A Strategy For Attaining Cuban Internet Connectivity 119
lpress writes "In the mid 1990s, there was debate within the Cuban government about the Internet. A combination of pressure from the U.S. trade embargo, the financial crisis brought on by the collapse of the Soviet Union and fear of free expression led to a decision to limit Internet access. This has left Cuba with sparse, antiquated domestic infrastructure today.
Could the government improve the situation if they decided to do so? They don't have sufficient funds to build out modern infrastructure and foreign investment through privatization of telecommunication would be difficult to obtain. Furthermore, that strategy has not benefited the people in other developing nations.
A decentralized strategy using a large number of satellite links could quickly bootstrap the Cuban Internet. Decentralized funding and control of infrastructure has been an effective transitional strategy in other cases, for example, with the NSFNET in the U.S. or the Grameen Phone ladies in Bangladesh.
This proposal would face political roadblocks in both the US and Cuba; however, change is being considered in the U.S. and the Castro government has been experimenting with small business and they have begun allowing communication agents to sell telephone and Internet time. It might just work — as saying goes "Be realistic. Demand the impossible.""
Control vs. Prosperity (Score:5, Insightful)
Allowing Internet connectivity reduces the centralized control that a totalitarian Communist system requires in order to protect the leaders and the system itself from the inconvenience of reality.
US Policy is the big limit to Cuban Internet (Score:2)
The best way to keep a totalitarian ideological government in power is to limit communications with the outside and continue to give it enemies to justify the government's existence. The US government has been trying as hard as possible to keep doing this for decades.
The US economic embargo has severely limited telephone communications with Cuba for decades, and more recently has limited Internet connectivity, and the travel policy has limited US tourism and family visits from "corrupting" Cubans by exposu
Re: (Score:3)
Whereas in other countries we apparently use distributed control in order to protect the leaders and the system from the inconvenience of reality.
Re: (Score:2)
Allowing Internet connectivity reduces the centralized control that a totalitarian Communist system requires in order to protect the leaders and the system itself from the inconvenience of reality.
It's OK, the cable companies and telcos are trying their hardest to put the genie back in the bottle.
Re: Control vs. Prosperity (Score:2)
Right ... like China, Egypt, Russia, ... oh, and the US. And yet, the increased connectivity in each is allowing the public in each a greater hand in their own governance by allowing freedom if speech.
Re: (Score:2)
Which was GP's point, I think. I doubt very seriously that whichever Castro is running things now is all that interested in...how did you put it?
Oh, yeah, " the increased connectivity in each is allowing the public in each a greater hand in their own governance by allowing freedom if speech"....
Re: (Score:2)
I just read a very interesting article, that proposes the thought that BitCoin is not money, it's the internet of money [theumlaut.com]. If the writer is correct, bitcoin's protocol and scripting system has the potential to break every government's (and banking system's) monopoly on the control of financial transactions. It could have a similar effect on financial transactions to the effects HTML and HTTP have had on information 'ownership' and transfer. IOW, their business models may have already been sunk. This has e
Re: (Score:2)
Allowing Internet connectivity reduces the centralized control that a totalitarian Communist system requires in order to protect the leaders and the system itself from the inconvenience of reality.
It hasn't reduced the protection of our corrupt oligarchy here in the Capitalist world. Quite the opposite, gave them one more tool to spy and control us.
Re: (Score:3)
It's hard to know anymore what anyone really means when they use the terms "communist" and "socialist".
Marx used both of them to refer to societies where the means of production were collectively owned, where socialism was a transitional period before full communism.
In practice, collective ownership has meant state ownership.
Are you suggesting that it's the form of state ownership that distinguishes socialism from communism?
Re: (Score:3)
Don't even argue. He's just an assclown repeating 'no true Scotsman'.
Communism is the system of government practiced by self described communists. Old books full of fallacies (the manifesto) don't even enter into the argument. Communism inevitably leads to totalitarianism. Because communism concentrates power and power corrupts.
Re:Control vs. Prosperity (Score:4, Insightful)
The exact same is true of Capitalism.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Except its not.
Tell me, if the exact same thing is true of capitalism, then why is it that all of the self identified capitalist societies have the highest education rates, highest literacy rates, and highest standards of living for everybody overall?
Compare that to self identified socialist states where quality of life and education are the worst. Notice how as China has been sliding away from socialism and more towards capitalism, the quality of life and individual liberties have improved.
Another example:
Re: (Score:3)
Vietnam has a high standard of education. Overseas students from Vietnam definitely show up at Australian universities with better high school education than the locally educated kids. In my experience, the USSR delivered some highly educated people as well.
It's hardly fair to ignore external factors that affect quality of life in Vietnam. They had the shit bombed out of them by the US and a lot of farmland destroyed with Agent Orange. Then they had the drain on their economy of cleaning up Cambodia in
Re: (Score:2)
hen they had the drain on their economy of cleaning up Cambodia in the wake of Pol Pot.
The Cambodian genocide incidentally is a huge communism factor.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Sweden also chose socialism. Look at the shithole it has become.
Re: (Score:2)
Sweden is a capitalist welfare state. Which isn't a trouble free situation but is not full on Marxism derived thinking.
Are you one of those 'Socialism evil, EVIL' people? It's not socialism unless the 'people own the means of production'.
Re: (Score:3)
That was a sarcastic answer to GP; I'm not one of these people, I think Sweden is a great country, and I'm fact gonna visit there in two weeks.
I'm aware that yours is the "correct" definition of socialism, but you should also taking into account that the definition is very much culture-dependent. People in Europe usually refer to Sweden as socialist, and I'm happy to go along, since the old form of socialsm doesn't exist anymore in Europe.
Swedens Socialism (Score:2)
Sponsored by Volvo and Ikea...we feed the world one meatball at a time.
Re: (Score:3)
You should do some research on how Cuba was before the revolution. People don't revolt for nothing, you know? Although it's undeniable that today Cuba is quite poor (partly because of their own economic mismanagement, partly because of the US embargo), it is still in a better shape than it was under Fulgencio Batista. At least the people now have universal access to health and education.
Re: (Score:1)
North and South Korea didn't "choose" communism and capitalism. Two halves of Korea were occupied by the Soviet Union and the United States respectively at the end of the second world war. Rather than letting the people of Korea figure anything out for themselves they were catapulted into the Korean War. Then South Korea endured years of harsh authoritarian rule while pursuing capitalism and industrialization. Much of this has to do with coercive US-Korea relations... so it's not always a matter of socialis
Re: (Score:3)
Except its not.
Tell me, if the exact same thing is true of capitalism, then why is it that all of the self identified capitalist societies have the highest education rates, highest literacy rates, and highest standards of living for everybody overall?
Actually it is.
There aren't any pure capitalist societies, unlike communism which started and failed, pure capitalist societies never ever got off the ground.
Western economies are mixed economies, neither pure capitalist or socialist, rather a mix of the two and this is why they are so successful. Capitalism and Communism are limited ideologies incapable of change or accommodating anything out of their limited ideologies. This is why communism failed and pure capitalism (libertarianism) has never even
Re: (Score:1)
You don't even know what socialism is. Socialism means that there's no private ownership of the factors of production; either a government entity controls it or people just work "for the greater good". The first is socialism, the second is communism. The second has never, ever even started. Even communes like the Icarians still effectively had their own governing system that controlled it. Marx basically predicted that these communes would turn into the later scenario and there would be no need for central
Re: (Score:2)
You don't even know what socialism is
You seem to have me confused with yourself.
Socialism means that there's no private ownership of the factors of production
Nope, here you demonstrate you dont know what socialism is. Socialism is covers a very broad range of ideologies from co-operative enterprise to state ownership.
Nordic countries, much like the rest of the western world use a mixed economy, neither capitalist nor communist and they do tend to have a lot more co-operative enterprise than most nations. Whether this is good or bad depends on your own philosop
Re: (Score:2)
Tell me, if the exact same thing is true of capitalism, then why is it that all of the self identified capitalist societies have the highest education rates, highest literacy rates, and highest standards of living for everybody overall?
"Education rates" and "Standards of living" or somewhat subjective and thus hard to compare (though I guess what you say is true for many countries, with notable exceptions). "Literacy rates" are hard comparable numbers, and looking at that Cuba is not doing bad:
Literacy in Cuba 99.8%
Literacy in US 99%
Source: CIA World fact book: https://www.cia.gov/library/pu... [cia.gov]
Re: (Score:2)
No, it's not. It's a capitalist welfare state. In socialism the factors of production are controlled by a government entity and/or aren't owned by private individuals.
Re: (Score:2)
The exact same is true of Capitalism.
Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's the other way around.
Re:Control vs. Prosperity (Score:5, Insightful)
Because communism concentrates power and power corrupts.
And what does capitalism do?
Re: (Score:2)
In Capitalist countries, office holders and policy makers get voted out of office occasionally.
(And before you say (as I know you intended to) that there is no difference between the parties, just scan a few threads here on Slashdem to see all the anti republican rants. There seems to be a lot of difference in many people's minds.)
Re: (Score:2)
Better then your argument:
$System is imperfect. We can imagine a better one, even though it's failed every time it's been tried.
Re: (Score:2)
Wait. What does Capitalism have to do with democracy? Some Capitalist countries, especially the richest ones, are democratic, but democracy is by no means a required part of the Capitalist economic system.
A better statement might be to say that central planning of economies doesn't work. While central planning is a typical feature of Communism, they aren't always the same thing.
Re: (Score:2)
Granting Central planning is the biggest problem with socialism, it's not the only one. It is the factor that makes 'Libertarian Socialist' an oxymoron.
You can't have Capitalism without markets. You can't have markets without free economic actors with their own interests.
Reviewing history: 'Capitalism' in totalitarian states is a pale shadow of its free form. Weak growth, squandered resources.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3)
What I find problematic with that mode of argument is that it tends to turn McCarthyite very quickly. Castro attempted to cut a deal with the US before going to the Soviets, he is rather less committed to communism than either his supporters or his opponents believe. He also gave the CIA the location of Che Guavera when he decided he was a liability. So there has been a basis for cooperation for a long time.
The list of crimes committed by US Presidents panicking about communism is very long. Snuffing out a
Re: (Score:3)
In America, a socialist is a person who wishes to spend money on anything other than the military.
Not going to help (Score:1, Insightful)
The U.S.. and a bunch of exiles still pissed about losing their wealth from when they were Battista cronies, have a serious hate-on for Cuba. Until the Castros are dead and Cuba is a slathering U.S. lapdog, the U.S. and CIA will actively sabotage any development there.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3)
Ah yes, just like Saddam Hussein.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Your "knowledge" of history is somewhat mistaken. The reason Castro was driven to looking for help from the USSR was the stupid attitude of the USA. That help had a cost, which was the placement of nukes. The Cuban missile crisis was the result of America's attitude to Cuba and Castro, not a planned event by Castro. Wise up and learn what actually happened rather than through the filter of "USA! USA! USA!"
Re: (Score:2)
Putting nukes in Cuba was just a predictable chess move to counter the American nukes in Turkey.
Pulling both back was the only sane move. Why would anybody want to put their enemy into a position that they _had_ to fire their nukes on launch detection? The same thing played out in reverse in the 80s in Europe. (Thank god for Vasili Arkhipov. May his family prosper.)
The details in Cuba were to say the least interesting. People give Kennedy too much credit and not enough blame for the missile crisis. Ord
Re: (Score:3)
The U.S.. and a bunch of exiles still pissed about losing their wealth...
When Pope John Paul II visited Cuba in 1988, he and Fidel Castro went on a boat tour of the harbor in Havana. About half way through the tour, the boat sank. Fidel picked up the pope and carried him back to shore, walking on the water the entire way.
The next day, the newspaper headline in Tribuna de La Habana read "Castro Displays Superiority of Socialist Man".
The newspaper headline in L'Osservatore Romano read "Pope Helps Fidel Perform Miracle".
The newspaper headline in the Miami Herald read "Fid
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Look at this page from the CIA World Fact Book [cia.gov] and look at the relative positions of the US and Cuba.
Re: (Score:2)
Cuba has a better standard of living than most Latin American counties. And all this despite the stupid, illegal and outrageous US blockade that turns every little thing Cuba wants to do in a painful ordeal.
You just feel butt-hurt for not having Cuba at your disposal to use as cheap farming ground and brothel.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I have no need to steal land or patronize sex workers, Captain Straw Man.
I don't support the embargo, but every democratic country has the option to choose who it does business with.
That doesn't give you the right to bully other countries and private companies that want to do business with Cuba.
Re: (Score:2)
The U.S.. and a bunch of exiles still pissed about losing their wealth from when they were Battista cronies, have a serious hate-on for Cuba. Until the Castros are dead and Cuba is a slathering U.S. lapdog, the U.S. and CIA will actively sabotage any development there.
This is idiotic old school thinking.
Establishing open internet connections changes users perspective, it is seductive beyond any ability to control. China is a perfect example. In spite of having enough people to build and maintain the great firewall of China, it has been largely ineffective, and the people have seen and adopted world views. The entire country has and is changing and even those in power see little point in preventing free access to world news (as long as it doesn't tie to any key hot but
Re: (Score:2)
The current regime would last maybe 8 years after that.
You've been peddling this same bullshit since 59.
Re: (Score:2)
How long has Cuba had free access to the internet?
Way to totally miss the point!
Re: (Score:2)
Before the Internet, it was something else. The Cuban regime has been "on the brink of collapse" since I can remember.
It has survived the fall of the Soviet Union, why do you think it won't survive the Internet?
Re: (Score:2)
Because the internet is totally seductive, not to mention incredibly useful, and even people in government begin to change their minds. This already happened in china, and russia, and all the former soviet states. When the leaders themselves change their minds, the rest will follow. Besides, the time is ripe. The old guard is OLD. Raul is 82.
There are precisely two countries in the world locked into the dictator model of communist states, North Korea, and Cuba, and neither allows their people to see th
Re: (Score:2)
What you wrote doesn't make any sense, it's just uninformed speculation and wishful thinking. The Castro brothers are precisely the ones leading the reforms in Cuba.
As to Russia and China, I fail to see the correlation between Internet access and change of government. The Russian government is in a Medieval conservative rampage, with little opposition. And the Chinese regime enjoys widespread support among the population.
Re: (Score:1)
The Castros stole the private property of citizens and foreigners, alike.
Nice strawman. Regardless, it would STILL be better for the citizens than what they have now.
Re: (Score:1)
The Castros stole the private property of citizens and foreigners, alike.
So did Mao in China. But you don't see the Chinese-exile hate mongering community. They've moved on. Cuban "exiles", on the other hand, would torpedo anything that would improve actual conditions of people in Cuba. Cut your nose off to spite the face kind of a deal.
Re: (Score:2)
The U.S.. and a bunch of exiles still pissed about losing their wealth from when they were Battista cronies, have a serious hate-on for Cuba.
Cuba is an island ninety miles off the US coast whose primary source of income is tourism. How do you propose to keep Cuba from falling back into orbit with the US?
Venezuela props up the regime, but Venezuela is dead on its feet.
In early 2013, Venezuela devalued its currency due to growing shortages in the country. The shortages included necessities such as toilet paper, milk, and flour. Fears rose so high due to the toilet paper shortage that the government occupied a toilet paper factory. Venezuela's bond ratings have also decreased multiple times in 2013 due to decisions by the president Nicolas Maduro. One of his decisions was to force stores and their warehouses to sell all of their products, which may lead to even more shortages in the future. Venezuela's outlook has also been deemed negative by most bond-rating services. According to a Johns Hopkins University professor, Venezuela had a 297% implied inflation rate for 2013.
Venezuela [wikipedia.org]
The Cuban Landline (Score:5, Informative)
Cuba recently (last 18 months) had an undersea line laid from Cuba to Venezuela. Previously they could only connect via Satellite link.
Re: (Score:3)
And they could share the cost of satelite communication with the Bolivian government which just launched it's own satelite.
And if they start with providing enough connectivity for a couple of business hubs (wich means a couple of ethernet cables and wifi) they could try to use it to boost their economy, and if it works it will pay for itself.
If it does not work, then they will feel that they do not really need it (and since easy access to youtube and facebook will not really help the common cuban citizen an
Re: (Score:2)
They have to tap a certain number of undersea lines/year just to keep in training. The submarines are a sunk cost.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I believe most 'Cuban' cigars are remarked 'Hondurans' (don't ever go to www.justfakes.com). Not sure about the refugees. If I was on a boat coming from Haiti, I'd claim to be Cuban.
Why are you so fucking stupid? (Score:2, Informative)
Cuba is a totalitarian communist dictatorship [worldaffairsjournal.org]. That dictatorship has absolutely no interest in a decentralized Internet solution. Cuba's police state was set up by Che Guevara [worldaffairsjournal.org], who modeled it on that of his NKVD/KGB tutor, Lavrenty Beria.
The communist government has exactly zero interest in "decentralization."
Re: (Score:2)
If you were in Cuba that means you weren't in the US. It would be great if you kept it that way.
I guess that's the best example on how the US are so very fucking democratic and free!
Re: (Score:3)
Take a look at apple or microsoft's website if you want some perfection.
You must be new here. You can't be *both* an Apple and a Microsoft fanboy; you must choose sides.
Re: (Score:2)
Well done, I got down to your third bullet before I realised you were trolling. Try to get in a little earlier for more exposure next time.
Cuba (Score:1)
Serious Flaws with Study (Score:2)
This is my field... not Cuba, but IT trade in emerging markets. The second link critiquing private infrastructure investment is flawed, kind of stupid, and possibly biased (in favor of government's active participation). Look at the data on the chart and gee, it looks like the emerging markets (the author still uses the word "developing") are way behind. But you have to weight the charts by population... weighted average tells a completely different story. 3B3K (three billion people living in nations
Seriously? (Score:3)
Cuba is a totalitarian police state [worldaffairsjournal.org]. The problem is not too little infrastructure, it's too much oppression. And I don't see how an initiative like this could change the situation.
Re: (Score:1)
Hush, you fool! Let the dumb Americans believe their government's propaganda. It makes it a great vacation spot to get away from them.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
You are kidding, right? I'm a Cuban-American, grew up in Miami. Mom fled while she could, grand-parents got out in the final stages of their lives when they became a burden on the Cuban state. We hosted refugees from the Mariel boat-lift in our home in Miami and saw Miami transformed by the mass migration of Cubans to the US.
People are wards of the state. They attend government run schools where they are indoctrinated in socialist-communist ideology. They are taught to worship a man Fidel Castro whom they have no right to vote in or out of office.
Consider the possibility that you don't know as much about Cuba as you think. Over the past 50 years, a peculiar political culture had taken root in Miami which led to rampant speculation and the unchecked spread of rumors. Until recently, the lack of direct telecommunication between Cuba and the US was one factor. Other players were the large populations of exiles who had lost property in the revolution and militants who participated in the Bay of Pigs invasion (you didn't think those radicalized Cubans ju
Cuba-specific Tor + long range wifi (802.22?) (Score:3)
If Cuba built its own onion routing network (perhaps using Tor software though not connected to the Tor network), then each satellite dish or other internet connection would automatically be able to facilitate connectivity for the rest of the network. No need to wire anything (except some of the exit nodes), this can all happen over wifi.
Don't forget that 802.11af, 802.11y, and 802.22 have ranges measured in miles (802.22 can cover 100km). Blanketing an island of 110km would still take a good number of antennae (especially given the dead zones created by dense buildings in cities), but at a governmental budget scale, it seems quite feasible.
Re: (Score:3)
"The island is 1,250 km (780 mi) long and 191 km (119 mi) across its widest points and 31 km (19 mi) across its narrowest points.[1] The largest island outside the main island is the Isla de la Juventud (Isle of Youth) in the southwest, with an area of 2,200 km2 (850 sq mi)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G... [wikipedia.org]
Re: (Score:2)
"The island is 1,250 km (780 mi) long and 191 km (119 mi) across its widest points and 31 km (19 mi) across its narrowest points.[1] The largest island outside the main island is the Isla de la Juventud (Isle of Youth) in the southwest, with an area of 2,200 km2 (850 sq mi)." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_Cuba [wikipedia.org]
Sorry, Slashdot killed my squared symbol and I missed it in the content preview. Wikipedia says Cuba is 110 km^2 in area.
If 802.22 can cover a 100km radius (200km diameter), width isn't an issue. The 1,250km length would need only seven full-powered 802.22 antennae to provide a "backbone" across the main island (1250/200 = 6.25). Maybe each of those can have either a satellite uplink or a wired connection. Surely, another few hundred cheaper and/or lower-powered antennae (perhaps 802.11y or 802.11af?)
What's their cell phone strategy? (Score:1)
Wouldn't it face the same issues?
As far as internet, the people may wish to look at mesh wifi setups.
Cuba is a totalitarian regime that has suppressed (Score:1)
Let's cut to the chase here - the US is not the reason why Cuba's government suppresses human rights and other aspects of modern civilization such as property ownership, education, access to health care, access to food, shelter, travel and freedom of expression. Cuban citizens have few if any rights to protest or challenge government policy. Those that do have historically been beaten, jailed or executed.
Access to the internet is just the latest example. What Cuba needs is a reformed economy that allows