Who Is Liable When a Self-Driving Car Crashes? 937
innocent_white_lamb writes "Current laws make the driver of a car responsible for any mayhem caused by that vehicle. But what happens when there is no driver? This article argues that the dream of a self-driving car is futile since the law requires that the driver is responsible for the operation of the vehicle. Therefore, even if a car is self-driving, you as the driver must stay alert and pay attention. No texting, no reading, no snoozing. So what's the point of a self-driving car if you can't relax or do something else while 'driving?'"
Efficiency. (Score:5, Insightful)
Safety (Score:5, Insightful)
I would think the point would be that machines, once properly programmed, can be the worlds safest drivers...statistically. You, as a human, will still be responsible for taking over when the machine doesn't know what to do. But, for the other 99.5% of the time, the self-driving car will make the best decisions and always be completely alert.
Self-Driving cars, I believe, have the ability to drastically reduce deaths caused by motor vehicle accidents...one of the highest causes of death in the USA.
Insurance (Score:5, Insightful)
There's an industry that manages risk.
Regulation (e.g., insurance) always develops spontaneously, because there is a market for reducing chaos.
laws change (Score:5, Insightful)
Current law not appropriate for future technology! News at 11!
Depends (Score:3, Insightful)
Boring Drive (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Safety (Score:4, Insightful)
No way that's gonna work.
There's now way you can expect people to be alert and responsive if they have to be on the ball for that small fraction of the time -- they'll have started reading their paper or plenty of other things.
If I'm responsible for the operation of the vehicle, I'll bloody well drive myself and be engaged for the entire time, and don't need your autonomous car.
I'f I'm not responsible for the operation of the vehicle, I want to be in the back seat in one hell of a good safety cage with no pretense whatsoever that I'm in control.
You can't have the vehicle responsible most of the time, and the ostensible operator responsible whenever that stops working suddenly, it defeats the purpose.
Which, to me, is kind of a fairly fundamental problem with self driving cars. It's all or nothing. And if *all* the cars on the road aren't autonomous, then the autonomous ones are mostly a traffic hazard with no clear liability.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:5, Insightful)
Think of all the problems it could solve though. For example, oblivious drivers shoulder to shoulder going the same speed and not letting anyone else pass. If the cars were autonomous then they could simply tell each other to move over. I would love to have that ability now. Lane speed could also be regulated. If you wanted your car to drive slower then it would stay in the farther right lanes. If your car was being passed on the right, then it would keep moving over until no one is passing it on the right. It would be great if humans did that today, which is the cause for most of the slowdown that I see on the highways.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:1, Insightful)
Not to mention that the government can hack your car to kill you, like they did Micheal Hastings -- and Hastings' car wasn't even self-driving.
It is for this reason that I drive an older model with a manual transmission, with manual door locks and crank-operated windows. Government takes out my brakes? No problem, shift into first and engine-brake going 10 mph down the hill. Stuck accelerator? Put 'er in neutral. Get caught in a storm or drive into a lake? I can simply unlock the door or roll down my windows and swim out, no power components to sieze up or go inactive. Starter or battery dead? Push-start the car. Save gas? Coast in neutral down large hills. It will take nothing short of a remote-controlled bomb or gunfire or a chase ram car to assassinate somebody driving an all-manual car.
-- Ethanol-fueled
Re:Boring Drive (Score:3, Insightful)
Yep, you're right, but the problem is that people are so fucking stupid that if any non-autonomous drivers were on the road it would be pulling over constantly. How many times a week do people get too close to you on the highway or tailgate. How many times a week do you pull up to a four-way stop and some hillbilly can't comprehend what to do? The same things will happen to self-driving cars while there are still people driving their own machines.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Boring Drive (Score:5, Insightful)
Not to mention that people who have been using self-driving cars all their life will have 99% less driving experience. They will basically all be student drivers, but without a teacher in the car when something goes wrong.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:5, Insightful)
Of course in the real world the driver is almost never personally held liable. If I let my friend drive my car and he causes a crash on accident My insurance for My car will pay for the accident. I didn't cause the crash my my car which I insured crashed so ultimately my insurance pays for it and my rates go up. Who the driver is, my friend or an AI system is irrelevant.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:3, Insightful)
A report showing the effect [nbcnews.com] and a chart [fueleconomy.gov] which gives a graphical representation of this effect.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:4, Insightful)
Well, I'll bite.
Government takes out my brakes? No problem, shift into first and engine-brake going 10 mph down the hill.
Good luck with that at any speed which would have the potential to kill you
Stuck accelerator? Put 'er in neutral.
Or turn off the ignition.
Get caught in a storm or drive into a lake? I can simply unlock the door or roll down my windows and swim out, no power components to sieze up or go inactive.
Car doors can usually be opened from the inside even when locked. An exception are back doors with stupid-child protection engaged
Starter or battery dead? Push-start the car.
Yep. But not relevant to the point being discussed. It's about gov't being out to kill you, remember?
Save gas? Coast in neutral down large hills.
No, you're wasting gas that way, since you still need some to keep the idle rev. Non-ancient cars will actually shut off fuel injection when gravity happens to temporarily become 'fuel'
It will take nothing short of a remote-controlled bomb or gunfire or a chase ram car to assassinate somebody driving an all-manual car.
And that is why your whole paranoia is even more ridiculous.
Disclaimer: i drive manual transmission too, but for none of the reasons you mention. My reasons are: a) simpler/more robust design (i.e. one less part which can fail fail), b) more control, c) avoid ridicule
Re: Efficiency. (Score:5, Insightful)
As for who's responsible when a driverless car crashes it will probably be the same as when a dog kills someone, the owner of the dog is responsible. Just because the owner wasn't operating the wheel doesn't make them any less responsible, but just like we have learned to trust cruise control and drive by wire gas pedals to not suddenly accelerate, we will learn to trust driverless cars.
But how will cops be able to tell drunk drivers if the car is driving? And does it even matter if they're drunk if the car is driving them home?
Submitter doesn't understand the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Right now you have to (a) watch out what you are doing and (b) pray that you don't have an accident. With a self driving car you don't need to watch out what you or the car are doing; you still have to pray that you don't have an accident.
And the whole idea of taking control in unexpected situations is nonsense. In the very best case, you would have to (1) do something to take control away from the computer and (2) react to the problem. In situations where there is enough time for that, the computer can handle things just fine. And people may think they are good in unexpected situations, but they are not.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:5, Insightful)
Efficiency can have multiple meanings. You're talking about maximizing mileage for the fuel used. What if we're talking about getting you from point A to point B the fastest possible to efficiently minimize your travel time and maximize your time at the destination? Or if the self-driving car is a taxi, for delivering one fare and picking up another, balancing fuel economy, fare rates, and fare availability, "efficiently" maximizing revenue while minimizing idle time.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:5, Insightful)
Time efficient, vs cost. I can not get more time, I can get more money thus I value my time far more than money. By your charts paying 33-50% more to get someplace 2x as fast is well worth it. If your time is cheap but your money dear stay in the slow lane.
Re:Efficiency. (Score:3, Insightful)
everyone believes they are a skilled driver with a properly maintained vehicle
Re:Ever heard of mechanical failures? (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm not buying a self-driving car until I can sit in the back seat and drink a beer.