Yik Yak, After Complaints From Schools, Suspends Its Service In Chicago 167
The Chicago Tribune reports that Yik Yak, a mobile app that can (among other things) be used for anonymous communications, has drawn complaints from several local schools, who are unhappy that students can use it to bully or pester others.
"'The problem, as you might imagine, is that the anonymity is empowering certain individuals to post comments about others that are hurtful, harassing and sometimes quite disturbing,' Joseph Ruggiero, head of the Upper School at Francis W. Parker School in the Lincoln Park neighborhood, wrote in an email to parents last week. ... In light of the controversy, Yik Yak's co-founder said the company was disabling the app in the Chicago area and will attempt to specifically prevent it from being used on high school or middle school grounds."
Help, I'm being harrassed on an app on my phone! (Score:5, Insightful)
If only there was some way to prevent people from harassing me on this app. I could uninstall it, or just not use it - naw we'll just pressure the company to disable it in my whole area.
Re: (Score:3)
I suppose it's just easier for them to sweep the problem under the rug rather than actually bothering to deal with it.
Re:Help, I'm being harrassed on an app on my phone (Score:4, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3)
What I don't get is that with this app there's actual evidence of the bullying that teachers can address.
Unless these messages are being sent during school hours from school property, I don't see how teachers have any responsibility in the matter. It's private messaging between people and they have their right to speech. If folks are feeling harassed or defamed, maybe the parents of the kids need to work this out or seek the appropriate legal action -- at which point I'm sure someone will bill them $50 to say "just uninstall the damn app".
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe I'm becoming an old fuddy-duddy, but I'm having trouble seeing what use this app is over a regular IM or texting session, unless you're toothing [wikipedia.org] (which wasn't even a real thing).
People don't want to talk to random strangers nowadays, they want to talk to their friends, regardless of how far away they are. That makes the question of who's around you kinda inconsequential. I thought it had alre
Re: (Score:2)
The whole point of this app is that it's location-based - it connects you to people in the immediate vicinity.
So it's like walking up to them and talking, except with a burka covering your face so that you remain anonymous? The app describes itself as a "social wall", but it doesn't seem very social.
Re:Help, I'm being harrassed on an app on my phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe that's the problem. The schools don't like evidence that bullying is going on there.
Re:Help, I'm being harrassed on an app on my phone (Score:5, Insightful)
If only there was some way to prevent people from harassing me on this app. I could uninstall it, or just not use it - naw we'll just pressure the company to disable it in my whole area.
And when the whole school is abuzz about how you supposedly raped someone behind the gym last Friday, or fucked Mrs. Fingerwood, or like to use your phone to surreptitiously record other dudes in the locker room, or that someone is planning on stabbing you during the lunch period, or whatever... ignoring the app does what for you, exactly? There's plenty of room for debate about how to deal with the issue, but what happens in the app doesn't stay confined to the app so your specific argument is bogus, +5 insightful or not.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
All those sorts of rumors were common in my high school (pre mobile phone), phones have nothing at all to do with it. And nothing ever came of the rumors - gossip was fun, but no one really took it seriously (and in my school, most of the rumors were true).
Did some precious perfect snowflake get his wittle feelers hurt? Maybe it's time to grow up. Has the new generation somehow lost the natural skepticism towards anonymous rumors? Somehow I doubt it.
Re:Help, I'm being harrassed on an app on my phone (Score:5, Insightful)
Did some precious perfect snowflake get his wittle feelers hurt? Maybe it's time to grow up. Has the new generation somehow lost the natural skepticism towards anonymous rumors? Somehow I doubt it.
Yes. And they've been teaching kids in the last 15-ish years that "thin skinned" is the only way to be. Don't stand up to bullies, don't defend yourself, let the authorities handle it for you. Oh and of course if you do stand up to defend yourself, it's all your fault automatically no matter what. Because "zero tolerance."
MOD PARENT UP (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, it's complete insanity.
We are working on raising the second generation of "learned helplessness" at this point.
Try going to a PTA meeting and watching a 40 or 50 year old parent try to talk to a 21 year old mother who was taught never to defend, never to stand up, and never to admit that good people can make terrible mistakes. She's literally incapable of common sense, and the older generation is literally incapable of reaching her.
"Zero tolerance" is killing our whole culture, one child at a time.
Re: MOD PARENT UP (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3)
More than 15; at least 35. Of course, "let the authorities handle it for you" was a lie; the authorities would ignore you, punish you, or punish both parties if you did complain to them.
Re: (Score:2)
One nice thing in my school (more than 15 years ago) was that you'd get the "takes two to fight" nonsense only if the pattern hadn't yet emerged for that particular bully. The admins at my schools weren't completely stupid, and weren't handcuffed by "zero tolerance".
I got in one fight at each new school I went to -- winning the fight was not in any way required to remove yourself from the target list for bullies -- and only once was I suspended. That case was very early in the school year.
Re: (Score:2)
You have to stand up to a bully. The "don't sue us" mentality schools have developed have turned our kids into pussies and allowing bullies to roam freely.
Back in grade school I was on the bowling team and there was this one kid there who thought it was funny to make fun of me because I was Polish. Dumb pollok, polish jokes, talking down to me, etc. It was constant. One day I had enough and I punched that little dick right in his face knocking him over. He started to cry and my mother was there that day and
Re: (Score:2)
Simply not true. Kids these days are better equipped to deal with bullying than they used to be because schools now talk openly about it and how to deal with it. In the past the biggest problem was that children had no way to deal with the problem, short of getting into fights or other kinds of escalation.
Standing up to bullies rarely works. They rely on the fact that they have power over their victim, due to physical size or having allies to back them up. It's just a fantasy that victims enjoy, imagining t
Re: (Score:2)
Standing up to bullies has been 100% effective in my life. No, revenge and passive-aggressive nonsense doesn't work at all. The first time at any new school a bully tried to intimidate me or shove me around, I started a fight right there. My track record for winning those fight was poor, but that's not important. Bullies are taking the easy path as they see it, and you just have to show you're not on that path.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
As an adult, if your neighbor makes a threat to you, do you go over to his house one afternoon and beat the shit out of him with a crowbar to "stand up for yourself"? No. You report his threats to the police.
I think most people would just sell their houses and move. If you have enough evidence to put some wacko behind bars then maybe it is worth going to the police, but otherwise they're going to show up, talk to the guy, reveal that you called them in, and then leave. It isn't like they can arrest somebody because somebody claimed that they were threatened by them.
To some extent this is why gentrification exists in the first place. People move to expensive neighborhoods because creepy people usually can't h
Re: (Score:2)
I think most people would just sell their houses and move
And this is exactly why bullying works in schools but not so much in the real world. People are unwilling to pull their kid out of the most convenient school, and schools don't want to lose students because schools are paid based on attendance.
But having empty houses is bad for the whole neighborhood, so wacko-threats-neighbor is forced to cut it out or leave.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup, for the most part most of the folks who get made fun of in school just arrange their lives in adulthood so that the folks who made fun of them aren't around any longer. They might run into each other at work, but the workplace isn't going to tolerate nonsense because it costs them money, and if the "jock manager" gives the "nerd producer" too much grief the company will probably figure out which it needs more. The bullies who make it to the executive level aren't bothered with pestering the help - th
Re: (Score:2)
they're going to show up, talk to the guy, reveal that you called them in, and then leave.
That is why it is effective. You've shown them that it is officially recorded that they made a threat. If they act on it, they'll get caught. And, you're not intimidated; further, you're going to Do The Right Thing. It certainly isn't going to make them like you. But in the US, this really IS how people usually respond to threats from neighbors. Your idea that people actually freakin' sell their home to escape threats is absurd. Most people who "own" their home have a mortgage, usually with terms that inc
Re: (Score:2)
It really depends on the nature of the bully.
If they come across as being tough but rational, then calling the police will probably have the effect you describe.
If they come across as being nuts, then calling the police might get you shot the next night. Sure, the police will know who did it, but nutcases aren't always the best appliers of logic.
I know somebody who lived near somebody who was seriously nuts, and it was really frustrating for them. They just tried to stay out of it, and capture video evide
Re: (Score:2)
Reporting threats and assaults to the authorities is standing up for yourself.
I totally agree. The "thin-skinned" response is to "just ignore" it. Which really means, do nothing at all to stop it or stand up for yourself. Just go cower in the corner when you're threatened.
Standing up for yourself by reporting it takes real courage. It takes being thick-skinned enough to know that it might get worse, before it gets better, but that you're being a part of creating positive change, and changing the bully culture.
Re: (Score:2)
When I was in college, I had a laptop stolen from me, It wasnt a cheep laptop either, it was top of the line in 2002 and cost me somewhere around 3 grand. I knew who stole it from me, I knew where it was, I had witnesses tell the cops they saw him steal it. I reported it to them and I never heard anything back, they never went to the spot where I told them it was so I eventually took things into my own hands, got my laptop back, and perhaps
Re: (Score:2)
If you report words to the police, then you despise freedom of speech.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Phones do have something to do with it - these systems allow for easier and stronger anonymity, and make it possible to spread such rumors faster and wider. They are powerful tools - and like any tool
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
The fact that rumors of rapes and assaults (that you yourself acknowledge are often true) were ignored in your school is not something to be proud of.
The weren't ignored, they were simply treated with appropriate skepticism by the students. Gossip was entertaining; not anything more. The school admins did look into anything substantive, but they also knew people like to BS and threaten as a way to blow off steam - real violence wasn't preceded by threats!
these systems allow for easier and stronger anonymity, and make it possible to spread such rumors faster and wider
Oh, what bullshit. Gossip spreads at the speed of sound anyway, and you never learn the origin.
Re: (Score:2)
The rumours weren't transmitted more or less instantly all over town, and it had to be done by voice (face-to-face), written note, or landline telephone, all three of which communication methods were much more likely to be overheard or intercepted by parents/teachers.
Re:Help, I'm being harrassed on an app on my phone (Score:5, Insightful)
gossip was fun, but no one really took it seriously
I remember taking it seriously --- as the victim of harassment and I remember others being hurt.
Did some precious perfect snowflake get his wittle feelers hurt?
This is the language of harassment --- belittling the victim --- and I have never heard it used in any other way.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Ahh, the cult of the victim. "Oooh, look at me, I'm special, I'm a victim and so should have special privileges". Fuck that noise. If you're the victim of institutional oppression, such as laws or policies (official or otherwise) that discriminate against your race, that's one thing - the system needs to change, and it will take more than you to do it. But if the only damage is "hurt feelings", then, seriously, grow up.
Yes, it hurts. Welcome to adulthood. Life is a mixed bag. If you do something produ
Re: (Score:2)
Congratulations, you people are whiny and no better than the 'for the children' crowd. Toughen up, morons.
Re: (Score:2)
no one really took it seriously (and in my school, most of the rumors were true).
So SOMEONE took them seriously. Gullible child that you were.
Re: (Score:2)
Did some precious perfect snowflake get his wittle feelers hurt?
You must be one of those sadistic psychotic narcissists I read about on slashdot!
http://science.slashdot.org/st... [slashdot.org]
Re: (Score:3)
There's nothing particularly "techy" about kids starting rumors. And removing one messaging app is certainly not going to stop bullying at schools.
It's just a symptom, with dozens of core issues that should be treated instead. From better parenting, to accountability, to a better teacher:student ratio ... plenty of ways to address the problem. Deleting an app really isn't one of them, be it from an single student or an entire school.
No escape. (Score:2)
If only there was some way to prevent people from harassing me on this app. I could uninstall it, or just not use it - naw we'll just pressure the company to disable it in my whole area.
Everyone in school sees these posts. Everyone in school talks about these posts. Uninstalling the app on your kid's phone doesn't solve the problem.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Neither does blocking the app in their area.
Actually, yes. Yes it does. Heavy-handed it may be. But the app is an anonymous way for people to communicate based on physical location instead of some sort of network ID . So banning it in a location absolutely solves the narrow problem of the app being used in this way.
Re: (Score:2)
It just introduces a much worse problem of its own, and the non-problem doesn't actually get fixed; bullying will country.
Re: (Score:2)
continue*
Re: (Score:2)
It's pretty easy to dismiss such a non-issue.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
It will be the problem of the creators when it is discovered or even alleged that drug dealers, money launderers, prisoners, gang leaders are using this systems for communication.
If you check the US federal communication laws, you'll find that any provider of a communications system must be able to provide call and communication logs upon request from law enforcement agences, failure to do so can lead to prosecution.
Re: (Score:3)
Sorry grandpa, you remembered something right, but you forgot the details. That is for telephone calls. For internet communications, you only have to provide the logs you do have, on request. You do not have to have those logs. But as we know, for example from lavabit, if you don't have logs and the law enforcement agency is high enough on the food chain, they might get a warrant that requires you to give them access to your service instead.
Goodbye Anonymous Cowards (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Goodbye Anonymous Cowards (Score:5, Interesting)
The current decline in anonyminity isn't driven by government. It's driven by corporate interests, for the sake of more efficient marketing and advertising.
Government and business interests can both oppress people, but in different ways and for different reasons. Sometimes they collude, and then we are screwed.
Re: (Score:3)
Re:Goodbye Anonymous Cowards (Score:4, Insightful)
It also makes the quality of the comments worse (trivial, inane garbage), doesn't actually fix the 'problem' (it's not even a problem to begin with), and allows for easy tracking. What a great idea.
Re: (Score:3)
A site admin dropping in a Facebook-authenticated comment system isn't doing so in order to make lots of money for Facebook in selling your data, he's doing it because he's heard that forcing a modicum of self-identification cuts down in flame wars.
Or he's a lazy slackass that thinks "everybody uses Facebook".
Re: (Score:2)
as a developer I can tell you that the main reasons that facebook-auth is used for comments are:
* Site doesn't have to require sign-up, or ask users to trust the site
* Site doesn't have to protect user data
* Social Networking checkbox is now checked
* Free advertising for your site on the facebook pages of people who post comments
* Can save money using drop-in comment system, you don't have to integrate a signup plugin and a comments plugin, or buy an integrated solution
Most of these sites would be using a c
Re: (Score:2)
Its true, I wouldn't want my name attatched to the Wings either.
Re: (Score:2)
What I'm curious about is the use-case for this sort of anonymity. In the case of slashdot or something, this is like using anonymous coward to post. Why is that even good? Here it is only good because sometimes people without accounts say something useful, sometimes even people involved in the posted stories. But in general, a slashdot user id is already as anonymous as you want it to be. Never post your name, and nobody will know it. What is the use case for an extra level of anonymity? Generally, it is t
Re: (Score:2)
What is the use case for an extra level of anonymity?
Because people don't want an account? Because they don't want random assholes to be able to locate their comments and mod them down because they disagree with them? I don't know people's exact reasons, and no one needs to give you one, either. Anonymity is a good thing in and of itself.
Generally, it is to say something offensive that you're not willing to stand up and say openly, even with your pseudonym.
You're a fuckin' nigger. Wow, so hard.
If you haven't figured it out already, usernames don't do shit.
Ob (Score:2)
Just seen on a wall at Francis W. Parker School:
Joseph Ruggero is teh faggert.
Bullies (Score:3, Informative)
Francis Parker School in Chicago is where the 1% send their kids. So, there is a substantial number of entitled little turds who have learned from their parents that bullying is one of the perks of being rich and powerful.
It does not surprise me that this has happened at that school.
I have first-hand experience there and far poorer inner city schools, and there is behavior at FP that you would never see in the inner-city school.
Re: (Score:2)
but I knew some poor kids when I was growing up who could bully with the best of them.
It extends across socioeconomic lines, and it smells like the childish rehearsal of Darwinian nature for the adult mating competition.
Re:Bullies (Score:5, Informative)
The difference is, at the inner city school, the kids have next to nothing. It's gladiator school.
The kids at Francis Parker on the other hand, have every advantage. If you sit in the coffee shop across Clark Street facing the window at 7:30am, you will see the line of Bentleys, Aston Martins, etc, dropping off little Trevor for school. And those are the less wealthy families. You can tell the really wealthy families because the children are dropped off by a non-white driver, sitting alone in the front seat (and yes, I have seen little Driving Miss Daisy caps on the drivers). They don't give little Mitt a lunchbox, they give him a platinum visa so he can pop down the street at lunchtime and eat on proper tablecloths and terrorize the wait staff. The parents treat the faculty of Francis Parker a little worse than they treat the undocumented aliens they hire to do their lawn care and nannying.
Anyone who believes there are no social classes in the United States just needs to spend an hour at Francis Parker to learn the truth.
Way to shoot the messenger (Score:4)
So someone anonymously said something. It's not like that's never been done before. It's not like that's a new issue in society. Haven't we come up with better ways to deal with this by now?
For instance, I can post anonymously right now on this very platform. How is that wrong?
If schools didn't act so stupidly they wouldn't have to be funded by corporations.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
I think facebook has not fallen so fast because it's funded by advertisers. Those advertisers still don't have any viable alternatives. It will take them jumping ship before the bubble will pop.
Re: (Score:2)
For instance, I can post anonymously right now on this very platform. How is that wrong?
At the first level, slashdot will log all the IP addresses of all submissions - that's part of the general infrastructure of discussion forums. At a second level someone can contact the maintainers if anything offensive has been written. Then at the third level, they can hire a lawyer and request the IP address of the person submitting the comment. From there they can escalate the complaint with the originating ISP, the
Re: (Score:2)
Or we could all just grow up a little bit. If our kids aren't mature enough to handle anonymous threats then they need to learn how to.
I know that if anyone were to threaten me as an AC I wouldn't go so far as to get their IP tracked. If I did anything it would probably be to laugh in their face (metaphorically speaking).
Re: (Score:2)
Tax dollars used to fund schools by a mechanism called "taxes."
Schools are stupid because we've got stupid people on school boards being elected on wedge issues. The Corporate funded schools aren't any better.
Good luck (Score:4)
Re: (Score:2)
And good luck to the hothouse flowers when they are pushed out into the real world
"My boss is bullying me! He said I'm lazy and I need to work harder."
Re: (Score:2)
Good luck eliminating every piece of bad behavior the kids can come up with.
Gee, we can't stop all murders, so why try? Derp!
That is a really pathetic straw-man. Surely you can do better than, "we can't stop everything bad so why stop anything."
Also, are you absolutely sure that not having this app at school "punishes everyone?" It might actually be a distraction to all the kids who are focused on learning at school. In fact, it might ONLY punish kids who don't care about school, even while they are there, and care more about bullying other kids. Surely the kids who are engaging in
Re: (Score:2)
Gee, we can't stop all murders, so why try?
More like, "Gee, there are literally millions of ways that kids bully each other with or without technology, so why bother blocking this one method they use when it only enables them to say mean things to one another?"
"Derp"? You're a moron for even saying that. What a piece of human garbage you are.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
A small price to pay (Score:2)
"'The problem, as you might imagine, is that the anonymity is empowering certain individuals to post comments about others that are hurtful, harassing and sometimes quite disturbing,'
I'd rather have this happen than have the police state alternative. Kids need to learn to deal with bullying on their own terms and today's PC society won't allow it. I think most of the real damage from bullying comes from politically correct policy and faculty, who make it nearly impossible for the underdog kids to hash it out with their peers without the threat of all kinds of imposed 'consequences'. It doesn't take much to set off these PC types, so the arena is quite limited indeed. No wonder kids
Re: (Score:2)
As an adult I don't have to deal with "bullying" on my own terms; if somebody manages to lie about me in a way that harms my reputation, there is a legal remedy for that.
And the business is not going to "shut down." They're going to disable the (location-based) service when the location is a school. That makes sense. Schools are full of children, who are supposed to be there to learn.
They can still use the service in a more appropriate place, such as a park, or concert, or the mall, where it actually makes
Re: (Score:2)
With your example, unless you're extremely wealthy, no, not really. Most people cannot afford to sue over every slight, though many are trying these days. Libel/slander are not the only ways adults bully each other, but if we (re)learn to let more of it to roll of our backs, we'd be better off as a society because we wouldn't feel the need to wield big brother/big sister against each other out of passive-aggressive spite.
I see no reason why being a school gives them some kind of special dispensation to di
Re: (Score:2)
If you "can't afford to sue" then that right there proves that your reputation was not harmed in the way that adults care about; financially. If your reputation was in fact harmed financially, you can probably find a lawyer to take the case on contingency.
You need it installed (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Windy City is MURDER CAPITAL of the world (Score:5, Informative)
In terms of absolute numbers, yeah, Chicago is quite high. But for the third biggest city in the nation, that's not exactly stunning. It's a purely manufactured crisis, to sell news, to increase spending on law enforcement, to justify gun control.
Re:Windy City is MURDER CAPITAL of the world (Score:4, Insightful)
But the problem with Chicago is the causes of violent crime are fairly obvious and relatively easily remedied, but local politics are so horrible the governments in almost total gridlock. Combine that with rampant corruption, that's willful and obvious and you have a real problem.
Re: (Score:2)
But the problem with Chicago is the causes of violent crime are fairly obvious and relatively easily remedied, ....
What are these obvious causes and how can they be easily remedied?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
What about all the low-murder-rate cities where guns are banned? Seems it might not actually be so obvious at all once you switch from partisan sound bites to statistics...
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
If they are not in USA, then too many other variables are at play to make a conclusive statement. USA is very much an outlier among Western countries on so many things.
If they are in USA, can you name them?
Re:Windy City is MURDER CAPITAL of the world (Score:5, Insightful)
It has certainly seemed to have - how many attempted massacres have been stopped because somebody in the audience shot the attacker before they could do much damage? I know there was at least one just in in the wake of the Colorado "batman shooting", but you never hear about them because they a couple people getting shot doesn't rank up there like a massacre.
Re: (Score:2)
Certainly having trained professionals on hand is the most effective choice - but they're not a realistic option to stop somebody interested in doing as much damage as possible - by the time they've arrived on the scene the shooter is probably out of bullets. Of course we could put professionals everywhere, at great expense. But we're already seeing a chilling trend towards a police state in this country, so I cannot in good conscience suggest such a course of action for us.
An alternative is well trained
Re:Windy City is MURDER CAPITAL of the world (Score:5, Insightful)
If I am in a place where I know someone MIGHT be packing heat, I MIGHT be less likely to shoot up the place. The argument makes sense when you look at the fact that damn near all mass murders happen in gun free zones when we are speaking about the USA
Re: (Score:2)
John Lott Jr., a former economist at Yale University Law School and noted gun rights activist, also has tracked the matter. In 2000, he published a report along with William M. Landes of the University of Chicago Law School, which analyzed mass killings from 1977-99. The study, “Multiple Victim Public Shootings,” determined that each incident in that period took place in a “gun-free zone.” In the years since, Lott has continued to track mass shooting events and local gun laws. He has published many on his blog, as well as in commentaries for Fox News, among other media outlets. And he has used his findings to update his books, “More Guns, Less Crime” and “The Bias Against Guns.” Once again, Lott’s findings show that each mass shooting, except the Giffords incident, took place in “gun-free zones.” “Killers go where victims can’t defend themselves,” Lott wrote last week in an email to The Telegraph, using this year’s Aurora movie theater shooting as an example. “Out of seven theaters showing the Batman movie premiere within 20 minutes of the suspect’s apartment, only one banned permitted concealed handguns. The suspect didn’t go to the closest nor the largest, but to the one that banned self-defense. Time after time, the story is the same.” On the whole, Lott’s colleagues – both in the media and academia – don’t dispute his findings. “I suspect that most places that mass public shootings could logically occur are ‘gun-free zones’ either determined by the government (schools) or by private businesses and institutions,” David Hemenway, director of the Injury Control Research Center at Harvard University, wrote in an email.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Eliminate the black market (legalize - it's the only way) to take the big money out of violence.
Equalize gun ownership between criminals and law-abiding citizens (if you can't realistically get rid of them, make sure anyone could be packing)
Proceed from there if your violence issue are still excessive.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
> "Most sane people would object to doing that."
Right, because alcohol prohibition worked *so* well that we decided we need to try it again with all other recreational drugs. Trying to eliminate a voluntary public health problem through the legal system is an *extremely* stupid approach, especially when the (un?)intended consequences carry such a massive price tag, both financially and in terms of social degradation.
As for guns - this country was built on the premise that citizens could be trusted to ow
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Well, lets ask a question: What proportion of gun violence is related to the drug trade? I would guess a rather high percentage, especially if you include little punks that get a gun to defend themselves while on their less-than-minimum-wage drug-dealing job, and then like to wave it around whenever they get into a pissing competition. That's a recipe for unpleasantness.
And that percentage virtually disappears if you eliminate the black market. Sure, it may take a while - punks may be attached to their
Re: (Score:2)
I'd like to see a citation for concealed carry reducing crime. I'm not saying that skeptically, I just haven't seen any studies on it because I haven't looked.
My main point
Re: (Score:2)
Name one instance, just one, where prohibition succeeded. Now list all the other cases you thought of where it failed. We can't even keep drugs out of prisons, how the %$#@! do we imagine we can keep them off the streets?
I'm afraid I can't think of a specific citation for the concealed carry thing, but I have seen several studies across multiple demographics, and it appears to be a fairly consistent pattern: Violent crime falls when concealed-carry is passed, and climbs where it is revoked. And it makes
Re: (Score:2)
When the bugs coming, nuking it from orbit is about the only thing you can do.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
If they're waiting around skulking behind corners waiting until nobody is looking, you can spot them "up to no good" before they even post it. And if they don't skulk around, they won't be anonymous. So, no, it is not actually the same thing at all.
Slippery slopes are always lies. In the real world, you're not constantly clinging to the side of a cliff where if you move an inch in either direction, you slide all the way to the most extreme possible position, like banning chalk.
And if the message is offensiv
Re: Sharpie (Score:2)