Two Years of Data On What Military Equipment the Pentagon Gave To Local Police 264
v3rgEz writes: Wondering how the St. Louis County Police ended up armed with surplus military gear, and what equipment other departments have? A FOIA request at MuckRock has turned up every item given to local law enforcement under the Pentagon's 1022 program, the mechanism by which local law enforcement can apply for surplus or used military gear.
No (Score:4, Insightful)
Military surplus doesn't kill people, cops kill people....
Too much surplus (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too much surplus (Score:5, Insightful)
If we have this much surplus, clearly we're buying too much. I know that if I find myself giving away cans of green beans, I make sure I don't buy a whole pallet the next time I'm at Costco.
Perhaps, but unlike the military you don't have some Senator from a state with a lot of green bean farms and canning plants telling you that you must purchase pallets of green beans regardless of whether you want or need them.
Re:Real Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Real Problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Actually many (not all) of the policemen and policewomen in the U.S. are ex military.
That in itself can be a problem. Take a person who has been trained to shoot first and ask questions later and then make them into civilian law enforcement.
What could possibly go wrong?
Only allowed to have civilian firearms ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Too much surplus (Score:5, Insightful)
We just finished with two useless wars.
Those wars were NOT useless. They generated enough ethnic hatred, extremism, and anti-Americanism to ensure generous defense budgets for decades to come. From the point of view of the MIC [wikipedia.org], these wars were a big success.
Re:Too much surplus (Score:5, Insightful)
What you have now is something wildly out of control, where Law Enforcement officers enforce contempt of cop laws by brutalising them or publicly executing them on the spot. What change then start by publicly banning and legislating against the term 'Law Enforcement' because that term direct implies the role of police, judge, jury, execution and is in fact contrary to constitutional laws and is a gross and huge over reach.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Now police's only tool are military-grade weapons, intended to kill.
And sometimes the situation changes how people is, like in this Standford prison experiment [wikipedia.org]
Add to that how police cover up miscarriages [huffingtonpost.com] and that you can't [techdirt.com] film [huffingtonpost.com] the police [rawstory.com], is not just who watches the watchers, but who watches the watchers that have military-grade weapons in the streets and are abusing of them.
Re:College and school police involved (Score:5, Insightful)
Militiarization of police... (Score:5, Insightful)
All those police snipers/SWAT teams pointing laser weapons at protestors...one mistake by an adrenaline junkie will happen and you will get FPS action against your own citizens broadcast live around the world.
The superheroes, the best and brightest who planned putting military gear into the hands of police should be sent to GITMO.
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not really the weapons that make the police act this way, it's the lack of accountability.
Re:No (Score:3, Insightful)
When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Now police's only tool are military-grade weapons, intended to kill.
Really? What makes you think that? The additional weapons are available as additional contingency weapons, not as a solitary replacement for all tools, weapons, technology, and methods that they used before.
You also overlook that police departments started substituting rifles for shotguns long ago due do demonstrated need, and the experience of being outgunned.
National Geographic Situation Critical Hollywood Shootout [youtube.com]
Re:No (Score:4, Insightful)
I think the point is that when the police are shooting people in great numbers -- I don't think the US has a peer in that dept -- then it might not be a great idea to give them even more destructive weaponry. Sure it would be "contingency" equipment when anyone asks, but sooner or later it'll be standard issue.
Remember those billions (!) of rounds of ammo that DHS bought?
In combination with the, shall we say, questionable record of accountability of police actions, tooling up to this extent seems like a disaster waiting to happen.
Re:Too much surplus (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't you think the inability to negotiate a status of forces agreement that gave US soldiers immunity from Iraqi law had something to do with it? Should we have forced ourselves on them and violated their sovereignty?
Re:Too much surplus (Score:5, Insightful)
US Defense budgets and military personnel strength are in steep decline and will be for years to come due to sequestration and other cuts.
I assume you mean the 2013 cuts -- those have been matched, basically dollar for dollar, by increasing the "temporary" budget for Afghanistan. US military spending remains outrageous, at about the level of the rest of the world put together.
The US was attacked on 9/11 because of existing religious extremism and anti-Americanism, not the other way around, the US didn't cause it.
Fundamentalism is a part of it, yes, but would never amount to anything like what we've seen were it not for widespread anti-US sentiments stemming from more pragmatic reasons, such as US foreign policy for the last, oh, seven decades. 911 was a scandalous crime, no doubt about it, but to state that it is completely unrelated to your own actions is patently false.
It is baffling how you could get such simple questions so wrong. Substituting slogans for facts and thinking?
Coming from someone who apparently still believes the Iraq war had anything to do with 911 other than rhetoric, and somehow still manages to delude himself that anti-American sentiment somehow thrives in complete isolation of its international posturing -- yeah, baffling is what that is.
Re:Militiarization of police... (Score:5, Insightful)
Not really. The actual problem is the overuse and careless use of SWAT teams to serve mundane warrants.
It's not "overuse", it's literally 99% of what they do. Look up the stats that Maryland released after they passed a law mandating collection and public release of statistics on SWAT use. At this point we might as well conclude it's what those teams are created for.
Will you be among the best and brightest serving arrest warrants in barricaded drug houses to heavily armed drug dealers?
Can you give a single example of such a thing? This is often bandied around as a hypothetical scenario for why you need SWAT, but how often does it actually happens, if at all?
In other words, nothing has changed.
The things that changed, started to change in late 70s, and the militarization was mostly already completed under Reagan. Since then, not much has changed, indeed - it's just a slow but steady encroachment.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
Not a Real Problem (Score:4, Insightful)
Too many idiots watching fucking Rambo movies and thinking it's real.
Re:No (Score:5, Insightful)
It is not illegal for a "drug addict and a pimp" to be engaged in some sort of dispute.