S. Korea's Cyberwar Against N. Korea's Nukes 57
An anonymous reader writes "Yonhap News Agency reports that South Korea has announced it is developing offensive cyber-capabilities to target North Korea's nuclear facilities. Yonhap speculates the tools will be similar to the Stuxnet computer virus the U.S. used against Iran's uranium enrichment program. A report in The Diplomat questions this assertion, noting that a Stuxnet-like virus would only temporarily disrupt Pyongyang's ability to build more nuclear weapons, while doing nothing to address its existing ones. Instead, The Diplomat suggests Seoul is interested in developing cyber-capabilities that temporarily disable North Korea's ability to launch nuclear missiles, which would be complement Seoul's efforts to develop precision-guided missiles to preemptively destroy Pyongyang's nuclear and missile facilities."
NK has limited internet links so are the sites eve (Score:2)
NK has limited internet links so are the sites even online?
Re:NK has limited internet links so are the sites (Score:5, Informative)
Don't need to be. Stuxnet got into Iran's offline nuclear program computers on a USB stick. The trick is making a really hellaciously virulent bit of malicious software, something that can become a global-level nuisance, and in time it'll find its way onto the target machines.
http://www.wired.com/threatlev... [wired.com]
Re:NK has limited internet links so are the sites (Score:4, Insightful)
The trick is making a really hellaciously virulent bit of malicious software
The other trick is not blabbing to the press about what your intentions are.
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Certainly not. That's the easy part.
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"NK has limited internet links so are the sites even online?"
They are at the moment.
Both of them.
Retro (Score:2)
I wonder where they're going to find people familiar with infrastructure that obsolete. Presumably there's a wise old beard in a back office somewhere, getting the last laugh on his peers for refusing to let go of the 1980s.
How do they plan on doing that? (Score:3, Funny)
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The difference between the US and NK is that the US has the resources to back up such a response. If North Korea made such an aggressive move, it would be in a very different boat and as insane as they seem to be, they realize that even their few allies are getting tired of them. The US on the other hand doesn't rely on its allies just to feed its populace during peacetime, much less during war.
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Whilst horribly under-equipped & outdated, North Korea has the largest army of foot-soldiers/infantry in the world. Adding that Seoul is also only 35km from the NK border, I wouldn't want to place any bets. If the North goes down, it'll take the South with it & flood China's already delicate border regions with a huge number of refugees.
Unless it gets taken down from the inside, I don't expect to see any changes in NK during my lifetime.
Re:This is a BAD idea (Score:4, Insightful)
Any foot soldiers trying to walk across the border would be destroyed by air support. When it comes to stopping advances and toppling a government, foot soldiers aren't really relevant.
That being said, NK doesn't even need nukes to threaten South Korea. The thousands of artillery emplacements in range of Seoul are all that are needed to destroy the city.
NK wants the nukes to fend off the US, not South Korea.
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Oh, no doubt the casualties would be catastrophic, but don't underestimate the power of sheer numbers. The Arab uprisings are a good example of its efficacy.
NK wants the nukes to fend off the US, not South Korea.
Their only influence on the US is through their threat to the South, as they lack any long range capability. The best they've managed to do was fire a chunk of metal into the lower atmosphere - that's a long way from an ICBM.
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Sheer numbers wouldn't even get past the DMZ.
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When North Korea starts putting the nukes on the launch pads, I don't think South Korea is going to sit around and debate whether they'll be offended by a cyber attack.
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When North Korea starts putting the nukes on the launch pads, I don't think South Korea is going to sit around and debate whether they'll limit themselves to a cyber attack instead of an all-out air-raid.
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Admittedly. Redundancy is good, too.
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You may want to look up how Stuxnet works... or at least read the article. It discretely changes some tiny parameters that, once used in production, will render the end product inoperable or even damage itself. To go from that to "launching against yourself" is a pretty monumental leap. Personally, I'd just make sure I commented out the "Launch Against Seoul" code - the part with the GPS coordinates embedded in it.
Only work if documents we on computer. (Score:2)
As things stand, I doubt that the NK is that advanced. It doesn't need to be. There were NO COMPUTERS when the first A-Bomb was dropped or when V2s flew.
The purpose of an atomic bomb atop a rocket is to get near enough to a target and detonate.
It does not need any sophistication to do so,
it just needs enough propellant, a crude guidance system (like a cheap GPS [use existing infrastructure,] some actuators for targeting and detonation,) air bursting at height seems to generate a big blast.
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To say there were "NO COMPUTERS" is pretty inaccurate. There were no microprocessors, yes, but there were analog computers as far back as 1872 and they were used extensively during the first World War. Modern computers were initially developed as a direct result of WWII threatening to erupt in Europe. The British Colossus was used during the war by codebreakers - ten variations of it was in use before the war was over. Over in the US, the ENIAC was created to help with the war effort - including the constru
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Feynman recounts his adventures in parallel processing with old-fashioned computers at Los Alamos in one of his books. You literally walked between machines with results that they were waiting on. The message-passing interface was people!
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GPS is controlled by the US military. If North Korea tried launching a missile that used it, surely the US would turn it off in the area.
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As things stand, I doubt that the NK is that advanced. It doesn't need to be. There were NO COMPUTERS when the first A-Bomb was dropped or when V2s flew.
That's entirely inaccurate. Colossus [wikipedia.org] was in use by Bletchley Park at the time; the German Z3 [wikipedia.org] was invented well before the first V1 missile was launched, though it was never used for that purpose; and ENIAC [wikipedia.org] was in the process of being built during the period of the Manhattan Project. In fact, one of ENIAC's first programs was a feasibility study of the hydrogen bomb.
You meant to imply that no computers were used for the guidance or development of these weapons, though that would also be debatably inaccurat [wikipedia.org]
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Can't see this working. (Score:2)
NK is not the most connected country. The launch systems almost certainly aren't networked (Even the most idiotic designer is going to want an air gap), and probably don't use the most sophisticated of computerized control systems. I wouldn't be surprised if the silo doors are operated by ladder-logic controllers. There might just be nothing to hack. The greatest vulnerability is probably communications from whereever central command is (I'm sure they have a somewhat unimpressive immitation of NORAD burried
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Iran doesn't yet have working nukes and has hardly had the best relationship with the west and stuxnet appears to have worked... One has to assume that if they are doing this
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Iran is not a technological backwater.
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Sometimes, not disguising your intentions, methodology and actions is better than whatever the actual system is. It's a basic principle of effective deterrence in a MAD situation. And as far as the two Koreas are concerned, it's still pretty close to MAD even if no nukes are used.
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This strikes me as something akin to the Independence Day ending in reverse.
So...the aliens...uh...send a nuke...via a captured P-38 from the 40s...and dock with the pentagon...and upload a virus that disables all of our ships around the world. Or something?
These type of information (Score:1)
are often hidden from the public. You don't tell what you are going to do. Did the US bragged about Stuxnet before using it? The worse thing that could happen is North will sabotage some "projects" that they have and blame it to the South.
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Million man armies are useless for conquering anything that has air superiority.
the first rule (Score:2)
The first rule about cyberwarfare is you don't talk about cyberwarfare.
The second rule about cyberwarfare is you don't talk about cyberwarfare.
Did Israel announce that it was developing Stuxnet? That would be monumentally stupid.
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First rule of Cyberwarfare (Score:2)
wow (Score:1)