love it:
'All that foam cushion and padding probably didn't add all that much comfort. All that's been taken out,' he said. 'You haven't really lost all that much if the airline does it right.'
Pure speculation at its finest and spoken by a person who probably doesn't travel much.
Airbus 2000 (Score:2)
So, we all get to stand up like sardines? Fit a few more in the overhead bins....like right out of M.A.D. magazine's "No Frills Airlines" series.
I still remember taking a flight home on Icelandic Air in the late 1980's....it was a tight fit...but, the food was amazing and the manner they treated us went way beyond exemplary. British Airways was the same way when I flew business class and, in one case, flying home sick (really bad sinus infection (non-infectious, btw)). They did everything they could to
Good thing I don't fly any more (Score:2)
My first experience with the newer thin seats was on Continental maybe ten years ago. Within fifteen minutes of sitting down, half the muscles in my back were spasming. The only position I could stand was leaning far forward with my elbows on my knees. After that, I refused to fly Continental except for one case where the usual emergency reschedule landed me on one flying from Atlanta to Phoenix. Spent the whole trip "in the position" -- and I noticed that there were several others, incuding the woman n
The Ryanair Effect (Score:3)
It's the Ryanair, low cost airline effect. It's all about the price, squeeze every penny, charge for baggage, (pretend to) charge for toilet usage, just get them from A to B for the minimum advertised price and them make them pay for it in discomfort, inconvenience, or extra charges later.
And there's something to be said for this model. It has brought affordable, regular, international, air travel to the masses -- for the prices mentioned above.
But, look, let me put it this way: I will pay the extra â100 or even â200 euros per flight to fly with Aer Lingus or BA, in some modicum of comfort, without the mental overhead of restrictions, and to be dropped off in an actual city instead of an airport 80km from where I want to go. There are limits to how low people will go for the right price and I think the airline industry has already hit that mark.
BA (Score:2)
Every so often I fly on BA from London to Houston. I swear that the seats in economy on BA have less room than the seats on easyJet. Also after about 4 hours, the BA seats feel like slabs of concrete.
I'm not complaining though, the round trip on BA is stupidly cheap, and it includes free booze (which alleviates the concrete seat problem somewhat).
time to require seat tests rigs at check-ins (Score:2)
airlines need to be required to have a demo seat for cattle-class to try out at the check-in counter. Set it up with a pokey wall to the left where the passenger division is, so you know you won't be sticking your elbow in the other fellow's lap. And have the front partitioned to show the seat in front of you reclined.
Similar on topic, I'd like to see someone do a volumetric comparison between airline seats, all now, and comparing against previous years. A nice graph to show hard numbers of how seating s
don't get me started (Score:2)
at 6'7", economy on most airlines is beyond tolerable: the seat pitch is less than the length of my knee to butt.
Last night I was on a United flight that theoretically had "economy plus" but was given the lame excuse that it's a brand new airplane and "hasn't been reconfigured yet" -- never have I heard such refined bullsh*t.
Re: (Score:2)
As a man who is 6'6" and 255, I have a place in mind where they can stick these new seats.
I'm only 6' 1" and 230, the biggest pain for me is my knees hitting the seat in front of me. Since I have only a 36" inseam, I am seeing 30" between my back and the row in front of me beautiful in theory. In reality, I know my shins are longer than 6", so I am still puzzled on what they are measuring here.
Re: (Score:2)
At 6'1" and 230 your Body Mass Index is over 30 - obese.
It might be, if BMI wasn't junk science from the 19th century and didn't only approximate people in the middle of the height range.
(clue: We're three dimensional, we grow in three dimensions, out mass changes as a cubic function of height)
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Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:It not logical Captain (Score:5, Insightful)
No, they'll just take up half my seat while the airline expects me to suffer in silence.
Re:It not logical Captain (Score:5, Funny)
The armrest can keep the solid parts of them away from you, but you still need to fight off the gooey parts.
Re: (Score:3)
Any reasonably smart party of two will book the window and aisle hoping that the flight isn't at capacity and that the middle seat never fills.
When you're a single traveler looking a the last dozen seats available on an airplane, you'll almost always pick an open window or aisle before choosing a middle seat.
If their gamble is successful, they get three seats for the price of two.
If their gamble is unsuccessful, they get what they paid for, and often end up sitting together anyway, because they'll just trad
Re: (Score:3)
fat americans aren't getting any taller so adding more rows was the answer.
Re:It not logical Captain (Score:5, Funny)
The american airlines should just carry things to their logical conclusion, sedate everyone, and then stack them like firewood.
Re: (Score:3)
"The american airlines should just carry things to their logical conclusion, sedate everyone, and then stack them like firewood."
But with the new, thin beach chairs, you'll be able to feel the knees of the 12year old behind you much better, it will be like a massage.
Re: (Score:3)
If they could do that without long (or short) term complications, I'd be all for sedated flying.
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Of course, there's only so far they can push it. FAA does impose regulations on seat arrangement and spacing.
Re:It not logical Captain (Score:4, Insightful)
"This gives airlines two of their favorite things: more paying passengers, and a smaller fuel bill (the seats are slightly lighter)."
Exactly, the seats are negligible in weight compared to the passengers themselves. I bet the extra 5-6 passengers easily outweigh the "lighter seats" by 10-30 times. Especially when you add any luggage and/or carryons....
All this will do is piss off more people and turn them off to flying unless absolutely necessary.
Re:It not logical Captain (Score:5, Insightful)
All this will do is piss off more people and turn them off to flying unless absolutely necessary.
I doubt if most people will notice. When making flying decisions, most passengers care about three things:
1. cost of the tickets
2. fares
3. ticket prices
Discount airlines that have cut amenities to reduce costs, have thrived.
Speaking for myself, I have a family to support, and renting a comfortable seat for a few hours is not a priority.
If a thinner seat allows the airline to cut $20 off the price, that is fine with me.
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